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theremingtons
PeaWee
PeaNut 453,442
January 2010
Posts: 9
Layouts: 0
 |  Posted: 4/7/2010 7:47:22 AM
The following is my mother's story. I am sharing it with you in hopes that Provo Crafts will see that we care about those who come up with such great ideas.
Thank you.
link to her site: www dot deseretdesigns dot com
My name is Linda McClure and I am a cake decorator. I am always looking for new techniques to add to my cake designs. I invented/developed a new technique using an electronic paper cutting machine to cut gum paste designs and my cakes were soon looking amazing. I was able to create beautiful, one-of-a-kind designs with very little effort. I figured out how to modify a Cricut machine to cut gum paste. At first I figured that someone else must have already figured this out so I did a very thorough, intense search on the internet looking for information. I found nothing, not even a picture of a cake that was made using the Cricut. I spent a lot of time working on this method, and soon had my technique perfected.
I began getting inquiries from different cake decorators who saw my cakes on my web site. They asked how I achieved the stunning results with my cakes. It would be too difficult to explain in an email and a friend suggested I make a video teaching this new technique. This was the beginning of the “Creative Designs†series.
I went to an ICES meeting in April 2009 in Louisiana. One of the demonstrators was not able to come so I filled in for her at the last minute. I did a very informative demonstration about cake boards. I brought along a dummy cake decorated using the Cricut and said I would reveal the technique at the next meeting in July. This would give me time to finish the video and put together a demonstration with the Cricut. At the time I did not realize the importance of this demonstration. To the best of my knowledge, this was the first time the Cricut was demonstrated in public cutting gum paste.
Early in 2009 we tried contacting Provo Craft (the company that made the Cricut) to tell them what we were doing. I thought they would be interested in this new technique and I had several ideas to market this concept to cake decorators. We called and emailed them. but never got any response. There are several other companies who make a similar machine, so I thought we might try to work with one of them. I spoke with an attorney about the video and asked if it would be a problem using the Cricut in the video. He said it was a tool, just like a screw driver and I was showing how to use a tool. He recommended that we patent the process. When I found out it would cost me at least $10,000, I decided that it was something that I would not be able to afford to do.
My next problem was how to market the DVDs. I needed to reach the cake decorating world. My son, Justin, was home from college for the summer and decided to market the DVDs for me. He went on several cake forums telling people about this cutting edge cake decorating technique and soon we were selling several DVDs everyday. We also started selling them in other countries. I got a call from a guy in Australia and he told me they used a system called Click and Cut. My technique worked perfectly and he was going to be teaching the people there how to use it.
The one cake forum that talked a lot about this was Cake Central. He went on as grandmacupcake09 and answered peoples questions. I guess he said something wrong and was barred from the web site. He told me that he had put a link to my web site so people would know where to go for more information. It wasn’t long before those who bought my DVD were freely sharing the information with everyone else. That was the end of grandmacupcake.
In July of 2009 I presented this new technique to the Louisiana ICES. I know that many of the members present realized that this was going to change the way we decorate cakes in the future.
I taught Becky and Martha (Sweet Southern Ladies) this technique and they were able to use it in their Ultimate Cake Challenge. I also taught Jennifer Atwood (from Atwood’s Bakery) and she used the technique in her Ultimate Cake Challenge. I even taught Carrie Biggers (Carries Cakes) and she was on the team with Norm Davis and used this method for their Ultimate Cake Challenge.
In late July McKay Brown from Provo Craft emailed me to tell me he had heard about what I was doing from someone at a craft show. He thought my cakes were amazing and ordered a DVD from me. I told him I would be interested in presenting this concept to Provo Craft, but did not get a response back. I did send him the DVD.
My attorney was able to contact some of the people in the marketing department and talk to them. They looked at my web site and saw what I was doing. I had also put a short video of some of the cake I had made using the Cricut. He arranged a conference call with the Provo Craft people, and I told them that if they noticed an increase in sells of the Cricut, it was because of me. They were very interested in what I had to say. I finally got their attention. I told them that my method was going to change the way we decorated cakes. They were very anxious to meet with me, and I scheduled a time that my attorney, husband and I could go to Provo. We asked for a non compete, non discloser agreement to be signed before I showed them everything I had developed. They agreed, so we went to Provo at the end of Oct 2009.
When we got there my attorney asked to meet with their legal guys to sign the non discloser agreement we had agreed on. He was told that we would sign the agreements in the afternoon. I am not sure if they did not have the agreements ready, but my attorney came with one ready to sign. We trusted the company to act ethically and believed we would sign the non compete/non discloser agreement that afternoon. So far, I had no reason to not trust Provo Craft.
I brought everything with me and gave a very impressive demonstration, showing everything I had come up with. The people at Provo Craft were amazed, and had no idea that their machine could be used for cake decorating. There were at least 50 people in the room and everything I did was filmed and photographed. After lunch, I met with the product development people and told them everything about the modifications needed for the machine and gave suggestions for a few improvements. I explained about making the markers food safe and told them that new designs would be needed for cake decorators. I let them know that this was something I was to be a part of. If they did not want to work with me to develop a new product, then I could take my ideas somewhere else. My attorney tried his best to get their attorneys to sign the agreements. For some reason, Provo Craft’s attorneys were not to be found. After I gave them all the information I had, we were basically dismissed. We still had faith they would do the right thing, and I even got an email the next day from Jon Lee telling me it was a bit hit.
