Trying to create a new state, North Colorado, have your states tried something like this?

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Posted 7/31/2013 by freecharlie in NSBR Board
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freecharlie
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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:23:17 PM
This year quite a few laws were passed that really ticked off the conservatives, gun owners, and rural people (in many cases the person is all three). There is now a separatist movement to create a new state "North Colorado." Many are for joining Wyoming.

I meant to go to the meeting tonight to here what is going on, but I forgot. I may go tomorrow night.

Has your state tried this? It obviously hasn't happened since Civil War times, so I am wondering how common it is.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:37:07 PM
I don't think it's common at all, and I believe would require approval from the legislature and Congress of all affected states, according to the Constitution.



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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:37:14 PM
Its been being talked about here in California for years.
North California and south California.
So stupid


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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:39:19 PM
I don't necessarily think it's stupid. If the people don't feel like their elected officials are representing them or having their voices heard, then they should seek to find a way. The western states are MUCH larger than the eastern states.

I know a few groups in Texas have been talking about leaving the country completely.



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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:41:54 PM
There's been talk here in NYS to create a new state that would be NYC,Long Island and Staten Island....mostly from those of us who don't live in those areas.



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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:43:57 PM
I guess this is when the conversation turns to, "Let's go to Canada".






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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:45:51 PM
they talk about it in Washington over the years...the wet urban west and the dry rural east....never will happen I think.

northern ca has a sign next to the i-5 freeway outside of weed...welcome to the state of jackson.

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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:47:22 PM
I used to live in NJ and I heard talk of separating north jersey and south jersey some time ago.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:49:35 PM
The provisions for creating a new state are in Article IV, Section 3 of the Constitution. It requires approval of the state legislature(s) involved and Congress. So sure, it can be done, but it's a long shot. Kind of like adding an amendment. Other than West VA separating from VA over the slavery issue & civil war, has there ever been a case of a state splitting up? I don't think so...they were added as territories and then petitioned for statehood pursuant to the rules set up by Congress.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:50:17 PM
Every once in a while an article will come out where the Upper Peninsula wants to break away and form their own state or join Wisconsin.


I guess this is when the conversation turns to, "Let's go to Canada".







Well, since Michigan borders Canada, I guess you can say that. Lol!


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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:53:18 PM
I am pretty much of the attitude to let them leave the union and have at it as independent republics. We'll see how that goes for North Colorado and New Texas. They can enjoy all the guns and freedom and absence of regulation and law that they desire.



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Posted: 7/31/2013 9:01:56 PM
I will bet that many States have some sort of citizen groups lobbying for this type of change.

In Vermont there is group that is trying to get our state to succeed from the Union. We also have a group that is trying to get Killington to succeed from Vermont and become part of New Hampshire.

Both have been going on for years and have not gotten very much public support, and I am sure never will.

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Posted: 7/31/2013 9:06:55 PM
No but they tried to add a 6th great lake to Michigan with a lake in new york. Ridiculous!!!

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Posted: 7/31/2013 9:19:17 PM

No but they tried to add a 6th great lake to Michigan with a lake in new york. Ridiculous!!!


That was Vermont also. Lake Champlain (which borders VT and NY and goes partly into Canada) was made a great lake for a short amount of time, but now it is just some legal mumbo jumbo so that the lake can get funding. I was upset when it happened because it was going to mess up my word ( "H O M E S" ) to remember all of the Great Lakes.

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Posted: 7/31/2013 9:32:35 PM
In addition to the Eastern/Western Washington split and the Northern/Southern California, there has also been a proposal for Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and Southern BC to split off into a single unit (Cascadia) - it's common to be talked about, I don't think it's common to actually happen.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 9:47:45 PM

I am pretty much of the attitude to let them leave the union and have at it as independent republics. We'll see how that goes for North Colorado and New Texas. They can enjoy all the guns and freedom and absence of regulation and law that they desire.


