How wil we fund health care, wellfare, etc when there are no people left to tax?

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Posted 11/16/2012 by old pea new name in NSBR Board
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old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/16/2012 7:41:09 PM
Obama's answer "the rich pay a little more". Ok. what happens when the poor and expectant grossly outnumber the "rich"?

Seriously.

People say "I'm much better off with Obama".

Really? How? Are you earning well over $100,000 or $150,000 a couple? If you are , kudos. You've worked hard and you should appreciate it. But is you earn $60-100,000, how are you better off?

And if there are fewer business owners and fewer wealthy people, how do we support those who CAN work but don't HAVE to? And I mean that. People who are getting by on unemployment with one decent breadwinner. Getting buy taking money from a union asking for voluntary layoffs. People on disability for the following : ADHD, ADD, Anxiety ( people are qualifying).

Do people truly not worry about what happens when there is no money to give them what they are owed? abortions, birth control, tuition, mortgage assistance, cell phones, etc? Why is anyone ENTITLED to any of that? And I ask because a sizable portion of the voting population votes for what they can get.

Shevy
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Posted: 11/16/2012 8:28:03 PM
Seriously?

You spend the last few months 'not posting politics' after several Peas call you out for posting incorrect/not all details in your political posts. You said you weren't going to engage that way. Only to start posting political posts again right after the elections?

And your first political post is to call anyone who voted for Obama clueless?

I've spent the last 30 minutes shaking my head over this one.



peapermint
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Posted: 11/16/2012 9:59:38 PM
For your own well-being, please take a chill pill or you'll drive yourself insane before Obama's term is out.

Chlerbie
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Posted: 11/16/2012 10:21:48 PM

And I ask because a sizable portion of the voting population votes for what they can get.


Bless your little heart.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/16/2012 10:52:52 PM

And I ask because a sizable portion of the voting population votes for what they can get.

and I guess that "some" rich people don't vote for less taxes, or less restrictions on their environmental pollution from their business, because after all "they" don't have to live in "that" neighborhood where you can no longer drink the water, or less wages for their employees, YEAH RIGHT!


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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:02:24 PM

Ok. what happens when the poor and expectant grossly outnumber the "rich"?


This is already the case. The top 1% holds 50% of the wealth. If that isn't "grossly outnumbering," I don't know what is.



huskergal
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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:11:12 PM
Why not just stop now?

Yes, the majority of the wealth is in the hands of the few. What if that number continues to skew in that direction. There won't be any money for the rest of the people to earn. Have you ever thought of that. The wealthy aren't trickling it down. They are keeping it.


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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:14:14 PM

Obama's answer "the rich pay a little more". Ok. what happens when the poor and expectant grossly outnumber the "rich"?


Then the middle class will get taxed more, too.


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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:52:23 PM

Yes, the majority of the wealth is in the hands of the few. What if that number continues to skew in that direction. There won't be any money for the rest of the people to earn. Have you ever thought of that. The wealthy aren't trickling it down. They are keeping it.




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Bumpea
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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:56:27 PM
Why can the left never give give a real answer to this very real concern? Peter can only take from Paul so much until Paul doesn't have enough left to cover everything Peter wants.

This is basic, indisputable math no matter what side of the aisle you sit.

Seriously, what's the plan? Print more money? Borrow more from China than we already do? I'd love an actual answer that would lessen the rock weight in my gut.

L


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Posted: 11/16/2012 11:58:31 PM
Well it isn't as if the rest of us don't contribute. No matter how much the so-called rich pay, I will still be paying my share. I also believe it is going to take more than extra taxes to bankrupt the top 1%.


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huskergal
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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:01:37 AM
Paul has a whole lot of money. If Paul wants to contribute, instead of paying taxes Paul will become a job creator so people can earn money and pay taxes. If you aren't earning a living wage, you should not be paying income taxes.

Greed is the biggest problem we are facing in our economy. When is enough, enough?


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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:10:33 AM
According to the Republican scenario Paul is going to use his some of his boatload of money to create jobs which will help strengthen the economy. the problem with this is that Paul apparently didn't get the memo. Meanwhile the vast majority of the unwashed 47% are working their butts off to make ends meet and paying a higher percentage of their income in taxes than Paul is. I know, they are all legal loopholes. Built in by Paul and his buddies. The ones who are trickling down...nothing.

