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Captain K
AncestralPea
PeaNut 247,594
February 2006
Posts: 4,495
Layouts: 0
 |  Posted: 3/11/2011 2:07:11 PM
I have not usually been one to question why bad things happen on Earth, knowing that people have free will and make choices that hurt others, like in cases of abuse, murder, and other human-made tragedy. In today's earthquake though, I have to wonder, why did God create the Earth with so many problems that we as humans cannot fix even if we were 100% sinless and faithful? These natural disasters aren't caused by human free will, they are part of the physical earth that God created.
What is your understanding of why, from a spiritual point of view, we are subjected to natural disasters that are not a result of our sin but rather a result of the design of the planet by God? If He is perfect, why didn't he create an earth that was physically infallable?
I am really struggling with faith today. | |
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momofacpsjmae
BucketHead
PeaNut 38,841
May 2002
Posts: 977
Layouts: 29
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I'm sorry. I have nothing for you. But I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry you're feeling this way. |
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petesmom
Tragically Flip
PeaNut 141,872
April 2004
Posts: 6,149
Layouts: 0
Loc: midwest
 | Posted: 3/11/2011 2:15:54 PM
Because he didn't create the earth. Sorry, agnostic here. The way all you "faithful" struggle with your faith all the time. *shrug*. Just don't get it sometimes. | |
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Freestylefreak
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 101,782
August 2003
Posts: 2,307
Layouts: 61
Loc: Lonely Mountain bound...
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:17:24 PM
My grandfather always reminded me that God did not create an imperfect world. Through sin and choice, man turns this into a more imperfect world everyday.
My faith never wavers from that. It may not bring comfort or make sense to some but it works for me. |
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lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker
PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 14,375
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne
 | Posted: 3/11/2011 2:18:13 PM
You might as well ask why there are terrible, pandemic-causing microbes as well. Or drought, famine, all the rest of it.
The world is an imperfect place. I can't tell you why, it just is. |
LUCYG
northern california
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell
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angela1422
Trying to find Narnia
PeaNut 312,012
April 2007
Posts: 8,909
Layouts: 9
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angievp
Ideay pues?
PeaNut 143,106
April 2004
Posts: 6,643
Layouts: 36
Loc: Miami
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:26:14 PM
What is your understanding of why, from a spiritual point of view, we are subjected to natural disasters that are not a result of our sin but rather a result of the design of the planet by God? If He is perfect, why didn't he create an earth that was physically infallable?
It may be imperfect in your eyes, but I believe (with what little faith I have)that what God created *is* perfect. Instead of destroying itself, the earth expands and contracts on its own--it clashes with itself in perfect harmony, things mutate, things die, things are reborn in what maybe seen as chaos, but to me is a perfect dance. That *is* God. | |
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peasful1
Needs a New Pea Title
PeaNut 44,870
August 2002
Posts: 14,166
Layouts: 1
Loc: Valley of the Sun
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:27:34 PM
Population control? Ew. Sometimes I'm very glad to be an atheist. In my world, shit happens and I don't need to assign motive to things that happen. Earthquakes and tsunamis are grounded in science, not voodoo or God or because people need to be punished for homosexuality.
Maybe if you or a family member becomes ill or injured, you could forego treatment since you'd be flouting God's means of population control.
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:27:53 PM
God did not create a perfect world for us because we do not deserve it. That sounds awful, I know. But biblically speaking, Eden was perfect, that was where man was to live. But Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden into the world. They did not deserve a perfect world, and so that is where mankind has been since.
Not to mention, a perfect world wouldn't be perfect. Tidal waves and tsunamis are a result of waves (I know it is much more complicated than that LOL) if there were no waves in the ocean, not only would that mean something WEIRD is going on with the moon, and currents and marine life would be much different. NAtural Disasters happen from time to time, but the earth functions the way it should. Changing it would change a lot, methinks.
In my mind, bad things happen because they need to. And before anyone flames me, NO I do not think all those people needed to die, NO I do not think the island had to be destroyed... But without disaster, without sorrow and suffering, there is no sympathy, no compassion. We as human beings must rally together to help out our fellow human beings when they are in need.
Also, I don't believe we have the capacity to fully understand God's plan. The world is a tapestry, with God on one side, and us on another. From our side, sometimes all we see are the knots and the threads dangling from the tapestry, in other words, a mess. God is sitting somewhere else, and he can see the beautiful picture.
