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busypea
boring + nerdy
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 |  Posted: 11/26/2012 11:42:34 AM
DS will be 5 in March. He LOVES music. Always has. We constantly have music on, he loves to dance, sing, and toy instuments have been some of his very favorite toys since he was very young.
He has been talking for a while about wanting to learn an instrument. We are going to get him an instrument for Christmas and then start lessons. We're not sure what instrument to go with, though. His answer when asked which one he wants to learn to play is always, "All of them!" He doesn't have a clear favorite in what he chooses to play with from his toys, or when he listens to music.
So... what instruments are the most suitable to start learning at that age? Any that you would recommend avoiding? | |
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VexedAngel
Cold Pea on a Cracked Plate
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 | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:57:05 AM
Music educator of 11 years and music therapist for 4. I recommend piano. Piano will teach him to read both treble and bass clefs and is so versatile. In the music world, it will be very useful, too--he'll have a lot of opportunities to use those skills. I used my piano skills to accompany other musicians in high school and college, and it was a good source of income for me in college, too.
As a teacher, I always taught with method books but always supplemented by teaching how to play by ear, and some blues and jazz forms to increase interest and to give some different skills (like 'jamming' with friends, etc). Something to consider. There is a method book out there just for younger learners like your son, too.
Guitar is more 'popular,' but he is so little he needs a 3/4 instrument this point. He wouldn't have as many opportunities as piano, and it won't teach him to read music as well (even classical, that would only teach him one clef).
Then in a few years, he can learn band or orchestra instruments at school. Clarinet is super versatile (fingerings and technique transfer to other instruments), piano will prepare him well for percussion, too (they play a ton of mallet instruments in school).
Find the book Farkle McBride, by the way, sounds perfect for your little one!!   |
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2boysandwill
My turn to hit the PEAnata!!!
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 | Posted: 11/26/2012 12:00:44 PM
I was going to say piano followed by smaller guitar too!
flute is also a good starting point
I really enjoyed the piano though | |
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Captain K
AncestralPea
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 | Posted: 11/26/2012 12:01:23 PM
Since he has already had toy instruments and you are planning to give him lessons, I would also suggest piano. | |
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busypea
boring + nerdy
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:04:14 PM
I took piano lessons for years - starting in about first grade. I think he would like piano, but I have a hard time imagining his little fingers being able to play!
We don't have a piano, though, and really don't have a place to put one in this house. I can't believe I'm even going to ask this, but would some kind of electric keyboard be a reasonable substitute when learning or is the keyfeel just too different?
I do definitely agree about the benefits of learning to read music. I played clarinet in band 5th - 12th grade and it was so helpful for me to already know how to read music when learning a new instrument. | |
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sportymom
BucketHead
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 | Posted: 11/26/2012 12:04:20 PM
Totally agree with piano. That's how we started out our kids and now at ages 12, 14, and 16 they can play a lot of instruments. Clarinet, bassoon, sax, piano, bass, drums, flute, etc.
SM | |
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:04:20 PM
I recommend piano. Piano will teach him to read both treble and bass clefs and is so versatile. In the music world, it will be very useful, too-
As a student of music and nothing more, ITA with this. I started piano when I was 5.
I have to disagree on flute. I started when I was 10 and I think the fingers will too small to stretch to what he will need to. But that's just my opinion. |
OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.
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VexedAngel
Cold Pea on a Cracked Plate
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:14:16 PM
I know some purists may not agree, and I understand why, but I think a good quality (ie it needs touch sensitivity and weighted keys at a minimum) keyboard or clavinova would be fine. And you could keep your eyes open for a used piano (spinets are small, we had one in our one bedroom apt for years).
(and seriously check the book Farkle McBride out from the library, it's just a children's book, super cute ) |
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:16:27 PM
Another vote for piano.
We don't have a piano, though, and really don't have a place to put one in this house. I can't believe I'm even going to ask this, but would some kind of electric keyboard be a reasonable substitute when learning or is the keyfeel just too different?
I do understand this. And a piano is a HUGE investment, in space and money. Some teachers won't even take you on as a student if you don't have a real piano because the keyfeel IS different on a cheap keyboard or synthesizer than on a real piano. However, we were in Guitar Center on Saturday, and there was an electronic piano that had touch sensitive keys and was about $220. IIRC, it had a full 88 key keyboard, which also becomes an issue with electronic instruments that may have only 5 or 6 octaves once your child moves to more advanced pieces.
