Another chance to share my Donna Downey boycott reasons

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Posted 11/10/2009 by clee321 in NSBR Board
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lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:04:57 PM

Sorry, Lucy!! I worded that so it came out not as intended. Hence my point...

I only mentioned you as saying that you didn't know Donna...not what you thought about her intent.

I don't think I said anything about whether I know Donna or not, either ... but whatever. As long as we're both on the same page here. I did not make the statement you attributed to me.

texsmama
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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:05:52 PM
YAY for Sharon! What an ordeal you have gone through with this cancer.







clee321
It is always easier to edit than it is to create

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:07:32 PM

I am absolutely, 100% completely and unequivocably behind the concept of forgive and move on. EVERYONE deserves a second chance.

I will not in any way, shape or form support Donna Downey, her products, her line or her "vision".



These two sentences/ways of thinking seem to be absolutely contradictory. I don't get how you can believe the first yet continue to espouse the second.


for me they are not contradictory and I share the same thoughts.

Here is why FOR ME they aren't.

I feel DD had more than one opportunity to apologize and correct what happened. I feel she has ample opportunity to accept that her organization and in the end SHE had handled this situation inappropriately.

I feel that in my observation she had more than a second chance and she continually blew through them.

So, when the dust settled, I was on the side of boycotting her for her poor customer service, poor business processes AND b/c she was willing to blame her poor processes/service on a person suffering with a disease.


ArlaMo
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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:09:35 PM
My apologies again, Lucy. This was the post I was referencing:


I'm sure the people in donna's life (family, friends) have forgiven her. I, however, am not a "person in her life." I am a customer. Not my job to give her a second chance if I don't feel like it.

Peabay
Happy now?

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:13:36 PM

but I am pretty sure (fingers crossed) that I will be deemed cancer free soon- just my little update in case anybody was interested)


Very interested and very glad!

Scrapper_Girl
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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:16:19 PM

s it Maya Angelou who says, "When a person shows you who they really are, believe them" ? I think DD showed her true self in her posts on that original thread.


Another great quote: "Character is what we do when we think no one is looking", or something to that effect.

cori in wa
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:19:40 PM
ArlaMo, therein lies my point. DD blew her second and third and any other chance clear out of the water. It wasn't the initial issue that caused me to boycott her business, and I would venture to guess that is true for many posting here, it was her continual disregard for a customer, a person and fellow scrapper that created my stance.

Sharon, thank you for sharing your uplifting news. Bless you and all that you've endured.

~Sandy~
*Sassy Latin Pea*

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:31:37 PM
DD is on my boycott sh*t list...that lady was a b*tch!

NEVER will I buy anything from her.

jenettycakes76
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:36:45 PM

(FYI... I had that May5th surgery, another Sept 18th and again Oct 27th. The good news is they thought they were going to have to take my upper left jaw and reconstruct with my fibula but they didn't have to. The cancer lifted out this last time, was not attached or embedded in the bone. They drilled out as much as they could and put a bunch of fat/tissue from my thigh in my face. I have a big scar on my face - and my thigh-but I am pretty sure (fingers crossed) that I will be deemed cancer free soon- just my little update in case anybody was interested)
Oh so many uplifting hugs & hoorays for you! Honestly that is the best news I've heard yet. That is excellent to hear your upper jaw was spared. What a relief for you and your family. How are you doing at this very moment?

I had a culture regarding my sinus tumor last week (god it was pretty painful when they took it) & am having my second surgery next week - I couldn't help but to think of you & your recovery. Was your original tumor embedded in jaw bone or cheekbone? Mine was cheekbone depressing optical & teeth nerves (beign). I am having such pain at times, aching & throbbing at others, with left side of my face after my surgery (Caldwell Luc to get tumor & file off part of bone). Did you have pain in that general area for quite some time?

As for DD - not even going to waste my breath regarding her business ethics & practices.

to your recovery! Such WONDERFUL NEWS!

gemini_jen
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:37:18 PM
Another lurker who stopped buying DD products. I also stopped subscribing to all of her updates/newsletters, and also hesitate to purchase from any of her sponsors.

1edgePea
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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:46:16 PM
Hold the phone. It is my siggy some find ironic - Batya has not participated in this thread, so don't talk smack about her. I quoted something said a while back, but she is not on this thread. Know who you are laughing at for Pete's sake.