Just my take. I don't feel the need to blame God in times of distress. (Not meant to be snarky.) |
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:31:38 PM
Maybe if you or a family member becomes ill or injured, you could forego treatment since you'd be flouting God's means of population control.
How snarky and unnecessary. The OP asked what out SPIRITUAL viewpoint was and we all shared. If your spiritual viewpoint is that there is no God, fine. That is your belief. But your post has this not-quite-subtle "you are all idiots for believing it is God's will" tone that sucks |
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jlynnbarth
PeaFixture
PeaNut 15,552
May 2001
Posts: 3,430
Layouts: 21
Loc: WA
 | Posted: 3/11/2011 2:40:24 PM
----God did not create a perfect world for us because we do not deserve it. That sounds awful, I know. But biblically speaking, Eden was perfect, that was where man was to live. But Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden into the world. They did not deserve a perfect world, and so that is where mankind has been since. -----
This is what I believe also.
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Jenny in WA
Mom to ds 20, dd 18, Wife to Mike.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord!
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peasbkind
Right . . . where I ought to be!
PeaNut 458,467
March 2010
Posts: 5,994
Layouts: 0
Loc: On the beach. . . if only in my mind
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Arielsmom
PeaNut
PeaNut 237,062
December 2005
Posts: 207
Layouts: 0
Loc: Fox Cities
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:43:02 PM
I think that "God" is still making our world. If you study how our world grows by spewing forth lava and making more land, etc., it would seem that our world is still under development.
We, the people that inhabit the world, do not pay attention. We choose to build in flood plains, on volcanos, etc. We do this over and over.
A home is lost to a mud slide. Tragic. Regretable. How long does it take before another building takes it place, with every one knowing that a similar outcome may happen.
There are wonderful, beautiful areas that people chose to build on, that are under going change. Dangerous areas when storms move thru. Yet we keep returning to the same areas.
We need to learn how to care for our world. To quit polluting it, and nuture it. We need to respect our world, as one plate slides under another, like in California, and other plates pull apart, so lava comes up and forms new lands.
God may be frustrated with us because we do not learn!
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thatgirlintexas
Coarsening our society one F you at a time
PeaNut 43,787
July 2002
Posts: 8,324
Layouts: 255
Loc: the world wide web
| Posted: 3/11/2011 2:58:26 PM
Maybe if you or a family member becomes ill or injured, you could forego treatment since you'd be flouting God's means of population control.
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How snarky and unnecessary. The OP asked what out SPIRITUAL viewpoint was and we all shared. If your spiritual viewpoint is that there is no God, fine. That is your belief. But your post has this not-quite-subtle "you are all idiots for believing it is God's will" tone that sucks
daanibee she is not responding to the op but to something said by another poster. But great way to get that argument started on believers vs. non believers.
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moveablefeast
do justice, love mercy
PeaNut 265,707
June 2006
Posts: 11,118
Layouts: 0
Loc: Northern Virginia
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:01:33 PM
I don't think God did design the world imperfectly.
This is my line of thinking - it's a little bit "in development", so there are probably holes in my imagination.
First is that God created everything: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Then God formed everything, and God saw that it was good. Then he created animals, and then he created man, and he said it was very good. It was very good! It wasn't our enemy. Adam and Eve didn't even need clothes. It was perfect. Then God and man lived in great harmony, with love and intimacy together, and man was neither afraid nor unsafe, and man was guiltless.
Now here is where my thinking diverges a little from traditional Christian thinking: I suspect there was some form of rebellion in the angelic realm that corrupted the world and introduced brokenness and evil. Then man fell, and man was ejected from Paradise, and man became subject to all the brokenness that was outside the Garden, the world outside the Garden being, I believe, the source of the serpent, who managed to sneak into Paradise, and further exploit man's free will.
Now the reason I think this is possible, and not completely extrabiblical, is this: if you go read Genesis 4, there are other people on the planet besides the offspring of Adam and Eve. They have been living outside Paradise long enough for Cain to know that when he is banished from the presence of God, he is in danger from others who are also outside the Garden. There is *something* going on outside the Garden and it is not good.
Now however that worked - and I don't know how that worked - it is clear that man was safe in the presence of God, and unsafe in the absence of God.