But it doesn't have to be about absence of regulation. It could be about representation. Take Illinois for example. There's northern Illinois, central Illinois, southern Illinois, and Chicago and all are very, VERY different. But more importantly, the entire state is controlled politically by Chicago because that is where the population is, but it doesn't represent most of the rest of the entire state. There were even redistricting of areas around Chicago to gobble up more rural areas just to increase the political hold. It's not about absence of representation but more about at least a fair chance at representation.

(ETA: I'm not aware of any such movement in Illinois, although it wouldn't surprise me.)


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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:13:50 PM
I remember talk about North and South California from when I was in high school (80's)...nothing has ever come from it and I don't imagine it ever will.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:20:03 PM
There have been grumbling for years about eastern Washington breaking offf, due to different politics and the critical population mass being Seattle. Hasn't happened yet though.

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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:23:50 PM
I remember talk of East and West Washington. I wish it *would* happen. I think it is a valid concern and it would be interesting to shake things up a bit.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:37:24 PM
The Republic of Texas rears its head every so often.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 11:44:51 PM
I'm just wondering if some place was to succeed with a separation, what happens to the people in that part of the state that don't agree with the new "state". Do they then have to move to the original state and lose everything they have?

I don't think it would actually happen successfully in any state but I was just wondering about that.


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Posted: 7/31/2013 11:45:26 PM
My husband met one of the people who was spear heading the cascadia idea. A bit nutser you might say.

I think that in the 70's NY did come close to splitting. A lot of people want NYC to be its own state,

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Posted: 7/31/2013 11:58:21 PM
Years ago I attended one of those week long classes where people fly in from all over. One guy was from southern California who was upset about his impending move to northern California.

"You act like it's another country." I commented.

"It is." He glumly replied. (followed by a big sigh)

freecharlie
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Posted: 8/1/2013 12:53:55 AM

I am pretty much of the attitude to let them leave the union and have at it as independent republics. We'll see how that goes for North Colorado and New Texas. They can enjoy all the guns and freedom and absence of regulation and law that they desire.
Ummm, while I think the people wanting to separate are a little over the top, they never said they wanted to secede from the Union itself.

There is a huge difference in the I-25 corridor where most of the population lies and the rural areas. Some in the rural areas don't feel like they are being represented.


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Posted: 8/1/2013 7:06:15 AM
I wish Detroit would remove it's self from our East side and make themselves another state. Or, Canada can have them. Oh, what Michigan would be like without the background noise of the massive financial toilet flushing coming from Detroit.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 7:08:50 AM
But I don't think some of those areas are represented either. The western states were not "built" like those in the east... smaller, more like minded people glomming together. They were drawn by easy borders, access to water, etc. Maybe the time has come to reconsider the borders a bit.

What an interesting time in history THAT would be!


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Posted: 8/1/2013 7:13:43 AM
Secede. Not succeed.

And this kind of ridiculousness happens all the time here. Nothing ever comes of it.


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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:05:25 AM
I live in Texas. I have seen my share of Republic of Texas maps in homes around here. Public school students also pledge allegiance to the Texas flag right after they say the pledge to the American flag. I've been in other schools in several other states and haven't ever seen that.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:38:19 AM
I live in Michigan and the upper penninsula has been talking about it for years. They feel under represented and think we trolls have all the power. I don't think they ever will though because the trolls buy all the fudge they sell.


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peamac
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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:41:28 AM
I'm in Colorado and though I doubt it would ever happen, it's totally understandable the frustration those behind it are feeling. Put Denver, Vail, and Aspen together as one state, and leave the rest of us as another.


They can enjoy all the guns and freedom and absence of regulation and law that they desire.


It's not about an absence of regulation and law, it's about the new laws taking away the rights we've had. And politicians threatening others to suppoort the bills or risk losing jobs and income.


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MergeLeft
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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:43:18 AM
Don't you think Boulder and Fort Collins would want to join the new state? Or has something changed radically since I lived there?

