Mr. Boehner and the Tea Party

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Posted 10/4/2013 by xicanabuela in NSBR Board
 

xicanabuela
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Posted: 10/4/2013 3:03:58 PM
and an outrageous thought I had (it can't be possible - but anything is possible, eh).

What if the actions of the Tea Party are a ploy to have the House majority replace John Boehner as majority leader? (Who would they elect to replace him?)

I know - too outrageous to even consider. But the government shutdown makes me think crazy thoughts.

Y'all take care - I hope next week will be better.

BuckeyeSandy
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Posted: 10/4/2013 11:35:56 PM
I am someone that really does believe that not only have we been TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY, that we as a country CANNOT AFFORD to spend like we have been doing these last 10 years or more years.

Like you have to do at the "kitchen table" when you balance the checkbook and are paying bills, there is a point you have to say NO! And you really do have to put MORE into paying down debt.

I have been writing (long hand, on REAL paper) to my congressional representative and to my senators (to no avail, but I try), to get the finances under control. I also write to those in both the Congress and the Senate that DO SUPPORT a similar position, the one that I want MY representative to share, and tell them "DON'T CAVE IN."

I am perhaps one of only a dozen peas that HAS READ the Affordable Care Act, not the additional 3000 pages of regulations to put it into effect, just the original one that was LONG on schemes and very short on details and financing.

I agree with Justice Roberts, it is a new tax, and for most people, unsustainable within their budgets.

All the news is about "how much each month" No one is talking about the actual costs to see a medical provider. Mostly because no one really knows... they haven't gotten that far yet.

I do have friends and family in the health care industry (and a few at HHS), they are not happy about any of it. Even the few that celebrated the passage, in the middle of the night, by members of ONE political party.




Sandy
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desertpea
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Posted: 10/4/2013 11:54:25 PM
Psst -- the point of the gov't shutdown is to force the Democrats in the Senate and Obama to address the deficit spending.

The majority of Americans do not want Obamacare. The House represents the American people.

I know people think this is like a football game and you root for a team and demonize the other, but that hasn't exactly worked. We still have abnormally high unemployment rates in this country largely due to faulty federal policy. When a huge chunk is not in the labor force, then you don't get the same level of taxes inflowing to the treasury.

The only way to stop this is to cut regulation to spur growth (not going to happen), and/or cut spending (not going to happen). This country will default on its debt as a result, and I recommend reading up on what happened to other countries when they faced a debt crisis.

lindywholoveskids
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Posted: 10/4/2013 11:57:06 PM
I just hope the elected reps in congress start doing their jobs and serve all the people.

The ACA is a done deal. Supreme Court approved it as well.

Why are people afraid of the ACA ? And why did they pick now to stalemate the country?

desertpea
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Posted: 10/5/2013 12:11:17 AM
Obama changed Obamacare via Executive orders, so nothing is a "done deal."

Laws can be changed. We'd still have slavery in this country if laws couldn't be changed.

Lindy: did you enroll yourself and your whole family into a state or federal exchange Obamacare plan this week?

sunny 5
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Posted: 10/5/2013 12:22:23 AM
our deficit has been going down....

lets cut the defense budget, then we can look at entitlements.

I think boehner is screwed...he can't last..

freecharlie
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Posted: 10/5/2013 12:23:17 AM

The majority of Americans do not want Obamacare. The House represents the American people
How do you know that the majority does not want Obamacare? I've seen some numbers where it is split about 50-50, some 40-60 and other splits.

Since Obama won election AFTER Obamacare passed, is it really true that the majority of Americans do not want it?


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desertpea
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Posted: 10/5/2013 12:44:21 AM
Sunny5: so the treasury secretary and Obama were lying when they said the debt ceiling must be raised by October 17?

Freecharlie:

1. Did you enroll yourself and your entire family in a state or federal Obamacare exchange plan this week?

2. Do you think the SEIU, teamsters, and AFL-CIO -- the largest unions in the country -- are lying when they publicly state the 30 hour work week Obamacare mandates hurts the American worker?