We don't live in Paradise. We live in a world that is broken, is imperfect, is tainted by sin, and contains evil. It is clear that this is not the world that Adam and Eve lived in. However that happened, we do not live in Paradise.
I believe that God has been working to set right what has been wrong since we got booted out of Paradise. That when we see tragedy, we are seeing the effects of life in a broken and imperfect world, and that what we can look forward to is the perfection, the goodness, and the safety in God's presence that we had before everything went wrong.
We will have Paradise again. It will be a place where there are no death, no disaster, no tears, no heartache, no fear - just God. Just the presence, the protection, the eternal company of God, who is good. That's the promise. | |
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Carey Ayn
why
PeaNut 41,258
June 2002
Posts: 17,552
Layouts: 321
Loc: Minnesota
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:02:37 PM
I tend toward agnostic, but if I were trying to explain it from my spiritual side (that I just can't completely ignore), I believe that God and science work together and that God doesn't cause things to happen. It has nothing to do with population control, getting back at evildoers or original sin. The Earth/Universe is perfect in the way it is all connected. Plate tectonics, wave motion, volcanos...they are all needed to keep other parts of the Earth functioning properly. It is a complex network that is not meant to punish but function to maintain life.
The human body is amazing and perfect in its complexity. Why did God give us hearts that can go bad? Cells (amazing little things that they are) that can mutate and cause Cancer? Why give us eyes that cannot see or ears that cannot hear?
My answer is that "he" doesn't. That God generally does not intervene (at least for bad things) and that they are the logical consequence of human impetus or the circle of life that naturally occurs in order to maintain homeostasis of some sort.
God doesn't cause it. It just is. |
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identicaltriplets
To God be the Glory!
PeaNut 221,552
September 2005
Posts: 6,221
Layouts: 435
Loc: Glad to be back in the Carolinas!
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:03:29 PM
Captain K, I am sorry for your struggle today. I pray that God will give you His peace and that you can cling to Him and that in all things you know He is sovereign and in control.
Matthew 24:6-8 tells us "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."
We see all of these things (earthquakes, tsunamis, Egypt, Saudi Arabi, etc.) becoming more intense because we know the coming of the Lord is near. Now near to Him could still be thousands of years or it may be tomorrow. My faith allows me to know I can trust Him for His perfect plan to be revealed. I cannot fear or worry but place my trust fully in Him. That alone gives me peace, and I certainly pray for all of those that have been affected by today's tragedy. My husband could have been in Tokyo today. I am praising God he wasn't but again, in all things I know God is Sovereign and in control. May He give you His perfect peace. Blessings, |
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Mystie
Dancing to the end of love.
PeaNut 8,446
December 2000
Posts: 11,797
Layouts: 173
Loc: Newport News, VA
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:05:47 PM
It may be imperfect in your eyes, but I believe (with what little faith I have)that what God created *is* perfect. Instead of destroying itself, the earth expands and contracts on its own--it clashes with itself in perfect harmony, things mutate, things die, things are reborn in what maybe seen as chaos, but to me is a perfect dance. That *is* God.
This is exactly how I look at it, too.
ETA:
The Earth/Universe is perfect in the way it is all connected. Plate tectonics, wave motion, volcanos...they are all needed to keep other parts of the Earth functioning properly. It is a complex network that is not meant to punish but function to maintain life.
Oh, and this, too.  |
Janelle
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Pea-rpindicular
PeaNut
PeaNut 418,577
April 2009
Posts: 71
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 3/11/2011 3:10:07 PM
But he DID. The world WAS perfect until sin came into the picture with Eve and then Adam.
This is also something I don't understand. BILLIONS of people have suffered over the actions of TWO people? God would then punish every single person ever to be born because two people "disobeyed" him. Just does not make sense to me. | |
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khazlett
BucketHead
PeaNut 231,422
November 2005
Posts: 755
Layouts: 0
Loc: USA
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:23:59 PM
Because he didn't create the earth. Sorry, agnostic here. The way all you "faithful" struggle with your faith all the time. *shrug*. Just don't get it sometimes.
Population control? Ew. Sometimes I'm very glad to be an atheist. In my world, shit happens and I don't need to assign motive to things that happen. Earthquakes and tsunamis are grounded in science, not voodoo or God or because people need to be punished for homosexuality.
Maybe if you or a family member becomes ill or injured, you could forego treatment since you'd be flouting God's means of population control.
