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scrappinghappy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
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 |  Posted: 11/15/2012 9:37:47 AM
Can you imagine the outcry!!!!
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/15/15182123-israel-three-civilians-killed-by-rockets-fired-from-gaza-as-violence-escalates?lite
This happened in Israel a few minutes ago.
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news and world headlines? What makes it OK for one nation to fire on another and not even be called to task and for the nation that's being fired upon to be criticized, yes CRITICIZED, for not holding back, for actually fighting back and attempting to rout out terror cells. |
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SueSume
AncestralPea
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 9:48:26 AM
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news
Sadly, because it's nothing "new"??  |
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Maizie
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 9:49:52 AM
That small region breaks my heart  |
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SuzastampinCTMH
PeaFixture
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July 2004
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 9:50:13 AM
It was one of the first stories this morning on our local and national news. |
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jennyap
AncestralPea
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 10:01:29 AM
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news and world headlines?
It's the main story on NBC News, BBC News, and a front page story on CNN (websites). I'd say they are.
And I don't know what your politicians are saying but our Foreign Secretary has said "I utterly condemn rocket attacks from Gaza into southern Israel by Hamas and other armed groups."
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PeaCeaRyder
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 10:06:01 AM
I saw something like this on the news last night. From what I remember, Syria had sent several missiles into Israel (sometime around Sunday/Monday) and Israel retaliated. But this is the first I heard of the latest incident. |
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tlc0963
PeaAddict
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November 2002
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 12:06:03 PM
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sadly, because it's nothing "new"??
It IS MORE THAN THIS; Our current / re-elected administration is no a (serious) friend of Israel's and based on their leadership, this nation is no longer a (serious) friend of Israel's. To Israel's peril and I believe ultimately ours as well. '
Some 'lip service' is played to the fact that we are ally's of Israel, but really, this administration has done all but ignore our friends outright. |
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jillt1405
PeaNut
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 1:24:35 PM
Its headline news on the BBC and SKY and has been all day. |
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Runner5
Pea All You Can Pea!
PeaNut 36,843
April 2002
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 1:26:27 PM
I've been following this on the internet. I'm glad you started this thread. |
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Annabella
Leads a Charmed Life
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 1:31:51 PM
Our current / re-elected administration is no a (serious) friend of Israel's and based on their leadership, this nation is no longer a (serious) friend of Israel's
Obama just recently gave Israel a ridiculous amount of money so they could continue to attack Palestine. There is no outcry because you get what you put out. If Israel wants peace they need to act like it. |
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GrinningCat
Proudly Canadian
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July 2002
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 1:38:55 PM
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news and world headlines?
Where are you not seeing it? Every single outlet I've been to today is either leading their news or it's the second or third story (due to breaking local news).
I'm not understanding your assertion that it's not being covered or condemned.
All three of our federal parties have made statements:
Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird:
"We fundamentally believe that Israel has the right to defend itself and its citizens from terrorist threats.
Far too often, the Jewish people find themselves on the front lines in the struggle against terrorism, the great struggle of our generation. Just last weekend, more than 100 rockets rained down on civilians in southern Israel from positions in the Gaza Strip.
Canada condemns the terrorist group Hamas and stands with Israel as it deals with regional threats to peace and security."
Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae:
"On behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada, I am calling on those exercising control over political and military events in Gaza to halt all rocket attacks against Israel. The terrorist group Hamas must take responsibility for these acts of violence out of Gaza and order them to stop.
We recognize Israel's right to defend its population, and we also urge that parties involved take all possible steps to protect civilian life and work to implement a ceasefire.
The Middle East is at a critical and difficult moment, and every possible step must be taken to avoid a wider conflict."
Thomas Mulcair, leader of the opposition:
"New Democrats are very concerned by the recent escalation of tensions in Gaza and Israel. We call on all sides to exercise restraint and respect international humanitarian law obligations to protect civilians at all times. Escalation would be dangerous and detrimental to prospects for long-term peace and stability in the region.
