"U.S. officials sought more security before Libya attack: lawmakers"

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Posted 10/2/2012 by *Jenny* in NSBR Board
 

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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:55:12 PM
U.S. officials sought more security before Libya attack: lawmakers
By Susan Cornwell and Tabassum Zakaria | Reuters 1 hr 14 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials in Washington denied repeated requests from Americans in Libya for more security at the U.S. mission in Benghazi before last month's attack that killed four Americans there, two Republican lawmakers said on Tuesday.

U.S. Representatives Darrell Issa and Jason Chaffetz wrote a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demanding details of the requests for more security - which they said were made amid numerous attacks on Westerners in Libya in recent months.

They said the House of Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee will hold an October 10 hearing on the security situation leading up to the Benghazi attack on September 11.

Clinton responded later on Tuesday with a letter to the lawmakers saying the State Department would collaborate with the committee.

Issa heads the panel and Chaffetz oversees its subcommittee on national security, homeland defense, and foreign operations.

"Multiple U.S. federal government officials have confirmed to the committee that, prior to the September 11 attack, the U.S. mission in Libya made repeated requests for increased security in Benghazi," Issa and Chaffetz wrote.

"The mission in Libya, however, was denied these resources by officials in Washington," the Republican lawmakers said. Their letter did not include details of the reported requests.

"I appreciate that you and your committee are deeply interested in finding out what happened leading up to and during the attacks in Benghazi, and are looking for ways to prevent it from happening again," Clinton said in her letter. "I share that commitment."

She did not address any of the lawmakers' claims in her response.

Clinton said the State Department had named an "accountability review board" to investigate the Benghazi attack, headed by retired U.S. diplomat Thomas Pickering.

She said the panel would share its findings with lawmakers and urged them to hold off on drawing conclusions until they had seen the State Department's report.

She said the board would start its work this week and other members would include Michael Mullen, former chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Separately, four U.S. officials have told Reuters they were aware that in the months before the Benghazi attack, some U.S. personnel in Libya had sent complaints to the State Department expressing concern about security at U.S. diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, particularly the compound where Ambassador Christopher Stevens was killed.

Two of those officials said their understanding was that the department did not act on the complaints before the attack in Benghazi.

'DELIBERATE AND ORGANIZED'

Debate over whether the Obama administration was caught unprepared by an assault by militant groups has become U.S. election-year fodder.

Republicans have criticized initial statements by administration officials, including U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice, who suggested the attacks were precipitated by anger over an anti-Muslim online video.

Last Friday the top U.S. intelligence authority declared it believed this was a "deliberate and organized terrorist attack."

Stevens died of smoke inhalation when he was trapped alone inside the burning building in Benghazi, Libya's second city and the seat of last year's February 17 revolt against Muammar Gaddafi.

Another diplomat, Sean Smith, also died at the compound. Two U.S. security personnel were killed later when another U.S. diplomatic compound to which some personnel retreated came under mortar attack.

Issa and Chaffetz said the violence was the "latest in a long line of attacks on Western diplomats and officials in Libya in the months leading up to" the assault.

Unarmed Libyan guards employed at the U.S. Benghazi mission were warned by their family members to quit their jobs in the weeks before the assault, "because there were rumors in the community of an impending attack," they said.

Back in April, two Libyans who had been fired from a contractor providing unarmed security for the Benghazi mission threw a small homemade bomb over the mission's fence, the letter said. No one was hurt and the suspects were arrested but not prosecuted.

Stevens had also faced threats in Tripoli, according to the letter.

It said he often took an early-morning run around the Libyan capital with his security detail, but that in June, "a posting on a pro-Gaddafi Facebook page trumpeted these runs and directed a threat against Ambassador Stevens along with a stock photo of him."

Stevens stopped the runs for about a week, but then resumed them, the letter added.

(Additional reporting by Arshad Mohammed; Editing by Warren Strobel and Xavier Briand)

Link



- Jenny


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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:43:03 PM
*Jenny* I didn't know it was so easy to post a "thought provoking" thread. Just provide a link to an article... Sheesh, I guess I'll give it a whirl


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*Jenny*
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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:45:34 PM
You're a lunatic, pepea


- Jenny


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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:48:34 PM
It dropped like a lead balloon because the left doesn't know what to say. How do you defend it? It's much easier to ignore, not post a reply and let it fall off page 1 and hope it's not brought up for discussion.


