wdyt: healthy child not schooled

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Posted 5/3/2013 by old pea new name in NSBR Board
 

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:13:41 PM
have you ever met a parent that DIDN"T school their child? By "didn't " I mean that they point blank said they didn't tutor, unschool, homeschool, or enroll to a virtual school and they DID send the child to school for a week here and there, but in all less than a 1/4 a year?

Because I actually know someone that is doing this , and I do KNOW(as much as possible without living with them) that they don't feel like schooling.

And I do know enough about them to know the child is not : autistic, cd, or battling a horrible disease. They did have a condition in the past that was still conducive to schooling.

I am aghast that they are telling people (besides me) they have too much going on to send the child to school, they'll start in fall.

I know the child's school and I know the counselor they are dealing with.

this is a teen that is illiterate and still not potty trained. I met them three years ago.


ETA: I know it's truancy and against the law but nothing's done. CPS was contacted by several people.

sammi71
AncestralPea

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:16:27 PM
I know the most important issue is the education, but I just can't quite get my head around you saying this is a teen who is not potty trained.

BudgetMama
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:18:35 PM

this is a teen that is illiterate and still not potty trained. I met them three years ago.



I was geared up to say "it depends on their age, not every 4, 5, or 6 year old HAS to be in school". But then I got to your last line there and really really think you need to call Children's Services. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong in that household!

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:19:29 PM
the child had a condition and the parents kept the child in diapers. That is 100% true. Child would say "hang on, I'm peeing" etc. Yes. It is sick and very sad. People have tried to do something. Parents have been talked to, counseled, etc. People donated many items to help the family. It's just so sad to see someone my kid's age with the skills of a five year old.

I don't know why parents are allowed to get away with this. the child is mobile, can talk, doesn't need special accomodations, etc. It's just bizarre.

ETA: I've called the local police about the laws and they said if the parent claims medical condition (which no longer exists) they don't have to school.

I've called CPS twice and never got a call back. I have a friend that's called. Four calls and nothing's happened.

the child is 4 years below grade level in school.

Knotlazy
PeaFixture

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:19:38 PM

I know the most important issue is the education, but I just can't quite get my head around you saying this is a teen who is not potty trained.


There must be something wrong in their household. I can't imagine this either.

Does he use diapers? Are you sure he isn't autistic, just maybe not diagnosed?

ETA...I see your later post....obviously issues in that home. Very sad.

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:22:11 PM
No, they're not autistic. They can go to parks, concerts, restraunts, sporting events , etc. but not school. It's is so infuriating. This kid will be an adult with NO skills.

RST
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:31:19 PM
Do you know for a fact that the school this child would attend will accept a child in a diaper?

I have a middle schooler who requires total care due to profound cerebral palsy. He's capable of being included in a regular classroom. However, the need for full toileting supports in a middle school is extremely difficult to navigate. IF in fact your acquaintance's child is not toilet trained, that's a barrier to attending school.

Sounds like the authorities have been notified, and at this point, unless you're going to volunteer to educate or take bathroom shift at the school, there's not much productive that you can contribute.

RST


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AncestralPea

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:34:58 PM
You don't know that CPS hasn't done anything. They may be currently involved. Clearly, with a teen in diapers, there's more going on with the child and the family than you know about.

You've done what you can.

gryroagain
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:37:16 PM


I am having a hard time understanding a teen without a medical condition in diapers, attending school sometimes (?), and authorities are aware and nothing is done. Frankly, your post makes little sense. If you send your child to school, they expect them to return every day, you can't just decide not to send them. So how could that happen?

Unless the condition that means the child is not continent is the reason, in which case they ought to have a home teacher, be home schooled, or otherwise on someones radar and it's odd they are not. Unbelievable, actually.

I'm just confused.

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:38:54 PM
They are in special ed and yes they are able to attend. They are not dealing with CF, CP, cognitive impairment. It's a result of falling through cracks, people not knowing the law, the school not knowing the backstory, etc.