We are monitoring the situation closely and continue to call on the Canadian government to pursue a balanced and constructive approach in the Middle East."
I've heard statements from nations around the globe. I don't think people are ignoring this crisis. At all. | |
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Annabella
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 1:43:18 PM
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 1:46:00 PM
When I read your OP, I knew exactly what your post would be about. The real story in Israel is not being reported.
Hold on. I'll come back with more links.
Also, did you know when Israel fires back, they sound sirens so that innocent bystanders can take cover b/c they only want to go after the Hamas terrorist agitators? Who ever heard of that kind of 'warfare?' |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:01:32 PM
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gar
Whoopea!
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October 2004
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:03:27 PM
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news and world headlines?
As Jenny said, it is big headline news on UK tv.
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:03:56 PM
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:06:38 PM
Did you know that in the last 12 years, terrorists (Palestinian) have fired more than 12,000 rockets at Israel. What exactly should Israel do about that? Just sit there and let their school children be killed? Fire back?
What would the US be expected to do IF Mexico did this? Annabella, I presume you think we would just sit there as you expect Israel to do. That was rhetorical. I know your answer. It has always been the same. Crickets chirping. B/c you don't respond with direct answers. |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:07:29 PM
Did you know that over last weekend over 120 rockets were fired AT ISRAEL from Gaza? What should Israel have done then?  |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:12:45 PM
Obama just recently gave Israel a ridiculous amount of money so they could continue to attack Palestine. There is no outcry because you get what you put out. If Israel wants peace they need to act like it.
Perfect Annabella Thank you so much for this. It's the perfect framework for my point.
Here is a quote from wiki but you can google US aid to Gaza and find your own source:
The entities that provide aid to the Palestinians are categorized into seven groups: the Arab nations, the European Union, the United States, Japan, international institutions (including agencies of the UN system), European countries, and other nations..
Clearly, the US funds Gaza (Palestine).
So we can just as easily say:
Obama just recently gave GAZA a ridiculous amount of money so they could continue to attack ISRAEL. There is no outcry because you get what you put out. If PALESTINIANS want peace they need to act like it.
STAMP THAT.
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guzismom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
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March 2002
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:16:42 PM
I don't know where you live, but I've been hearing about this all week.
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lovetodigi
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:28:30 PM
It was on during the night as breaking news on CNN. I have also heard it reported several times on MSNBC and Fox Atlanta News. Not sure why you think it is not being reported. |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 2:30:15 PM
When I heard it being reported by CNN it wasn't that Israeli's were being hammered by Gaza rockets. It was that 4 Gazans were killed by Israelis. And they left out that the Israelis were retaliating.
What you may have heard as the breaking news was the assassination of the head Hamas terrorist?
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lovetodigi
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 3:47:34 PM
What you may have heard as the breaking news was the assassination of the head Hamas terrorist?
That could be. I was half asleep and had left the tv on when we went to bed. When I mentioned it to DH this morning, he told me about the rockets that had been fired on Israel. I don't know if he heard if from CNN or not, but he had heard it somewhere.
Here are links from the from page of Huffington Post.
Rockets Fired By Militants Hit Tel Aviv... More Than 200 Launched... 3 Dead In South... Heaviest Fighting In 4 Years... Netanyahu: Army Prepared For 'Significant Widening' Of Conflict... 15 Dead, Over 100 Injured In Gaza... BBC Journalist's Infant Son Dies In Attack... Israel Launches New Air Raids... Calls Up Thousands Of Reservists... France Tries To Avert Violence... LIVE UPDATES
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ilovecookies
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 3:52:22 PM
This happened in Israel a few minutes ago.
Why is the media not grabbing this and making it breaking news and world headlines?
It's the main story on NBC News, BBC News, and a front page story on CNN (websites). I'd say they are.
