File this under, "You have got to be kidding me." Ukrainian Jews told to register.

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Posted 4/17/2014 by beachgurl in NSBR Board
 

beachgurl
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:00:13 PM

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website



USA Today article

Newsweek article




schizo319
...And now it's time for a breakdown

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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:04:25 PM
WTF? Did we time travel back to 1938?



Peppermintpatty
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:07:02 PM





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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:09:16 PM
This is not good. I haven't commented on any of these posts. But I will say that Russia taking over Ukraine going to effect the entire world. This is not a small issue and I really hope it doesn't turn out to be as bad as some think it will be.

busypea
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:13:40 PM
I read this earlier today. Horrifying. I hope we don't just stand by and think nothing will come of it. I don't yet know what exactly I think we should do, but it definitely shouldn't be wait and see IMO.

Sister BDSQ
Fatty McWeirdboob

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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:14:19 PM
I have argued with a co-worker about Putin, about Russia and about how this Ukraine issue will effect all.

anxiousmom
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:15:11 PM
My 15 year old son and I were discussing Putin and the situation in Russia. At one point he said something to the effect of "just like Hitler."

We moved on to a different topic, but my goodness-how prophetic that conversation sounds today.

Epeanymous
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:17:34 PM

WTF? Did we time travel back to 1938


You can time travel back further -- it is not like there weren't plenty of pogroms in Ukraine and Russia in the pre-Hitler era.

Anyhow, some of the stories I have read have been more skeptical that the leaflets are connected to any official government action than others, so I am trying to hold out hope that this is isolated terrifying action rather than government-sponsored terrifying action, but that's not exactly the best-case scenario you hope for either, obviously.

jen1021
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:22:41 PM
This is very scary.


Jen




lucyg819
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:28:15 PM
Russia has always hated its Jews, and honestly, Ukraine doesn't have a great history, either.


LUCYG
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
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Donna in GA
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:28:15 PM
I just saw this and my first thought was that history was repeating itself. How terrifying this must be for Jews in the area.

MizIndependent
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:40:55 PM
Holy sh*t. It's as though the world has learned nothing.



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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:45:33 PM

I echo the have we learned nothing sentiment. This poem expressed what should never happen again (country doesn't matter- it shouldn't happen ever again)

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."


They may not have officially "come yet" but I have zero faith that Putin will do right by anyone. He's a monster.



AnonPeaName
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:47:33 PM
Oh no!!! Wish it was April first...

StampNScrap1128
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:11:07 PM
This makes my stomach turn. Scary!

Mary in OK




Nantini
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:20:00 PM

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."


I had just thought of this same thing when reading the first post.

beachgurl
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:26:54 PM
"Jews are the default scapegoat throughout history for despots to send a message to the general public: Don't step out of line

quote from the end of the USAToday article.




*christine*
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:29:08 PM
That's just horrifying. My mouth literally dropped reading that. How can anyone think this is OK.


~Christine~

If we weren't all crazy we would go insane!!!

FarmDPea
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:29:57 PM


As a PP said, we can't sit by and do nothing, but what do you do?



Dalai Mama
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:34:25 PM
Given how they treat gays, did people seriously think that other minority groups were going to be immune?


Jo Mama

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Annabella
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:37:11 PM
I don't think we should jump to any conclusions here. It said masked people gave out the flyers, doesn't sound like anything govt official. Plus I'm sure this isn't the policy in Russia so why would they make it a policy in their new territory. I'm sure this just an act of a non-govt sponsored group.




mamashosh
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:11:13 PM

I don't think we should jump to any conclusions here. It said masked people gave out the flyers, doesn't sound like anything govt official. Plus I'm sure this isn't the policy in Russia so why would they make it a policy in their new territory. I'm sure this just an act of a non-govt sponsored group.


So if it is "just an act of a non-govt sponsored group", it is ok? Seems pretty terrifying,disgusting and pernicious either way.

Fraidyscrapper
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:17:08 PM
Annabella, it's fair to be circumspect. But given the history of Russia, and of Ukraine, isn't it worth being concerned that this sentiment is suddenly emboldened to come out of the woodwork? It's because of the history of Ukraine that this is so particularly pernicious.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

Constance
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:18:43 PM
A member of a "non-govt sponsored group" just killed three members of my community this week outside two Jewish institutions.

