Former Nazi camp guard, possible deportation....not sure how I feel about this.....
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 12/3/2012 by candleangie in NSBR Board
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candleangie
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:18:27 AM
Link to Story

PITTSBURGH (AP) - As U.S. authorities continue a long legal battle to deport a former Nazi concentration camp guard, it's not clear what will happen next if they prevail.

Anton Geiser, now 88, has been living in a small western Pennsylvania town for more than 50 years. He didn't even tell his family about the Nazi service until 2004, when the Justice Department began legal proceedings.

Geiser's lawyer will be appealing a deportation order next week, before the Board of Immigration Appeals in Falls Church, Va.

"We hope that he is deported," said Joy Braunstein, director of the Holocaust Center of the Jewish Federation of Greater Pittsburgh.

But Kurt Schrimm, the head of the special prosecutors' office in Germany that investigates Nazi war crimes, said they aren't currently investigating Geiser's case, and the Austrian Justice Ministry said it hasn't corresponded with American authorities.

Geiser says he was forced to join the SS at the age of 17, in 1942, and that he never killed anyone. And while he served as a guard at the Sachsenhausen and Buchenwald concentration camps, he didn't serve at so-called death camps, such as Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau, which existed only to exterminate people.

The details may be irrelevant to most people, but in past cases prosecutors mentioned death-camp service, noting the prisoners there had no option other than death. In the case of Johann Breyer of Philadelphia, another accused former Nazi guard, a judge allowed him to stay in the U.S. reasoning in part that because Breyer had joined the SS at age 17, he couldn't be held responsible for what he did as a minor.

Federal prosecutors, however, say that even if Anton Geiser didn't kill anyone, his work as a concentration camp guard makes him a party to the persecution of countless men, women and children, no matter how long ago that happened.

Geiser escorted prisoners to slave labor sites and was under orders to shoot any prisoners who attempted to escape. Both sides agree that Geiser guarded only the perimeter of the camps, but previous court rulings have found that doing so is enough to make someone ineligible for U.S. citizenship.

Geiser told prosecutors he was ashamed of his work as a camp guard. "I was not proud where I served and I didn't like it then and I didn't like it now."

Roe said Geiser was recently hospitalized and doesn't want to talk about the case, but added that neither he nor his client dispute that the Nazi camps were horrific and "outrageous" chapters of history.

The Sachsenhausen and Buchenwald camps held some political and military prisoners, but tens of thousands of people also died there under horrific conditions, such as starvation, slave labor, medical experiments, and executions.

Peter Black, the senior historian at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, said that it's "very difficult" to tell whether any particular individual actually volunteered for the SS, or was pressured to join.

But he said the guards were essential to the concentration camp system.

"Even if they don't have any contact with a prisoner, by walking the perimeter as an armed guard, they are helping to keep the people inside that place where they are enduing persecution," Black said, adding that SS guards were paid, got leave time, and health benefits for their service.

A federal judge in Pittsburgh revoked Geiser's citizenship in 2006 and another judge ordered him deported in 2010. Geiser is fighting that order. He lost a circuit court appeal in 2008, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear his case in 2009. In 2010 an immigration judge ordered him deported to Austria, or any other country that will take him.

Geiser came to the U.S. in 1956 and settled in the small town of Sharon, which is about 75 miles north of Pittsburgh. He became a citizen in 1962, worked in a steel mill for decades and raised five children.

The Austrian Embassy in Washington, D.C. did not immediately respond to a question about whether the country would accept Geiser.

Adrian Roe, Geiser's lawyer, said the Board of Immigration Appeals in Fairfax, Va., should consider a different 2009 Supreme Court ruling when it hears Geiser's case on Dec. 6.

The legal question is "about when people are dragged into assisting the persecutions involuntarily," Roe said, referring to an asylum case involving an Eritrean man who said he was forced to guard prisoners in Ethiopia. In that case the Supreme Court ordered immigration authorities to consider whether people who were part of persecutions did so involuntarily.

Roe said that no matter how the Immigration Board rules, further appeals are possible.

The Justice Department didn't respond to questions for comment on the Geiser case, which is part of its efforts to investigate former Nazis. Since the 1979 inception of the program, it has won more than 100 cases.


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candleangie
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:21:49 AM
The fact that his family didn't even know until legal proceedings started speaks to some pretty deep shame, to me. I just don't know how to feel about his.

There's the very big part of me that says, "OMG...Throw the book at him, and anyone else even remotely involved in the holocaust." But the reality is that an entire nation was involved. And it's been 70+ years. This feels a little like keeping it alive.