It's been all over the local and national news including those mentioned above and NPR. Do you live in a cave, OP? |
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 4:05:51 PM
Sirens went off in Tel Aviv today, for the first time since 1991 as two missiles were fired from Gaza, at Israel's largest city....fortunately, Hamas cannot shoot straight, and they landed in the ocean. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 4:33:49 PM
The people that the Palestinians fire on are mostly religious zealots who illegally occupy Palestinian territory, even against the wishes of the Israeli government. Other communities are these insane outposts of a few hundred people completely surrounded by Palestinian territory that would not exist if not for the protection of the Israeli army and border patrol. While it is disgusting to fire rockets on anyone, religious zealots on both sides are responsible for the escalation of the conflict and until Israel gets their own people in line, nothing is going to change. | |
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CupcakePea
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 | Posted: 11/15/2012 4:43:25 PM
And Wolf Blitzer on CNN was just giving the israeli ambassador to the US a very hard time about an 11 month old Palestinian baby being killed. Asking him over and over if he knew Israel killed an 11 month old baby......no mention of any Israelis being hurt or killed from him.
not surprising, thank you again MSM for your impartial reporting. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 4:50:23 PM
It is not the job of the reporter to console the Israeli ambassador but to objectively critique his position given the facts.
If the Israeli army is killing babies in response to the death of babies, why shouldn't we question their morality?
Furthermore, the number of Palestinians vs Israeli killed over the last 3 decades is staggering.
By the way, I am jewish and believe that Israel has a right to exist - but it damn well does not represent me in any way. | |
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 4:53:38 PM
The people that the Palestinians fire on are mostly religious zealots who illegally occupy Palestinian territory, even against the wishes of the Israeli government. Other communities are these insane outposts of a few hundred people completely surrounded by Palestinian territory that would not exist if not for the protection of the Israeli army and border patrol. While it is disgusting to fire rockets on anyone, religious zealots on both sides are responsible for the escalation of the conflict and until Israel gets their own people in line, nothing is going to change.
Bullshit! Take a map of Israel and acquaint yourself with the cities that are being fired upon. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 5:02:27 PM
LOL Like where? In Sedrot? These Gaza border towns are mostly areas where Palestinians were forced out by the military. The only ones who move there are religious zealots, crazy people who think that it is their god given right to live there. They are not like you and I, unless you also think that a man in the sky gave a certain subset of the population rights to a land not inhabited by them for 2000 years. | |
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doesitmatter?
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 5:14:09 PM
It's been a main story all morning - on ABC and CNN. And sadly, it isn't rare |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 6:00:36 PM
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sums up the situation perfectly:
There is no moral symmetry; there is no moral equivalence, between Israel and the terrorist organizations in Gaza. The terrorists are committing a double war crime. They fire at Israeli civilians, and they hide behind Palestinian civilians. And by contrast, Israel takes every measure to avoid civilian casualties.
Oblio, do you want to address the terroists hiding behind their own people to protect themselves, something the Israelis don't and never would do?
You do a lot of justification for the Hamas murders. But you're overlooking a lot of their tactics as well. Sderot is just normal Israelis going about their lives. With gas masks and children having drills at school. Sounds acceptable to you, I suppose.
ETA: If in fact that number is staggering, the above may be why. B/c the Palestinians don't mind using their people as human shields. That is proven fact. You are probably also counting the Palestinian homicide bombers. Lots of those. But I don't know where you are getting your stats from so until you post a reputable source I'm not just going to accept your word.
The IDF is better about caring for its own people so of course there could be that explanation for the lower number of Israelis killed in spite of the constant attacks over the years by the Palestinians.
The IDF also targets Hamas outposts specifically and warns the innocents before they come in. Who the hell terrorist ever does that? They don't. They bomb and rocket will nilly to kill as many Israelis as possibly and you know it. But you justify it. |
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scrappinghappy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 7:02:52 PM
I apologies for having posted and run. I'm waiting for my daughters concert at school do only have a few minutes to reply.
I've spent most if the day today on Skype and FB with family and friends in Israel and I'll come back later and post some pictures that the media could be showing but isn't.