I personally think that if a full piano is not an option at this time, a touch sensitive keyboard instrument is a reasonable alternative. And much better (IMHO) to have an electronic keyboard with accurate sound than a cheap beater piano that either can't be tuned or you don't want to pay for tuning.
I have a friend who has 4 kids and had the piano teacher coming to the house for lessons, so her kids never heard an in-tune piano (makes me question the sensibilities of that teacher, but I know the piano teacher biz is tough these days). Her piano is so out of tune that when her daughter played a properly tuned piano one day she cried because it didn't sound right.
Okay, tangent over. I have very strong feelings that a piano is an ideal first instrument for the training and music theory it provides as a foundation to learn other instruments.
If he's that into music, don't hesitate to add on another instrument in a year or two if he's doing well with piano. BTW, if he develops a passion for drums, there are excellent electronic (read, headphone capable) drum sets available now that won't fill up your livingroom or make you a pariah in the neighborhood.
Usually schools start band instruments in 4th grade, so he can add those on. We have a kid in our marching band who plays pretty much anything you blow into, and he's played at Carnegie Hall (at age 15). |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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bizzymumma
I sense impending mayhem.
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:21:24 PM
How about violin? DH and all his cousins played violin starting from around age 3-4. They had their own little orchestra and played in church and community events. DH was even the BC Champion at around age 12!
Violin is easy for little fingers, unlike guitar or flute, is so easily portable, and doesn't need a lot of room like a piano.
There is nothing cuter than a little boy eeking out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on a violin! |
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Laurie
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busypea
boring + nerdy
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October 2002
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:21:28 PM
Well, it sounds like piano it is. I think I will start searching for an instructor and seek their advice on what would be an appropriate electronic piano for starting out.
If it's something he sticks with long-term, we certainly could accommodate a piano in the house. However, we're not inclined to shuffle everything around and spend that much money when he's just starting out. | |
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Nightowl scrapper
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:28:35 PM
If it's something he sticks with long-term, we certainly could accommodate a piano in the house. However, we're not inclined to shuffle everything around and spend that much money when he's just starting out.
Definitely understand that. A piano is an investment, and they do have to be tuned, frequency depending on location and use, but usually once a year. Our tuner charges $110.
If you do look at getting a piano down the road, talk to a tuner (your piano teacher will recommend a good one). They often restore pianos and throw in so many years of free tuning. You are unlikely, therefore, to get an instrument that cannot be tuned or hold a tune, which can be a problem with a piano you pick up cheap at a garage sale. We have a 1930's piano that we bought from the original owner and it is quite well made, much more so than instruments of more recent vintage.
But for now, a couple of hundred dollars investment in a decent keyboard with piano key action is, imo, a good choice for a 5yo.
Oh, and while we're talking about tuning, if you get him a guitar for his next instrument, get a 'real' one at a music store, not one from Toys R Us or an educational store. The toy guitars, no matter how 'real' they look, will generally not hold a tune. The 3/4 size instruments from a music store are good quality and not that expensive, and you can sell it when he outgrows it. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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megmc
AncestralPea
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:35:10 PM
pots and pans?
but if you have to The piano. I bought a very nice electric keyboard at cost-co. It is very nice a for beginning, and I even have fun with it.
An Bizzy...I can think of a thousand things cuter than a 5 y/o on the violin. Violin can wait until he can master bow control. | |
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megmc
AncestralPea
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:35:13 PM
pots and pans?
but if you have to The piano. I bought a very nice electric keyboard at cost-co. It is very nice a for beginning, and I even have fun with it.
An Bizzy...I can think of a thousand things cuter than a 5 y/o on the violin. Violin can wait until he can master bow control. | |
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busypea
boring + nerdy
PeaNut 52,817
October 2002
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:35:51 PM
We had a very nice piano, faithfully maintained, when I was growing up. The sound was  Unfortunately, my parents finally sold it about 5 years ago, after many years of being unused (though still properly maintained) at their house. They offered it to us then, but we lived somewhere else then and literally had no place for it (plus I don't play at all anymore and piano is not DH's instrument). Boo.