The parents shared backstory and info with many people. People finally got worried enough to check in with schools, protective services, etc.
I know that I called a month ago and the child still isn't in school.

Things move slowly evidently.

twinsmom-fla99
AncestralPea

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:41:19 PM

Do you know for a fact that the school this child would attend will accept a child in a diaper?

I have a middle schooler who requires total care due to profound cerebral palsy. He's capable of being included in a regular classroom. However, the need for full toileting supports in a middle school is extremely difficult to navigate. IF in fact your acquaintance's child is not toilet trained, that's a barrier to attending school.

Sounds like the authorities have been notified, and at this point, unless you're going to volunteer to educate or take bathroom shift at the school, there's not much productive that you can contribute.

Whether or not the school accepts a child who is in a diaper is irrelevant. If a child has a medical condition that prohibits regular school attendance, the school is still responsible for providing an education, either through homebound services or through special programs.


I've called the local police about the laws and they said if the parent claims medical condition (which no longer exists) they don't have to school.
You are calling the wrong authorities. This is not a police "truancy" matter. This is a matter for CPS because these parents are not providing for this child. Education is a "need" just as much as food and shelter. If parents were denying food and shelter to a child, there is no doubt CPS would step in. I have no doubt that CPS would get involved in this matter. I've seen them get involved when a child is tardy on a regular basis.

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:43:01 PM
gyroagain,

It is crazy. The child was very ill for years. However, others in the same situation sent their kids to school. the law states the parents had authority to keep the kid home so they did.

Years pass and the family joins a support group. Months pass and the story comes out: had a tutor and the tutor quit coming, went to school for a few months and withdrew for "health issues", etc.

People started questioning things and that is where we are at present. The school was told the child was too sick to attend. The child was not in fact too sick to attend. the child reenrolled in winter and again is not attending on a regular basis.

Yes, cps knows. Medical professionals know. Parents have some autonomy and it appears that this family is abusing it.

It sounds too crazy to be real and that's the sad part. It is real and people are trying to help but nothing is apparently being done.

And again, I know this information because the parents openly shared the child is not schooled.

old pea new name
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:44:02 PM
I have called CPS, twice. .

gryroagain
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:50:26 PM
Wow.Sounds like one of the "fall through the cracks" horror stories you read on the news.

Why won't CPS do anything?! Do the parents claim to be home schooling? Can the child advocate for himself at all, ie, tell CPS what is going on? Does he even realize how much his future is compromised?

I can't imagine seeing the situation and being unable to help.

Just T
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:53:59 PM
I can't wrap my brain around a teen, who doesn't have a medical condition, who isn't potty trained. WTH?? Why is the teen NOT potty trained?

Sarah*H
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Posted: 5/3/2013 5:57:21 PM
I think... if the authorities know and the school knows and CPS knows and the kid's doctor knows and no one has done anything about it, then there is probably additional information of which you have not been made aware, despite your assurances to the contrary.



scrappower
Allons-y Alonso

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Posted: 5/3/2013 5:58:47 PM

I think... if the authorities know and the school knows and CPS knows and the kids' doctor knows and no one has done anything about it, then there is probably additional information of which you have not been made aware, despite your assurances to the contrary.


Ditto.



BethAnneM
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Posted: 5/3/2013 6:02:58 PM
Do you make this shit up just to get a Pea rise?

First you say the teen has no issues but then you say the kid was very ill for many years. Scratching my head here.



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Posted: 5/3/2013 6:07:03 PM

I think... if the authorities know and the school knows and CPS knows and the kid's doctor knows and no one has done anything about it, then there is probably additional information of which you have not been made aware, despite your assurances to the contrary.


This.




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Posted: 5/3/2013 6:17:40 PM
Unless these people are intimately close with you, I'm not sure why they would share their most personal information?

I'm not sure I believe you know what you think you know. Often it's more than what meets the eye and they may just not want you to know the details so they may prefer you to think this sad version rather than the reality of their situation which may actually be much worse.

It's not your business. There are authorities that oversee this sort of thing. Clearly there is something going on with this family.