In response to my op, this has only come onto the news today because it's escalating. Israel has been under rocket attack for weeks now. Their response was to take out the Hamas leader which has caused an escalation in rockers being fired at Israeli CITIZENS. As Batya has pointed out, Israel takes care to avoid involving citizens wherever possible. The Palestinians send CHILDREN to taunt the Israeli soldiers in an attempt to cause anger and rash reactions. To my mind it is amazing that there hadn't been but if there was can you imagine the outcry internationally because a child wax involved, never mind who sent that child?
Again, imagine if my thread title were true. Wouldn't you be outraged and demand the USA fight back. Why does Israel not have the right to defend itself?
And if you know your middle east history you would know Britain gave the Jews Israel back in 1917 and then tried to take it back, hence the 1948 war of independence. Before that the area belonged to the Pttoman Empire. The Palestinian Nation DID NOT EXIST before the 20th century. They are a people that none of the other Arab nations wanted to allow into their country.
Sorry to post and run but dd's concert is about to start. Back later |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 8:09:55 PM
Batya, I am not trying to justify the actions of Hamas. However, many Israelis are hardly innocent and actively participate in the on going conflict.
"As Batya has pointed out, Israel takes care to avoid involving citizens wherever possible. "
Like when they opened fire on civilians during the floatilla raid? The Israelis act with impunity and worry about the consequences later - which they then ignore.
" The Palestinian Nation DID NOT EXIST before the 20th century. They are a people that none of the other Arab nations wanted to allow into their country. "
This is a bunch of racist hogwash. Get your head out of your ass. It is possible to be Jewish, care about Israel and not regurgitate their propaganda. | |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 8:14:43 PM
I hear you. But Hamas are terrorists, being legitimized by the UN and there is no comparison. While Israel is stigmatized by them. There are many normal families living in Sderot being pounded. Every day for years. Hamas treats the Gazans like garbage. They are people who just want to live as such. I want them to live as people. Their own 'govt' won't let them. Why is Israel to blame? |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 8:17:15 PM
Israel is to blame because they do very little to advance the cause of peace. Not just at the government level but by the actions of individuals. The country is full of racist zealots who think that they are God's chosen people. | |
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Annabella
Leads a Charmed Life
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 8:39:34 PM
What would the US be expected to do IF Mexico did this? Annabella, I presume you think we would just sit there as you expect Israel to do. That was rhetorical. I know your answer. It has always been the same. Crickets chirping. B/c you don't respond with direct answers.
You haven't asked a serious question? You can not compare apples to oranges. America has done nothing to Mexico. Israel created an apartheid state 60 years ago occupying the Palestinian territory where they kicked people straight out of their homes, literally. After being persecuted in Europe they turn around and treat the Palestinians like second class citizens and are oh so surprised they hate them. You can argue whose land it was, but the fact remains it was how the Israels chose to treat the Palestinians when they arrived and to this day, that is what created this problem.
Until they treat the Palestinians like humans and respect them, they will never have peace. I remember a thread recently with peas bend out of shape because the term holocaust was used inappropriately, but no comparison was made to how the Palestinians refugees have lived in tent cities not much different than the warsaw ghetto. You're so one sided in the way you see things. Your answer is they can just go move to another country, while Israel ships in non-religious Russians to take their land.
I googled to get the exact figure, this July Obama gave Israel $70 million for military aid. Is that not enough? That could have gone to education in this country, cut our deficient, plenty other things. We just got out of Iraq and soon Afghanistan, we can not play peace keeper in Israel because of what a hard headed "bully" (to put it nicely) Netanyahu is. He has to have a serious game change attitude adjustment because he will never win, Israel will never have peace, and synagogues in America will always have to have security. Are 60 years of this not enough proof? The more Israel bombs, the more it riles up the rest of the middle east and now that Syria is unstable, well you're just asking for trouble. American can not afford financially a WWIII because Israel can't let go. Seriously you might not like it, but time has proven that you will not win. |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 8:47:41 PM
Synagogues in America need to have security b/c of this? Your history is seriously lacking. It's a shame.