If/when we decide to invest in one, we'll definitely go with quality and take care of it appropriately. Out of tune pianos are painful! | |
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Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:42:20 PM
For that age, violin or piano.
ETA*
Any that you would recommend avoiding?
Wind or brass. Until his mouth and facial muscles are more developed, I would avoid anything that requires a specific embouchure. |
Jo Mama
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Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight. - Bruce Cockburn
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 12:45:33 PM
pots and pans?
Oh, no. At age 5 you want something that is headphone ready  |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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MergeLeft
Typical Liberal
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:14:53 PM
VexedAngel, do you find that teachers in your area will take piano students as young as 4? It's been my experience that they won't take them until they're able to read well and are old enough to maintain focus through a 30-minute lesson. The exception is Suzuki, of course, which will start them as young as three, but I haven't seen that mentioned here.
I have a lot of kinder parents here ask me about piano lessons because they say that the area teachers won't take them until they can read well and sit and focus for 30 minutes. The age of preference is more like six or seven.
Pedagogically speaking, IMO, at age four the primary focus should be on beat motion, understanding high/low, loud/soft, same/different, long/short, etc. The best instrument for young kids is the voice - they should be learning to use their head voice, match pitch, sing with a light, clear tone, etc. I recognize that opinions vary in the field as they do in any field, but I've never heard anyone other than Suzuki teachers recommend instrument lessons at all for a child as young as four.
If you must have an instrument, a lot of kids that young lack the fine motor skills for piano. I'd focus more on instruments that use gross motor action like drums and xylophones. I know it's hard on the ears, but all my training says that it's more developmentally appropriate. And forget lessons until he's old enough to actually focus through a 30-minute lesson. Enroll him in a group activity like Gymboree or Kindermusik instead, or find a studio that does group music activites for preschoolers.
(PK-5 music teacher with a lot of hours of Kodaly and early childhood training under my belt.)
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Nightowl scrapper
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:30:40 PM
MergeLeft, you bring up some good points. My kids took Musikgarten classes as preschoolers (about age 3) and my older son, who was plinking around on our piano from about age 18 months, started the Musikgarten Keyboard class in January of the year he turned 5 in April. They taught playing by ear, then reading music. And he was a kid we held back from kindergarten because he wouldn't sit still. But he would sit for music. I remember one time when he was 2 and we were hurrying through Christmas shopping because he was so hyper (later diagnosed as ADHD, but we thought he was just a typical 2yo). There was a choir giving a performance in one of the main areas of the mall. He sat down and watched them, totally transfixed, for 30 solid minutes without so much as shifting his legs.
As a teenager, band is his life, so maybe he's just a kid that is the exception in that his love for music overrode what normal developmental milestones would indicate, that he was too young to start music when he did.
Probably with most kids early music lessons don't work out quite that well, as I have heard the 'wait till they can read and sit for 30 minutes' guideline as well. Since he didn't sit still for 30 minutes for anything BUT music until he was about 9, I'm glad his teacher didn't have that policy. But you do make a good point, and a valid caution that many kids might need to start with something other than formal private lessons, and the OP should be prepared to back down or delay if her ds doesn't show the enthusiasm and drive to cooperate when starting at this age. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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busypea
boring + nerdy
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October 2002
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:35:43 PM
I am 100% certain he has the ability and desire to focus on a 30 minute lesson (and practicing). However, I'm less certain about the fine motor skills portion of the equation.
I really appreciate all the information - you are giving us a lot to think about
ETA: They do Kindermusik at his school and he has been frustrated by it. He recently asked if he could do the dance class instead because the other kids just mess around in Kindermusik and he wants to learn to actually play the instruments. | |
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Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:38:50 PM
Nightowl, that just warms my heart! I had a tot that lived for music. On his letter of recommendation for his current choir, his school music teacher said that he was dictating music since Kindergarten and that he had written music to go with a rhythm rhyme that she still uses for all of her classes.