ETA: I didn't read all the way down. What Sarah said.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




CarolT
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Posted: 5/3/2013 6:21:33 PM
If CPS has been called repeatedly, by you and others, I would imagine they've looked into it and taken action deemed apropriate. Just because you haven't been informed by CPS of their action or received a call back, don't assume nothing has happened. I've called CPS several times over the years (as a nurse and as a teacher). I've only been called back when more info was needed. I've never had them call me back to tell me the results of their investigation.

And I would be very willing to bet that you are not getting the whole story from the parents.


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Posted: 5/3/2013 6:52:29 PM
A teen who is illiterate and wears diapers has something very wrong with them, very wrong indeed. Also, that would put him way more than 4 years behind his peers. A normal teen could teach himself to read properly (and would want to do so), and certainly would not use diapers!

So this teen is NOT okay, and NOT healthy!

I'd say schooling is the least of the problems here.


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Posted: 5/3/2013 7:33:24 PM
"I have a middle schooler who requires total care due to profound cerebral palsy. He's capable of being included in a regular classroom. However, the need for full toileting supports in a middle school is extremely difficult to navigate. IF in fact your acquaintance's child is not toilet trained, that's a barrier to attending school"

The toileting issue is not enough to keep a child from school here.
We have special apparatuses in special restrooms for the kids to use with the help of a district supplied, specially trained aide.
I have personally seen these special restrooms and know exactly how they work in the middle schools and high schools
If your schools don't have them, they should be forced by the state to revamp one of their restrooms
Either way, clearly the OP does not know the whole story.
And... CPS owes you no explanation of what they've discovered in their investigation. In fact, for them to give you any info is a violation of the child's/family's privacy


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Posted: 5/3/2013 8:07:30 PM
What a sad situation! Just when I think I've heard it all, I read something like this, about a kid who has not beeen given the proper care and education he deserves. I can't believe that in a country that is supposed to be the most advanced and wealthy in the world, they would not have the support system available to a teen in this situation. I don't have any answers, but my thoughts and prayers go out to all concerned.

Epeanymous
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Posted: 5/3/2013 8:09:11 PM
If CPS has been contacted and the police have been contacted, I think you are done. Unless you are planning to invade.

RST
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Posted: 5/3/2013 10:40:37 PM

"I have a middle schooler who requires total care due to profound cerebral palsy. He's capable of being included in a regular classroom. However, the need for full toileting supports in a middle school is extremely difficult to navigate. IF in fact your acquaintance's child is not toilet trained, that's a barrier to attending school"

The toileting issue is not enough to keep a child from school here.
We have special apparatuses in special restrooms for the kids to use with the help of a district supplied, specially trained aide.
I have personally seen these special restrooms and know exactly how they work in the middle schools and high schools
If your schools don't have them, they should be forced by the state to revamp one of their restrooms


You misunderstood -- my son does in fact attend school in our neighborhood middle school, with a 1:1 para-educator to support his needs, including bathroom breaks. But it's not simple or a given; "special apparatuses" (in our case, that means a lift, a fold down changing table, two person bathroom break staffing, etc.) are challenging to implement. The wrong staff, or untrained staff, are actual dangers to the health and safety of kids with some conditions. I can think of quite a few scenarios where a family could legitimately withdraw a child who has health and developmental issues from school.

Homebound services in my experience are laughably bad. My son had a homebound tutor teacher during the 27 weeks of body cast and recovery period after his last major surgery. She was terrible. Her best ideas for a 5th grade boy (who has CP and vision impairment but is very close to on-level cognitively) all involved crayons and glitter glue. She talked in a babyish voice, she was almost always late, she was constantly sneaking out her cell phone to text, and she was just a misery. With tutors/educators liker her, there is a strong drive to just decline services.

You obviously are enjoying being outraged by this family, so carry on. But I'll go with the camp that says that there are often many more facets to the story, and if it's NYB, then back off.

RST


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PeaFixture

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Posted: 5/3/2013 10:44:16 PM
Sounds like a MYOB situation. It's nice that you are concerned but....obviously there is far more to the story.