Its about time to stop characterizing everybody who voted for Obama as lazy freeloaders.







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peapermint
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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:24:58 AM
I can kind of understand when well-to-do people spout stuff about the 47%. There was a bank VP/City Council candidate in our town who once referred to the "nonproducers" and couldn't understand why anyone would be offended. But I will never be able to wrap my head around why regular, middle class people believe in trickle-down economics.

Barbara Ehrenrich's book, Fear of Falling, comes to mind.

wren*walk
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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:34:23 AM

Ok. what happens when the poor and expectant grossly outnumber the "rich"?




I suppose that the 1% will pack up their gold and run away together to some place like Texas. Texas will then finally secede from the Union and build a fence around themselves. They'll have strict border controls but there will be a worker program so that a few "poor and expectant" aliens can come in and do the low skilled hard manual jobs that no one else there wants to do. For this they'll earn just enough money to feed their family but of course, there will be no benefits or job security. Naturally, they won't have to worry about taxes, since they will be making too little to reach the minimum tax bracket.

And so, the "poor and expectant" will be exactly the same as they are now...SOL.





Jane71
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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:36:11 AM
They are not paying a higher % in income taxes than Paul. That is pure bullshit. I have to seriously question the sanity of anyone who voted for Obama??? Our country is screwed!

MochasMom
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Posted: 11/17/2012 12:57:21 AM

Meanwhile the vast majority of the unwashed 47% are working their butts off to make ends meet and paying a higher percentage of their income in taxes than Paul is.
I would really like to see some supporting documentation that the 47% you mentioned are paying a "higher percentage of their income in taxes".

I will refer you to the IRS publication I have provided the link for. The entire publication is worth reading however please look at Figure B and point out how they are paying a higher percentage.

IRS


Taxpayers filed 142.5 million returns for Tax
Year 2008. Of those, 90.7 million (or 63.6
percent) were classified as taxable returns.
This represents the lowest percentage in more than
23 years. A taxable return is a return that has total
income tax greater than $0. The number of taxable
returns for 2008 was 5.8 percent lower than for
2007.
Opening paragraph of the publication linked above.

mamato1
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Posted: 11/17/2012 1:02:00 AM
I'm totally sane and its offensive to be called insane for looking at the information and coming to a different conclusion than you. Generally.

Do I think rolling back tax cuts on the top 1% of earners will solve every problem? No. Of course not. But it solves some. It's a step. And, it's fair. I will never understand why people who make substantially less than that top 1% of earners argue so strongly for them not paying their fair share. That makes no sense.

We need to make changes to create a smarter, stronger, healthier America. That benefits all of us.

The OP lost her shit, similarly, in 2008, so I'm not at all surprised that she's losing to again.




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MochasMom
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Posted: 11/17/2012 1:16:03 AM
mamato1: Please explain how it is "fair" to expect more from one segment and expect nothing but call that their "fair share" from others. The number of tax returns paying zero income tax has grown to yes 47%. That percentage has been climbing steadily since 2008. You can question the validity of people's statements; however, I don't believe you can question the reports generated by the IRS regarding the number of returns; taxes paid and percentages.

mamato1
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Posted: 11/17/2012 6:31:32 AM
If you're feeding a family on an income of under 16k a year, I'm okay with you getting some tax help. If you're like the 100,000 Americans making over 200k a year and you're not paying taxes, I'm not okay with that.

Additionally, 2/3 of the 46.4% still pay payroll, social security tax and state tax. And,a lot of them are senior citizens living on a fixed income. I'm okay with a senior on a fixed income not paying taxes. I don't want Grandma eating cat food or going without her meds over some small number that could be easily offset by the 100,000 high earners that pay no taxes due to loopholes and similar.


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lynlam
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Posted: 11/17/2012 6:40:06 AM
"Its about time to stop characterizing everybody who voted for Obama as lazy freeloaders."
--------

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.





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Nancie52
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Posted: 11/17/2012 6:49:20 AM

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.



mamato1
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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:09:58 AM
Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.



---------------------------------

I'm calling bullshit.