It is me you find ironic, which is complete b.s. because nothing I've said is ironic. You would know this if you read any of my responses regarding this subject. My compassion goes 100% to Sharon - and I specifically stated that I felt strongly that DD did NOT show compassion as she continued to refuse to refund the class fees. Not only that, she refused to let Sharon GIVE THE FREAKING TICKET AWAY. Now where is the compassion there?

So, no irony. You absolutely cannot say that my comments are ironic because I have supported every single thing I've said with examples of what happened in this situation. If there is any irony to be found, it is that you want to give a passive-aggressive handslap without knowing what the heck you are talking about. Please! If you don't know the whole story, keep your handslaps to yourself.

[ETA: Consumers have the choice of how to spend their money and it is always in the business owners best interest to live by the rule that the customer is always right. As a consumer, I make my buying decisions based upon common sense and wise investment - compassion has nothing to do with what businesses I buy product from. Therefore, the whole compassionate argument is moot when it comes to money because whenever I buy something I have something to lose.]

molove
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:04:16 PM
"So there" is from the Stacy Julian disaster.

Donna Downey handled that situation like crap and I think it hurt her and her business a lot. She made a mistake and admitted it.

My question: when is someone forgiven?

beadhound
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:08:14 PM

Hold the phone. It is my siggy some find ironic - Batya has not participated in this thread, so don't talk smack about her. I quoted something said a while back, but she is not on this thread. Know who you are laughing at for Pete's sake.


That is ALMOST siggy wory right there. Batya will come in tonight and read the thread and say to herself, "W. T F."

**ScrapWench**
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:16:04 PM

My question: when is someone forgiven?


Even her "apology" on her blog was unapologetic. She never once said "I screwed up, I should have done this and I didn't and I am terribly sorry" Her "apology" was consisted of "I have learned" and other total BS.

Go back and read her blog post in the days after the debacle. It was astonishing.

molove
Gabby Pea

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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:20:49 PM
I did read through all the pages here and her blog. Like I said, she handled it like crap.

For some people I don't think they will ever forgive her. Not in a million years. That transgression was too evil.
Others could give a hoot, it's just paper and stickers, etc.

I guess I'm thinking about forgiveness today because that DC Sniper is about to be executed tonight. I don't think I could forgive him. I think what's about to happen to him is just. I also think there is so much violence right now. Everyday it's something incredibly violent. So, violence, crime, forgiveness, stupid business decisions, all that swirling.

Kerri W
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:22:24 PM

My question: when is someone forgiven?


Here is my thought process on forgiveness in this situation.

If Donna Downey was my friend I would try my best to resolve the issues between us and work on forgiveness.

I have different feelings about DD the *BUSINESS* Two years ago Office Depot treated me very poorly as a customer. After many emails, phone calls and working my way up to the regional manager I informed them I would no longer do business with them and I haven't set foot in their door since.

In that two years I have purchased three laptops, started a business and sent two kids to college. Care to think how much $$ I spent elsewhere?!

It takes a lot to push me over that line, but once I'm there with a *BUSINESS* I don't go back. Especially in this economy where so many companies are doing backflips to survive.

Chlerbie
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:27:27 PM
Yeah, I won't buy her products after that either. I think that early in the thread, when she first appeared, some were ready to give her the benefit of the doubt, but then when her cohort came in it just all derailed and I felt that nothing about it was sincere. If you've got to be beaten over the head with a bag of bricks to feel compassion, I think that there's something wrong there.

I also didn't like her flippant "who cares" when she mentioned people not buying her products. I have a feeling she's cared a lot about it since then.

cori in wa
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:27:34 PM
<My question: when is someone forgiven?>

Being forgiven and supporting through business sales are two entirely different things.

Forgiven: From my standpoint, sure. But in this situation that is really Sharons decision/choice.

Support: Never. Gonna. Happen.

ETA, re: the DC sniper execution. I believe you can forgive someone (again, not my place in this situation, but it is absolutely conceivable)and also believe they should pay the penatly of their sin/crime. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

lalakme
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:35:32 PM

My question: when is someone forgiven?


Forgiveness is different than trust. Just because I forgave someone for something does not mean I have to be their best friend.

If someone molested your child, you could perhaps get to a place where you can forgive that person. But are you ever going to trust or support that person again? Highly doubtful, and if you think that's what it means to forgive, you will only find yourself being abused yet again.

I'm sure many people on this thread have forgiven DD for her actions. But that doesn't mean they have to ever trust her business practices ever again.

Goddss
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:38:48 PM
Popped back in to see Sharon's update!!!

Holy Smack girl that is so awesome!!! I am totally excited for you. Cancer Free are the two best words ever!!!