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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:54:15 AM

Posted: 8/1/2013 7:06:15 AM
I wish Detroit would remove it's self from our East side and make themselves another state. Or, Canada can have them. Oh, what Michigan would be like without the background noise of the massive financial toilet flushing coming from Detroit.



Sad, isn't it? And the upcoming mayoral race is going to be a complete joke. But when Detroit was the powerhouse that it used to be back in the day, it was a boom to the entire region. Hoping Detroit can get it's $h!t together and make a turnaround. One can dream, right?


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pretzels
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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:55:44 AM
I honestly think that if any state could do it, it would be Texas. Our business and industry is diversified enough, and we weathered the economy just fine (and Lord knows, Rick Perry has turned down enough federal funding).

Not that I buy into the crazytown that is the Republic, however.

When I worked at the newspaper, while we waited for the press to start, we'd work on how to break Texas up into five new states. Did it a million different ways -- by population, by land mass, etc.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 9:29:53 AM
North Colorado sounds like a bunch of children pouting that they didn't get their way. It's ridiculous. If they don't feel they are being represented, do what the rest of the state is doing and hold expensive recalls to get them out. Why not waste more money?

freecharlie
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Posted: 8/1/2013 10:49:46 AM

Don't you think Boulder and Fort Collins would want to join the new state? Or has something changed radically since I lived there?
No it hasn't changed, I was going to say the same thing. I don't know if Longmont would be added or not.


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Posted: 8/1/2013 10:55:26 AM

I honestly think that if any state could do it, it would be Texas. Our business and industry is diversified enough, and we weathered the economy just fine (and Lord knows, Rick Perry has turned down enough federal funding).

Not that I buy into the crazytown that is the Republic, however.

When I worked at the newspaper, while we waited for the press to start, we'd work on how to break Texas up into five new states. Did it a million different ways -- by population, by land mass, etc.


Can we find some way to do it by level of crazy?

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Posted: 8/1/2013 11:18:10 AM
Illinois has presented the idea but it wasn't serious. It was presented to make a point about how unfair the representation is for outside of Chicago.

As Burning Feather stated, Illinois is run by Chicago because of the population there. I live in central Illinois and I can tell you that the people in Chicago don't have any idea about life in my area of Illinois. Its like a different world.

Chicago gets all the funding, all the representation, and the rest of the state 'rots' away. Its beyond frustrating!

They representative who presented the idea stated that he knew it wasn't ever going to go anywhere and he didn't intend it to, he wanted to draw attention to the inequity of it.

I think it will be brought up again, as a driving home point, and I don't think it will ever go anywhere.

I cant say Id be opposed to it, though, if things don't change here.



SmartyPants71
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Posted: 8/1/2013 11:22:53 AM

We'll see how that goes for North Colorado and New Texas.

I'm fine with this idea as long as the new state takes Rick Perry!

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Posted: 8/1/2013 12:01:09 PM
I know they aren't all asking to secede but my opinion is that's the option which should be available to them. If the current system is unacceptable to you, feel free to establish your own new system. I'm weary of the cultural wars waged by a minority and allowing them to secede seems the most equitable solution given how our system of government was set up.

I am not represented by the elected officials in my area. My political and social sensibilities are as different from those in the majority in my district as is possible. That's the way it goes, I choose to live here. Representative democracy does not guarantee representation by acreage,it's determined by population. The votes of those who live in rural less populated areas should not be given more more weight just because they don't align with the rest of the region.



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Posted: 8/1/2013 12:25:50 PM
I'm from the "State of Jefferson" in far Northern California, near the Oregon border.

The advocates REALLY want to secede. I forget all the reasons, but water is one of them.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 12:30:45 PM

There is a huge difference in the I-25 corridor where most of the population lies and the rural areas. Some in the rural areas don't feel like they are being represented.


