| |
FLCindy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 154,236
June 2004
Posts: 5,084
Layouts: 0
Loc: South Florida
 |  Posted: 1/16/2013 12:23:44 PM
Executive Action
Copied and pasted for Peas:
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
EMBARGOED UNTIL THE START OF THE PRESIDENT’S REMARKS
January 16, 2013
Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions
Today, the President is announcing that he and the Administration will:
1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and
institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health
services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements
within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental
health.
Your thoughts?
|
Cheers from Southeast Sunny Florida!
Cindy
 | |
|
|
leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 19,575
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 12:33:51 PM
Does any of that mean anything? No snark.
ETA - For example...
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
What's different here from what they already do?
|
If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
| |
|
|
JamieH
AncestralPea
PeaNut 39,057
May 2002
Posts: 4,574
Layouts: 0
Loc: Texas
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 12:38:15 PM
Mostly puff and fluff.
JamieH |
|
|
Burning Feather
I conceived but I can't see you
PeaNut 158,336
July 2004
Posts: 36,180
Layouts: 3
Loc: Ain't no black widow serial killer going to get between me and my man
| Posted: 1/16/2013 12:40:23 PM
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental
health.
These seem to be added just to make the number of items higher.
"Commit to finalizing" - you mean actually finish what you start?
"Launch a dialog" - let's all get together and talk about. . .
|
Carla
 <<<<<CLICK and see what's up at our place! Updated 4/7/2012.
| |
|
|
TinaFB
the lunatics have taken over the asylum
PeaNut 25,135
November 2001
Posts: 25,623
Layouts: 349
Loc: Maryland
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 12:42:01 PM
So wait, he's not taking our guns away or undoing the second amendment?
Most disappointing executive action ever.  |
Tina
| |
|
|
fishwitch
PeaNut
PeaNut 577,311
January 2013
Posts: 178
Layouts: 0
Loc: Texas
| Posted: 1/16/2013 12:43:12 PM
There were laws on the books designed to prevent the types of mass shootings that have already happened. People who obey the laws will just have more laws to abide by. Criminals are not going to suddenly start following these new gun laws.
I still hold that the problem in this nation cannot be laid solely at the feet of the pro-gun lobby. Our bigger problem is our broken mental health care system. |
| ~~Melani....once upon a time I was Sailorslady, now I'm just the fish | |
|
|
Nantini
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 274,935
August 2006
Posts: 5,099
Layouts: 8
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 12:47:28 PM
Looks like an empty lunch sack to me. All the promise and nothing to bite on.
I expect better. | |
|
Simply_Lovely
PeaFixture
PeaNut 463,295
April 2010
Posts: 3,282
Layouts: 3
Loc: New York City
 | |
PEArfect
AncestralPea
PeaNut 452,048
January 2010
Posts: 4,466
Layouts: 0
Loc: Indiana
| Posted: 1/16/2013 12:48:13 PM
It sounds to me like they are just stating what is already being done so it looks like they are taking action. |
|
|
SDeven
Love Letters Pea
PeaNut 65,852
January 2003
Posts: 28,197
Layouts: 380
Loc: Nashville, TN!
| Posted: 1/16/2013 12:54:07 PM
Reminds me of when I'm feeling the need to feel like I'm accomplishing something so I make a list of things to do...and I pad the list with things I've already done and things I can easily accomplish so it looks good to make "progress". |
|
|
leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 19,575
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 12:54:23 PM
Most disappointing executive action ever.
|
If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
| |
|
|
Shevy
Harley Riding Pea
PeaNut 10,051
January 2001
Posts: 7,249
Layouts: 9
Loc: 10,000 Lakes and Double Cities!
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 12:56:52 PM
I think at this point, anything that he said would be widely criticized. Either he's not doing enough or he's overstepping his bound doing more.
|
|
|
Peppermintpatty
AncestralPea
PeaNut 279,995
October 2006
Posts: 4,299
Layouts: 40
Loc: Peaing in Rockville, MD
| Posted: 1/16/2013 1:09:14 PM
That's a bunch of bull. Go for broke is my opinion. It doesn't say anything and it doesn't outline anything. |
|
|
ashwyness
PeaFixture
PeaNut 17,407
June 2001
Posts: 3,445
Layouts: 252
Loc: Austin, Texas ya'll
| Posted: 1/16/2013 1:13:05 PM
I read the list and then went to FB to see if the NRA friends are screaming the sky is falling yet.