- Jenny


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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:52:47 PM
It's heartbreaking and infuriating.

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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:59:41 PM

Skybar posted this very same thing earlier in the day
Just wanted to point out that when Skybar posted it earlier, there was no story posted...no link.

Smooches


- Jenny


Kim M.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 9:29:36 PM

Right-wing peas are just trying to make Obama look bad.


At this point, Liz, this administration is doing a pretty good job of that themselves. They don't need anyone, right wing or otherwise, to do it for them.


Kim

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Posted: 10/2/2012 9:41:22 PM
Two major stories in one day and the left is avoiding the threads like the plague.

Security fail in Libya.
Border agent killed.

If these had happened under Bush's administration, we'd be on page 36.

******************

And do we KNOW that BM is Liz? Because I don't think so. BM is as mean and nasty as Liz, but somewhat more erudite in my opinion. Liz mostly mocked without supplying any real discussion information. I never got the impression that she was very well informed. At least BM seems to actually read the news and makes an effort to add to a thread. I could be wrong, but I just don't think she's Liz.


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Posted: 10/2/2012 9:55:35 PM
Elise - it'll be interesting to see how these important stories are treated during tomorrow night's debate.



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Posted: 10/2/2012 10:53:04 PM
I don't think we'll hear either of these topics being discussed tomorrow night. My understanding is that tomorrow 's topic is the economy. Another epic fail for Obama. Romney should be a strong debater on this subject as there is much to be critical of and no defense for.


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Kim M.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 11:02:48 PM
Elise, I'm not 100% positive. She's never denied it.

I agree that the silence is deafening on these two subjects. Not only by some of the Peas that are quick to jump on most threads, but also by the media. I saw more of Biden on the national news than I did of Libya. I saw more about the anchor in WI than I did about the murder of a border patrol agent. Perhaps if they don't report it, it never happened?

They won't touch either of these subjects tomorrow as they are supposed to be debating on the economy. By the time they get to immigration and foreign policy debates, I'm sure the Democrats will hoping this has been swept under the rug.


Kim

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Posted: 10/2/2012 11:44:33 PM
I don't care if Beautiful Morning is Liz or not. Makes no difference to me.

I would like her to realize that this is important and not something to laugh about, but I expect that will come with time.


Beautiful Morning, you're right and wrong at the same time. Yes, it's important to keep these threads on this board because this is so much more important than the stupid threads that have been on this board about irrelevant things about Romney - like his tan. So yes, part of this is definitely about the nearness of the election.

(A thread about a Romney/Ryan economic plan is relevant.)

But what I'd like you to realize is that this is history repeating itself. We've been in a similar position before where our embassies were attacked. When Al Qaeda was able to co-ordinate an attack in two different countries at the same time, it was a big goal accomplished for them, and when the last ambassador was killed, it was under President Carter.

Obama's policies have some major flaws in their fundamentals that are making us very weak and vulnerable.

Is he going to fix those flaws, or is he going to pretend they aren't there?

Since Ambassador Stevens and the other men with him were killed, President Obama is not giving any indication that he is going to re-evaluate his understanding of the troubles in the Middle East. He has put a priority on other things - like campaigning. One example: It is the president's job to meet with other Heads of State. Obama delegated this to Hillary Clinton.


That's a problem, no matter who the president is.





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Kim M.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 12:53:28 AM

They won't touch either of these subjects tomorrow as they are supposed to be debating on the economy. By the time they get to immigration and foreign policy debates, I'm sure the Democrats will hoping this has been swept under the rug.


Sorry, need to correct myself. Tomorrow's debate is Domestic Policy, not specifically the economy.

In a first, moderator Jim Lehrer has already given advance notice of the broad topics he plans to cover: three questions on the economy, one on health care, one on governing, and one on the role of government.


I'd guess there's a good possibility of Dream Act coming up, but probably nothing on illegal immigration.

With Foreign Policy, in the Town Hall (the next debate), we may hear something about Libya and/or Border Control. It will cover both Domestic and Foreign policy.


Kim

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Posted: 10/3/2012 4:04:48 AM

You're a lunatic, pepea


Now, now, no name calling.