Edited for clarification: I DO NOT disagree with the action being taken. My confusion is whether it's enough to simply remove him. If the circumstances of the times and the time that has passed (and potentially, the type of life he's lived since) make that enough.


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Just T
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:00:16 AM

I just don't know how to feel about his.

There's the very big part of me that says, "OMG...Throw the book at him, and anyone else even remotely involved in the holocaust." But the reality is that an entire nation was involved.


I too have very mixed feelings. I think the part that does that to me is the fact that he was forced into Nazi service at 17. That is still a kid. He was probably scared shitless and truly had no choice.

I think a grown man choosing to become part of the Nazis and being sent to a camp is different than a child being forced into it. I think those of us who now live in a time and country where military service is a choice cannot really comprehend what life must have been like for teenaged boys in Nazi Germany who witnessed the execution of entire families because someone wouldn't comply with orders.

candleangie
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:04:05 AM

I think those of us who now live in a time and country where military service is a choice cannot really comprehend what life must have been like for teenaged boys in Nazi Germany who witnessed the execution of entire families because someone wouldn't comply with orders.


I think that's exactly it. How can we know what happened then? We can really only judge by the way he's lived the rest of his life...but they didn't say much about that.


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TheOtherMeg
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:05:16 AM

I too have very mixed feelings. I think the part that does that to me is the fact that he was forced into Nazi service at 17. That is still a kid. He was probably scared shitless and truly had no choice.

I think a grown man choosing to become part of the Nazis and being sent to a camp is different than a child being forced into it. I think those of us who now live in a time and country where military service is a choice cannot really comprehend what life must have been like for teenaged boys in Nazi Germany who witnessed the execution of entire families because someone wouldn't comply with orders.

ITA

And I don't think silence is a sign of guilt. My father and FIL served in the US military and getting them to talk about their very honorable service is like pulling teeth. That generation tends to not talk about things.



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batya
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:07:36 AM
Though why should he be treated differently than the many other Nazis who were deported just b/c of the passage of time or b/c you think he is remorseful? There were many who also served under the same circumstances.

What message is being sent? That if you hide long enough, you'll be excused?

Maybe he was quiet b/c he didn't want to be deported and he was scared.


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Just T
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:10:31 AM

And I don't think silence is a sign of guilt. My father and FIL served in the US military and getting them to talk about their very honorable service is like pulling teeth. That generation tends to not talk about things.


Yep. I have an uncle who served in Vietnam. I have never heard even ONE story about that time. NONE.


Whenever I read stories like the op posted, I think of my own sons, especially my 18 year old. He is a very sensitive, loving, hugging, type of guy. I try to imagine what it would be like if all of the sudden he was forced into a military regime and told, "If you don't do what you are told, we will kill your family!"

Just T
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:12:43 AM

Though why should he be treated differently than the many other Nazis who were deported just b/c of the passage of time or b/c you think he is remorseful? There were many who also served under the same circumstances.

What message is being sent? That if you hide long enough, you'll be excused?

Maybe he was quiet b/c he didn't want to be deported and he was scared.


Honestly, I have always felt the way I posted if I read it was someone who was a kid when they were forced into Nazi military service.

ETA: I do think there were some truly evil people who thoroughly enjoyed what they did, and who truly embraced Hitlers ideals. However, I also believe there were many people who did what they did out of fear, not for themselves, but fear of what would happen to their loved ones if they didn't do as they were ordered.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:20:34 AM
JustT, I agree with what you're saying. But should the US change or back down on their policy just b/c time has passed? They must have deported many people in the same situation. And how would they discern who was telling the truth about it and who was saying it to avoid being deported? These people were death camp guards and Nazi party criminals. No way around that.

If we had people today who were affiliated with Al-Qaeda and they said they were only part of it b/c they were young and scared and coerced into being part of these terrorist cells would you back off or would you want them tried and gone?


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Just T
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:24:39 AM

If we had people today who were affiliated with Al-Qaeda and they said they were only part of it b/c they were young and scared and coerced into being part of these terrorist cells would you back off or would you want them tried and gone?


I guess the difference for me is that we are now talking about OLD men. Old men who have lived their lives obviously trying to make up for and atone for the horrors they may have inflicted due to force and fear when they were nothing more than kids.

