"Photos capture man with a rifle shopping at JCPenney"---should this be legal?
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 1/19/2013 by scrappower in NSBR Board
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scrappower
Allons-y Alonso

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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:46:51 AM
I am just wondering if people are okay with this? I have a hard time with thinking that this should be "okay" honestly. Seems like an accident waiting to happen and honestly just like posturing to me. I am honestly surprised no one called the police, I probably would have.





RIVERDALE, Utah--Facebook photos of a man armed with a rifle shopping at a Riverdale JCPenney have gone viral.

Cindy Yorgason says she was speechless when she first saw the man, identified as 22-year-old Joseph Kelley, standing calmly at the counter at a local JCPenney armed with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung across his back.

Yorgason, a mechanical engineer and 30-year Utah resident, says she's not anti-gun, but thinks the statement Kelley was making was inappropriate.

"Utah is an open carry state, he has every right to carry it. But how inappropriate to carry as assault rifle in a department store. To me that's just wrong," she said. "It was obvious to me that this gentleman was making a statement but there are other ways to do it."

She posted the photos on Facebook and they spread from just a few friends to millions of people across the Internet in just a matter of hours, and is now making headlines.

"And I've now gotten a call from the Associated Press, so it's still growing and it's just amazing," Yorgason said.

The photos have gotten a mixed reaction, some agreeing with Yorgason that Kelley's actions were in poor taste while others support him and his decision to exercise his second amendment rights.

Yorgason says one of her biggest concerns that day was what would have happened if another gun carry permit holder had been at the store, thought Kelley was a bad guy, then tried to confront him at gunpoint.

Weber Area Dispatch said Kelley called them on Wednesday to let them know he was planning to carry his weapons in public.

Lt. James Ebert says he's aware of the firestorm the photos stirred up on Facebook, but he hasn't heard much about it from people shopping in the store.

"We've had no calls from any individuals that were actually at the store, including customers and staff. Social media has kind of driven this story," he said.

While openly carrying weapons is legal, many businesses have their own policies against it.

Store officials are now saying they're looking into the incident. They haven't released their official policy regarding guns in the store.


http://fox13now.com/2013/01/17/photos-capture-man-with-a-rifle-shopping-at-jcpenney/




lovetodigi
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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:54:19 AM
People like that should really be tested to see if they are mentally stable to have a gun. Why carry such a big gun instead of a pistol in his pocket? I have no problem with a person carrying a small pistol, but that is ridiculous.




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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:54:32 AM
just no necessary. there is NO FREAKING REASON to carry a mother$%%^ing assault rifle to a store. this is just stupid now, really. and honestly, he's just making himself a bigger TARGET. does he honestly think if someone's coming in to rob the store or whatever that they're not going to target the guy with the big freakin' rifle FIRST?

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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:56:43 AM
Ridiculous.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:58:08 AM
This guy is a moron who is liable to get someone killed trying to make his point. And is hurting the gun lobby far more than he is helping. No one with this little common sense should be carrying anywhere. Is it loaded? Is the safety on? He certainly isn't carrying muzzle-down, which is how you should carry a rifle. It appears to be pointed at the person next to him.

I know nothing about the open carry laws in Utah, but this is ridiculous. Most of my family have concealed carry licenses, but there are limitations on the weapons they can carry, they must attend training, and the weapons must be concealed--duh.

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Posted: 1/19/2013 9:58:57 AM
Reckless.


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mkatiej
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:01:58 AM
What a freaking attention hog. He is clearly making a statement and looking for the attention. SO inappropriate!!

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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:02:58 AM

Seems like ... posturing to me.


To me as well.








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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:09:18 AM
SMH

MoniqueS
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:11:52 AM
I agree - attention whore. He needs a hobby.


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Sharna_G
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:18:09 AM

He needs a hobby.



Apparently, he has one.


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KikiNichole

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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:18:28 AM

It doesn't make me angry


How can that picture NOT make you angry?

Because it brings a level of anger to me that I'm not even comfortable feeling.

I would A)get myself and my children out of his immediate area and B )I would call 911.