That. I'm out on the Western Slope, so I would still be in just plain Colorado, but sometimes I feel like the eastern slope is a totally different mindset. Big things - like the discrepancy in education funding, and little things like our soccer schedule. (We always play at least half of our games in Denver, a 4 hour drive. We ALWAYS have the early springs games and late fall games in Denver. Without fail.)

Shannah, it might seem like they're pouting over not getting their way, but when you feel completely irrelevant to your State, what recourse do you have?

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Posted: 8/1/2013 1:51:57 PM

I know they aren't all asking to secede but my opinion is that's the option which should be available to them.
Hang on - that's the option that disenfranchises ME further in the federal legislature. We ALL should have a say, especially when these EXTREMELY sparsely populated areas are requiring these moves.

Wouldn't it be smarter to push for changes within one's state than to make these dramatic moves that will cost dollars and representation for the rest of us?


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Posted: 8/1/2013 2:34:24 PM

Don't you think Boulder and Fort Collins would want to join the new state? Or has something changed radically since I lived there?


I believe those are not included because God forbid if Boulder County go with the country folks.

Boulder (and sometimes) Ft. Collins are just in their own little world..

(That is all just in fun...)

I actually live about a mile where Weld County (part of one of the counties included in this)... It would be interesting to be living on almost the state line..



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Posted: 8/1/2013 2:38:49 PM
I live in the panhandle of Idaho and many years ago there was a lot of talk about separating our northern section from the southern section of Idaho. We are even in a different time zone and have nothing in common with the southern area, and some were talking of combining northern Idaho with eastern Washington to make a new state as there was more in common with these two areas. I haven't heard anything about this is many, many years.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 2:58:58 PM
It is a real problem when the urban areas of the state carry the vote for the entire state. In my conservative central PA area, we laugh that we'd gladly give Philly to NJ! When Rendel was our governor, all the major funding went to his home city of Philly. We're pretty tired of supporting them.


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Posted: 8/1/2013 3:05:29 PM

"You act like it's another country." I commented.

"It is." He glumly replied. (followed by a big sigh)



I sure felt that way when I moved from SoCal to NoCal.

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Posted: 8/1/2013 3:32:29 PM

Posted: 8/1/2013 7:06:15 AM
I wish Detroit would remove it's self from our East side and make themselves another state. Or, Canada can have them. Oh, what Michigan would be like without the background noise of the massive financial toilet flushing coming from Detroit.




I completely disagree, there is still lots to do in Detroit, I love going downtown. Free Friday night concerts on the river front, the DIA, Historical Museum, Belle Isle, Comerica park and Ford Field just to name a few of the interesting places to go. If you're looking for someplace not "downtown" The Dakota Inn Rathskeller, The Rattlesnake Club, I could go on...

M in Carolina
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Posted: 8/1/2013 5:13:13 PM
Yeah, my state along with others tried it.



beachgurl
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Posted: 8/1/2013 5:44:34 PM

Posted: 8/1/2013 7:06:15 AM
I wish Detroit would remove it's self from our East side and make themselves another state. Or, Canada can have them. Oh, what Michigan would be like without the background noise of the massive financial toilet flushing coming from Detroit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





I completely disagree, there is still lots to do in Detroit, I love going downtown. Free Friday night concerts on the river front, the DIA, Historical Museum, Belle Isle, Comerica park and Ford Field just to name a few of the interesting places to go. If you're looking for someplace not "downtown" The Dakota Inn Rathskeller, The Rattlesnake Club, I could go on...




There might still be plenty of entertainment value, but that doesn't mean the city is not a huge financial drain.




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Posted: 8/1/2013 5:49:03 PM

I believe those are not included because God forbid if Boulder County go with the country folks.

Boulder (and sometimes) Ft. Collins are just in their own little world..
No kidding. I can't imagine Boulder being in favor of oil drilling or gun rights or anything that the folks in Greeley or that area would be favorable to.

Boulder came out as the #4 spot in the 17 Best U.S. Cities for Hippies list that was just released.
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