What is wrong with you people. Have some tolerance for people who have a view other than yours! You say Christians aren't tolerant. It appears you two are much more condeming than Christians. | |
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:26:06 PM
But he DID. The world WAS perfect until sin came into the picture with Eve and then Adam.
This is also something I don't understand. BILLIONS of people have suffered over the actions of TWO people? God would then punish every single person ever to be born because two people "disobeyed" him. Just does not make sense to me.
That addressed the question of why Earth is apparently imperfect. It does not mean God is punishing us for one couples sins, but explaining why God did not give us a perfect Eden.
I also do not think natural disasters or tragedies are punishment at all. See above explanation  |
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klh54
Jeepers PEApers
PeaNut 257,883
April 2006
Posts: 2,203
Layouts: 46
Loc: Louisiana
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:27:43 PM
Patter, you said it perfectly! |
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Edgy Coolness
PeaFixture
PeaNut 365,853
March 2008
Posts: 3,514
Layouts: 0
Loc: Dallas, Texas
 |  Posted: 3/11/2011 3:32:29 PM
I think the answer to your question lies in Genesis and the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. When "man" sinned against God all the "safety" of the Perfection of God was removed and "man" was cast out into the "imperfect" world that gave hardship and suffering to him. |
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scrapApea
PeaAddict
PeaNut 23,080
October 2001
Posts: 1,886
Layouts: 0
Loc: where seasons change
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:34:16 PM
God created a perfect world. It was man's sin that caused the trouble in this world Genesis 3:17 “Cursed is the ground because of you" So don't blame God for creating these troubles. He may send trouble to get people back to the right path. | |
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Hoosier2
Pea of Many Trades
PeaNut 114,991
November 2003
Posts: 7,386
Layouts: 2
Loc: Iowa unfortunately
| Posted: 3/11/2011 3:46:06 PM
we try to put God into our human lifestyle and thinking and He will never fit into that box. we are wasting time trying to make everything fit into a nice neat box... | |
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SDeven
Love Letters Pea
PeaNut 65,852
January 2003
Posts: 28,197
Layouts: 380
Loc: Nashville, TN!
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:00:40 PM
If faith were easy, and all the answers were obvious, it wouldn't require any of us to grow or think of things outside ourselves.
My first question is *did* God create the world imperfectly? How do you know? To answer it you really have to study the nature and the characteristics of God.
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Gsquaredmom
One step closer to Pea hD
PeaNut 259,367
April 2006
Posts: 7,947
Layouts: 0
Loc: Chicago suburbs
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:23:01 PM
How do you know it's imperfect?
Some scientists have suggested that without plate tectonics, there would be no life on Earth.
While I abhor the loss of life as much as everyone else, maybe the actions of plate tectonics are not being done TO us, but FOR us. I think the Earth is one big, beautiful, complex machine, with natural, perfectly-designed elements. We are lucky to be guests here.
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rachelrainbow
PeaNut
PeaNut 469,839
May 2010
Posts: 207
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 3/11/2011 4:25:45 PM
Simple. Because there is NO GOD! | |
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:35:46 PM
How do you know it's imperfect?
Some scientists have suggested that without plate tectonics, there would be no life on Earth.
While I abhor the loss of life as much as everyone else, maybe the actions of plate tectonics are not being done TO us, but FOR us. I think the Earth is one big, beautiful, complex machine, with natural, perfectly-designed elements. We are lucky to be guests here.
ITA, I couldn't get the words to make sense like you could!
Simple. Because there is NO GOD!
YOU don't believe in God. That does not mean you can dictate whether He is exists or not. Why do you feel the need to make such a statement on a Christian-based thread? We're discussing spiritual opinions and beliefs. Do you really think that stating "There is NO GOD!" is going to do anything besides look pathetic? It doesn't change our minds, NOR does it contribute to the conversation in any way. You're atheist, whatever, thats great, but trying to make Christians feel inferior for their beliefs is wrong
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peasbkind
Right . . . where I ought to be!
PeaNut 458,467
March 2010
Posts: 5,994
Layouts: 0
Loc: On the beach. . . if only in my mind
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:38:29 PM
Simple. Because there is NO GOD!
Since the op clearly believes in God (as evidenced in her thread title and message), this clearly is not the place for that comment. It would be one thing if the op raised the issue of God's existence, but since she didn't your tossing that in there, and particularly the use of all-caps, was disrespectful of the op.