He is a flipping perfect example of what is so scary to me about conceal and carry. Because no rational, sane, intelligent, thoughtful, well balanced, educated, concerned citizen would walk into a shopping mall with THAT strapped over his shoulder.

The only good news? Is is his instability and egocentricity are blatant...and easy for me to remove myself from.

Not getting angry over that? I don't see how even the most reasonable gun owner and proponent of gun rights could NOT be angry over that.

That should make all of us angry. And terrified.


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Katybee
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:19:19 AM
Granted...I'm not a big gun person...but wouldn't it be super easy for a bad guy to grab the gun and shoot him in the back? Unless it's not loaded, and then what's the point?

So yeah...I would like to add IQ Test to background check as a requirement for owning a gun.




Sarah*H
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:20:57 AM
My assumptions:

a) small penis; or
b ) personality disorder



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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:40:41 AM
But don't we agree that is not responsible gun ownership, Mrs T? Using your weapon to deliberately antagonize - in a public place?

That he has the right to does not make it in the least appropriate.


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scrappower
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:41:14 AM

He's most likely carrying it to piss off people who share your interpretation if guns and if that's the case, he has succeeded.


I think we all have our own "interpretation". But one thing should be clear, this man is NOT a responsible gun owner. Especially for doing this to "prove a point".



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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:44:30 AM

It makes me think he's overreacting to other people's overreaction. He's most likely carrying it to piss off people who share your interpretation if guns and if that's the case, he has succeeded.

Agreed
He can.
But I don't think he should. His point is being lost.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:46:39 AM

I believe he has the right to own that gun and if he was truly scared for his safety shopping at JC Penney,


Afraid for his safety while shopping at Penny's? Seriously? If he's afraid for his safety at Penny's, maybe he should patronize Kohl's instead.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:55:10 AM
While I think that it's people like that that make the rest of legal gun owners look bad and will be the cause of us losing rights, I have to disagree with this.


Afraid for his safety while shopping at Penny's? Seriously?


Given that there have been several mass shootings at shopping malls, I don't think safety is to be taken lightly anywhere, even at the mall.

I doubt safety is his reason for the obvious display of gunpower, but I don't have a problem with open or concealed carry in general.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:57:04 AM
That should never be legal.

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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:57:30 AM

"Utah is an open carry state, he has every right to carry it.


Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I would have called 911. I think he's being a pompous asshole trying to 'prove his point'.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:58:24 AM

Given that there have been several mass shootings at shopping malls, I don't think safety is to be taken lightly anywhere, even at the mall.


While I agree, everyone bringing their AR-15's shopping won't solve the problem. If you're afraid to go to the mall, don't go.


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lovetodigi
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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:58:51 AM

He's most likely carrying it to piss off people who share your interpretation if guns and if that's the case, he has succeeded.

What he has succeeded at, is convincing the people that are pushing for gun control to push even harder, and even pick up more supporters along the way. He is the one with something to lose by trying to make "a Point". If he is that afraid to shop at Penny's he should just go home, get in his bunker and stay there, or even better check into a mental hospital to get help for his irrational fears.

ETA: Sure there have been shootings at malls, but the percentage when compared to the number of malls in the country, is small. People walking around with guns strapped to their backs at malls sure will make people feel saver. Wrong. All it does is allow anyone with a plan to kill, to walk into the mall without being stopped or questioned and then carrying on with whatever attack they planned to do. Really smart.




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Posted: 1/19/2013 10:59:09 AM

While I think that it's people like that that make the rest of legal gun owners look bad and will be the cause of us losing rights


Yep.


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I-95
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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:01:01 AM

I do understand why some people would be afraid seeing someone carrying any weapon, let alone something like the rifle he's got. But it doesn't make me angry.


It should pretty much anger any normal person, especially a mother, and a teacher of young children. It should make you angry as a gun owner, that this moron would choose a venue like JCP to make his personal statement about the right to carry.

It is legal to carry like that in Florida too, but I'm pretty sure if he showed up in a JCP down here, a bunch of responsible fathers would beat the crap out of him for being so stupid. Responsible gun owners teach their children to respect their weapons, not use them to frighten shoppers in a local store.

I have zero respect for a gun owner who chooses this as their method of protest, and zero respect for anyone who condones it.