Hugs to you Sharon!!!

You are amazing!!! I support YOU 100%

TT
M

bizzymumma
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:40:33 PM
Being forgiven doesn't mean there still won't be consequences.

beadhound
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:48:30 PM

Batya - I hope you don't feel invisible. (She posted on the second page about a third of the way down.)

Who's Batya?









1edgePea
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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:50:18 PM

Batya - I hope you don't feel invisible. (She posted on the second page about a third of the way down.)
*SNORT* I can't believe I didn't see her. Batya, you know you aren't invisible to me. I just don't want you to be blamed for something that was on me and had nothing to do with anything you said on this thread.

SDeven
Love Letters Pea

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Posted: 11/10/2009 7:52:13 PM
Not to beat a dead horse, but no one has mentioned that Mr. Donna Downey (her husband--I can't remember his name) was the first to speak on the phone to the pea in question and he felt confident enough to tell her it would not be a problem to get her a refund.

I happen to fall into the camp that believes if your person speaks for your company, you are obligated morally to stand behind what that person says.

Saying I forgive Mrs. Downey is not my place. She did nothing to trespass against me. She did not wrong me...so there is no forgiveness to be given from me.

She conducted business in a manner that is not appealing to me. So I choose not support her business. Forgiveness is personal. A boycot is about making a statement.

batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

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Posted: 11/10/2009 8:08:45 PM
OK. I was about to quote Arla and ask, WTH? When I though, WTF (ok, Beadhound?) and then I said--hey maybe I was being harsh. I re-read my post. And then read the rest of the thread and said, am I on ignore? Is my post not there? Was that a different thread?

I turned signatures on/off/on. Thank you edgepea for standing up for me. Whether I needed it or not! What did crazy newbie trolls have to do with this?!

I talked not about her personally, but about her business sense. So maybe I did NOT sound compassionate. DD might be a lovely person. I don't know and it's not relevant. She presented herself and her business badly. Her lackey came and made things worse. She treated a customer badly and her intent was also irrelevant b/c what came through to customers and potential customers was all that mattered.

Sharon, I am so thrilled to hear about your progress and wish you only good health. What a bumpy road you've had for too long.

ArlaMo
PeaNut

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Posted: 11/10/2009 8:57:20 PM
My apologies, Batya. I did look at the signature, knew you had posted but didn't go back to check that the two were synced in one post. My bad.

And am I the newbie troll you're referring to? Not sure. I've been around quite a long time though I tend to post on mostly non-controversial threads.

Certainly not trying to step on anyone's toes, but I recently had a very similar experience (not in the scrapbooking industry, thank goodness) with a family member whose business was absolutely ruined by statements made on the internet. This family member also offered an apology, but it was considered, very much like Donna's, too little, too late. And that response was so far off base, it makes me cry to think about it. I was simply asking a few questions, trying to see it from the other side based on my own recent experience.

Mimima
Stay Gold, Ponyboy

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Posted: 11/10/2009 8:59:45 PM

And am I the newbie troll you're referring to?


She's talking about *her* signature line, not the one in which she is quoted. In her line, she talks about "Ok, Newbie, this is how it works..." (and it is brilliant)

I always love seeing, quoting, and interacting with Batya. She rocks.


ArlaMo
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Posted: 11/10/2009 9:07:09 PM
Ahhhh, thanks Mimima! Too much interaction with persons under the age of three today. I missed that. I was getting a bit of a complex thinking that I had achieved crazy troll status with just a couple of posts.

batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

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Posted: 11/10/2009 9:22:10 PM
Thanks Mimima, for the kind words and clearing up the next mishap. How does that keep happening to me, today?! Yes, I was talking about my signature.

Ryan&MarahsMommy
BucketHead

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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:48:55 PM
"Wow...just wow".

I wish Sharon the best and hope for a speedy recovery!

KaraH99
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:01:31 PM

Certainly not trying to step on anyone's toes, but I recently had a very similar experience (not in the scrapbooking industry, thank goodness) with a family member whose business was absolutely ruined by statements made on the internet. This family member also offered an apology, but it was considered, very much like Donna's, too little, too late.


I'm sorry, that stinks. But, having read that huge thread today, I did not get the impression that DD ever said, "Hey, I'm really sorry. We screwed up. It was bad and we want to do whatever we can to make it right." It gave me the impression that she didn't care at all, besides feeling publicly shamed and feeling unfairly picked on. That isn't the way to run a business, IMO, and I feel the same way that others do: I don't want to give her my money or attention, but it's a business decision, not a personal one.