They aren't. So, I guess our rights are not infringed on.
Of course FOX NEWS has this as "URGENT: 23 Executive Orders gun control."
ETA: FOX took the "Urgent" down, so there you go, its nothing.
| |
|
CraftChickaPowPow
PeaAddict
PeaNut 477,269
August 2010
Posts: 1,459
Layouts: 0
Loc: N 4720.2 W 12206.2
 |  Posted: 1/16/2013 1:14:22 PM
As expected. A lot of words that mean nothing. |
| They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. | |
|
|
*maureen*
Bad Wolf
PeaNut 191,892
February 2005
Posts: 5,301
Layouts: 0
Loc: Wheaton
| Posted: 1/16/2013 1:17:28 PM
He didn't try and take away our guns? Sweet- my cousin owes me $10 bucks. |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 1:20:00 PM
11. Nominate an ATF director.
Seriously, they should be embarrassed to put this on the list. He just this morning nominated the guy who has been acting director since 2011.
Reminds me of when I'm feeling the need to feel like I'm accomplishing something so I make a list of things to do...and I pad the list with things I've already done and things I can easily accomplish so it looks good to make "progress".
I think the ATF director thing is the ultimate in list padding. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
ePEAcenter
BucketHead
PeaNut 364,981
February 2008
Posts: 639
Layouts: 2
Loc: Texas Hill Country
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 1:37:14 PM
The first doctor who asks me about guns in my home will get quite an earful. Aren't doctors busy enough trying to administer health care?
| |
|
*rosebud*
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 228,820
October 2005
Posts: 5,340
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 1/16/2013 1:54:59 PM
The man is damned no matter what he does, heh?
He took action within the scope of his powers, which is the good, legal thing to do.
He is proposing an assault weapons ban AND all gun sales to require background checks. Very good things that are long overdue.
This list sounds to me like getting the infrastructure in place so that background checks will be more accurate and complete. Also good.
BTW, my pediatrician has asked about guns in the home for 14 years. I'm pretty sure that the American Academy of Pediatrics has encouraged peds to ask about guns in the home for many, many years. It's a risk for children, and safety should be discussed. It should be addressed in a well-child visit. | |
|
leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 19,575
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 1:59:31 PM
He is proposing an assault weapons ban AND all gun sales to require background checks.
He proposed something different from this list?
Federally licensed dealers do not handle all gun sales, and they already do background checks.
Where's the gun ban? I missed it.
|
If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
| |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 1:59:52 PM
The man is damned no matter what he does, heh?
No, I dont' agree. He and his VP have been pontificating how THEY will take EO action if the Congress will not. And yes, it appears at first glance to be a common sense to-do list of basic administrative tasks that should have and could have been done 4 years ago. The implication that he HAS to use EO's for this piddly list is an affront to Congress. I have to think there are some liberals who were salivating in anticipation of significant action today who are pretty disappointed at what is actually on the list.
I also think it entirely possible there are other things coming later (because face it, nothing on that list is going to prevent the next tragedy in the near future). At that time, people will say "gun regulation by EO is concerning" and the President's supporters will reply "yeah, that's what you said the last time and it was nothing big". The absurdity of the buildup by the administration of an EO "to do what Congress WON'T" rhetoric sounds like a setup for a 'cry wolf' scenario where the wolf is waiting awhile. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
ePEAcenter
BucketHead
PeaNut 364,981
February 2008
Posts: 639
Layouts: 2
Loc: Texas Hill Country
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:02:22 PM
Where's the gun ban? I missed it.
The list only contains the Executive orders. He has asked Congress to pass a ban on "assault" weapons and magazine above 10 rounds. | |
|
leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 19,575
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:07:41 PM
The list only contains the Executive orders. He has asked Congress to pass a ban on "assault" weapons and magazine above 10 rounds.
Thanks. I figured it was coming, but it wasn't in that list.
|
If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
| |
|
|
WillowJane
Running the Marathon, Not the Sprint
PeaNut 110,589
October 2003
Posts: 6,590
Layouts: 8
Loc: Texas
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:14:27 PM
The first doctor who asks me about guns in my home will get quite an earful. Aren't doctors busy enough trying to administer health care?