3. Do you think an American company that makes pacemakers and hearing devices should be taxed more, thus raising the prices of such devices or people getting permanently laid off from those manufacturers?

4. Do you support the US defaulting on its debt obligations?

~*kristina*~
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Posted: 10/5/2013 11:57:46 AM

The majority of Americans do not want Obamacare. The House represents the American people
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you know that the majority does not want Obamacare? I've seen some numbers where it is split about 50-50, some 40-60 and other splits.

Since Obama won election AFTER Obamacare passed, is it really true that the majority of Americans do not want it?


No, not really, because when people start trotting out the majority doesn't want the ACA nonsense, they fail to mention the percentage of those that don't want it is because THEY WANT A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM.





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Posted: 10/5/2013 2:32:44 PM

www.forbes.com/.../who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisen...ââ‚

For the Doubting Thomas's.

No, Obama Is Not "the Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower"

Ungar is a blogger at Forbes who gets his traffic there partly due to the man-bites-dog-quality of the "conservative" Forbes seemingly endorsing all sorts of left-wing talking points and legends promoted on Ungar's blog. (Forbes' publisher, unlike many of its staff, is conservative.) For example, this link describes Ungar's blog post as an assertion by Forbes itself that Obama is "the smallest government spender since Eisenhower." The fact that Ungar's blog is on the web site of the supposedly conservative Forbes Magazine enables liberals like Roger Ebert to say that "even Forbes, of all places" agrees with whatever is the factually-baseless liberal taking-point of the day, by linking to Ungar's blog on the site. Everything Ungar says in favor of big government, or against free market-oriented economic policies, is treated by those who agree with him as a confession or admission by a conservative magazine that markets don't work, or that the conservative reformers that Ungar criticizes must be extremists to be criticized even at Forbes.

BeckyTech
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Posted: 10/5/2013 5:51:38 PM

go with decades of research backed the graduate professors at the University of Michigan? Or Becky Tech?
Hardly. I guess you missed it, but the formatting I used above was the quote feature. It was one paragraph from a longer article offering up sources from a wide variety of qualified people who have very different opinions and interpretation of the numbers used in the article you cited. I merely posted the link and quote.

scrapApea
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Posted: 10/5/2013 5:58:06 PM

lets cut the defense budget, then we can look at entitlements.
They will never cut entitlements even though they are paid to way too many people who shouldn't get them!

birukitty
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Posted: 10/5/2013 6:21:50 PM
The Republicans keep saying "the majority of Americans do not want Obamacare."

*Kristina* is right. They are counting in the Americans who not only want Obamacare, but want something even stronger-a single payer system.

The correct figure is 38% of Americans do not want Obamacare, 62% of Americans want Obamacare.

Of course part of the 38% who do not want Obamacare don't know what it is. When asked on camera recently some said there would be death panels and the goverment would decide who would live and die. Some other folks said that the goverment would implant a plastic disc in your arm and control everything about you-that's what they thought Obamacare was.

Debbie in MD.

BeckyTech
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Posted: 10/5/2013 6:26:17 PM

The correct figure is 38% of Americans do not want Obamacare, 62% of Americans want Obamacare.
Of that poll on that day by that pollster and their question(s).

Sue_Pea
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Posted: 10/5/2013 7:04:48 PM
The correct figure is 38% of Americans do not want Obamacare, 62% of Americans want Obamacare.
Of that poll on that day by that pollster and their question(s).[\quote]

Do you know of another poll-taken on a different day, that says otherwise? A serious question-I have not seen a poll that says that the majority of Americans don't want it.


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BeckyTech
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Posted: 10/5/2013 8:16:19 PM

Do you know of another poll-taken on a different day, that says otherwise? A serious question-I have not seen a poll that says that the majority of Americans don't want it.
Sue Pea, my comment was directed to the fact that the polls are all over the place on Obamacare. My understanding is that poll taking is both an art and a science: how is the question worded, who are the respondents, how many people respond, what segment of the population is asked, and so on.

The way it was worded in that post: "The correct figure is ..." just seemed pretty definite and I was merely trying to point out that there are variables in polls and poll-taking, so the "correct figure" will vary and is composed of many variables. That's all.