This is scary. Hard to believe it's 2014... I thought we had come further as a human race.

dottyscrapper
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:22:06 PM

I don't think we should jump to any conclusions here. It said masked people gave out the flyers, doesn't sound like anything govt official. Plus I'm sure this isn't the policy in Russia so why would they make it a policy in their new territory. I'm sure this just an act of a non-govt sponsored group.


I agree.
As grotesque as these leaflets are they were not given out by any Russian Officials.In fact they've been condemned by the Russian Foreign Minister in Geneva today. They were given out by Pro Russian Separatists who live in Ukraine. These armed militia have also seized armoured vehicles and weapons from Ukrainian Forces in the east of Ukraine.The Ukraine government is struggling to control the pro Russian uprising in the eastern region.
There are a lot of pro Russian sympathizers in the Eastern region of Ukraine.

I still don't trust Putin though but on this one, it doesn't seem that he sanctioned any of this!




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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:22:42 PM
Anti Semitism is disgusting no matter what nationality the person hides behind.

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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:23:54 PM
He didn't officially sanction it. How many despicable things did Hitler not "sanction"? And people wanted to excuse him until they couldn't anymore.

Fraidyscrapper
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:24:13 PM

I still don't trust Putin though but on this one, it doesn't seem that he sanctioned any of this!
I'm sorry, you don't think Putin has supported the pro-Russian groups in Ukraine?


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

mamashosh
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:24:30 PM
I am not disagreeing that this might be some fringe group, not official policy. I do, however, disagree that we are jumping to conclusions that this is a scary, disgusting, offensive, and potentially violent turn of events directed at Jews.

flanz
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:24:39 PM





You can time travel back further -- it is not like there weren't plenty of pogroms in Ukraine and Russia in the pre-Hitler era.

Anyhow, some of the stories I have read have been more skeptical that the leaflets are connected to any official government action than others, so I am trying to hold out hope that this is isolated terrifying action rather than government-sponsored terrifying action, but that's not exactly the best-case scenario you hope for either, obviously.


Me too!

AngelKriC
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:24:52 PM

Annabella, it's fair to be circumspect. But given the history of Russia, and of Ukraine, isn't it worth being concerned that this sentiment is suddenly emboldened to come out of the woodwork? It's because of the history of Ukraine that this is so particularly pernicious.


I'm normally of the 'wait and see' and 'this is probably a rogue group of idiots' camp. However, I agree with Jo in this case. With the way that they treat gays and other minorities in their country, this is not something that we should wait around and see what happens. By then, it may be too late.


Krissy

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irishscrappermom8
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:36:25 PM
I read about this earlier today and actually was physically ill.

I pray that the rest of the world does not just sit back and do nothing.




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Kymberlee
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Posted: 4/17/2014 3:49:53 PM
So, what do we do? THings have been spiraling out of control in regards to Russia and Ukraine for a while now, and we shake our fingers at Russia while Putin laughs at us. I agree this was probably a "fringe" group and not sponsored by the gov't of Russia, but I don't believe for one second that it isn't a tactic by those that are pro Russia to scare those that support Ukraine's wish to be independent. It is a scare tactic plain and simple that probably has Putin's "wink and a nod" if not his actual "approval", if that makes sense.





molove
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:22:49 PM
All I can think about is Elie Wiesel--

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

You wouldn't think this could be happening again, yet it is.

Monklady123
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:24:53 PM
I don't think it's anything "official". Still awful though. But you know, this sort of thing happens in this country too. Obviously we've heard the news lately. But prejudice happens that doesn't make the news. I have a friend who is a rabbi of a local congregation here, in the middle of a politically liberal county that has HUGE diversity. And yet the synagogue receives hate mail and threats pretty regularly. At Jewish holidays they always have a county police officer there, who parks his car on the street directly in front of the door, positioned to block some wacko's car bomb.

I think it's horrifying that we have so much prejudice still, no matter which country it's in. But at least in this country we have the law behind us. If I were Jewish in the Ukraine or Russia or anywhere over there I would worry all the time.



dottyscrapper
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:28:05 PM

I still don't trust Putin though but on this one, it doesn't seem that he sanctioned any of this!
I'm sorry, you don't think Putin has supported the pro-Russian groups in Ukraine?