In response to this thread. This could have happened under any President's Administration. Posting things that have gone wrong with the Obama Administration does not negate from the fact that he is, in my opinion, a President who is trying to do what he said he would. It's very easy to sit on this side of the aisle and throw the blame card out and be critical. It's another matter when you take into consideration that President Obama is doing the best job that he can and that each and every mistake made has to affect him on a very deep level, as I'm sure is the case in any President. Jenny pat yourself on the back for keeping track of the mistakes. I'm behind my President 100%.


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Posted: 10/3/2012 5:39:08 AM

Two major stories in one day and the left is avoiding the threads like the plague.

Security fail in Libya.
Border agent killed.

If these had happened under Bush's administration, we'd be on page 36.





I'm not avoiding it. The attack in Libya is being investigated-as it should be. I want answers, too. Some planning is going on to identify and deal with the attackers-and I hope that it's sooner rather than later.

As far as the death of that border agent;it is tragic. It is being investigated by the Border Patrol and the FBI. Hopefully they will come up with some answers, though if the attackers escaped into Mexico... No one seems to know how to stop drug smuggling and human trafficking. But somehow, somewhere, someone in the government-state or federal-needs to figure out that we are not doing enough. This is the sort of thing that I think that we need to deal with instead of intervening in the affairs of others-when there is not a compelling national interest.

Anyhow, my deepest sympathies go out to the agent's family. I am sick about this.

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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:24:55 AM
Thanks for posting this Jenny. It is an important update to a serious situation and the American public has a right to know and to debate and decide if the current administration should be held accountable.

The usual posters will make personal attacks instead of posting an opposing point of view.



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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:27:30 AM

The attack in Libya is being investigated-as it should be. I want answers, too. Some planning is going on to identify and deal with the attackers-and I hope that it's sooner rather than later.


John Kerry, Senate Foreign Relations chair asked for a full report to be made to the Senate when it is back in session - *AFTER* the election.



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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:41:01 AM

This could have happened under any President's Administration. Posting things that have gone wrong with the Obama Administration does not negate from the fact that he is, in my opinion, a President who is trying to do what he said he would. It's very easy to sit on this side of the aisle and throw the blame card out and be critical. It's another matter when you take into consideration that President Obama is doing the best job that he can and that each and every mistake made has to affect him on a very deep level, as I'm sure is the case in any President.


Attacks do happen under different presidents. In that regard, it could have happened to someone else.

Other presidents have had different understandings of our position in the world with a completely different importance on our military defensive strength than this president does.

It is not a characteristic of many who have run or been president to fly to Vegas the day an ambassador was slaughtered in a ridiculously underprotected embassy/counsulate after having been warned by those at the consulate, by the terrorists, and by the use of simple common sense when a major attack could happen. Nor is it a characteristic of those others to put out such a blatant, confused and obvious obfuscation of the truth of how and why the attack happened. Nor is it a characteristic of these others to treat our State Department allies so indifferently, while strongly supporting those who aren't.


Is this the best Obama can do? I tend to agree with you. I think it is. It's not enough. It's not good enough to secure our country at this time.

Tick tock. Those two clicks just cost the US taxpayers about $45,000.






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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:43:57 AM
I am going to with hold judgement until the investigations are complete and the fact are released. It is very possible that extra security was sought, however, at this point it is all hearsay. (two Republican lawmakers said on Tuesday) and "(Multiple U.S. federal government officials have confirmed to the committee that, prior to the September 11 attack, the U.S. mission in Libya made repeated requests for increased security in Benghazi," Issa and Chaffetz wrote.) This could be fact or it could be political. We all know how honest politicians are, especially in election year. If extra security was requested, and it was turned down, why was it turned down? That is something that Clinton will have to answer if it turns out to be true. She is the one that is running the State Dept. I am not a big fan of H. Clinton, however, I can't see her turning down such a request.

I do believe that the Libyan attack was a pre-planned terrorist attack, and I think that once that investigation is over, the facts will be officially released to the public. While we think that we have the right to be updated instantly, and we all feel sure that the WH knows that is what happened, I understand the need for them to wait until the investigation is over and all of the facts are in. That takes time.


Skybar posted this very same thing earlier in the day and the thread dropped like a lead balloon.
I think that is because many Peas, including Republicans, have Skybar on ignore, or they read her post and refuse to respond to them.




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AncestralPea

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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:48:13 AM

I think that is because many Peas, including Republicans, have Skybar on ignore, or they read her post and refuse to respond to them.