For instance, this USA Today/Pew Research Poll taken September 4-8, says 53% disapprove of the health care law, a lot don't understand it, and has a few other questions and responses ...

Here is the Gallup page on Healthcare. Look at the video of how their question was worded and the results (it appears the last time they asked this direct question was in July) The results again showed that 52% of Americans disapprove of the ACA and go on to give the partisan breakdown. But delve a little further and it says that of the Democrats, who overwhelmingly approve of the ACA itself, only 40% think it will makes things better for them. (Which is kind of interesting.)

And then there is the poll on the Rasmussen Reports site showing that there are actually 9% of likely voters that rate the way Congress is doing its job as good or excellent ...

If you go to the Real Clear Politics page on presidential job approval, I think that table illustrates nicely how widely results can vary. I'm seeing anywhere from 39% to 49% (but I could be missing a number, I didn't study it closely).

maddiesmum
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Posted: 10/5/2013 8:20:22 PM
Polls show that 99% of all republican/conservative/tea-party/libertarian members of two peas have no good g*dd*mned idea what the Affordable Care Act is.


ddicorcia
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Posted: 10/5/2013 8:50:27 PM
Ignorance is bliss and so is Mrs tyler and dessertpea

birukitty
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Posted: 10/5/2013 11:03:09 PM
BeckyTech,

Now you're going to play the polls aren't accurate card? What happened to Republicans constantly stating that the majority of Americans don't want Obamacare?

And were you counting in your majority of Americans those Americans who not only want Obamacare, but would really love something even more than Obamacare-a single payer system. While they realize they haven't gotten that yet, they are more than happy with Obamacare because it is a step in the right direction.

From what I've learned the Republicans are counting these Americans among their "majority of Americans who don't want Obamacare" which is ludicrious! But then, you have to consider the source.

Debbie in MD.

BeckyTech
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Posted: 10/6/2013 3:22:04 AM

Now you're going to play the polls aren't accurate card?
When you posted "The correct figure is ..." you didn't cite a source or any information about it. I was merely pointing out that without that information it is difficult to take it as a definitive fact of anything.

You seem to be mistaking me for someone interested in the rest of the discussion here. I was merely commenting on one small aspect. Carry on.

eebud
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Posted: 10/6/2013 5:18:51 AM





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Posted: 10/6/2013 6:24:16 AM

Do you know of another poll-taken on a different day, that says otherwise? A serious question-I have not seen a poll that says that the majority of Americans don't want it.

Sue Pea, my comment was directed to the fact that the polls are all over the place on Obamacare. My understanding is that poll taking is both an art and a science: how is the question worded, who are the respondents, how many people respond, what segment of the population is asked, and so on.

The way it was worded in that post: "The correct figure is ..." just seemed pretty definite and I was merely trying to point out that there are variables in polls and poll-taking, so the "correct figure" will vary and is composed of many variables. That's all.

For instance, this USA Today/Pew Research Poll taken September 4-8, says 53% disapprove of the health care law, a lot don't understand it, and has a few other questions and responses ...

Here is the Gallup page on Healthcare. Look at the video of how their question was worded and the results (it appears the last time they asked this direct question was in July) The results again showed that 52% of Americans disapprove of the ACA and go on to give the partisan breakdown. But delve a little further and it says that of the Democrats, who overwhelmingly approve of the ACA itself, only 40% think it will makes things better for them. (Which is kind of interesting.)

And then there is the poll on the Rasmussen Reports site showing that there are actually 9% of likely voters that rate the way Congress is doing its job as good or excellent ...

If you go to the Real Clear Politics page on presidential job approval, I think that table illustrates nicely how widely results can vary. I'm seeing anywhere from 39% to 49% (but I could be missing a number, I didn't study it closely).


OK, it's a fair point that polls can be suspect. Look how wrong many polls got the 2012 election. And that isn't snark; I just remember that a lot of pollsters ended up with egg on their faces. It's good to be wary of data, I guess.