We headed back home and I started to get a little nervous about what had transpired. I paid my attorney a lot of money to come with us, to protect my interests. I trusted Provo Craft to do the right thing, but they proved to be untrustworthy. My attorney told me to have faith that things would work out. He did try to call and email them, but did not get any response to his inquiries.
After a few weeks of no response from Provo Craft I decided we would need to protect my invention with a patent. I contacted a patent attorney and showed her what I had developed. She was very positive about this being approved by the patent office, so I told we would go ahead with the patent. We are patent pending on the entire process. It will be awhile before we know the final out come.
Finally, I got a message from Provo Craft that they have come out with a new cricut Cake machine! They also have a new cake cartridge and sent me a sample of the designs to see. I was asked if I would come to Utah to film a short video about the new machine. I agreed to go. I wanted to see what they had come up with, and was still hoping they would do the right thing by me. We filmed at Carrie Biggers shop and it was a very interesting experience. Still no contract or mention of working with me. I am not given credit in the video for coming up with this idea. I still believed Provo Craft would do something to include me in the process. They are a scrapbook company and don’t know anything about cake decorating. They don’t understand the products we use or the designs we need.
A few weeks after the video was filmed I was asked if I would go to California to the CHA show 2010 for the big launch of the Cricut Cake. They would pay my expenses and pay me for my time. I decided that I would go and see for my self what was going on. I was to be demonstrating the new Cricut Cake machine, so I came prepared to do several demos. Their spokesperson began the introduction telling the people present that I had come to Provo Craft and asked them to make a machine that would cut gum paste! I know she was told what to say, but it was all I could do to tell the people at the demos that was not true. There were poster size pictures of my cakes all over the walls, taken from my web site without permission. That was fine to show my cakes, but not one word giving me credit for the work.
The evening of the 3rd day was a launch party. Jeff and I attended and there was a lot of people at the party. The video was shown and you can see the entire thing on youtube. The CEO of the company spoke and not once did he say anything about my contribution. If it were not for me Provo Craft would not have a new product to launch. It was my idea and it was obvious to me that they had no intension of ever giving me credit. I am personally responsible for the sale of hundreds of Cricut machines and now a new product line.
I decided that evening that I was done. They had flown in another cake decorator, so she could handle the rest of the demonstrations.
I spoke with Jon Lee and told him of my concerns. I had received a contract from Provo Crafty earlier in the week and told him I would not sign it. Basically, they wanted me to sign over all my rights to everything I had done including all my copy righted materials . They offered me $10,000 with a one year contract. They would pay me $1,000 a month to be their cake ambassador and travel to cake shows promoting the Cricut Cake. I offered a more reasonable contract, but they were not interested. I have a shop and can’t afford to give all my time to Provo Craft for so little compensation.
Provo Craft only has a machine to offer. I offer the method that can be used with several machines. There are a lot of people who are decorating cakes with this new method because of me. Several people are making a lot of money teaching classes because of me, and I personally taught many of them. I have come up with even more ideas we can use in the cake world. The latest is printing on gum paste.
The bottom line is this:
1) We presented this cake decorating technique to Provo Craft
2) We were promised a non compete, non discloser agreement
3) They did not give us the agreement we asked for
4) They took my ideas, and did not give me one penny for my invention | |
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scrappin_angelheart
BucketHead
PeaNut 389,275
August 2008
Posts: 910
Layouts: 50
Loc: I'm an Alberta girl!
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 9:55:02 AM
Personally this doesn't surprise me. Provocraft doesn't seem to be a very ethical company to start with (speaking as someone who has had to deal with their crappy products and customer service). Sorry to hear about your story. |
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Peadidoc
PeaNut
PeaNut 266,318
June 2006
Posts: 208
Layouts: 1
Loc: North Texas
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 10:02:54 AM
Linda, I won't be buying a cricut cake because of this. I don't bake but was contemplating buying one for my sister in law who does bake a lot.
To do this to a person who comes up with an idea is just wrong. Had they come up with their own ideas at the same time then I don't think they would have used your own designs taken right off your website. It is unfortunate when creative people have to go up against big companies like Provocraft.
Good luck. |
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arelys1228
PeaFixture
PeaNut 422,247
May 2009
Posts: 3,234
Layouts: 161
Loc: Queens NYC
| Posted: 4/7/2010 10:03:55 AM
that really sux |
| Love Peace Health and Happiness to you...Rosey | |
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Donna in GA
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 60,695
January 2003
Posts: 8,063
Layouts: 2
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 10:06:42 AM
This is really a shame. Unfortunately, this all could have been avoided with the patent. | |
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scrapping buckeye
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 250,978
February 2006
Posts: 2,157
Layouts: 15
Loc: Buckeye trapped in Michigan
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 10:10:06 AM
So basically your mom is po'd that cricut stole her idea of using the cricut for cake decorating and is now marketing a machine based on her ideas.