+1

But it is interesting to note the person who posted the comment -


Skybar posted this very same thing earlier in the day and the thread dropped like a lead balloon. Right-wing peas are just trying to make Obama look bad.*YAWN*


has also posted time and time again, that she has Skybar on ignore




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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:51:11 AM

Is this the best Obama can do? I tend to agree with you. I think it is. It's not enough. It's not good enough to secure our country at this time.

Yep. BO needs to go.



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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:53:32 AM

Is this the best Obama can do? I tend to agree with you. I think it is. It's not enough. It's not good enough to secure our country at this time.

I agree that sadly, this is the best that President Obama can do. Our diplomats deserve more. Our border patrol agents deserve more. Our nation deserves more.

Personally, I think this is going to fall on Hillary and I think that's a shame. She's working her ass off because Obama is too busy being eye candy on daytime television.


- Jenny


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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:55:57 AM

Personally, I think this is going to fall on Hillary and I think that's a shame. She's working her ass off because Obama is too busy being eye candy on daytime television.


I agree, I think if push comes to shove, Hillary Clinton is going to get thrown under the bus.



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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:57:01 AM

If extra security was requested, and it was turned down, why was it turned down?
It's all political. How else could Obama declare victory against Al Queda, terrorism, and our wonderful new friends in the Middle East if we're increasing security due to threats?

As far as Skybar...when she posted...she had no story. Even though I too had heard what she heard, I waited until it was a real news story (and not only reported on Fox...too bad it took almost all day) I'd rather comment on stories that can be linked vs. opinions...whether I agree with that person or not.


- Jenny


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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:03:06 AM

If extra security was requested, and it was turned down, why was it turned down? That is something that Clinton will have to answer if it turns out to be true. She is the one that is running the State Dept. I am not a big fan of H. Clinton, however, I can't see her turning down such a request.



Yes, Hillary Clinton will have to answer for this no matter who signed the waiver required to override the State Department's own required level of security for this consulate before the Ambassador even set foot there.

That there was a request for more security was in reality then a request for the minimum required by the State Department itself.

No. There's no getting around it. This is a wormhole into the very core of this administration and it is revealing rot. We are even more unhealthy than we have been led to believe.








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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:07:09 AM

While we think that we have the right to be updated instantly, and we all feel sure that the WH knows that is what happened, I understand the need for them to wait until the investigation is over and all of the facts are in. That takes time.



Yes, that would have made good sense.

That's exactly what they did.not.do, though.

A Youtube video started this!

Nope. Every way you turn this over, it's bad bad bad policy through and through.






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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:09:35 AM
I'll wait until all the information is known before I worry about rotting wormholes. I don't operate from the standpoint that Secretary of State Clinton is an idiot or that our State Department is filled with bumbling buffoons nor that our entire foreign policy is failed so since I'm looking at this from an entirely different worldview than most conservatives, I'll continue to focus my outrage against the Muslim extremists who murdered our ambassador and wait for the facts as to the rest.



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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:22:43 AM

Stevens died of smoke inhalation when he was trapped alone inside the burning building in Benghazi, Libya's second city and the seat of last year's February 17 revolt against Muammar Gaddafi.


It said he often took an early-morning run around the Libyan capital with his security detail, but that in June, "a posting on a pro-Gaddafi Facebook page trumpeted these runs and directed a threat against Ambassador Stevens along with a stock photo of him."




Libyans tried to rescue Ambassador Chris Stevens, cheering "God is great" and rushing him to a hospital after they discovered him still clinging to life inside the U.S. Consulate, according to witnesses and a new video that emerged Monday from last week's attack in the city of Benghazi.

The group of Libyans had stumbled across Stevens' seemingly lifeless form inside a dark room and didn't know who he was, only that he was a foreigner, the man who shot the video and two other witnesses told The Associated Press.

The account underlines the confusion that reigned during the assault by protesters and heavily armed gunmen that overwhelmed the consulate in Benghazi last Tuesday night, killing four Americans, including Stevens, who died from smoke inhalation soon after he was found. U.S. officials are still trying to piece together how the top American diplomat in Libya got separated from others as staffers were evacuated, suffocating in what is believed to be a consulate safe-room.

The Libyans who found him expressed frustration that there was no ambulance and no first aid on hand, leaving him to be slung over a man's shoulder to be carried to a car.