Mine already did - get an earful, that is. | |
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:22:22 PM
The first doctor who asks me about guns in my home will get quite an earful. Aren't doctors busy enough trying to administer health care?
Okay. I'm not in favor of MANDATING asking about guns. I'm not in favor of an interrogation.
I see "are firearms kept in the home? are they well secured?" as being on par with "is there a swimming pool at home? Is it well secured?" and "do you keep poisons and medications in a locked cabinet out of reach?" which are 2 questions our pediatrician asked. Any of those questions can be answered with a minimum of information and elaboration as the parent sees fit. If it's a checklist of safety questions, and the only notation made in the record is "yes, we asked about safety and discussed childproofing" then I'm not going to expend much energy or worry on that one,nor hold it against my doctor.
|
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,166
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:44:10 PM
11. Nominate an ATF director.
So the president said he would do his job. Great. He should be embarrassed to include this in this list.
Of course perhaps he should have done this years ago? Maybe had someone other than the present interim director who is only doing the job part time from Minnesota where he is a full time US Attorney?
The first doctor who asks me about guns in my home will get quite an earful.
I will give the exact same response I give to anyone who asks a question like that... none of your business.
He is proposing an assault weapons ban AND all gun sales to require background checks. Very good things that are long overdue.
Why are they 'very good things'? How are they 'long overdue' in particular the "assault weapons ban" was in place for 10 years and was a joke. There is a n assault weapons ban still in place in CT and that didn't stop the tragedy at Sandy Hook.
The list only contains the Executive orders. He has asked Congress to pass a ban on "assault" weapons and magazine above 10 rounds.
I don't see that passing either the House or the Senate.
|
 
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 2:47:41 PM
I don't see that passing either the House or the Senate.
Yeah, I heard some things this morning that indicate a very awkward Senate scenario with several Democrat senators up for re-election in 2014 from rural gun rights-type states. Waiting for Senate leadership to beg Obama to just bypass them entirely on that one too like they begged him not to bother with Congress on debt ceiling matters.  |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
*~*amanda*~*
...
PeaNut 393,905
October 2008
Posts: 6,606
Layouts: 0
Loc: Illinois
| Posted: 1/16/2013 3:01:24 PM
I don't see that these EOs will do much of anything, really.
There's nothing but a bunch of hot air in my opinion.
I don't remember who said it earlier, but I agree that the mental health system should be looked at as opposed to gun owners.
I say enforce the laws that are on the books already and that will help.
I also say that the people that are going to shoot up little first graders aren't going to be stopped because there is now an official director of the ATF. |
|
|
FLCindy
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 154,236
June 2004
Posts: 5,084
Layouts: 0
Loc: South Florida
| Posted: 1/16/2013 3:38:21 PM
ITA-fluff. |
Cheers from Southeast Sunny Florida!
Cindy
| |
|
|
Ouiser
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 196,226
March 2005
Posts: 8,845
Layouts: 0
Loc: in the South
| Posted: 1/16/2013 3:52:38 PM
Maybe it's the south or something, but I have never EVER been asked about guns, swimming pools or anything else in my house by my pediatrician when the girls were young or my Dr. Never even heard of any Dr. asking that except here at the pod. Now as a retired agent, we did ask about pools at the house for liability reasons. Then as long as it was fenced and gated, we would insure the house. But my Dr? Never. |
| http://www.swagbucks.com/refer/Ouiser | |
|
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,166
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 1/16/2013 3:58:33 PM
The more I look at this the more ridiculous it gets. Why was there the whole run up to this and the creepy 'signing' with children looking awkwardly on just for this nothing of a list of things to do?
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
If this hasn't already been happening... why hasn't the Attorney General been doing his job?
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
If there is not a law requiring background checks for private sellers... why would this even be on the list? It's ridiculous. Basically it means tell FFL's how to do something that nobody will ever do.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
So is the plan here is to copy the NRA programs? If not, then how exactly will the government pay for this and distribute it? I am guessing it will be more expensive and less effective than existing programs.
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Aren't they already doing this? Isn't that kind of their job?
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Seriously... what have our law enforcement officers been doing with their time if they have not already been doing this?
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Wait... I thought the NRA was "crazy" for suggesting that armed people (often called school resource officers) should be in more schools.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Isn't this the job of local law enforcement - not the federal government? Only the locals will know what their local resources are. Is the President is planning on flying in on Air Force One to lead the emergency response in the future?