While I can see being angry your mom didn't invent the cricut and didn't pay to patent her ideas. She has been selling dvd's showing how she uses electronic cutters to cut gum paste and I assume she has been making money off of that.
I think the only recourse your mom has is if Provocraft is using her work or videos of her without her permission. Other than that I don't think she has recourse against Provocraft.
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Scrapn Nana
PEAring through my camera lens
PeaNut 272,954
August 2006
Posts: 6,975
Layouts: 19
| Posted: 4/7/2010 11:27:10 AM
I don't know if this will help, but the moment that Provo Craft used your mom's photos from her website without permission, they were in copyright violation. Your attorney might be able to go after them for that. If she got your patent application in first, she also might be able to sue them for damages, etc. Unfortunately, they might have beaten her to the punch.
If she can document her presentation, travels, anything else to show the timeline of her process, it would help her to prove that she was showing this long before Provo Craft. Affadavits from people she taught would be helpful in this. So would the dates of the video footage used in the DVD, records of sales of the DVDs, etc. For example, since she received an order from McKay Brown of Provo Craft for her DVD, which she filled, that is evidence in her behalf, especially if she has the credit card, check, or paypal receipt or record.
It's really sad, but some people do take advantage of others, especially when there is money to be made. I find this very disturbing.
I know that my daughter-in-law learned about using the Cricut for cake decorating sometime last year, which is why she bought a Cricut on Black Friday. She's done some fun cakes with it. I'll have to ask her when and where she first learned about it.
I'm so sorry this happened to your mom. I know on a much, much smaller scale how it really hurts for your intellectual property and/or designs to be stolen by others.
After looking at her website, I have to say that your mom's cake artistry is absolutely awesome!!!! |
My Scrapn' Blog
Photographers are violent people. First they frame you, then they shoot you, then they hang you on the wall; but if you're real good, they will scrapbook you! | |
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stampcrazychick
PeaFixture
PeaNut 328,112
July 2007
Posts: 3,114
Layouts: 0
Loc: Utah
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 11:40:22 AM
I have to say that I'm not at all surprised by Provo Craft's handling of the whole thing. They have a bad reputation and they seem content to keep it. | |
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papersilly
Don't let the dreamkillers get me
PeaNut 109,681
October 2003
Posts: 6,225
Layouts: 112
Loc: so. california
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 12:07:18 PM
i'm curious about something. why did your mom go the the PC offices, demonstrate for them, give them all her info, all without having any kind of contract signed first? she paid an attorney who brought a contract with him/her, and yet, when PC didn't sign it, they still continued on with giving PC all of the ideas she came up with. why didn't she use that knowledge as leverage to get the proper credit and compensation for herself?
i think it is smarmy for PC to take advantage of the situation but your mom shouldn't have been so trusting and willing to give up the info without definitively protecting her interests. i don't think PC would have been so trusting if it was the other way around. once they got wind of your mom's work, they were probably advised to gather up as much info as possible without having anything signed. they probably sensed your mom's eagerness and trust and took full advantage of it. they are not in the business to be kind, they are in the business to make money. armed with everything they learned from your mom, they used the vast money and the resources they have to launch their own cake decorating line before your mom could beat them to the punch. it's was a horrible thing for PC to do but they are probably patting themselves on the back for what they consider to be a great business move.
i hope your mom does not become a cautionary tale for all others with a unique idea. i hope she gets the credit she is due for the work that she did.
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theremingtons
PeaWee
PeaNut 453,442
January 2010
Posts: 9
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 12:40:37 PM
I think she believed they were going to "do right" by her, since she brought her lawyer with her to UT. I hope that by sharing her tale and getting others to let PC know that they do not appreciate their business ethics that it will help them see they need to do something about this.
Smart business move, yes.
Right in the eyes of God? No.
A business I'd want to deal with? No.
Would you want this to happen to you? No.
Not even if you created a cool scrap page and then went to sell it and someone else did it after seeing your idea.
It's just wrong.
One thing I admire about my mom is that although she is sharing the facts of the story...she has not said anything negative about the company. She is still trying to be a good kind hearted person.
Thanks to those who offer support.
If you want...@provocraft on twitter wants to hear your thoughts. or leave a message on their facebook page.
Because no matter what you think...you know it is wrong to not give Linda the recognition and thanks for her contribution. You know that the offer they gave her was a joke. | |
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ca angel
PeaAddict
PeaNut 400,602
November 2008
Posts: 1,525
Layouts: 25
Loc: So Cal
| Posted: 4/7/2010 12:46:21 PM
Why your lawyer would let your mom present to PC without the agreement being signed is beyond me. PC's lawyer was looking out for their best interest (no contract = no compensation) but it doesn't sound like you had anyone looking out for your interests.
Personally I don't trust ANY corportation to "do the right thing". It's not in their nature to look out for the little guy. Unless your mom went against your lawyer's advice, they are the ones that I would be the most angry with. Since you "paid [your] attorney a lot of money" they should have been acting in your best interests, and that obviously didn't happen.