I live in an extremely poor, very red part of Appalachia. 16% of my county lives in poverty. Our average salary here is $35,000. That's averaged. In a population of 49k people, 18k people are on food stamps. Nearly half. In a red county. Chances are good that 47% of them aren't paying taxes

But they're voting republican. Does that not make them lazy freeloaders? Because they voted republican? What qualifications are you using to determine who is lazy and entitled? I'd love to hear it.


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Long ago Barney
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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:12:42 AM
Weren't there stats given during the campaign how little it would really give us by taxing the rich more?? Not that I am against it but that always seems to be liberals complaint-the rich don't pay their fair share. I totally get that! Agree! But we r so far past that threshold even that isn't going to help. Maybe mentally!!


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Long ago Barney
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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:19:01 AM
To answer that, it is flat gonna crumble. They can only print so much more money before that will stop.
I have an older dear friend who has always said oh I am gonna be dead by then. I have never verbalized it but thought that too! Now i realize this could happen pretty fast. If it continues at the same rate-has anyone ever figured this? That would theoretically b 32trillion in 4 years.(best scenario) But seriously I think it would speed up toward THat point. It is a runaway freight train.


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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:31:31 AM

But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.


No...I'm pretty sure Skybar and Rainbow Scrapper voted for Romney.



~*kristina*~
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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:41:27 AM

What qualifications are you using to determine who is lazy and entitled? I'd love to hear it.




I think they are trying to say....black, urban Americans who have the same right to vote as they do.





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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:44:06 AM

But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.



No...I'm pretty sure Skybar and Rainbow Scrapper voted for Romney.


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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:50:14 AM

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.


In my circle of acquaintances, this is not the case.



mamato1
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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:50:40 AM
I think they are trying to say....black, urban Americans who have the same right to vote as they do.

---------------------------------

Well, I'm hoping that's not it.

I do think there are the "welfare queens" and scammer, but it's only around 2%. A drop in the bucket. I'd really like some concrete examples of why the entitled poor only votes for Obama. Especially considering the amount of welfare relieved by poorer, southern Red states.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/17/2012 7:56:34 AM

How will we fund health care, welfare, etc when there are no people left to tax?


Well first of all if the 1% had created enough jobs with all their profits like the "trickle down" theory was supposed to have done, instead of hoarding that cash, while still screaming how unfair the tax code was, most of these people would HAVE jobs, and wouldn't be on welfare or food stamps to begin with.

2nd, even what few jobs they did create were part time, didn't include health coverage, or the pay was so low that people still qualified for food stamps, or other forms of assistance, while STILL WORKING.

So if you want more people off of welfare, then start by giving those ALREADY WORKING sometimes 2 jobs, for minimum wage, a decent wage, and they'll in turn, get off of food stamps and pay more taxes, but all the Wall Street cronies are never going to admit that they have made TONS of cash, even during President Obama's term, and yet have not paid decent wages at their factories, frozen wage increases, and dropped their employees healthcare, or raised the rates of that healthcare EVERY SINGLE YEAR, long before the Healthcare Act, and while they were doing this the CEO's were raking in record bonuses and 10 million dollar salaries.

So now Wall Street is constantly crying "foul" because they are being told these tax breaks they have been receiving are going down the toilet because they didn't do what they claimed they were going to do with the cash they made, you know like CREATE JOBS!

Ask Romney he stashed his cash in Cayman Island's and Switzerland, and didn't even leave it in the U.S., while you can bet he took advantage of every tax break possible. Creating jobs was the last thought on his mind, despite his claims to the contrary.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:07:51 AM

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.



---------------------------------

I'm calling bullshit.

I live in an extremely poor, very red part of Appalachia. 16% of my county lives in poverty. Our average salary here is $35,000. That's averaged. In a population of 49k people, 18k people are on food stamps. Nearly half. In a red county. Chances are good that 47% of them aren't paying taxes

But they're voting republican. Does that not make them lazy freeloaders? Because they voted republican? What qualifications are you using to determine who is lazy and entitled? I'd love to hear it.

Yep, I say BS also, some of the poorest states in the country are REALLY RED, I know TN is and that is where I live, and most of the people I know who are on assistance are WHITE. and voted for Romney.


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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:18:15 AM

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.


Lynlam you really are a piece of crap. You get dumber and dumber with each post. Nothing you've posted this election cycle has been beneficial to you or your party. Those agreeing with you, Nancie52, this applies to you as well.