"There was not a single ambulance to carry him. Maybe he was handled the wrong way," said Fahd al-Bakoush, a freelance videographer who shot the footage. "They took him to a private car."






Soon after the attack, Libyan civilians roamed freely around the trashed consulate, its walls blacked and furniture burned. Among them were the videographer al-Bakoush, and a photographer and art student he often works with.

They heard a panicked shout, "I stepped over a dead man," and rushed to see what was going on, al-Bakoush said. The body had been found inside a dark room with a locked door accessible only by a window. A group of men pulled him out and realized he was a foreigner and still alive.

He was breathing and his eyelids flickered, al-Bakoush said. "He was alive," he said. "No doubt. His face was blackened and he was like a paralyzed person."

Video taken by al-Bakoush and posted on YouTube shows Stevens being carried out of the room through a window with a raised shutter. "Bring him out, man," someone shouts. "Out of the way, out of the way!"

"Alive, Alive!" come other shouts, then a cheer of "God is great."

The next scene shows Stevens lying on a tile floor, with one man touching his neck to check his pulse. Al-Bakoush said that after that scene, they put Stevens in a private car to rush to the hospital.

The video has been authenticated since Stevens' face is clearly visible and he is wearing the same white t-shirt seen in authenticated photos of him being carried away on another man's shoulders, presumably moments later. The photographer and student who were with al-Bakoush at the scene gave the same account as he did.

"We were happy to see him alive. The youths tried to rescue him. But there was no security, no ambulances, nothing to help," said Ahmed Shams, the 22-year-old arts student.

When they entered the consulate, "there was no one around. There was no fire fighters, no ambulances, no relief," said the photographer, Abdel-Qader Fadl.

The accounts of all three witnesses mesh with that of the doctor who treated Stevens that night.

Dr. Ziad Abu Zeid told The Associated Press last week that Stevens was nearly lifeless when he was brought by Libyans, with no other Americans around, to the Benghazi hospital where he worked. He said Stevens had severe asphyxia from the smoke and that he tried for 90 minutes to resuscitate him with no success. Only later did security officials confirm it was Stevens.

Fadl said he drove to the hospital behind the car carrying Stevens.

During the assault, more than 30 U.S. staffers were evacuated from the consulate. So far, U.S. officials have not announced the results of an investigation into the circumstances of the four Americans' deaths.

They have said preliminary reports said that amid the evacuation, Stevens and foreign service officer Sean Smith were inside the consulate with a regional security officer. They got separated in the smoke. The security officer and others went back in to try to find the two of them and found Smith dead. They pulled him out but flames and gunfire forced them to flee before they could find Stevens.

Al-Bakoush and his colleagues said that once they learned his identity, they were stunned Stevens had been alone.

"I've never seen incompetence and negligence like this, from the two sides, the Americans and the Libyans," he said. "You can sacrifice everyone but rescue the ambassador. He is the ambassador for God's sake."

video finding Stevens


CNN's video of the video finding Stevens


That's a LOT of people that could have been caught in the attacks of the consulate and the safe house!










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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:29:59 AM

I don't operate from the standpoint that Secretary of State Clinton is an idiot or that our State Department is filled with bumbling buffoons...


Don't mistake her responsiblity to answer for this as her being an idiot or some buffoonery on the part of the State Department.

She will have to answer because she is the Secretary of State. The waivers for security had to be signed off by someone of very high authority. It could have been her. It could have been someone else.

It is the President who ultimately is responsible for these decisions.

As Truman said - "The buck stops here."



And FWIW, the waiver itself isn't the heart of the disconnect here.

The idea that the area was safe enough to go into with less than the required security is the failure of understanding that is at the heart. This is the hole running throughout Obama's foreign policy.

How deep is that hole? How far does it run? IDK.







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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:42:20 AM
I do not in any way think Hillary Clinton is an idiot.


- Jenny


lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:48:22 AM

It said he often took an early-morning run around the Libyan capital with his security detail, but that in June, "a posting on a pro-Gaddafi Facebook page trumpeted these runs and directed a threat against Ambassador Stevens along with a stock photo of him."
I remember reading that. According to the article, Stevens stopped his run after this came out and then he resumed the run a week later. Did he feel the threat was no longer valid? Did he have increased security with him during the run? Did he change his run time or location of the run? A week was not a very long time to hold off on his routine with that kind of threat out there. At least, I don't feel that it was. LINK




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Darcy_Collins
PeaFixture

PeaNut 514,615
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Posted: 10/3/2012 10:45:24 AM

I agree, I think if push comes to shove, Hillary Clinton is going to get thrown under the bus.