Yes shame on PC, but I guess I would have been surprised if they had done "the right thing". Thanks for sharing your mom's experience, hopefully other will learn from her mistakes.
ca angel | |
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Scrapbrat1
Sue Pea
PeaNut 87,238
May 2003
Posts: 7,031
Layouts: 190
Loc: Dirtyland and Oilyland
| Posted: 4/7/2010 12:48:57 PM
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but... I'm a lawyer, and your lawyer should not have let you do that demo to PC without the non-disclosure agreement fully in place. In fact, you probably shouldn't have let PC find out any details about what you were doing (although I realize that this would have been difficult). This kind of thing happens all the time in the IP world. I know that doesn't make it any easier. |
Barbara
CKU-Indy -- March 2003
CKU-M, Salt Lake City -- August 2004 | |
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2boysandwill
My turn to hit the PEAnata!!!
PeaNut 121,208
December 2003
Posts: 13,119
Layouts: 71
Loc: SCV, CA
| Posted: 4/7/2010 1:12:33 PM
Wow, I'm so sad this happened. I too would not have ever 'trusted' that a company do right by me.
I would've stood there, in the room with all 50 people just waiting for a verbal agreement or SOMETHING on paper from the legal department before I did my demo. We could aaaall wait till kingdom come for all that mattered.
I'm sorry this happened...hindsight is always 20/20.
I have no idea what kind of recourse you'd have. I do know that you should be paid for them using your pieces for use as a demo...
Provo can't deny you existed and championed the technique, there are 50 witnesses, plus a video and photography as proof. It's going to come down to how much the technique is worth as a whole.
How sad... | |
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2boysandwill
My turn to hit the PEAnata!!!
PeaNut 121,208
December 2003
Posts: 13,119
Layouts: 71
Loc: SCV, CA
| Posted: 4/7/2010 1:16:55 PM
You know that the offer they gave her was a joke.
what did they offer? I'd like to think they offered residuals... | |
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Scrapper Jenn
PeaNut
PeaNut 416,807
March 2009
Posts: 361
Layouts: 8
| Posted: 4/7/2010 1:59:06 PM
Basically, they wanted me to sign over all my rights to everything I had done including all my copy righted materials . They offered me $10,000 with a one year contract. They would pay me $1,000 a month to be their cake ambassador and travel to cake shows promoting the Cricut Cake. I offered a more reasonable contract, but they were not interested.
This is what it said in the first post. | |
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MotherofJackals
Turning holy water into wine
PeaNut 27,168
January 2002
Posts: 22,122
Layouts: 27
Loc: Hanging out by the state line
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 2:05:11 PM
I went to an ICES meeting in April 2009 in Louisiana. To the best of my knowledge, this was the first time the Cricut was demonstrated in public cutting gum paste.
All Provocraft has to do is show somebody in their company had the idea before you and it was in development. I can remember when the Cricut first came out in like 2004 or 2005 everyone experimenting and trying to see what they can cut with it. Not to say your story is not 100% true but honestly it's going to be hard to prove she made a leap and a design change exactly like the one Provocraft did and that they took the idea from her. Even if the result is the same if their modifications are different I think she is out of luck.
If you are very sure of the facts I encourage you to fight it because big business shouldn't just push the little guy around. On the other hand I'd hate to see a product I love so much no longer made because of the lawsuits. I guess I better stock up on supplies in case you all take them to the cleaners and shut Provo down. | |
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mandmrose
PeaNut
PeaNut 162,804
August 2004
Posts: 257
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 4/7/2010 2:23:11 PM
I am so sorry this happened to your mom. But I am not in the least suprised. PC is not known for being kind. When I think of big business and the nasty things they do they are one of the companies I think of. They are also well known for making big promises and not following through on those either. So as I'm sure your mom has learned get everything in writting, everything! As someone else stated I would totally be upset with my lawyer. I don't feel that he/she advised you well or protected your interests. He/she should have told you that in no way shape or form should you disclose anything to them before papers were signed.
I would also bet that PC has filed a patent way before you did. In fact I am betting that they filed for it from the first time they (as in PC corporate) talked about using the cricut for cake decorating. I am sure their lawyers did an extensive search on if one had yet been filed. It helps when you don't have to think about if you have 10,000.00 to spend.
I wish your mom much luck and hope that PC does do the right thing by her. PC makes some great products but they are definitely sharks in the business world. | |
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tcaudell
BucketHead
PeaNut 276,894
September 2006
Posts: 513
Layouts: 0
Loc: Kentucky
| Posted: 4/7/2010 2:23:26 PM
While I see where everyone is coming from on the legal side of this issue Linda's videos have been available for years now. I own them and they are fabulous. I remember seeing the clips on the web of the new Cricut Cake at CKU and seeing Linda present doing demonstrations and pics of her beautiful cakes all around. My initial reaction was, "Great! There is Linda FINALLY getting to present HER fabulous work with the Cricut and cake decorating to the entire crafting world." Little did I know what was really going on. I was actually considering buying the Cricut Cake, but not after hearing what has happened to Linda. She DID create the technique and should be rewarded for her YEARS of hard work! Shame on Provo Craft! I do hope they make things right with Linda, however, knowing how big companies can be it probably will not happen.