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Posted: 5/4/2013 7:30:46 AM

A normal teen could teach himself to read properly (and would want to do so), and certainly would not use diapers!

So this teen is NOT okay, and NOT healthy!


That is not entirely true. Depending on the environment that this child is being raised in he could be suffering from some severe issues. It sounds like not being schooled is the least of his problems right now.

I worked as a caseworker for several years for homeless and runaway teens. I often had to work with CPS and they are a main part of the reason I left that job and that field entirely. There are way too many fall through the crack stories in this area. Many of the people I dealt with honestly just didn't seem to care. I think a lot of it comes down to wanting to help but their hands being tied by so many restrictions that after so long they just give up.

caroscraps
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:07:08 AM
There is always more to a story than what an outsider, *you*, would be privvy too.

Sure this story sounds awful but I'm 100% sure there is more going on than you know and will ever know.


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Gsquaredmom

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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:23:17 AM
I think you don't know the whole story.

It sounds like the school has been involved, CPS has been involved, and medical personnel have been involved. I don't know how you could do anyhing that they could not have done.

And yes, I have met several parents over the years who did not school their children for various reasons. They claimed to homeschool, but there is no official oversight in our state, so no one tracks homeschooled kids and what they do.



luvmythree
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:19:09 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a teenager that's illiterate and in diapers is definitely Simone with medical problems of some sort.

And the parents may haven't told you every single detail of their situation.


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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:54:28 PM
Something is very wrong.
I would call cps one more time and then let it go.
So very sad.

Miss Lerins Momma
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Posted: 5/4/2013 7:45:01 PM
I have a relative who's child (teen boy) is not in school. I would say he should be in high school, but I guess he dropped out and the parents could care less (or at least seem too). It boggles my mind that they would not make him go to school, but to each their own I guess. Not my kid, not my business or my problem.








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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:06:03 PM
When you say he was very ill for many years, what was actually wrong with him? Do you know? Does he have any friends? Does he ever leave the house? Is he normal mentally? Does he have any siblings? Do the parents work, have friends, etc? Are they part of a "non- mainstream" religion? Do they change the kid's diaper, or does he do it himself, can he bathe himself and do other self cares? Lots of questions, I know.


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Posted: 5/4/2013 11:35:57 PM
I am certain that you do not know the whole story.

There is a line between caring and being a busybody and you have absolutely crossed it.


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Posted: 5/5/2013 12:26:27 AM
A. You don't know the whole story.

B. Just because you haven't seen any action doesn't mean that CPS hasn't investigated.




petesmom
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Posted: 8/21/2013 5:48:12 PM
You've posted about this before. And was told before - "not your bidness". It's still not your business.

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Posted: 8/21/2013 6:29:24 PM


I think... if the authorities know and the school knows and CPS knows and the kid's doctor knows and no one has done anything about it, then there is probably additional information of which you have not been made aware, despite your assurances to the contrary.



This.^^^^



A. You don't know the whole story.

B. Just because you haven't seen any action doesn't mean that CPS hasn't investigated.


And this. ^^^^

Since you've done what you can it sounds like it's time to MYOB.



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lucyg819
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Posted: 8/21/2013 6:34:34 PM
I think someone bumped and deleted.

No need to rag on the OP again for the same old stuff. She probably didn't bring this up again.


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scrappower
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Posted: 8/21/2013 6:40:21 PM
The OP actually did bring it up in that thread about the murder in Oklahoma.

http://www.twopeasinabucket.com/mb.asp?cmd=display&forum_id=15&thread_id=3249718

Not sure if she bumped this though or not.



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Posted: 8/21/2013 7:52:22 PM
Isn't this an old thread? I'm sure I saw this in about April or may.


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Posted: 8/22/2013 7:31:45 AM
I am unclear why the school is not the ones making a referral to CPS due to educational neglect. I work in CPS and we can take educational neglect referrals from the school, not from random callers to our hotline.

There's a difference between truancy and educational neglect.

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