In 1948 when the land was partitioned, the UN offered to make two states, an Arab one and an Israeli one. The Arabs said no. They said all or nothing and they said they will take nothing and will not rest until Israel is off the map. Annabella, propaganda is what you have been fed, indeed. And you are not a skilled regurgitator, either.
Too bad you missed the point on the Mexico question, too.
Actually, Oblio, Israel is 70% secularist Jews who don't buy into the 'Chosen people' belief, so you are also a propagandist who cries racist a bit too soon on this one. How can the country be full of people with a religious belief when they are secularists??? They don't buy into that, so you are as far off as Annabella is. |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:01:54 PM
batya, the one's who move onto occupied territories are hardly secularists
"In 1948 when the land was partitioned, the UN offered to make two states, an Arab one and an Israeli one. The Arabs said no. They said all or nothing and they said they will take nothing and will not rest until Israel is off the map. Annabella, propaganda is what you have been fed, indeed. And you are not a skilled regurgitator, either."
You need to familiarize yourself with the colonial experiences of countries in asia and africa...Almost every modern conflict in Asia and Africa is the result of how the British and French partitioned their territories. | |
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russiansage
BucketHead
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Loc: IL
| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:02:09 PM
Obama just recently gave Israel a ridiculous amount of money so they could continue to attack Palestine. There is no outcry because you get what you put out. If Israel wants peace they need to act like it.
You sound angry.
Could you link to a site that states the amount that Israel received? BTW it wasn't from "Obama" , but from the US taxpayer. i.e you and me...
ETa : If you think $70 million dollars would even make a nick in the deficit, you're a fool. | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,076
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:41:21 PM
Obama just recently gave Israel a ridiculous amount of money so they could continue to attack Palestine. There is no outcry because you get what you put out. If Israel wants peace they need to act like it.
There is no nation called Palestine. There never was a sovereign nation of Palestine. The region was never governed by Palestinians. They had their opportunity for their own independent nation- something they have desired for centuries, but turned down because the UN was going to require they share it with Israel. When Israel didn't lose after being invaded and attacked multiple times by neighboring Islamic nations, the Palestinians didn't get e results they had hope for. So there is no nation of "Palestine" for Israel to attack. Israel has given land to Palestinian refugees- whom NO NEIGHBORING ISLAMIC NATION has ever wanted living in their borders, but Israel gives them land after they elect terrorist leaders and bomb their civilians. | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,076
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:49:05 PM
You haven't asked a serious question? You can not compare apples to oranges. America has done nothing to Mexico. Israel created an apartheid state 60 years ago occupying the Palestinian territory where they kicked people straight out of their homes, literally. After being persecuted in Europe they turn around and treat the Palestinians like second class citizens and are oh so surprised they hate them. You can argue whose land it was, but the fact remains it was how the Israels chose to treat the Palestinians when they arrived and to this day, that is what created this problem.
Um, you must be forgetting that all of what is now Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California were all once a part of Mexico. Palestinians never had their own nation. Before Israel was granted their land (that they had been forcibly removed from by the Roman Empire) by the UN in 1948, the Palestinians REFUSED their offer for their own land. The Palestinians were counting on the Arab neighbors attacking and wiping Israel right off the map and handing that land over to the Palestinian people. Didn't quite turn out as they planned. Israel is not the great bully you want to make the out to be. And you absolutely can compare the US and Mexico with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Back in the early 1800's we were in our own border wars with Mexico and wound up taking quite a bit of land that was once theirs.
Thankfully, they've moved on and aren't sending rockets over our borders. They seem to be okay with us now- we're an excellent source of income for them... | |
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CupcakePea
PeaNut
PeaNut 465,236
April 2010
Posts: 191
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:54:27 PM
Annabella you need to realize too that having a "friend" in Israel, i.e., having a friend in the middle east is of great benefit to us. That's our driving factor for helping them. It's good for us- if they go down, not good for us at all. So even if you don't believe that Israel has the right to exist, for selfish reasons at least you should consider the implications to our country should they fall. | |
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scrappinghappy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 38,979
May 2002
Posts: 5,310
Layouts: 71
Loc: Anywhere one or more of my kids are
| Posted: 11/15/2012 9:56:57 PM
Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed over $4 BILLION in bilateral assistance to the
Palestinians, who are among the world’s largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid.