Sharon, I'm so glad to hear you are doing alright! Go you! I hope you continue on the path to healing.

ladytrisha
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:06:58 PM
There were also a LOT of private e-mails going back and forth where DD constantly justified her position on being able to double-dip. See, its not just the fact the gal couldn't cancel and get a refund - she also couldn't sell it or let a friend go in her place. No see, if she did that then DD wouldn't be able to make ANOTHER fee (ie double-dip) ... I think honestly that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back, and set the Pea-Pod on its end.

Funny because I just thought of this topic yesterday - so weird it came up today. I won't ever buy any product associated with her. My money, my choice of where it goes. Same goes for Stacy Julian and Heidi Swapp. If you want to be professional, then act it and be aware that you're being watched and yes, judged with a critical eye - and in this economy, the expectations are higher.

ladytrisha
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:13:26 PM

And now that I think about it, the SJ "so there" was sent to the HS class members instead of HS herself. And after the "so there" was sent, then the troop picture was posted, which only made the problem worse because the picture was not her own, and was used without permission (it was a picture that someone in her office shared with her). Plus, she tried to deflect things by using the war - which never goes over well no matter who does it.


and don't forget that darn owl she posted about ... never did get the connection with that, but by then she had lost me anyway.

leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:47:27 PM

Who is Batya?



*snort*


Thanks for the laugh!

amysj
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Posted: 11/11/2009 12:23:32 AM
Glad to hear you are doing well Sharon!

I will also not be buying DD products and telling others not to either

Amy

~Helen~
BucketHead

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Posted: 11/11/2009 12:55:29 AM
AKathy - glad to hear the workshop went well and that's great there are so many Pea friends around to show support. I imagine it would have been very difficult to walk in feeling all eyes on you etc.

HannahRuth
PeaFixture

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Posted: 11/11/2009 3:19:32 AM

I just don't know about trying to put someone out of business. Messing with their livelihood, so to speak.

Boycott her personally, if you wish, but making it so public that she is forced out of business .

That - and why - because it is her business practices that appalled the peas - not her personally in my opinion. I refuse to buy any thing of hers.

nicolequinn
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Posted: 11/11/2009 3:47:46 AM
Chalk up another one who hasn't supported DD since this incident. Her true colors were reveled through her ugly actions. There are *MUCH* better businesses to spend my money, time and creative energy with.



(fingers crossed) that I will be deemed cancer free soon- just my little update in case anybody was interested)


Sharon!! That is excellent news!! I am so happy for you!

pe@ce
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Posted: 11/11/2009 2:50:35 PM
Thank you everyone for the well wishes. I truly am uplifted by the support I get here. I am thankful.

I wanted to answer these questions:


Oh so many uplifting hugs & hoorays for you! Honestly that is the best news I've heard yet. That is excellent to hear your upper jaw was spared. What a relief for you and your family. How are you doing at this very moment?

I had a culture regarding my sinus tumor last week (god it was pretty painful when they took it) & am having my second surgery next week - I couldn't help but to think of you & your recovery. Was your original tumor embedded in jaw bone or cheekbone? Mine was cheekbone depressing optical & teeth nerves (beign). I am having such pain at times, aching & throbbing at others, with left side of my face after my surgery (Caldwell Luc to get tumor & file off part of bone). Did you have pain in that general area for quite some time?


at this moment I am well. The pain in my thigh is finally subsiding. Everything else is doable.

My original "tumor" was squamous papilloma. 10 Years ago after a bunch of testing for allergies and the like, a CT scan found the papilloma in my sinus. It is like a polyp but can turn cancerous. It was up by my eye. I will tell you that the biopsy they did in office was one of the most painful experiences. I said never again to that. It was removed surgically again and again only to regrow. One surgery came back with pre-cancerous cells so my doc did a more radical surgery by cutting up through the gum and going up endoscopically. It came back clean. He did a followup that came back clean. Then when he thought the papilloma was back, it came back cancerous. SO- my tumor was by the eye. They seemed to solve that problem and then the cancer was in my lower sinus- cheek. I have had my eye socket drilled, my eye membrane removed, my cheekbone and nose bone drilled down. I don't get the headaches they warned me about though. At least not yet. I do have a nice piece of titanium in my face now, too.

Regarding pain- for the early surgeries there was some pain. Cold weather made it worse. It wasn't all of the time. But it did affect me.

With radical surgery #1, he cut the nerve in my face. It has since been cut twice more so I am numb. I think that certainly helps with pain management. But I don't recommend it.