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OLW 2012 == authentic
 
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rachelrainbow
PeaNut
PeaNut 469,839
May 2010
Posts: 207
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:44:10 PM
YOU don't believe in God. That does not mean you can dictate whether He is exists or not. Why do you feel the need to make such a statement on a Christian-based thread? We're discussing spiritual opinions and beliefs. Do you really think that stating "There is NO GOD!" is going to do anything besides look pathetic? It doesn't change our minds, NOR does it contribute to the conversation in any way. You're atheist, whatever, thats great, but trying to make Christians feel inferior for their beliefs is wrong
Ok then, do you want to be pot, or kettle?
You're right, I don't dictate whether there is or is not, but then again, neither do you. | |
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rachelrainbow
PeaNut
PeaNut 469,839
May 2010
Posts: 207
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:47:58 PM
Population control? Ew. Sometimes I'm very glad to be an atheist. In my world, shit happens and I don't need to assign motive to things that happen. Earthquakes and tsunamis are grounded in science, not voodoo or God or because people need to be punished for homosexuality.
Maybe if you or a family member becomes ill or injured, you could forego treatment since you'd be flouting God's means of population control.
Great point! It's like saying it is okay for hundreds to die because of a natural disaster and it's "god's will", but if you're facing some deadly disease, didn't god create that, too? So why go against what god has planned for you? | |
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lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker
PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 14,375
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:49:32 PM
Why do you feel the need to make such a statement on a Christian-based thread?
Where did anyone mention Christianity? There ARE non-Christians who believe in God.
Way to make the rest of us feel welcome in the thread, though. |
LUCYG
northern california
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell
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WannaPea
No Peas for you ! Come back one year!
PeaNut 151,172
June 2004
Posts: 26,834
Layouts: 175
Loc: In my PJ's
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:51:27 PM
Through sin and choice, man turns this into a more imperfect world everyday.
There has to be some means of population control.
Adam and Eve screwed it all up with the Fall.
because we do not deserve it.
The world WAS perfect until sin came into the picture with Eve and then Adam.
God may be frustrated with us because we do not learn!
When "man" sinned against God all the "safety" of the Perfection of God was removed and "man" was cast out into the "imperfect" world that gave hardship and suffering to him.
I understand faith. I used to be faithful. But I don't understand this. Nothing like blaming the victims! Rubbish.
A cursory search of Google will yield a basic understanding of what causes earthquakes. The fact that some occur in majorly populated centers is happenstance - just as it is happenstance that you were not born in India and therefore might be questioning why Lord Shiva would be allowing this to happen.
Yes, bad things happen everywhere-some more than others. Why are children in Africa starving and dying? Why are some other countries living in abject poverty and filth and violence? But when bad things happen, people respond to try and help. People of all faiths and NO faith jump at the chance to help and comfort and care for others. Even us evil old atheists donate our time and money in the face of human suffering. That is all we can do; come together and help in a time of need.
I am so sorry you are struggling. I know the feeling well, as I've been there too. The questioning has now stopped for me, but I wish you well in your search for answers. |
Cop's wife - Mom to one
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." ~ Delos B. McKown
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:53:28 PM
Ok then, do you want to be pot, or kettle?
You're right, I don't dictate whether there is or is not, but then again, neither do you.
You're right, I DON'T. When I talk about my religion, it is all about MY beliefs. I have never once said, on this thread or in real life, that you as an atheist are wrong for not believing. I have never said that MY God and MY faith is the true way to go, or the only real option. I believe in God. I believe he exists. I do not say, "I know FOR SURE that God exists." I truly in my heart believe that he does, my proof is in my soul. Because I have no tangible, scientific based proof, I do not try and convince others of my beliefs. It is YOU who is dictating His existence, making others feel ignorant, and belittling beliefs.
You can be pot or kettle, but I'll just stick to being a respectful person, thanks. |
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BeeDubya
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 306,387
March 2007
Posts: 2,227
Layouts: 63
Loc: New york’s hottest club is Gush.