BeckyTech
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Posted: 10/6/2013 12:22:50 PM

OK, it's a fair point that polls can be suspect. Look how wrong many polls got the 2012 election. And that isn't snark; I just remember that a lot of pollsters ended up with egg on their faces. It's good to be wary of data, I guess.
Exactly, Sue_Pea!

desertpea
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Posted: 10/7/2013 5:27:02 PM
Did the majority of the House suddenly switch its position to being pro-Obamacare? These are people directly elected as representatives of the people via popular vote in their districts.

Some of you have no idea what you are talking about.

Good lord, single payer. The majority do not want single payer, which is why they voted for people to stop Obamacare. Could you imagine the equivalent of IRS employees targeting who gets what procedure?

BTW, until you all who support this dump your existing health insurance and get an Obamacare plan, your opinions have zero validity. Practice what you preach.

scraps_of_time
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Posted: 10/7/2013 5:42:48 PM

until you all who support this dump your existing health insurance and get an Obamacare plan, your opinions have zero validity.



Nice thought, but according to the ACA guidelines that's not possible for most to do.




Rhonda

desertpea
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Posted: 10/7/2013 6:30:37 PM

Nice thought, but according to the ACA guidelines that's not possible for most to do.


Paste the language that states that, please.

You can easily decline coverage in any employer sponsored health insurance plan during the enrollment period, and enroll in an exchange plan instead. The exchange plans cannot turn you down for pre-existing conditions.

dottyscrapper
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Posted: 10/7/2013 6:33:20 PM

Some of you have no idea what you are talking about.

Good lord, single payer. The majority do not want single payer, which is why they voted for people to stop Obamacare. Could you imagine the equivalent of IRS employees targeting who gets what procedure?



You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about either desertpea!

Single payer healthcare describes the funding mechanism and has nothing to do with any country's equivalent of the IRS deciding who receives or what procedures the patient is entitled to.

Here in the UK it's decided on clinical need and decided by a fully qualified Doctor. I have no doubt that other countries like Canada, Australia and many other countries, who have some forms of single payer healthcare, decide by the same criteria.



desertpea
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Posted: 10/7/2013 7:16:16 PM
US population: 316,809,000
UK population: 63,705,000
Canada population: 35,158,304

Single payer replaces the private health insurance system with a government one, including all the bureaucracy.

The US hits its debt ceiling on Medicare, Social Security, etc. by October 17. That's without single payer, which will be the eventuality because that is what Obamacare is designed to do.

If people want single payer for the poor and seniors, they have it already -- it's called Medicaid and Medicare. And everyone who doesn't have health insurance mandated by Obamacare will automatically be enrolled in Medicaid on the date specified. And there are many doctors who opt out of taking Medicaid patients.


In a 2011 study, two-thirds of callers trying to make an appointment with a specialist for a child on Medicaid were denied care compared with 11 percent of kids with private insurance. The Medicaid children who were able to get an appointment had to wait an average of 22 days longer than the privately insured ones, according to the study published in the New England Journal of Medicine. bloomberg


That's the single payer, and it will cost over $2.6 trillion dollars. If we can't pay our bills now, then what's going to happen when that kicks in?

Obamacare does nothing to bring down the cost of healthcare. It raises it because it's an economic fallacy to have the regulator be the provider.

jen40
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Posted: 10/7/2013 8:30:12 PM
This leukemia patient who now has a pre existing condition and the very real chance of hitting the medical lifetime caps in place before the ACA is very grateful for the new rules.

I do agree that the ACA doesn't do enough to control health care costs and that is the next thing that needs looked at. But one of the things that will bring health care costs down is everyone having insurance. Btw, I would also prefer to see a single payer system.

Anecdotally, my husband's employer (company owned by conservative republicans) are in open enrollment right now. His insurance premium went up $4 a month with no changes to the $2,500 max out of pocket deductible and no discernible changes to the benefits offered. In fact the chiropractic benefits are actually better. Trust me his employer is not picking up a larger difference. This is a company that employs approximately 100 people.


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Posted: 10/7/2013 9:15:49 PM

Here in the UK it's decided on clinical need and decided by a fully qualified Doctor.