Tammy |
Xyron Design Team Member
http://www.fromtheheartoftammy.blogspot.com
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pennyscraps
Today's Logo brought to you by the number 266,613
PeaNut 266,613
June 2006
Posts: 10,476
Layouts: 102
Loc: Lone Star State
| Posted: 4/7/2010 2:38:46 PM
I am sorry and I hate this for your mom. |
Penny
That's QUEEN Paper Pea to you!
2012: 132 12x12 pages completed, 25 Project Life weeks completed!!
2011: 165 12x12 pages completed, 1 December Daily album
2010: 125 12x12 pages completed, 31 8.5x11 pages completed, 1 December Daily album | |
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ScrappinwithZ
BucketHead
PeaNut 127,532
January 2004
Posts: 936
Layouts: 21
Loc: Southeast Missouri
| Posted: 4/7/2010 6:24:52 PM
What Tammy said!! |
Mom to Chris 25, Jackie 24, William 11 and Kyle 10
Wife to Greg for 28 years
My Blog: Scrappin'with Z
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aJerseyGirl
[insert clever title here]
PeaNut 246,022
January 2006
Posts: 6,404
Layouts: 97
Loc: New Jersey
| Posted: 4/7/2010 6:53:27 PM
I'm sorry that this happened to your mom, but I too was wondering why her attorney would allow her to present her idea to PC without a patent. Patents are made for the inventor's protection because of this sort of thing. I could understand why she would believe that PC would do the right thing. Many of us would be inclined to believe that too. But a lawyer should know better. Was he/she a patent lawyer or did they practice some other type of law?
I'm also a little confused about something. Was she presenting the technology to convert the Cricut to the cake machine? Or was she presenting how to use the cut pieces? Or how to make gum paste (or whatever that is) to work with the Cricut? I don't think I'm understanding what her piece in this is.
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krystalstamps
BucketHead
PeaNut 423,696
May 2009
Posts: 637
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 6:55:19 PM
Finally, I get the story! Its been posted on the Cricut.com boards several times and BAM! Deleted within minutes!! I was in the middle of reading one and it dissappeared before my eyes.
I'm sending people over here to read this. At the very least, she deserves for people to hear her side of the story.
PC is real quick over there to delete anything about SCAL, MTC, etc. But, its odd that they are deleting this stuff so fast.
There was something about a second lawsuit, something about one of the software programs. Does anyone know what that is about? |
________________________________________________________________________________
~U.S. coal deposits contain more energy than that of ALL the world's oil reserves.~
~Each person in the United States uses 3.8 tons of coal each year.~
~Coal generates more than half of the electricity used in the United States.~
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krystalstamps
BucketHead
PeaNut 423,696
May 2009
Posts: 637
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 7:16:10 PM
Dang! That was fast!! It lasted 5 minutes!
I posted a thread over there that said exactly this:
Speaking of that other mb (that was the title)
They have an very interesting Cricut story over there right now.
I wonder how long this thread will last before its deleted? LOL----end of post
And that's it. Thats every word it said. I know they have their rules, but this did not violate any of them. This is very telling of them.....
I did have 2 people tell me to pm them what board it was, so I got to reply to them, LOL! Ha!! Take that, PC! LOL!
Seriously, I can't stand when big business acts like that! |
________________________________________________________________________________
~U.S. coal deposits contain more energy than that of ALL the world's oil reserves.~
~Each person in the United States uses 3.8 tons of coal each year.~
~Coal generates more than half of the electricity used in the United States.~
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krystalstamps
BucketHead
PeaNut 423,696
May 2009
Posts: 637
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 7:24:14 PM
double post |
________________________________________________________________________________
~U.S. coal deposits contain more energy than that of ALL the world's oil reserves.~
~Each person in the United States uses 3.8 tons of coal each year.~
~Coal generates more than half of the electricity used in the United States.~
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Princess-hydro
BucketHead
PeaNut 421,171
April 2009
Posts: 587
Layouts: 2
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
| Posted: 4/7/2010 7:43:27 PM
I feel really bad for your mom. It sounds like she had high hopes and great intentions in dealing with PC. They way they handled this sounds underhanded and would crush anyone in that position. Having said that, couldn't they have just bought one of her videos & created the cake seeing there was a market for this product? It would seem though, the fact that they even offered her a contract would be the equivilant of an admission that it was her idea.
Best of luck to your mom. | |
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scramper75
PeaAddict
PeaNut 101,785
August 2003
Posts: 1,266
Layouts: 5
Loc: other side of Bal-more hun
| Posted: 4/7/2010 7:47:03 PM
Apparently PC is suing the maker of MTC over copyright infringement. I have very little details but it is being talked about on the message boards. |
Elizabeth
my blog
"Be the change you want to see in the world."