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
Does anyone really think that 'dialogue' is the solution here?
|
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:01:02 PM
Mapchic, the ludicrousness of this list - basically telling his staff to start doing their jobs - makes me really wonder if they're setting up the cry wolf scenario I described earlier. Or else it's a distraction from the more controversial things they SAY they expect the Congress to take up.
I'm still waiting to hear how any of this stops an Adam Lanza or James Holmes over the next couple of years. I'm also curious as to which of these items he thinks are too controversial to be trusted to a Republican HOR.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
This are the closest to actually identifying and addressing the problem at hand of anything listed.
I'm curious what he defines as a "school resource officer", what 'incentives' he has in mind, if it involves an armed officer, and assuming it does, how the liberal peas who have been railing that they'll homeschool their children if an armed officer is assigned to their school are reacting to this liberal president's inclusion of this item on his to-do list. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker
PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 14,375
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:03:37 PM
I see "are firearms kept in the home? are they well secured?" as being on par with "is there a swimming pool at home? Is it well secured?" and "do you keep poisons and medications in a locked cabinet out of reach?" which are 2 questions our pediatrician asked. Any of those questions can be answered with a minimum of information and elaboration as the parent sees fit. If it's a checklist of safety questions, and the only notation made in the record is "yes, we asked about safety and discussed childproofing" then I'm not going to expend much energy or worry on that one,nor hold it against my doctor.
THANK YOU!!
Anyone who would give a doctor "an earful" for asking a routine question related to safety in the home makes my wing-nut list. |
LUCYG
northern california
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell
 | |
|
|
Just Lizzy
Original Pea #5005
PeaNut 19,817
August 2001
Posts: 20,127
Layouts: 54
Loc: On the rocky shores of life... AKA Mid-Missouri
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:17:27 PM
Those "executive orders" contain as much substance as the President does. In other words, none. |
|
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,166
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:20:29 PM
Anyone who would give a doctor "an earful" for asking a routine question related to safety in the home makes my wing-nut list.
Is that the list of people you bully by calling them derogatory names mean girl style?
I would tell any doctor that whether or not there are guns in my home is none of their business. I was raised to always say that to anyone asking that question and I think it in general a good policy.
I do remember having a conversation about guns with one of my doctors... because I noticed a magazine on her desk and we chatted briefly about our favorite types of guns and exchanged opinions on different local ranges. I tried hers out and ran into her a couple months later.
That's about the only way I think doctors should be talking to patients about guns if the patient or a family member hasn't been injured with a gun and/or there isn't a mental health reason to discuss the issue.
Mapchic, the ludicrousness of this list - basically telling his staff to start doing their jobs - makes me really wonder if they're setting up the cry wolf scenario I described earlier.
If that is their long term strategy I think they underestimate the NRA and the response of gun owners.
In November there were 2 million NICS background checks. In December the number jumped to 2.7 million. The NICS background checks can be considered a rough estimate of the number of guns sold (some people may not buy a gun, some people will get one background check to purchase several guns).
It appears that there were enough guns sold in America in the last two months of 2012 to outfit the entire Chinese and Indian standing armies with one gun each.
Whatever this administration is doing it is most assuredly NOT slowing down gun sales... rather it is increasing them. Likely increasing the numbers of gun owners in this country who will fight any steps they try to take in the future.
This whole issue seems to have riled the NRA and their members. Membership in the NRA is growing rapidly and the NRA is not backing down. They have created a new campaign called NRA Stand and Fight where the promotions say "Media may speak for elites, but America will speak for itself. The NRA plans to stand and fight."
|
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
ilovecookies
PeaAddict
PeaNut 506,197
April 2011
Posts: 1,992
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:23:04 PM
So wait, he's not taking our guns away or undoing the second amendment?
And yet, so many of the chicken littles who were screaming that Obama was going to take all their rights and guns away are now accusing him of doing nothing or not enough. That's just rich. | |
|
scrapjulia
PeaNut
PeaNut 335,340
September 2007
Posts: 183
Layouts: 9
Loc: mount vernon wa
| Posted: 1/16/2013 4:48:07 PM
Here is a comprehensive look at the proposals...