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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:01:42 AM
You have got to be kidding me.

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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:02:20 AM

maybe he should patronize Kohl's instead.


Ha! Less than a week after the January shooting here in Tucson, I was working at Kohl's when a young guy came in with his big ass gun strapped to his side.

He looked like a jerk just standing there with his arms crossed. His girlfriend/wife was buying slippers and he just seemed so out of place.



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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:02:39 AM
I would've run screaming from the mall while calling 911. This man puts himself, those around him and law enforcement in jeopardy with his ridiculous "statement." How in the world does anyone know he's not a raving lunatic ready to shoot up the mall?




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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:03:08 AM
The only place I have ever seen a weapon like that up close and personal has been in some international airports abroad, and even though they were in the hands of trained professionals in military garb they still freaked me out. If I saw that guy in person I'd be hiding under the clothing racks.

I really can't picture this scene in Bloomingdale's. Guess that's where I'll shop.



julieberg
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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:07:15 AM


It is ridiculous and what a ridiculous law!! I would have left the store immediately. Yes, small penis and a small brain.

mtomseth
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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:26:18 AM
No,open carry of an assault rifle should not be legal. I also think those types of weapons should be banned. If I see someone walking around with a gun strapped to their back I am dialing
911.

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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:30:49 AM
I'm going with the small penis answer and like Peabay, would probably force him to explain his position to the police that I just called on my cell phone.






JenAllyson
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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:33:58 AM
I just don't have words. Only sadness that anyone would condone this. Imagine if your young child ran ahead of you and you looked up to see him reaching for this man's "super cool gun!" Would you feel like it was so great then? What if he touched it, the man reacted without thinking and turned around and shot? All in a split second? And then a handful of cc think he's a bad guy - try to take him out with their handguns and end up shooting all the people at the cash wrap. Still think its just dandy?

I think a show like this - a law like this just allows the bad guys to get closer to their target before being taken out. No wonder many businesses (and schools/theaters) are no-gun zones. To keep people like this guy from coming in.


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melanell
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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:00:53 PM
I think he's an idiot. And an irresponsible gun owner.

A stunt like that is a nice way to invite trouble. And when you invite trouble in a crowded place while at least one individual is carrying a powerful weapon, things can get ugly.







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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:09:55 PM

He's most likely carrying it to piss off people who share your interpretation if guns and if that's the case, he has succeeded.
What a responsible gun owner too.

Regardless of his reasoning, whatever point he's trying to make, I'd say he's not furthering his cause with it.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:13:28 PM

He's most likely carrying it to piss off people who share your interpretation if guns and if that's the case, he has succeeded


I don't think I'd risk hanging around to find out his reasons. It's known now that he was making a statement but no one knew at that particular time what his motives were. He could have so easily have turned round and used it!


Would you feel the same if this man came to your school carrying that weapon to have a chat about his child's academic progress?





Casii
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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:16:42 PM
My first response would've been to start running. My second would've been to dial 911. Seriously, I would've had a little freak out going on.

And yet another vote for worlds smallest penis.


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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:16:50 PM
Ugh. What an idiot. Obviously, he's trying to make a point, but it would have the exact opposite affect on me if I ran into him. How is the general public supposed to know he's a "good guy"? I would have assumed he was going to take us all down if I ran into him. Ugh.




KikiNichole

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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:25:21 PM
I'm curious what my 'interpretation of guns' is...

that shopping at the local Piggly Wiggly with a semi automatic rifle slung over your shoulder is a ridiculous display of irresponsibility? Then hell yes, that's my interpretation.

He's about as helpful to his cause as the pro lifers who kill doctors are to theirs.



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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:26:31 PM
My first thought was that he must have a very small penis. And if he's afraid to go in Penney's, maybe he should try JCP.com from the comfort of his own armory...er, I mean home.



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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:40:09 PM
This happened in "my" JCPenney's store. We had our family pictures taken there last Spring, and just to note, it is NOT in a mall. It is more in a cluster of other stores, a strip mall if anything. I guess my point is more of a destination store than just wander in store.