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:55:26 PM
You're atheist, whatever, thats great, but trying to make Christians feel inferior for their beliefs is wrong
You're doing the exact same thing in saying the above. It's a message board. People are bound to give their opinions. I don't think she said anything horrible. You don't *agree* with her opinion but she's still allowed to give it. |
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LunchBox
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PeaNut 47,228
August 2002
Posts: 9,872
Layouts: 0
Loc: Australia
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:55:58 PM
Instead of destroying itself, the earth expands and contracts on its own--it clashes with itself in perfect harmony, things mutate, things die, things are reborn in what maybe seen as chaos, but to me is a perfect dance.
This is how I see it. I don't believe it was the fall of man, or sin or population control or anything to do with God controlling the movements of the earth. I believe we as humans are drawn to want to live in the most beautiful and fertile parts of earth and sometimes those areas are dangerous from a geographic point of view. Japan is well aware of the dangers of earthquakes, they engineer their buildings to withstand them and have numerous tsunami proof towns along their coastlines. Where the population is higher the death rates are high. We know it's dangerous, we choose to live there anyway. I don't think it has anything to do with God. I think the recovery effort has everything to do with how humans interact with each other and some believe they've been directed by God to help and that can't be a bad thing. It is now up to us as humans to help out and that is where our free will comes in. |
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daanibee
PeaAddict
PeaNut 277,719
September 2006
Posts: 1,223
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:56:15 PM
Where did anyone mention Christianity? There ARE non-Christians who believe in God.
Way to make the rest of us feel welcome in the thread, though.
I'm sorry, Lucy, it was ignorance on my part. I generally associate God with Christian denominations and the like. Of course other people believe in God. I apologize for my ignorance.
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leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 19,575
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:59:17 PM
What is your understanding of why, from a spiritual point of view, we are subjected to natural disasters that are not a result of our sin but rather a result of the design of the planet by God? If He is perfect, why didn't he create an earth that was physically infallable?
I believe the evidence that the earth is well over 4 billion years old - the sun older than 10 billion.
In the history of the earth, a tsunumai is nothing but a wave.
Entire continents have formed, broken apart and reformed over and over, so one earthquake is nothing in retrospect.
I believe that souls come to earth to learn and that Hell is on earth. I don't believe in an earth that is a paradise, where nothing bad happens.
I have never had any trouble holding a scientific view of the world along with a spiritual view of the soul.
The earth is what it is. We just happen to live here.
ETA -
It may be imperfect in your eyes, but I believe (with what little faith I have)that what God created *is* perfect. Instead of destroying itself, the earth expands and contracts on its own--it clashes with itself in perfect harmony, things mutate, things die, things are reborn in what maybe seen as chaos, but to me is a perfect dance. That *is* God.
That's how I see it too. When you step back from just our own lives and see it over time, it is a miraculous place.
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If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
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daanibee
PeaAddict
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 4:59:53 PM
You're doing the exact same thing in saying the above. It's a message board. People are bound to give their opinions. I don't think she said anything horrible. You don't *agree* with her opinion but she's still allowed to give it.
It was not the fact that the poster did not believe in God/is an atheist, it was the tone in which I think she said it. This, of course, is all perception. The smileys and capitals just seemed very belittling.
If she had said, "I don't believe in God, therefore I don't believe there is any spiritual will in natural disasters." That would be one thing. But "There is NO GOD" just came across as rude, to me.
Atheists are not wrong or bad people or "evil" or anything like that, I certainly don't want to seem like I am attacking her opinion. In my opinion, it is all about respect, and I don't think she had any for those who believe in God.
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"Wit beyond measure is man's Greatest Treasure!"
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lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:06:55 PM
I'm sorry, Lucy, it was ignorance on my part. I generally associate God with Christian denominations and the like. Of course other people believe in God. I apologize for my ignorance.
no prob, daanibee ... I am sure I overreacted. |
LUCYG
northern california
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell
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rachelrainbow
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:08:05 PM
You're right, I DON'T. When I talk about my religion, it is all about MY beliefs. I have never once said, on this thread or in real life, that you as an atheist are wrong for not believing. I have never said that MY God and MY faith is the true way to go, or the only real option. I believe in God. I believe he exists. I do not say, "I know FOR SURE that God exists." I truly in my heart believe that he does, my proof is in my soul. Because I have no tangible, scientific based proof, I do not try and convince others of my beliefs. It is YOU who is dictating His existence, making others feel ignorant, and belittling beliefs.