Al-Qaeda is different, unless I am uneducated about the group. Don't people willingly join and truly believe in the cause? And truly believe that by killing, they are ensuring their own place in whatever afterworld they believe in? Are boys ripped from their homes in the middle of the night, told their family will be killed if they don't join Al-Qaeda? Maybe so and I am stupid. If so, I will bow out of this argument. LOL

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:25:08 AM
Some random quotes that came to me when ever I read these types of stories:

Mercy is for the guilty, the innocent only need justice.

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, we would all be blind and toothless.

Vengeance is NOT Justice

Forgive others

And

Justice is mine, saith the Lord.

I really do believe in my mind, heart and soul that each of us will be called to account for our lives lived.


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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:25:36 AM
I don't have any problem deporting him. He knew the rules. I don't care how much time has passed either- tough cookies.

utmr
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:26:16 AM
Sucks for him. Put him on a plane. Or, preferably, in a boxcar.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:29:18 AM

Though why should he be treated differently than the many other Nazis who were deported just b/c of the passage of time or b/c you think he is remorseful? There were many who also served under the same circumstances.

What message is being sent? That if you hide long enough, you'll be excused?


Absolutely not, he should not be excused because he managed to hide for decades before he was discovered. It doesn't matter if he is ashamed or remorseful. There is no statute of limitation on murder,why should there be on aiding genocide? This makes no sense; he committed crimes against humanity and should be taken to account for it.



How can we know what happened then? We can really only judge by the way he's lived the rest of his life...but they didn't say much about that.


The way he's lived his life since Nazi service is irrelevant. Such considerations are not relevent for run-of-the-mill murderers, why should they be for an admitted Nazi camp guard? Mind-blowing...






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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:30:32 AM

I guess the difference for me is that we are now talking about OLD men. Old men who have lived their lives obviously trying to make up for and atone for the horrors they may have inflicted due to force and fear when they were nothing more than kids.

Al-Qaeda is different, unless I am uneducated about the group. Don't people willingly join and truly believe in the cause? And truly believe that by killing, they are ensuring their own place in whatever afterworld they believe in? Are boys ripped from their homes in the middle of the night, told their family will be killed if they don't join Al-Qaeda? Maybe so and I am stupid. If so, I will bow out of this argument. LOL


So what you're saying IS that the passage of time makes a crime null and void. How did he atone for his crime? Did he work with victims of the war? Donate money to Holocaust victims? What did he do?

How is Al-Qaeda different? This man for all intents and purposes aside from his word willingly joined the Nazi party and was a collaborator at the camps. How do you know that someone isn't coerced into joining Al-Qaeda. No difference. It's just that one is a confrontation in your life and another is in the past, to another people. Do you think terrorists in one nation and time work so differently than terrorists in another nation and time?


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*maureen*
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:37:01 AM

But the reality is that an entire nation was involved. And it's been 70+ years. This feels a little like keeping it alive.


Tell that to my husband's 95 year old grandmother who is the lone survivor of her family's experience with the camps.

batya
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:39:27 AM
Thank goodness there are people who want to keep it alive.

I hope that when we are all dead and gone, there are people who want to keep alive the memory of those who died on 9/11 and never forget who perpetrated those crimes against humanity.

There is no difference.

Never forget. Keep the memory alive.

I hope that put it in a better context for you.



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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:51:48 AM
Whether he went along with Nazi "group mentality" because he was a bully, thug, out of fear of retaliation, a kid, or something else - he bought into it and served. And with that service, people were put to death.

There were other options (yes, at great personal peril) but options nonetheless.

At long last, we're trying to deport a war criminal. Nothing more, nothing less - don't feel sorry for an old man who got to live fifty plus years and raise a family in relative comfort in Pennsylvania; it's a generous gift millions did not receive.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:55:20 AM
Looks to me like he lied to get into this country.

I appreciate the compassion that readers are extending to him, and appreciate that it's an interesting discussion to have. However, given the rest of what's been on this board in the past twenty-four hours, it's hard not to look at it as though even being an ex-Nazi is better than being brown.


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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:04:35 AM

bout OLD men. Old men who have lived their lives obviously trying to make up for and atone for the horrors they may have inflicted due to force and fear when they were nothing more than kids.



While it may be obvious to you, I am not seeing anywhere in that article that he was "trying to make up for and atone for the horrors". Did it say he spent his life selflessly working to help others? For all we know, he spent the rest of his life a bitter, nasty person spouting racist crap everywhere. Or not. We don't know that.

I think reneging on his deportation sets a dangerous precedent and the Al Queda analogy is a good one.



candleangie
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:41:16 AM
Just for clarification, I don't disagree with the action that's being taken. I just don't know how to feel about it.

