Definition of citizenship

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Posted 11/18/2012 by Beanbean in NSBR Board
 

Beanbean
~Beanie McBeanington~

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Posted: 11/18/2012 12:52:43 PM
I saw this on another forum this morning and it really hit home. This definition is from the great American sci-fi writer and essayist Robert Heinlein:


Citizenship an attitude, a state of mind, an emotional conviction that the whole is greater than the part... and that the part should be humbly proud to sacrifice itself that the whole may live.


I like it.


~~LeeAnne~~

"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor" -- George Carlin
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We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And spiders.~~ FDR (sort of)

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

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Posted: 11/18/2012 1:01:45 PM
I like it, too! Thanks for posting.


LUCYG
northern california

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



shelledpea
BucketHead

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Posted: 11/18/2012 1:18:25 PM
Great quote! And great reminder. I think it's time to lay this partisanship aside and start thinking like Americans again.





BuckeyeSandy
Old Dogs are Best!

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Posted: 11/18/2012 3:14:11 PM


"The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens, which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it; which for the majority translates as'Bread and Circuses.'

'Bread and Circuses' is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader; the barbarians enter Rome."
Robert A. Heinlein


Sandy
Every MOM is a working mom!
"Retired" after 22 years of an Air Force Career

REMEMBER this Veterans Day

To quote Wayne Gretzky, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."

Aesculus

WillowJane
Running the Marathon, Not the Sprint

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Posted: 11/18/2012 3:24:14 PM
Where is the LIKE button when you need it?

Thank you Buckeye Sandy!



Just Lizzy
Original Pea #5005

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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:05:21 PM

"The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens, which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it; which for the majority translates as'Bread and Circuses.'

'Bread and Circuses' is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader; the barbarians enter Rome."
Robert A. Heinlein


Feeder of Denali, Dakota, Shadow & Kai

PunchPrincess

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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:09:34 PM
Does anyone else think that the first quote expresses an attitude that the second one doesn't follow? BeanBean and Sandy, are you sure this is the same man?


<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


nanett
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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:19:25 PM

Where is the LIKE button when you need it?

Thank you Buckeye Sandy!


+1

nanett
PeaAddict

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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:23:37 PM

Does anyone else think that the first quote expresses an attitude that the second one doesn't follow? BeanBean and Sandy, are you sure this is the same man?


Not at all. I think the 2nd quote clarifies what the first quote meant about sacrificing that the whole may live.

The 2nd quote points out what will happen once people start voting for their own self interest and not with what is for the greater good.

Many of us feel there was a lot of 'bread and circuses' voting this time around.

I don't think all people voted for Obama as a 'bread and circus' vote. But I do believe MANY people did.

BuckeyeSandy
Old Dogs are Best!

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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:28:39 PM

are you sure this is the same man?
Yep!

I'm still trying to find his quote about how high political office ought to be a lottery and if you do good, you get released when the term is up.

Another one of his was about voting, you have to solve a quadratic equation before voting. Otherwise, you still voted, but it was not counted.

These both came from his book of his writings and lectures that were published after his death. Grumbles from the Grave


Sandy
Every MOM is a working mom!
"Retired" after 22 years of an Air Force Career

REMEMBER this Veterans Day

To quote Wayne Gretzky, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."

Aesculus

PunchPrincess

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Loc: where 71 and 70 meet

Posted: 11/18/2012 4:29:45 PM

I don't think all people voted for Obama as a 'bread and circus' vote. But I do believe MANY people did.


Do you think that some of those who voted for Romney did it because they thought he would lower their taxes? Doesn't that qualify as "bread?"

There are many Republicans I know who say they can't find educated people to hire but they also complain about the cost of education. That just doesn't compute, IMO.


<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


raindancer
Capt. Sparrow's Pirate Wench

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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:30:09 PM

The 2nd quote points out what will happen once people start voting for their own self interest and not with what is for the greater good.


I think we have to be careful here, because communism is about the absolute greater good, yet we know it never works. In fact it makes things far worse over all than democracy. In addition, we are a republic.

But it's good to think about anyway.


~Heidi~



"You can make excuses or you can make progress but you can't make both."
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