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gerryglow
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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:29:42 AM
Let me first say I am a Republican. I voted for Romney (I live in Illinois so that is a moot point). I'm not happy that Obama won, but it is what it is. Here's the bottom line - whether you pay $100 a year in taxes or $10,000 the government is WASTING colossal amounts of our tax dollars. I'm not talking about welfare programs either. Waste in general. Bureaucratic waste. I'd like to see the citizens of this country stop fighting about what programs are right and what programs are wrong and address the amount of money that's wasted every single hour of every single day.
Just take a look at some of the studies you hear about on the news. Do we really need a study (that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) to tell us that diabetes is increasing because of obesity? NO KIDDING! I have heard so many reports on so many studies that are pure common sense. Wasteful.
What we need is a committee of some of those women feeding their families and managing a household on $40,000 a year to go to Washington and cut the crap.
End of rant.


Gerry



Nancie52
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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:29:55 AM
defining freeloader does not mean EVERYONE receiving assistance falls into that category.. freeloaders, IMO, are those that are perfectly CAPABLE of working but are finding ways NOT to.. and from where I come from and what I see.. this is most DEFINITELY the case.. and my opinion is that those of us who have NEVER taken an umemployment check (when we could have), NEVER taken food stamps (when we could have)..etc. etc.. why can't MY kids get college assistance.. why aren't those of us that don't burden the system, get assistance.. ???

PEPEA - namecalling? please... change your picture back... again!

Shevy
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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:33:43 AM
Once again, the OP drops a post and never comes back to reply...



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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:34:05 AM
I live in a rural red county. Many of the people here who get government assistance are anti Obama and seem to vote based on The Guns (keeping them) and The Gays (keeping them away). The wealthier also vote red.

I would imagine a lot of the Obama voters here are a lot like DH and I: I'm a teacher who votes my job (with consideration for other issues) and he is a college grad who makes pennies working for the county government (who only started leaning left as the right candidates became more right and the left candidates became more moderate). Our combined salary is well under 100k but we're not lazy, looking for tax breaks, or needing assistance.

We're not better off. As a public school teacher my job is less secure than ever, but that's because of the governor, not the president.

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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:34:46 AM

Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.

Lynlam you really are a piece of crap. You get dumber and dumber with each post. Nothing you've posted this election cycle has been beneficial to you or your party. Those agreeing with you, Nancie52, this applies to you as well.

I don't let her, or her kind bother me anymore, I figure for every post she makes it turns 5 Independents into Democrats, and makes the Republican Party look as crazy as she is, so I figure she's doing more to help the Democratic Party, than 20 sane Democratic posters ever could.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:41:55 AM

Here's the bottom line - whether you pay $100 a year in taxes or $10,000 the government is WASTING colossal amounts of our tax dollars. I'm not talking about welfare programs either. Waste in general. Bureaucratic waste. I'd like to see the citizens of this country stop fighting about what programs are right and what programs are wrong and address the amount of money that's wasted every single hour of every single day.
Just take a look at some of the studies you hear about on the news. Do we really need a study (that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) to tell us that diabetes is increasing because of obesity? NO KIDDING! I have heard so many reports on so many studies that are pure common sense. Wasteful.
What we need is a committee of some of those women feeding their families and managing a household on $40,000 a year to go to Washington and cut the crap.

I agree with this totally!


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Nancie52
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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:43:09 AM

Let me first say I am a Republican. I voted for Romney (I live in Illinois so that is a moot point). I'm not happy that Obama won, but it is what it is. Here's the bottom line - whether you pay $100 a year in taxes or $10,000 the government is WASTING colossal amounts of our tax dollars. I'm not talking about welfare programs either. Waste in general. Bureaucratic waste. I'd like to see the citizens of this country stop fighting about what programs are right and what programs are wrong and address the amount of money that's wasted every single hour of every single day.
Just take a look at some of the studies you hear about on the news. Do we really need a study (that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) to tell us that diabetes is increasing because of obesity? NO KIDDING! I have heard so many reports on so many studies that are pure common sense. Wasteful.
What we need is a committee of some of those women feeding their families and managing a household on $40,000 a year to go to Washington and cut the crap.
End of rant.


I hope I see YOUR name on a ballot... THANK YOU.. you make the most sense..!!