I can't wrap my head around the enormity of the problem. On the one hand...deportation isn't enough (throw the book at him). On the other, who knows what happened then, and what kind of life he's led since. Maybe it's enough to just kick him out.

I don't think it provides justice for the people who deserve it. I don't think you CAN provide that justice. It's just too big.



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Sharna_G
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:52:26 AM
My compassionate side is heartbroken for his family who are (presumably) innocent and may lose their grandfather/uncle/brother. But I agree with this:

At long last, we're trying to deport a war criminal. Nothing more, nothing less - don't feel sorry for an old man who got to live fifty plus years and raise a family in relative comfort in Pennsylvania; it's a generous gift millions did not receive.


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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:52:37 AM
Although I haven't had time to read through all the rsponses yet, I have to disagree with this statment:

And it's been 70+ years. This feels a little like keeping it alive.


By following through on seeking justice for people's actions, we're not "keeping it alive". The fact is, it IS still alive - people are still alive who were in those camps, and people are ceratinly still alive whose family members were in those camp, and/or had much of their families wiped out by the Nazis. So it's still very much alive and affects a lot of people to this day.

*Erin
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:53:04 AM

Thank goodness there are people who want to keep it alive.
ITA.

moveablefeast
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:57:02 AM
I believe in redemption - I really do - I believe that people can be redeemed. That a person can do horrible, horrible things, and then change his or her life and become an upstanding, productive, good citizen.

But I also know that our wrong actions have consequences even after we have been redeemed.

I would be terribly sorry to see him deported after all these years, but accept also, at least according to what I've read about this, that there is likely no statute of limitations on this matter. Nor should there be.

The Nazi propaganda machine had been incredibly effective - ordinary German citizens seemed to lack understanding of what was really going on under the Nazi regime. I remember seeing a video of the American soldiers forcing German citizens to walk through the camps. The citizens go in cheerful and they come out sobbing. They really didn't get it. So I can picture a teenager at that time not really getting it and getting sucked into something that was so much bigger than he could have imagined.

But whether he understood or not, was forced to do it or not, the fact of the matter is that his citizenship was revoked, and I believe it is a just law by which it was done.

I don't say that with glee, I say it with sadness because my God, the whole thing is just horrifying, from beginning to end. Makes me so sad. His poor family - what they must be going through. And yet - what else should the US do?

candleangie
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:05:31 PM
Moveablefeast, that's exactly what I was trying (and failing) to communicate. Thank you.


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lucyg819
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:06:59 PM
I'm perfectly fine with keeping it alive. Quite eager, actually.


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purpledaisy
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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:36:01 PM

By following through on seeking justice for people's actions, we're not "keeping it alive". The fact is, it IS still alive - people are still alive who were in those camps, and people are ceratinly still alive whose family members were in those camp, and/or had much of their families wiped out by the Nazis. So it's still very much alive and affects a lot of people to this day.

So this! I'm fine with deporting him. I feel badly for his family, but he needs to answer for what he did.


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Posted: 12/3/2012 12:53:04 PM
I question the claim that he was 'forced to join the SS at age 17'.

The SS was a special branch of the German Army. It actually began as part of the Nazi party outside of the German Wehrmacht (the professional German Army). I don't believe the story of anyone who claims to have accidentally ended up in the SS or the Nazi party.

It was entirely possible to be drafted into the Wehrmacht and be compelled to serve in the general army against one's will(exhibit A Pope Benedict XVI). However that is very, very different from being in the SS. It would like saying that you were 'forced' to be a paratrooper in the WWII US Army. No, they were special troops and were all volunteers. Sure, they were drafted into general army service, but to get to the special units you have to volunteer for them.

I believe he should be deported because he lied in his documents upon entering this country and in getting his citizenship. That is the crime he committed here in the United States and the punishment should be expulsion. Leave it to Germany, Austria or Israel to choose whether to prosecute him for any crimes that may have occurred during the war. I would personally hope that he would be held accountable and punished in the same way that anyone else who held that same job he held was punished.

Some crimes should have no statute of limitations... participation in the holocaust is one of them.





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birukitty
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:18:59 PM
Actually, 6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust AND 6 million non-Jews. That makes 12 million people!

I agree with MapChic above and Bayta.

He's lucky he was able to hide in the USA for so many years, but he should still be deported and tried for his crimes against humanity. I don't buy for one minute that he was "forced" to join the SS. We only have his word that he never killed anyone, but logically he probably did.

Yes he's an old man now, but think of the 12 million people that weren't able to live the last 60 years.