You are right. You didn't. But when I talk about religion, is is about MY beliefs, or rather non-belief. I never said you were wrong for believing, either, or that it is the only way to go. See? It works both ways
I prefer to not think these things happen because of some "greater plan". It would be completely unsettling to me to put faith in some higher power who causes these things to happen. I refuse to believe that I don't deserve a good world and that the actions of two people, Adam and Eve, would forever dictate our fate. Maybe Adam ate the apple becuase he was hungry and was afraid if he starved to death, human-kind could not go on. Who knows? Answer: nobody really knows becuase it was a book written thousands of years ago, passed through many hands, and surely changed somehow in all that time.
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*maureen*
Bad Wolf
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:08:33 PM
I think that G-d does things like this to teach us something. Not in bad way but in a good way, not retribution of an angry G-d, but more like "love your neighbor and help those in need."
Why do you feel the need to make such a statement on a Christian-based thread?
G-d belongs to more than the Christians. Quite frankly, world wide Christians are the minority. | |
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BeeDubya
StuckOnPeas
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:09:03 PM
I gotcha, Daanibee. I can see how it would read that way. I just get a bit touchy when I see comments like your reply because I've been looked down on before for my lack of belief. I don't think I would've framed my reply the way rachelrainbow did but it's her opinion so I don't think it's right to say she looks pathetic for saying it.
I don't mind having a conversation about religion but I think both sides need to be respectful. |
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biochemipea
likes shiny things
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:12:15 PM
I have a hard time understanding how the fall of man could result in shifting tetonic plates that bump or catch against each other and cause an earthquake. How did poor Eve's sin change the entire physical structure of the world? Was God providing some sort of pro-active protective force, to hold the entire inner workings of the world in place, and just let it all go when Eve ate an apple?
Ashley.
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schizo319
...And now it's time for a breakdown
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:13:45 PM
This pretty much sums it up for me:
It may be imperfect in your eyes, but I believe (with what little faith I have)that what God created *is* perfect. Instead of destroying itself, the earth expands and contracts on its own--it clashes with itself in perfect harmony, things mutate, things die, things are reborn in what maybe seen as chaos, but to me is a perfect dance. That *is* God.
Beautifully said, Angie. |
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daanibee
PeaAddict
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:16:18 PM
I gotcha, Daanibee. I can see how it would read that way. I just get a bit touchy when I see comments like your reply because I've been looked down on before for my lack of belief. I don't think I would've framed my reply the way rachelrainbow did but it's her opinion so I don't think it's right to say she looks pathetic for saying it.
I don't mind having a conversation about religion but I think both sides need to be respectful.
I agree! I am a faithful Christian, and talking about religion is one of my favorite things to do. People comfortable and confident in their faith often provide some really interesting opinions I would not have thought of.
And RachelRainbow, you are 100% entitled to your opinion, and I would never say you are wrong for believing what you do. (I even agree with your last post to an extent; that we wiill never truly understand or know what happened thousands of years ago.) I just really felt that your tone was condescending, If that was not your intention, I apologize. I also know I got a little... heated, to say the least. I get very sick of people who think that religious people are morons. |
"Wit beyond measure is man's Greatest Treasure!"
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GrinningCat
Proudly Canadian
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:16:41 PM
I have a hard time understanding how the fall of man could result in shifting tetonic plates that bump or catch against each other and cause an earthquake. How did poor Eve's sin change the entire physical structure of the world? Was God providing some sort of pro-active protective force, to hold the entire inner workings of the world in place, and just let it all go when Eve ate an apple?
You said exactly what I was thinking. The explanations that a story from a book is the reason why earthquakes and tsunamis happen. I don't see any possible connection between the two. |
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WannaPea
No Peas for you ! Come back one year!
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| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:17:05 PM
Quite frankly, world wide Christians are the minority.
Christians are the minority ? |
Cop's wife - Mom to one
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." ~ Delos B. McKown
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leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.
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March 2009
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Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.
| Posted: 3/11/2011 5:18:08 PM
I have a hard time understanding how the fall of man could result in shifting tetonic plates that bump or catch against each other and cause an earthquake. How did poor Eve's sin change the entire physical structure of the world? Was God providing some sort of pro-active protective force, to hold the entire inner workings of the world in place, and just let it all go when Eve ate an apple?
Especially since the earth came first, and these events began before Eve.
The Bible tells us the earth came before Eve, and I take liberty with what a day means..... so I don't combine the growing pains of the earth with the sin of Eve.
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If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.
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