I don't think the pro Russian separatists groups that are in Ukraine need anyone's support to be honest. They will fight for what they believe in whether Moscow supports them or not. They're determined on getting that region of Ukraine back to Russia.


I do, however, disagree that we are jumping to conclusions that this is a scary, disgusting, offensive, and potentially violent turn of events directed at Jews.


I certainly wasn't jumping to conclusions on the disgusting, offensive, and potentially violent turn of events directed at Jews.I completely agree with you it is all of those.
I agreed with Annabella because I took her " jumping to conclusions" to mean that we shouldn't assume that it was an official Russian government directive or the Ukraine government directive, which it wasn't.



Sue_Pea
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:41:39 PM
No one knows who did it or why, but several sources seem to think that it was done to discredit the pro-Russian movement in Ukraine.

But it doesn't really matter who did it. It occurred to someone to use Jews as a provocation. Anti-Semitism is on the rise world-wide. Those two facts should give us all pause.


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LisaLisa
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:48:44 PM
I am horrified by this. I don't know what else to say.


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GaJenny
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:02:45 PM
Horrible. Whether it's "real" or not...or sanctioned or not by Putin, it really makes me wonder how far someone (Putin...or any other leader) could go before the world said "No more...we're not going to do this again...we're not going to allow this to happen again".

BeckyTech
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:30:33 PM

I'm sure this just an act of a non-govt sponsored group.
The problem is that it gets a wink and a nod by government officials. It has been published that Putin denied it was official, but have you heard that he was outraged over it? Didn't think so. These things have a way of snowballing, especially (as others have pointed out) in a region that has such a violent anti-Semitic past. This is frightening.

mdoc
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:31:34 PM
I find it difficult to believe that this was put out by the pro-Russian group it purports to be from. I cannot think of a better way to insure that the west stops its policy of appeasement and invokes sanctions against Putin and Russia. There were already enough similarities between the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and the situation in 1938 with Hitler and the Sudetenland. In any event, no matter who is responsible for these leaflets, it is reprehensible.

Fraidyscrapper
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:37:46 PM

I don't think the pro Russian separatists groups that are in Ukraine need anyone's support to be honest. They will fight for what they believe in whether Moscow supports them or not. They're determined on getting that region of Ukraine back to Russia.
I don't really understand this kind of sentiment, but since it's counter factual, it doesn't really matter. Russia has been providing material support to this group and increased it exponentially as the EU deal approached.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

Enough
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:58:02 PM
I can't help but notice the many comments showing amazement that history could repeat itself and in 2014, no less.
That is all.










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ebarb63
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Posted: 4/17/2014 9:00:07 PM
It's worrisome for sure. It makes you wonder if this is really the beginning of something horrible to come. Hope not but the situation in there is so unpredictable. Scary stuff.

freecharlie
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:42:17 PM

I find it difficult to believe that this was put out by the pro-Russian group it purports to be from. I cannot think of a better way to insure that the west stops its policy of appeasement and invokes sanctions against Putin and Russia. There were already enough similarities between the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and the situation in 1938 with Hitler and the Sudetenland. In any event, no matter who is responsible for these leaflets, it is reprehensible
I agree with this. I had just told DH that doing going after the Jews ensured that they didn't have the support of the world.


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Mom X 1
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:57:19 PM
[But it doesn't really matter who did it. It occurred to someone to use Jews as a provocation. Anti-Semitism is on the rise world-wide. Those two facts should give us all pause.[/quote]

Exactly


We may not know who is behind it but the fact that anyone did this is reprehensible.

Monkeylady, I'm equally disturbed about the anti-Semitic actions that are threatened and occur in our country!



"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with a man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him...or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He did not leave that option open to us. He did not intend to."

C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity

GrinningCat
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:53:28 AM
When I read about that yesterday, I had to check the dates because I was certain I had accidentally fallen into my WWII research. Scary that it's modern day... but not all that surprising because of this:

Given how they treat gays, did people seriously think that other minority groups were going to be immune?
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