I say deport him, send him to trail for his crimes and gas him to death.

Debbie in MD.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:37:23 PM
Put me down as a "tough crap." None of the victims of the Holocaust had options and he did. I am quite certain that even if he didn't directly kill anyone, he aided the people doing it by simply joining.


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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:38:11 PM


I too have very mixed feelings. I think the part that does that to me is the fact that he was forced into Nazi service at 17. That is still a kid. He was probably scared shitless and truly had no choice.
-- quote--

17 year olds (and even younger kids) are routinely tried as adults in this country, so why should this one be any different? If he were Muslim and appeared "ethnic" people would be ready to throw the book at him, no matter what cultural pressures he might have faced.



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angievp
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:57:34 PM

The legal question is "about when people are dragged into assisting the persecutions involuntarily," Roe said, referring to an asylum case involving an Eritrean man who said he was forced to guard prisoners in Ethiopia. In that case the Supreme Court ordered immigration authorities to consider whether people who were part of persecutions did so involuntarily.


My personal sense of revulsion towards anyone even tangentially involved in the Holocaust aside, it will be interesting to see which standard is applied by the immigration judge and the ultimate disposition of the appeal.

If he's old and sick, he may just litigate himself out of deportation. I feel a deep sense of sadness for his family. For me, age is not a mitigating factor at all. The Holocaust denied millions of people the right to live to a 'ripe old age," and simply living a "crime-free, quiet life" doesn't get bonus points with me--that's what we're supposed to do.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:05:05 PM

Sucks for him. Put him on a plane. Or, preferably, in a boxcar.
Thank you. I'm thinking: OFF. WITH. HIS. HEAD.



*Fresca*
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:05:28 PM
I visited the U.S. Memorial Holocaust Museum in Washington DC last month and it was an experience that I will never forget. Such a horrific tragedy. If you have an opportunity, please go to this museum and educate yourself about the Holocaust.


*Debbie*


*****Today I will be happy as a bird with a frenchfry*****

wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:17:37 PM
Some of you talk as though he is guilty of some specific crime already. He has not been tried in any court of law. He was a perimeter guard. Is that his crime here?

For God's sake, let it go. In twenty or so years, all of these men will be dead and gone. Are we supposed to be trying and convicting the entire ex German military? The German people who were adults at the time? Where does it stop?

The quality of mercy, and all that.






desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:30:29 PM

He was a perimeter guard. Is that his crime here?



Hell yes. You stand by watching people get ushered into gas chambers, then you are just as guilty as someone who dropped in the gas pellets.

The fact that you need something like this explained to you doesn't surprise me.

Seanna.
PeaFixture

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:32:24 PM
This would already be a part of his past had he not lied about it and tried to hide it. No one would have been sympathetic about a 40-year-old Nazi camp guard getting caught lying about his past. Just because he was successful for 40 years longer than that doesn't change anything, and it sure doesn't change him into a sympathetic figure.


When I went to edit my signature, the "Edit Signature" title was spelled wrong. So that was distracting and I forgot what I wanted my new signature to be.

redayh
BucketHead

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:39:14 PM
Sometimes you have to pay the piper. This is one of those times. I feel bad for his family though.
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scrappower
Allons-y Alonso

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:40:17 PM
You know the deportation I understand, but the calls for killing him, I just can't.



desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:50:14 PM
I'd prefer he get sentenced to carrying a 250 lb anvil for about ten miles every day for the rest of his life.

MellyW
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:52:18 PM

Stand in Auschwitz & then tell me he should get to stay here.


A very dear friend of mine implored me to visit with her. It's the only reason I went, she lost many family members there & I felt it was the least I could do. I've never personally wanted to go, I knew too many people growing up who survived.

I literally can not put into words what I felt that day. It's been over 10 years & I'm queasy just typing this out. It is an experience I hope to never have again in my life.

Just reading what some have typed here is making my hands literally shake with anger. To ever forget, to wonder when it can be put behind us?

Go look at your children right now, & try to imagine the horror that was heaped onto other Mothers children. Can you picture the screams? Can you imagine praying it will be a quick death, they won't be tortured in some horrific medical experiment? Can you see your own parents stripped naked, forced to run around in circles? Dear G*d I hope humanity never forgets.

wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:06:18 PM

Hell yes. You stand by watching people get ushered into gas chambers, then you are just as guilty as someone who dropped in the gas pellets.

The fact that you need something like this explained to you doesn't surprise me.