Obama's gun control proposal
As well as some clarification on the ATF director nomination.
web page
I'm still reading and digesting this plan but did want to address the resource officer comments. I believe it has been well covered on this board that there is a big difference between resource officers and armed guards? Our resource officers are police officers with tactical team training and a spectrum of tasks at the schools in our district. |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:07:39 PM
I believe it has been well covered on this board that there is a big difference between resource officers and armed guards? Our resource officers are police officers with tactical team training and a spectrum of tasks at the schools in our district.
Yes it's been well covered that school resource officers, at least at the schools where they exist in pealand, are police officers assigned to work at a school all day. The "armed guard" was never defined, but some peas seemed to think that it was some guy marching guard at the entrance with a rifle or something and scaring everyone to death. I believe mention was made derisively of a "prison atmosphere", so maybe they're picturing them perched in towers?
I don't think anyone stated they had an "armed guard" of that sort. However, there were lots of moms fully prepared (or so they claimed) to immediately pull their child out for homeschooling if the school had an officer with a gun assigned to their child's school.
As for whether the school resource officer is armed, that has been my experience - sort of the definition, imo. If you are a police officer on duty, regardless of whether that duty is in a school building, you carry a weapon just like any other police officer. School resource officers are police officers where I live.
So again, IF that is what Obama refers to in that list item, and I would hesitate to assume that because you just never know with this administration what they actually mean, are the mamas, who were horrified at an armed resource officer, ready to fight that presidential action item of giving schools an incentive to bring them on board? |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
angievp
Ideay pues?
PeaNut 143,106
April 2004
Posts: 6,643
Layouts: 36
Loc: Miami
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:19:51 PM
So let me get this straight:
In the previous post on this issue, the Peas basically predicted the end of the Constitution as we know it because President Obama SURELY would erase the Second Amendment with a flourish of his pen when signing any Executive order relating to gun control, which would be the first steps towards his goal of a Hitlerian and/or Totalitarian society where Big Government would crush its citizens!!!! (insert horror music)
BUT NOW, the man is ineffective because he fell short of his goal?
You all are hard to please! DANG! | |
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:24:20 PM
In the previous post on this issue, the Peas basically predicted the end of the Constitution as we know it because President Obama SURELY would erase the Second Amendment with a flourish of his pen when signing any Executive order relating to gun control, which would be the first steps towards his goal of a Hitlerian and/or Totalitarian society where Big Government would crush its citizens!!!! (insert horror music)
Can you link to the post that said that?
BUT NOW, the man is ineffective because he fell short of his goal?
You all are hard to please! DANG!
you imply that you believe his initiatives ARE effective. Are they effective in reasonably protecting against another Sandy Hook or Sikh Temple or Aurora Theater - type shooting? Which specific items do you see as effective? Do we actually understand the root causes (not the tools, the causes) of those shootings so we can say with confidence the x, y, and z will be effective in preventing a sequel? |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,073
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:37:56 PM
This list is simply political smoke and mirrors which is fine with me. However it isn't all he plans. He has proposed legislation to ban "assault" rifles which again is political posturing since there is no such thing as an assault rifle in the gun world.. But any legislation like that would have to go through congress.
I'm glad to see the list. It means he thinks he has to make a big to-do over all the big mean nasty guns to please his left-wing supporters but in reality he knows he has no real power to do anything that would infringe on the 2nd and 10th Amendments. I don't believe him when he says he's a supporter of the 2nd Amendment but I'm glad he is following the limitations in place by the Constitution. I don't trust him, but I'm glad this list is all bark and no bite. | |
|
Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,073
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:42:11 PM
In the previous post on this issue, the Peas basically predicted the end of the Constitution as we know it because President Obama SURELY would erase the Second Amendment with a flourish of his pen when signing any Executive order relating to gun control, which would be the first steps towards his goal of a Hitlerian and/or Totalitarian society where Big Government would crush its citizens!!!! (insert horror music)
I think someone needs to go back and read the full thread again. All the posts. This summary is not at all what was predicted in that thread. | |
|
*maureen*
Bad Wolf
PeaNut 191,892
February 2005
Posts: 5,301
Layouts: 0
Loc: Wheaton
| Posted: 1/16/2013 5:46:09 PM
I think someone needs to go back and read the full thread again. All the posts. This summary is not at all what was predicted in that thread.
No it was much more like, "how dare he sign an executive order taking away my second amendment rights, doesn't he know how the government is supposed to work." Turns out he does. |
|
|
wren*walk
PeaAddict
PeaNut 481,431
September 2010
Posts: 1,822
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 1/16/2013 6:32:06 PM
I think it is a good start.