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Posted: 11/17/2012 8:43:44 AM
I think Gerryglow might be onto something.


When I went to edit my signature, the "Edit Signature" title was spelled wrong. So that was distracting and I forgot what I wanted my new signature to be.

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Posted: 11/17/2012 9:24:24 AM

What we need is a committee of some of those women feeding their families and managing a household on $40,000 a year to go to Washington and cut the crap.
End of rant.


I seriously think that pretty much EVERY country could do with some of this. I don't care where you are from or how you vote, it seems to be the universal thing to fund the most ridiculous surveys for an extortionate amount of money just so that you can then employ your friends and family and pay them a ludicrous wage to set up a committee to oversee something that either a, wasn't even a problem to start with or b, could have been sorted out with a fraction of the money within a fraction of the time by employing a couple more people on the front line.

Where has all the common sense gone from in this world????

mamato1
PEA-vil Genius

PeaNut 54,808
November 2002
Posts: 12,243
Layouts: 138
Loc: Sweet Home Chicago

Posted: 11/17/2012 9:30:31 AM
I want to say that I'm on team Gerry.


~*Jamie*~
happily married to my very own Geek
Mom to the Divine Miss Em, sweet Cadiebug and baby Annie (6/09)
Uploaded with iPhone client

huskergal
Shameless Husker Fan

PeaNut 49,249
September 2002
Posts: 49,515
Layouts: 123
Loc: Husker Nation

Posted: 11/17/2012 9:31:40 AM
Lynlam: you are so delusional and misguided that it is impossible to consider your opinion any more.

Do we really need to rehash who the 47% are. Probably the majority have paid income taxes at some point. It is such a tired argument.


Susan



gerryglow
PeaNut

PeaNut 77,852
March 2003
Posts: 377
Layouts: 7
Loc: Illinois

Posted: 11/17/2012 9:33:13 AM
Awwww, shucks. Thanks Peas.


Gerry



dulcemama
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 302,969
March 2007
Posts: 5,301
Layouts: 1
Loc: participating in WWR and RAA

Posted: 11/17/2012 9:42:12 AM
Another one who agrees with Gerryglow. But one of the issue with this is that we don't seem to want to pay for oversight. Talk to anyone who works in social services and you will hear how over worked they are. This is one area where I think that this is one of many areas where we are penny wise and pound foolish. Sometimes you simply have to spend more in the short term to save in the long term.



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Hey! Where's my theme music?!?


hillhouse6
PeaAddict

PeaNut 332,592
August 2007
Posts: 1,895
Layouts: 0
Loc: kansas

Posted: 11/17/2012 10:26:42 AM
One of my Dem friends explained the election results this way "The takers have outnumbered the makers, so get over it". Because of the election results, I am going to be forced to close my business so I will no longer be a "Maker". Because of my financial choices, I will hopefully not have to be a "Taker" unitl social security.

PepPea
PeaAddict

PeaNut 484,512
October 2010
Posts: 2,597
Layouts: 615

Posted: 11/17/2012 10:39:37 AM

PEPEA - namecalling? please... change your picture back... again!




A little help here....WTH are you talking about?

Are you bothered by the fact that I am in an interracial relationship? If so, your problem, not mine. The picture stays until I decide to change it. By the way, my DBF is retired military and was a die-hard Republican. This election (Romney) has planted him firmly in the Democractic Party.


I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
Maya Angelou

You can call me Angela

hendersn
BucketHead

PeaNut 245,864
January 2006
Posts: 629
Layouts: 0
Loc: Centerville, Ohio

Posted: 11/17/2012 10:53:07 AM
mariah2 said:


Well over 60% of our annual budget is for the military. Funding for welfare and health care is miniscule in comparison.

Please. Actually know what you are talking about before you start weeping and wailing.


Here's a pie chart:

Federal Budget Pie Chart

In Fiscal 2012, Defense was 19.2 % of the federal budget. Maybe you should heed your own advice.


Sue

*Erin
triathlon pea

PeaNut 80,864
April 2003
Posts: 10,658
Layouts: 13
Loc: Gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 11/17/2012 10:58:02 AM


Not everyone who voted for Obama is a lazy freeloader. Never said that. But it's pretty safe to bet that eveyone who is a lazy freeloader voted for Obama.
Oh honey, you're embarrassing yourself again.


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