I think the only reason she doesn't have tread marks on her is that the campaign can't risk pissing off Bill - there's no telling what he'll say if they throw Hillary under the bus.

For the record - I like Hillary - I campaigned for Hillary. I truly hope that the full story of the security decisions are made public. If she screwed up, she should be held accountable. But I think the idea of trying to bury the story until after the election as "we're investigating" is bullshit.

scrappammie
PeaAddict

PeaNut 208,055
June 2005
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Posted: 10/3/2012 10:50:52 AM

I'll wait until all the information is known before I worry about rotting wormholes. I don't operate from the standpoint that Secretary of State Clinton is an idiot or that our State Department is filled with bumbling buffoons nor that our entire foreign policy is failed so since I'm looking at this from an entirely different worldview than most conservatives, I'll continue to focus my outrage against the Muslim extremists who murdered our ambassador and wait for the facts as to the rest.


I agree. I'm also not sure that we can truly assess whether decisions for staffing, routines, and security were inappropriate after the fact. No matter how you parse the information available prior to an attack, the knowledge that an attack occurred skews any data for review. You can't unring a bell.

What's the old adage about finger-pointing? One pointed at the perceived problem, but four still facing inward?




Sue_Pea
Old Pea Coven member wannabe

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April 2002
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Posted: 10/3/2012 11:26:34 AM

But I think the idea of trying to bury the story until after the election as "we're investigating" is bullshit.



I believe that they are investigating-or trying to. I read that the FBI hasn't been allowed to go to Benghazi yet, and are still in Tripoli while their role is negotiated with the Libyan govt. I'm not sure what the hold-up is.

Skybar
Perfect Peaing

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January 2005
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Posted: 10/3/2012 12:59:44 PM

It dropped like a lead balloon because the left doesn't know what to say. How do you defend it? It's much easier to ignore, not post a reply and let it fall off page 1 and hope it's not brought up for discussion.

yep.


he is, in my opinion, a President who is trying to do what he said he would.

he somewhat is - he's doing his best to fundamentally change our country.


If extra security was requested, and it was turned down, why was it turned down?

that's out there - at least one version of it... do some googling around

I figure this admin will put out a few versions of it...


Skybar posted this very same thing earlier in the day and the thread dropped like a lead balloon.

I think that is because many Peas, including Republicans, have Skybar on ignore, or they read her post and refuse to respond to them.

or pretend they do. They knew the story was out there - a hot topic and major screw up by this admin.
on the Libya one - I heard about it on Fox (surprised? you wouldn't hear it on the others). I think it came on as 'breaking news' so I figured there wasn't much out there on it yet and those who wanted more on it would google it. I did post a link for the border patrol shootings.

The last few days had lots of bad news for this admin -
Libya
the border
Biden
the VA scandal
buying the prison in IL

AND telling those who might have to lay off gov contractors NOT to send out the notices they are legally required to send. He is telling them to break the law.

This admin also telling them that IF they are fined and / or have legal costs from it, they will pay them (with taxpayer $s of course). great stewardship of our money.

They could start a major attack and hijack the thread. They've done that a number of times - they sure do 'find' my threads when they want to attack, don't they? probably honing their skills for a job with this admin.

It also shows where their priorities are.


But it is interesting to note the person who posted the comment -

Skybar posted this very same thing earlier in the day and the thread dropped like a lead balloon. Right-wing peas are just trying to make Obama look bad.*YAWN*




has also posted time and time again, that she has Skybar on ignore

same one who recently asked a question on a thread and made comments because I didn't answer her - right?

I think she even mentioned that she knew I'd been back on that thread - what she's missing is that I often DO come back to a thread but don't 'pick up' where I left off on it. I might just click on the most current page to see what's up on it. On those many page threads I seldom backtrack to read everything posted since I last read or posted.





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On June 28, 1787, as Governor of Pennsylvania, Benjamin Franklin hosted the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, where he moved:

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Franklin wrote April 17, 1787:

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Benjamin Franklin wrote his epitaph:

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