Your pain should subside. It does take a while. Hang in there. Don't be afraid to ask the doc for something. They don't want you to suffer.

Feel free to peamail if you have any questions. I am certainly happy to help if I can. I wish you lots of luck. I hope your problem is solved and let the healing begin!!


2boysandwill
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Posted: 11/11/2009 3:35:35 PM

My question: when is someone forgiven?


I honestly don't know. What's done is done. At this point, she could probably START by hosting a MASSIVE crop, ah-la two or three day retreat, spa style, specifically for cancer survivors, chock-full of goodies FOR FREE, all in Sharon's name. Year after year. To start...

Or, she'd probably have to donate proceeds to the Susan G Koman foundation in Sharon's name from now till the end of time.

For me, it would take something crazy big like that to ever gain my business again.

leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/11/2009 3:40:08 PM

I am certainly happy to help if I can. I wish you lots of luck. I hope your problem is solved and let the healing begin!!




May peace and healing be with you both!

hattaway
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/11/2009 3:41:49 PM

DD blew her second and third and any other chance clear out of the water. It wasn't the initial issue that caused me to boycott her business, and I would venture to guess that is true for many posting here, it was her continual disregard for a customer, a person and fellow scrapper that created my stance



Exaclty why I will NEVER buy anything from her again.

chantille
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Posted: 11/11/2009 4:34:07 PM

Nevermind. DD is not worth commenting on

I so agree.

chantille
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Posted: 11/11/2009 4:56:03 PM
Sharon it sounds like you have had the worst possible time. I hope you continue to heal, God Bless.

myboysnme
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Posted: 11/11/2009 5:17:35 PM
Did Sharon's friend ever get to "meet" Marissa Elliot or whatever her name was at the DD class? Did anyone ever hear from her?

enjoytotheend
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 11/11/2009 5:27:03 PM
Sharon my heart just goes out to you and your beautiful daughter (I am assuming that is her in your signature line). You have been through so much and you definitely didn't need the added stress that DD caused. I hope some good came out of it for you though. You see that you have a whole bleacher of cheerleaders cheering you on to overcome this. That we protect peas from unjustices.

I hope you continue to heal! Do you have friends and family there to support you? I was very pleased with what Two Peas did too. That showed a lot of class & support. I can't imagine anyone lacking any type of sympathy for someone going through what you are. I don't think any of us haven't had cancer affect us in one way or another. I had a good friend pass away last year of colon cancer at 25.

I hope you continue to heal. It sounds like you have a great doctors who are very aware of what you need. May you continue to heal and put this behind you. And at least you know that you have so many peas who care about you and are praying for you.

melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 19,090
Layouts: 86

Posted: 11/11/2009 7:04:00 PM
Sharon...thank you so much for the update!

Continued good thoughts for you. And {{hugs}}, too.

melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 19,090
Layouts: 86

Posted: 11/11/2009 7:05:00 PM

Saying I forgive Mrs. Downey is not my place. She did nothing to trespass against me. She did not wrong me...so there is no forgiveness to be given from me.

She conducted business in a manner that is not appealing to me. So I choose not support her business. Forgiveness is personal. A boycot is about making a statement.


I totally agree.

I have no reason to forgive or not forgive her. But I can choose to support or not support her based on her actions.


melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 19,090
Layouts: 86

Posted: 11/11/2009 7:05:01 PM

Saying I forgive Mrs. Downey is not my place. She did nothing to trespass against me. She did not wrong me...so there is no forgiveness to be given from me.

She conducted business in a manner that is not appealing to me. So I choose not support her business. Forgiveness is personal. A boycot is about making a statement.


I totally agree.

I have no reason to forgive or not forgive her. But I can choose to support or not support her based on her actions.


pe@ce
PeaFixture

PeaNut 80,720
April 2003
Posts: 3,470
Layouts: 4
Loc: Cleveland

Posted: 11/11/2009 7:14:57 PM


Do you have friends and family there to support you?


I DO!!! And everyone has been ridiculously generous. We've had meals delivered, visitors galore and I could probably open my own florist. I am fortunate. My siblings and my friends have helped me through the worst of it. BUT... I really cannot thank everyone enough. There is a power- an energy- that moves me from my support here. And frankly you all fascinate me. You're clever and witty and interesting and you truly care about people, too. I tend to joke quite a bit about my situation because I think laughter heals- and it makes people relax when they don't know quite what to say to me. Coming here always brightens my day. Thank you all.

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