The list is full of common sense proposals with wide public approval. Only the wingnuts will cry about any of these.
And it is appropriate and politcially astute to place the larger issue of magazine and semi bans to the Congress. Let it be on them. I hope they have all their recent polling problems sorted out.
Round One=Obama.
| |
|
scrapjulia
PeaNut
PeaNut 335,340
September 2007
Posts: 183
Layouts: 9
Loc: mount vernon wa
| Posted: 1/16/2013 6:37:51 PM
Yes it's been well covered that school resource officers, at least at the schools where they exist in pealand, are police officers assigned to work at a school all day. The "armed guard" was never defined, but some peas seemed to think that it was some guy marching guard at the entrance with a rifle or something and scaring everyone to death. I believe mention was made derisively of a "prison atmosphere", so maybe they're picturing them perched in towers?
As mentioned many times in the threads since Newtown language is important. Guard and officer do not have the same meaning. The "would you pay more taxes for an armed guard in your school" asked a very specific question. There were questions regarding high schools with a large campus and multiple entrances and how the guard scenario would play out. It's really comparing apples and oranges though, and I just don't agree that their responses to that thread can be applied to SROs. |
|
|
Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/16/2013 6:44:31 PM
Scrapjulia, here is the thread where that was discussed. "Armed guard" was not really defined, but there were statements of the sort "if someone is armed in my child's school I'm going to homeschool!" and not one person who spoke against the idea said "I don't know what an armed guard is, but an armed police officer working as a school resource officer would be okay with me." People DID describe their school resource officers, who are armed police officers, and still the opinion was that there should not be anyone armed on school grounds. So there was no distinction given by the people who are against armed anything at schools. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
| |
|
|
PunchPrincess
PeaNut 17,063
June 2001
Posts: 12,660
Layouts: 0
Loc: where 71 and 70 meet
| Posted: 1/16/2013 6:45:51 PM
I still hold that the problem in this nation cannot be laid solely at the feet of the pro-gun lobby.
You are right. Where is the pro-atomic bomb lobby? Shouldn't we be opening up uranium stores and trusting that law abiding bomb owners won't set them off and kill 26 people on a Friday morning? |
<*********************************************************************>
PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )
| |
|
|
scrapjulia
PeaNut
PeaNut 335,340
September 2007
Posts: 183
Layouts: 9
Loc: mount vernon wa
| Posted: 1/16/2013 6:54:39 PM
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Isn't this the job of local law enforcement - not the federal government? Only the locals will know what their local resources are. Is the President is planning on flying in on Air Force One to lead the emergency response in the future?
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
Does anyone really think that 'dialogue' is the solution here?
Develop a model emergency plan. I do believe a best practice can be designed without the use of air force one. And a model can be adapted to meet the needs of the community. Why have thousands of schools and churches recreate the wheel?
A dialogue is not the solution but it needs to happen to create broad reaching policy. The "I am Adam Lazlos mother" piece made that even more clear. |
|
|
scrapjulia
PeaNut
PeaNut 335,340
September 2007
Posts: 183
Layouts: 9
Loc: mount vernon wa
| Posted: 1/16/2013 7:32:21 PM
Scrapjulia, here is the thread where that was discussed. "Armed guard" was not really defined, but there were statements of the sort "if someone is armed in my child's school I'm going to homeschool!" and not one person who spoke against the idea said "I don't know what an armed guard is, but an armed police officer working as a school resource officer would be okay with me." People DID describe their school resource officers, who are armed police officers, and still the opinion was that there should not be anyone armed on school grounds. So there was no distinction given by the people who are against armed anything at schools.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. The question asked was would you pay more taxes to have armed guards in schools. The general consensus was no, I would not pay more taxes as well as many questions on what the armed guard scenario would look like. Yes, there were some great points later in the thread regarding resource officers, but well after most had weighed in with their opinions, therefore the earlier opinions applied to armed guards rather than resource officers.
|
|
|
Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,073
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 1/16/2013 7:35:08 PM
No it was much more like, "how dare he sign an executive order taking away my second amendment rights, doesn't he know how the government is supposed to work." Turns out he does.
You should go back and read the entire thread again. That is not what was said. | |
|
Pete & Nico