He's 13 now and is auditioning for an exclusive voice programme for high school. |
Jo Mama
***********************************
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight. - Bruce Cockburn
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:39:05 PM
Maybe, if you can line up a teacher who would be willing to give it a try, you could have him sit with him/her and see how it goes - just as a fun afternoon with a piano, before you commit to lessons or an instrument. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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busypea
boring + nerdy
PeaNut 52,817
October 2002
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:41:21 PM
That sounds like a great idea, Nightowl. And I too love the story of your son Kids who adore music just make me happy | |
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alisatj
PeaFixture
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 1:42:50 PM
I am one of those piano teachers who requires good readers and 'sit still for 30 minutes' . My experience has been that a child who starts at 5-6 and one who starts at 7-8 ends up at the same place around 9-10. What I'm saying is, it takes longer to get to the same point with a younger starter. So I honestly think that in most cases it's a waste of money to start too young.
Children of 5 or 6 also have very small hands and it's hard for them to use proper hand position.
(Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about the Suzuki method and don't teach it.)
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TREZmom
Lost and Found in Pea-land
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 2:01:36 PM
My DS has been playing piano since he was 5. He loves it! | |
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megmc
AncestralPea
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 2:35:44 PM
As a child who started piano at 4. Find a teacher who excels in FUN!
I spent my hour yes hour with pencils on my knuckles , and sitting straight up on a hard bench and learning nothing by scales. Lets not forget the hours of practice at home.
Then on to the violin at 7....
I quit at 17, had enough of both.
At 5 he needs fun, and to learn actual songs/chords. | |
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Zanette McCoy
PeaNut
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 | Posted: 11/26/2012 5:54:05 PM
Piano or the recorder |
Zanette McCoy
http://zanettemccoy.blogspot.com | |
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Kate-pea
StuckOnPeas
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 8:05:57 PM
What a way to bring us music teachers out of the woodwork!
IMHO, the choice of instrument is far less important than finding a teacher who *really* knows how to teach young children.
A real Suzuki teacher might be a good place to start - it's a commitment on the parents' part, too, just be forewarned!
Guitar and piano have the advantage of teaching "vertical" (harmonic) hearing, while violin and cello really help train the ear (the player has to tune each note as they go along, unlike on a keyboard or fretted instrument).
A trial lesson or two is a must. Practicing with your young child is a must. Depending on the situation, a 15- or 20-minute lesson time might be a good option.
I believe a real piano is a better option than a keyboard or even a "digital piano." They just feel different, and they respond differently. I'm all for Craigslist pianos - my experience has been wonderful with them - just keep 'em tuned.
My littler ones started at 3 on the violin, with a teacher who knew her stuff. Could they be at the same level of playing now if they'd started a couple of years later? Probably. But they were both quite insistent, and I love that being violinists is part of their identity. They had rich musical experiences at home (and school, thankyouverymuch!), so there weren't many gaps that needed filling...
Let us know how it all plays out! |
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hergie
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 9:05:35 PM
Ask around and find a teacher that does take smaller children! I usually start kids around age 7, BUT I will start younger kids who are asking to learn an instrument! If the child really wants to learn, they can have a ton of fun doing it, but if the parent is forcing it, it is too young.
There are a couple of piano series that are geared toward younger kids. One is My First Piano Adventures and another is Piano Party There may be others, but those are two that I can think of off the top of my head.
Good luck!! | |
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VexedAngel
Cold Pea on a Cracked Plate
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 9:21:11 PM
Merge, we have a lot of Orff support in our area (I'm a level one), and with the specialized training of music therapists, yes, a few would. I have used My First Piano Adventure by Nancy and Randall Faber with great success, although admittedly, not with a boy that age. It incorporates a lot of game play and is definitely not a 'sit still for 30 min' method (heck, they get to knock out rhythms on the piano--not the keys, anywhere else actually, etc ).
I have a lot of tricks in my basket because of my varied training, and I agree with the sentiment that finding a good teacher is more important than the instrument at this point.
I personally would take him on a trial basis. I would never turn down a child interested in music (unless on hiatus from lessons like currently ). But I do always do 1-3 assessment sessions before committing. |
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*Delphinium Twinkle*
I'm just a pea:)
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 9:35:58 PM
Piano or violin
Both are excellent first instruments |
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pennyring
Thrift Ninja
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| Posted: 11/26/2012 9:39:46 PM
I was going to say piano too. That's what I started on when I was 5.
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{Betsy}
Creative Dreamer
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