~Gandhi | |
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aJerseyGirl
[insert clever title here]
PeaNut 246,022
January 2006
Posts: 6,404
Layouts: 97
Loc: New Jersey
| Posted: 4/7/2010 8:13:37 PM
Apparently PC is suing the maker of MTC over copyright infringement.
What is MTC? | |
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scrapping buckeye
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 250,978
February 2006
Posts: 2,157
Layouts: 15
Loc: Buckeye trapped in Michigan
| Posted: 4/7/2010 8:18:30 PM
MTC = Make the Cut, it is software similar to their design software but better. |
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Scrappy Brooke
PeaAddict
PeaNut 455,789
February 2010
Posts: 1,115
Layouts: 23
Loc: Michigan
| Posted: 4/7/2010 8:19:04 PM
I believe that MTC is Make the Cut software. Similar SCAL (sure cuts a lot) | |
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Ella Minnow Pea
PeaFixture
PeaNut 326,621
July 2007
Posts: 3,591
Layouts: 56
Loc: Evansville, IN
| Posted: 4/7/2010 8:37:50 PM
Ugh, that sucks. No idea what to do at all, but I'm sorry they took advantage of her.  |
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KayMc
PeaWee
PeaNut 462,598
March 2010
Posts: 5
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 8:52:03 PM
I can easily believe this about PC, but the part of the story about the attorney allowing her to leave with nothing signed makes no sense. | |
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TheOtherMeg
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 463,585
April 2010
Posts: 2,062
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 9:02:49 PM
MTC (Make The Cut) is software that people can use with their Cricuts that allows them to create freely. They can design from scratch, import files created by others, and use the fonts (TTFs) on their computers. Provo Craft doesn't like the programs like this (SCAL is similar) because they think people will not buy cartridges if they can design freely.
Provo Craft only offers Design Studio, a software program that simply allows people to manipulate the images on the Cricut carts. You can design with any cart image, but you can only CUT images you created using carts you own.
PC didn't take legal action against MTC until the creator of MTC added a feature that "backs up" the images on Cricut cartridges using PC's Design Studio to import the images into MTC. MTC says it's only allowing the back up of the Cricut cartridge files for personal archiving and use, much like we can back up music files for our personal use.
MTC feels it's not responsible for what people do with their software. PC looks at the "back up" feature and sees the possibility of saving the cart images as SVG files that will end up zooming across the web. Also, MTC actually calls the feature "DesignStudio Back-up Mode," so there's the distinct possibility of copyright infringement there.
I love my MTC and think PC has been ridiculously overzealous in removing posts and threads mentioning it (and SCAL and other third-party products that enhance the Cricut experience) in their forums, but I do understand why the back-up feature has them in a tizzy. MTC is an awesome program and I would really regret it if it ends up going under due to an expensive lawsuit over this latest feature. It's a great creative design tool without the back-up feature, and I hope Andy doesn't risk everything he's invested just to keep this feature. I hope it will be enough for PC that the feature is removed. I have no idea what they're demanding of MTC, but maybe that will be enough.
About the Cake situation, PC is really looking like a dog on that one, IMO. | |
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scrapstitcher
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 394,109
October 2008
Posts: 2,350
Layouts: 8
Loc: Ohio, USA
| Posted: 4/7/2010 9:08:44 PM
I love my Baby Bug and Cuttlebug folders and it's really sad that a company like Provo Craft who gives scrapbookers tools that make our hobby even more enjoyable would do something so underhanded like this. It really makes me see them in a whole new perspective as a consumer of their products. |
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Nantini
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 274,935
August 2006
Posts: 5,099
Layouts: 8
| Posted: 4/7/2010 9:56:08 PM
This doesn't suprise me about them at all. Remember the fiasco when lss couldn't buy the Cricut cheaper than what the big box stores were selling them for?
You're lawyer should have advised you not to show them anything without a contract or something to protect what you are saying. Lawyers know the reason you get stuff signed is you trust no one. Where was he looking out for your mom.
Anyway, it does suck. The best thing that ever happened to Provocraft is SCAL and MTC! |
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krystalstamps
BucketHead
PeaNut 423,696
May 2009
Posts: 637
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 10:33:03 PM
Teehee!! They are pulling threads like crazy over there! LOL!! Tons of people are posting it now!!! And they are hopping like crickets deleting them.
Thats ok, there's more of us than there are of them!
Don't they realize how bad thats making them look? |
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TheOtherMeg
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 463,585
April 2010
Posts: 2,062
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 10:40:14 PM
I can easily believe this about PC, but the part of the story about the attorney allowing her to leave with nothing signed makes no sense.
I don't understand why her attorney let her speak before the papers were signed, much less leave the meeting. They should have all sat around the table staring at each other until the PC attorneys showed up and signed papers.
If the OP's mom doesn't get any satisfaction from PC, she should, at the very least, tell her attorney she is very unhappy with his/her service. The attorney never should have allowed his client to speak without PC signing the papers. | |
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Nantini
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 274,935
August 2006
Posts: 5,099
Layouts: 8
| Posted: 4/7/2010 10:41:04 PM
I'm feeling evil... let me go look. LOL |
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CynPea
PeaNut
PeaNut 453,726
January 2010
Posts: 202
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/7/2010 10:49:50 PM
Does your mom's attorney know you're out posting all this bad mouthing of PC? I'd bet not.