Congressional Research service link
From the same article
From FY2008 to the present, ANNUAL U.S. bilateral assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip has
averaged nearly $600 million, including annual averages of approximately $200 million in direct
budgetary assistance and $100 million in non-lethal security assistance for the PA in the West
Bank.
That $70 million Obama gave Israel was a drop in the bucket compared to what he has given the Palestinians |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,076
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 11/15/2012 10:00:20 PM
If anyone thinks Israel doesn't have a right of exist, they are incredibly naive. Every nation exists on land that was once occupied by others. Every nation has created their own refugees. Israel was repeatedly been the refugees when that area was taken from them by the Roman Empire. They were disbursed through central and Eastern Europe until the Holocaust. And when they were given their land, it was NOT governed by Palestine, but controlled by the British Empire. They had to babysit the region. When the UN created Israel, they offered land to Palestinians so they too could have their own nation, but they rejected it. Knowing your history and geography is a very good thing. | |
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scrappinghappy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 38,979
May 2002
Posts: 5,310
Layouts: 71
Loc: Anywhere one or more of my kids are
| Posted: 11/15/2012 10:15:34 PM
These pictures were on my FB feed today
Photo: Gideon Rahamim
This little girl lost three members of her family to the Hamas rockets this morning. They were in their LIVING ROOM!!
In Tel Aviv 10 hours ago, motorists hide behind their cars on the Ayalon highway, one of the busiest roads in Israel.
Or this from the BBC
Or this from the IDF. What other army warns the citizens about their actions. Did we do that in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Vietnam?
Sorr about the large pictures. I'm posting from my phone and don't know how to change them |
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mamashosh
Sugar Snap Pea
PeaNut 257,999
April 2006
Posts: 13,364
Layouts: 3
| Posted: 11/15/2012 10:15:36 PM
In 1948 when the land was partitioned, the UN offered to make two states, an Arab one and an Israeli one. The Arabs said no. They said all or nothing and they said they will take nothing and will not rest until Israel is off the map. Annabella, propaganda is what you have been fed, indeed. And you are not a skilled regurgitator, either.
This needs to be repeated over and over because some people just don't seem to get it.
Batya and Mrs. Tyler can argue this much more eloquently than I can, so I will just defer to their expertise on this matter, but you can count me in agreement with them. |
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 843
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 11/15/2012 11:10:30 PM
most of the responses here are exactly why university should be free for all. | |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
PeaNut 59,094
December 2002
Posts: 31,814
Layouts: 24
Loc: up on my high horse
| Posted: 11/15/2012 11:48:38 PM
Disagreement with your position does not equal uneducated responses. I went to a quite competitive and one of the most liberal universities in the northeast. My responses are informed and just happen not to agree with yours. They are not steeped in religious myth but history, fact and current events. If you have to stoop to personal attacks, that's the hallmark of a debater who has lost. And it's a shame b/c while your delivery often lacks, I think you make very good points. It just happens that this time, I disagree with you.
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OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 843
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 11/16/2012 12:31:50 AM
it's hard to take a position seriously when its core argument is that the british did it so it must be ok. one needs only look at the outcome of disengagement on africa. redrawing borders and replacing one colonial power with another is hardly just. my position is far more pragmatic than yours. instead of calling the palestinians cry babies and sore losers, I've taken a humanist approach where I recognize their suffering while simultaneous acknowledging that inspite of what might be perceived as a terrible injustice, israel exists and its not going to change. So how to move forward? One way is to not blindly follow israel down a bottomless pit as attack helicopters and fighter jets drop bombs indiscriminately (we saw just how accurate precision fire is in iraq, not) on civilians. It is ok to be critical of Israel. The palestinians are not innocents but to use a sordid and twisted account of history as justification for war is lunacy. | |
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