So, let me ask you. You state based on clinical need and a fully qualified doctor.

Are you saying, within your country, each case is analyzed by the attending physician right then and there and not based on overall best practices? And whatever that physician deems necessary is covered?

How does standard of care work within your system?



Tracey

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Posted: 10/8/2013 4:50:37 AM

Are you saying, within your country, each case is analyzed by the attending physician right then and there and not based on overall best practices? And whatever that physician deems necessary is covered?


Yes it would be a medical professional, who is monitored by the Care Quality Commission who sets best practice standards that cover Hospitals/Care Homes/Dentists/Dr and GP( primary care Dr's)/Various Clinics/Community service such as community nurses etc and Mental Health. That's from the top of my head, there may be more.
They set the standards expected for these various professionals to adhere to. If we find any cause that would fall below the expected standard we have a system of redress and complain. The CQC has powers to put things right.We also have the right to a second opinion if we disagree with the diagnosis that our GP/Surgeon/Physician/ Gyne etc has made initially.
Is the system fool proof, no of course it isn't no system ever is. No difference than you would probably get a good standard of care from a private physician/hospital in the US but not so acceptable from another.

As a matter of interest who overseas the standard of care in the US ( that's a genuine question as I don't know how the medical profession is monitored over there)

What I was referring to initially to desertpea's post was, that no administrator sitting behind a desk somewhere, with no medical qualifications decides whether a patient needs to have a hip replacement/MRI scan/their appendix removed or any other medical treatment for that matter. The decision is made by no other person except a medically qualified person based on clinical need.




dottyscrapper
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Posted: 10/8/2013 5:14:36 AM

In a 2011 study, two-thirds of callers trying to make an appointment with a specialist for a child on Medicaid were denied care compared with 11 percent of kids with private insurance. The Medicaid children who were able to get an appointment had to wait an average of 22 days longer than the privately insured ones, according to the study published in the New England Journal of Medicine. bloomberg


That's the single payer,


That might be what is happening in the US but that isn't generally what happens in " single payer health insurance"
If I rang my primary care Dr for an appointment for my sick child this morning I would be able to see him today.

Be serious desertpea! Do you honestly think that all the countries who have Universal Health Care has the level of waiting time for appointments that you have quoted, and would be willing to accept this.

By all means discuss what would be the ideal healthcare for the US but please do not quote inaccurate information as to a single payer health system as a whole, based on your limited experience or on what you read in the media.








desertpea
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Posted: 10/8/2013 9:30:18 AM
When did I bring up any country besides the US?

My posts were very specific to existing US single payer programs. Where exactly are you getting confused?

dottyscrapper
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 10/8/2013 3:16:01 PM

When did I bring up any country besides the US?

My posts were very specific to existing US single payer programs. Where exactly are you getting confused?


Your post was specific to " Single Payer Health Care" a term used to describe a system of health care, not just your interpretation of what it means or how the system works in the US. It's a globally used term and has a specific meaning.

By quoting the article from Bloomberg and adding the blunt statement of "That's single payer" you're suggesting that that is how the system works everywhere. That is not the case.

The term " Single Payer Health Care" refers to the funding mechanism and has nothing to do with the standard of care, which is what the Bloomberg article is reporting on.

You're confusing the definition of Single Payer Healthcare with the quality of care under your Medicaid and Medicare.









beachgurl
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Posted: 10/8/2013 3:32:02 PM

The correct figure is 38% of Americans do not want Obamacare, 62% of Americans want Obamacare.

Of course part of the 38% who do not want Obamacare don't know what it is. When asked on camera recently some said there would be death panels and the goverment would decide who would live and die. Some other folks said that the goverment would implant a plastic disc in your arm and control everything about you-that's what they thought Obamacare was.



And that 62% who you are saying do want Obamacare, how many of them don't know what it is? How many of them think that they will get more and better care for less cost? How many of them think that insuring adults until they are 26, will not come with a cost? How many think that eliminating lifetime caps will not increase costs? How many of them think that they are going to get quality health care free now? How many of them really do not mind paying substantially more, if it gives others better coverage for less?



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