Furthermore, I bet she'd want you to not be saying it unless he/she reviews what's being said. You'd be surprised what can come and bite you in the butt.
PC has many, many attorneys, slander and libel come to mind.
Pretty ballsy to see it posted over on the Cricut messageboard too.
That doesn't really do anything but make me think sour grapes here.
I spoke with an attorney about the video and asked if it would be a problem using the Cricut in the video. He said it was a tool, just like a screw driver and I was showing how to use a tool. He recommended that we patent the process. When I found out it would cost me at least $10,000, I decided that it was something that I would not be able to afford to do
If only you had taken the attorney's advice. |
Cyndi G.
People will forget what you did, people will forget what you said, but people will never forget how you made them feel. | |
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clhusmann
PeaNut
PeaNut 376,394
May 2008
Posts: 273
Layouts: 41
Loc: Wisconsin
| Posted: 4/8/2010 6:56:56 AM
Doesn't surprise me at all about Provo Craft. They are a huge enterprise with lots of attorneys... It's unfortuante that even with a good product they have to behave so badly. Their treatment of the independent stores and our conversations with them changed our minds pronto about dealing with them. Now we only carry the cutting mats and replacement blades (for our folks who come crop and need these things).
And it is truly unfortuante that patents cost what they do.. it's like the average joe, no matter how good the idea, isn't ever going to truly reap the benefits of having created and developed something... unless you have bucks!
I am sorry for your mom's experience.
Cheryl | |
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joy_dreamer
BucketHead
PeaNut 370,513
April 2008
Posts: 840
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/8/2010 9:11:58 AM
Sorry to read this and what about the Klic n Kut machine that cuts fondant? |
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joy_dreamer
BucketHead
PeaNut 370,513
April 2008
Posts: 840
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/8/2010 9:16:20 AM
http://www.paperthreads.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8819 |
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lola415
PeaAddict
PeaNut 20,838
August 2001
Posts: 1,532
Layouts: 0
Loc: nevada
| Posted: 4/8/2010 10:55:26 AM
I think it's terrible what they did and makes me not want to give them anymore of my money, but I will agree that I think your mother got horrible legal advice and maybe she should be seeking recourse there, too. | |
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Leone
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 27,235
January 2002
Posts: 5,807
Layouts: 0
Loc: Margaritaville at The Islands (Gilbert, AZ)
| Posted: 4/8/2010 11:04:27 AM
I too think your mother got terrible legal advice. For one thing, a patent costs a lot more than $10K, especially if you are filing it in other countries to protect your idea...my husband has 12 patents and it's estimated that it costs over $50K for each one. I think she's way in over her head and it's sad, but the big corporations will win this one. And the idea of using a Cricut to decorate cakes isn't new. | |
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Nantini
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 274,935
August 2006
Posts: 5,099
Layouts: 8
| Posted: 4/8/2010 1:38:55 PM
PC has many, many attorneys, slander and libel come to mind.
Pretty ballsy to see it posted over on the Cricut messageboard too.
First they'd have to prove this wasn't true. Just like when they said buying MTC or SCAL would void the warranty. |
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aracely
TKD, Black Belt Pea
PeaNut 15,413
May 2001
Posts: 6,414
Layouts: 152
Loc: Westside of Houston
 | Posted: 4/8/2010 2:49:47 PM
sounds funny that many are posting messages like they are attorneys themselves....  kinda ranks up there with back seat drivers.... keep it coming I'm liking this entertainment!!!! |
OFF ROADING with the Houston Land Rover Club 2010
BLACK BELT mom of 13 year old black belt TWIN BOYS
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aracely
TKD, Black Belt Pea
PeaNut 15,413
May 2001
Posts: 6,414
Layouts: 152
Loc: Westside of Houston
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Scrapn Nana
PEAring through my camera lens
PeaNut 272,954
August 2006
Posts: 6,975
Layouts: 19
| Posted: 4/8/2010 7:34:40 PM
is it possible that PC wanted to see what she was doing (hence the meeting) b/c PC was already processing a cricut cake machine?
Yes, it's possible, but they ordered her video, promised to sign non-disclosure agreements (apparently AFTER seeing the video), and used photos of her cakes from her website (without her permission) to make their posters for CHA 2010. The latter action was a blatant violation of copyright law right there.
If they'd had everything planned and in the works already for the Cricut Cake machine, why did they promise her they would sign a non-disclosure agreement? Why use her photos (without permission) for their posters instead of photos of cakes made by one of their staff? Granted, her cakes are absolutely gorgeous, but IF they had staff developing this use prior to her bringing it to their attention, they should have had some awesome cakes of their own to show. The fact that they used HER photos is a big red flag IMO.