And it doesn't surprise me in the least that you failed to read and understand the entire OP. Buchenwald was a forced labor and not an extermination camp. Ignorance breeds ignorance.

And I am not saying it was just a la di da place or that this guy did nothing wrong. I am saying he is not guilty of anything yet and all we know is he was a perimieter guard as a youth. And yet you and so many here are willing to indict him.

So again, where does this end? Do we indict the whole German military, regardless of their role? What of the German people that are still living?





dottyscrapper
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:21:26 PM

And it's been 70+ years. This feels a little like keeping it alive.




I think everyone has a responsibility to keep it alive because the alternative is to allow the possibility for a similar horror to happen again. "Lest we Forget"

I agree that he should be deported and let Germany deal with his prosecution.

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding by some posters about the forceful recruitment of 17 year olds in Nazi Germany at that time. Hitler Youth was in existence since 1926 and produced a generation of supporters of Nazi views. It was an organization for 10 to 18 year olds with the sole purpose of indoctrinating it's membership with Hitlers beliefs and ideology. There was a membership of over 2 million at the beginning of the war.

So not all were recruited against their will and we only have an individuals word whether they were or not.

Most, if not all of the people involved in the holocaust have led very quiet and secret lives, not necessarily because of guilt or repentance but to protect themselves from prosecution, wherever they are living.Guarding the perimiter fence is no defence IMO they KNEW what was going on beyond that fence.






ilovecookies
PeaFixture

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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:45:59 PM

This would already be a part of his past had he not lied about it and tried to hide it. No one would have been sympathetic about a 40-year-old Nazi camp guard getting caught lying about his past. Just because he was successful for 40 years longer than that doesn't change anything, and it sure doesn't change him into a sympathetic figure.


This.



obliolait
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:48:58 PM
deport and prosecute an old man while we use drones to bomb entire villages. we have our own holocausts to answer for. not to mention the complacency of the united states during this period - britain and the united states knew what was happening and had foreknowledge of nazi policy, yet they chose to shake hands with the devil.

wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:51:50 PM

America is not trying and convicting anyone of German war crimes. The man lied on his application for citizenship about his involvement in the Nazi regime, and therefore(in case you missed this part:




Really?

Then how do you explain

The Justice Department didn't respond to questions for comment on the Geiser case, which is part of its efforts to investigate former Nazis. Since the 1979 inception of the program, it has won more than 100 cases.




Especially in light of the fact that,

But Kurt Schrimm, the head of the special prosecutors' office in Germany that investigates Nazi war crimes, said they aren't currently investigating Geiser's case, and the Austrian Justice Ministry said it hasn't corresponded with American authorities.








Epeanymous
PeaFixture

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Posted: 12/3/2012 8:02:15 PM
We deport people for a lot less than that.

If he were being put to death, I might feel differently, but we do not have an affirmative obligation to provide residency or citizenship to former Nazis.

wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:26:37 PM

Why do you assume those cases are a trial and conviction in the US Justic system of war crimes?



You are being ridiculous. Please stop.





Investigating people who emigrated to America and are suspected of hiding their Nazi connections in order to stay here and obtain citizenship, with the purpose being to revoke citizenship when appropriate and deport them to face appropriate courts in another country is certainly under the jurisdiction of the Justice Department. You might want to delve deeper into what they are investigating and what happens in the 'won' cases.



And why do you assume I haven't? Please, this isn't a straight up illegal alien project the Justice Dept has taken on. If it was, I could sympathize more with the likes of Ms Brewer, when they have only a dismal 100 won cases since 1979.


And I get it, you think this is very important. That this ex Nazi, who as far as I can tell has not been formally accused of a crime, and who is apparently not wanted for any crime in his native country, should be denied his constitutional rights so easily and quickly. Yes, I get it. And I don't agree. ("I", since unlike you, I speak only for myself.)







wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:32:52 PM

I assume you haven't because you aren't linking information that corrects what I have said. You are telling me to stop...something - questioning?




I am telling you stop ASSUMING. To quit manipulating and to quit putting words into my mouth. I'm quite capable of putting forth my own opinions thank you.

And if you have a real interest in finding out why and how the Justicce Dept has adjudicated certain citizenship issues, then you can go find out on your own.

If you want to really discuss anything that I have posted, you are certainly welcome to. Instead, as usual, you twist and misprepresent what is said, paraphrase to the point of unrecognizability, and ignore wholesale anything that doesn't fit your POV. So if you detect a degree of uncivility in any of my responses, you may be right and should look to yourself for the explanation.








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