Having said that, while I realize it is legal, it would still prompt a gut reaction of "run like hell" in me - BUT - I don't get that same reaction if I see a handgun on someone's hip. I am not saying it is a logical reaction, just my gut reaction.



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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:43:41 PM
How does a person know if a guy carrying a gun like that has a legal right to do it?


Susan



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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:52:15 PM
I don't want to live in a world where people feel the need to carry that much firepower to the local JCP.



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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:57:20 PM

How does a person know if a guy carrying a gun like that has a legal right to do it?


If your average Jane/Joe citizen are up to speed on the gun laws in their State, then one would imagine that the other citizens, shopping at the store, would know it was legal. In fact, dialing 911 would probably not get the cops to do more than tell you it's legal and they can't do anything about it, unless he points it at you.

...at least that's what happened when DD and I were driving down the street, not long after moving to Florida. She said 'Mom, that guy's got a gun'. I looked and three teenage thugs where walking down the street, one with a rifle tossed over his shoulder. I dialed 911 and told the operator...the first question she asked was 'Is he threatening you with it?' Ummm, no, but he's walking down a public street with it....and she actually said 'You're not from around here are you?' That's when I found out it's legal to do that in Florida. Still doesn't make me feel safe!!

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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:59:47 PM

would probably force him to explain his position to the police that I just called on my cell phone.




Force him to explain what to the police? That he has a legal right to carry it in that state?

Legal and moral aren't necessarily the same thing.

Much as the religious right don't have a right to drag a girl to the police department and force her to explain why she got an abortion, you (global you) don't have the right to force someone to explain to police why they are carrying a weapon in a way that is allowed by the law.




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Burning Feather
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Posted: 1/19/2013 1:18:57 PM
Ironically, this just came up in my FB feed for a radio station that I listen to.

You know - because shopping at the mall or at a store isn't scary.

Woman with infant stabbed while at BBB.


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jodster70
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Posted: 1/19/2013 1:29:07 PM

Legal and moral aren't necessarily the same thing.

Much as the religious right don't have a right to drag a girl to the police department and force her to explain why she got an abortion, you (global you) don't have the right to force someone to explain to police why they are carrying a weapon in a way that is allowed by the law.



Yep. Completely agree.


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wren*walk
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Posted: 1/19/2013 1:39:03 PM
I'm shocked that anybody thinks this is ok. Well, perhaps shocked is the wrong word around here.

First of all, he is carrying that gun in a most unsafe manner. He needs a citatation for that alone.

NOS asked what people think 911 would do. Good question. Here's my opinion. Since they don't know the guy from Adam and only know he's wandering around the store with a gun strapped to his BACK (of all places) and so have no way of knowing if he is a legal owner of said gun.....I'm pretty sure they'd have him on the ground in no time. And rightly so. Does that answer your question?

This type of incident is where the gun lobby infringes on the rights of others. Their rights do not usurp other peoples' rights.






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Posted: 1/19/2013 1:39:07 PM

would probably force him to explain his position to the police that I just called on my cell phone.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Force him to explain what to the police? That he has a legal right to carry it in that state?



Yep, just to annoy the shit out of him that someone would call the cops.





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Loc: Follow the Yellow Brick Road

Posted: 1/19/2013 1:40:04 PM

I'm dying to hear what someone thinks dialing 911 on the guy in a state where his action is completely legal will do.



Okay. I'll admit, the idea is so foreign to me I couldn't even imagine NOT dialing 911 as an immediate reaction. So, I'm wrong. If it's legal, it's legal.

But let's get to the crux of the matter: do you feel that it SHOULD be legal? And I'm not talking about conceal and carry...though if you asked, I'd also admit that I'm on the fence about how I feel about that...but about the right to have an assault rifle slung casually over your shoulder with the same ease as a purse is carried.

I want to know, your right to carry aside, if you feel that THIS is a reasonable display of responsible gun ownership.

And by the way, I'm really tired of hearing that I'm reacting with hysteria because I feel strongly that this should be illegal.

Were nonsmokers reacting with hysteria when they decided that the second hand smoke of someone else infringed on their safety and well being?

Finding something absolutely undesirable to the point that you feel you need to protect yourself from it is hardly hysteria.


~Kristen~
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