I'll admit that it is possible for simultaneous design to take place. Copyright law even allows for that. No, I'm not a copyright attorney, but I had personal reasons a few years ago to learn quite a lot about copyright laws. Patent law, according to my brother (an inventor with 2 patents), is a bit different. He said that in the USA, it's basically the first person who can prove through documentation they had the idea first, while in Europe, it's the first one to actually apply for the patent.
He also said that it's easier to nail someone in court for copyright infringement than it is for patent infringement. With patent infringement, the side with the most money usually wins. It's supposed to be much easier to prove copyright infringement.
The unauthorized use of Linda's photos which PC used to make posters for the CHA 2010 debut of the Cricut Cake machine was incredibly blatant copyright infringement by Provo Craft--something she could easily take to court. Photos are definitely protected under copyright law. If she can document when she first taught her techniques to others (and it sounds like she does have plenty of potential witnesses to that fact), she might be able to sue Provo Craft for damages for more than just the unauthorized use of her photos. Her video is copyrighted material. If they are showing the same techniques as shown in her video, it might also be considered a copyright violation.
I really think Linda McClure needs to see an attorney that specializes in copyright infringement. He'll tell her if she has a case. At the very least, it sounds like she needs a different and better attorney than the one who went with her to Provo Craft. I agree with many of the others that the attorney who went with her did NOT do a decent job of protecting her interests. |
My Scrapn' Blog
Photographers are violent people. First they frame you, then they shoot you, then they hang you on the wall; but if you're real good, they will scrapbook you! | |
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Smithto
PeaNut
PeaNut 9,818
January 2001
Posts: 167
Layouts: 0
Loc: Planet Scrap
|  Posted: 4/8/2010 9:28:38 PM
Sounds like the story of the intermitent wiper blades for cars and the Ford Motor Co. Anybody seen Flash of Genius with Greg Kinnear. These are both sad stories. I hope your mom has better luck. The thing about any business is their saying" It's nothing personal it's just business." They'd all sell their own grandmother than admit they've done anything wrong. I find it hipocritical (sp) that they are suing another company for copyright infrigement and they are guilty of the same thing. The sad thing is they have the money, as Ford did, to fight this and in the end never even have to admit they didn't invent it. In the end what is it worth to the inventor. It's a tough thing to take. I know it's also very cynical of me to say that I would NEVER trust anyone as far as I could throw them. Much luck to your family. |
My give a duck is busted!
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Leone
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 27,235
January 2002
Posts: 5,807
Layouts: 0
Loc: Margaritaville at The Islands (Gilbert, AZ)
| Posted: 4/8/2010 9:44:53 PM
Another issue is that using electronic cutters to make decorations for cakes is not all that new...there have been directions available for a long time to use fondant with other brands of cutters. I have friends who have been cutting fondant on their Klik n Kuts for a long time. I'm pretty sure the question was even asked by a caller on HSN a year or so ago about doing that during a Cricut episode...just like they talk about cutting fabric and vinyl. It's got to be very disappointing but it's really the big corporations that end up making money on patents if anyone does. Cricut is used in European countries,Australia and New Zealand...patents have to be filed in each of those countries to protect yourself...that's where it gets very expensive. Defending a patent is difficult and expensive to do once it's out in the public domain... | |
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ladytrisha
AncestralPea
PeaNut 23,636
October 2001
Posts: 4,212
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 4/8/2010 10:29:58 PM
the statement below has been apparently posted by PC to their FB readers in response to the message board postings (assumably by the OP here). Its been re-posted on the Cricut message board (though from reading over there it seems someone is having happy fun with Mr. Delete Key!)
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A brief statement from Provo Craft about Linda McClure's "real story" post
April 8th, 2010
It is not typically our practice to publicly discuss private business matters, but because of the misperceptions that circulated this week on the message boards, we believe it is appropriate to share a brief statement to clarify the facts about the development of Cricut Cake.
In 2009, Linda McClure approached Provo Craft about a method of cutting gum paste, a method with which Provo Craft was already familiar and whose documented development dates as far back as 2007. We reached an informal agreement that provided for Ms. McClure to be compensated at fair market value for her time and consulting services as we prepared to launch Cricut Cake in 2010. She accepted, performed certain activities, and was compensated accordingly.
More recently, Provo Craft and Ms. McClure discussed the possibility of extending a formal consulting agreement. We believe that some of her requests, including both financial and non-financial terms, were unrealistic. Further, Linda was adamant that her requests were non-negotiable. As a result we chose not to enter a long term agreement with her, and unfortunately our relationship deteriorated.
Provo Craft's initial research and development for Cricut Cake began in 2007. Since then, Provo Craft has conducted extensive market research and consulted with industry leaders, and both professional and aspiring cake decorators. We're grateful for the valuable input and the enthusiastic support of these individuals, and we look forward to our continued relationship with them. We also hope you share our excitement for the fun possibilities that Cricut Cake will bring to creative kitchens everywhere.
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Trish
Simi Valley, Ca.
Enjoying paradise with my hunky Hawaiian hubby for over 31 years;
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If its Sunday - its NASCAR in the house! #48, #24 & #14
Fast men in fast cars -- WOOHOO!!
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