does TH own stampers anon?

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Posted 7/12/2012 by 1sassyPea in General Scrappin'
 

1sassyPea
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Posted: 7/12/2012 3:16:47 PM
makes me think "yes"

I know that he really doesn't design his stamps from paper, that clip art was a jumping point but....does he use other artists?

Or is his name on things for marketing reasons only?



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Posted: 7/12/2012 4:31:44 PM
They may be slapping Tim's name on the stamps because his stuff sells.

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:00:44 PM
ETA: Ok I went back and read the post a 2nd time. Apparently I can't carry on a conversation, watch the news and read a blog post all at the same time without being distracted. lol! I missed the whole italicized section saying that Tim's name was put on stamps that were actually designed by other artists for SA who never got recognition. Ouch. But even so, how the heck would something like that even happen?? Wouldn't Stamper's Anonymous KNOW that he wasn't the artist? Wouldn't they KNOW not to put a person's name on a product that wasn't designed by them? Or maybe SA did know and they chose to use a more well-known name for marketing reasons. Still, I think that the original artists should get a piece of the pie and had their names been used in the marketing, they would be as well-known as Tim's. Hmmmm.... I'm gonna have to ponder this for awhile.... Unless Tim OWNS Stamper's Anonymous, I don't think he did anything wrong. I think someone used his name to make a dollar and now that a set of stamps is being re-released, it's opened up a whole can of worms with the original artists.

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:03:33 PM
I don't think he owns SA though, sounds like Ted Cutts does. Should be simple enough to figure out? (for someone with better googling skillz than I. )

My impression was that he had his own line through SA. Kinda like Ali E had her own line through TT. Within that line, I thought he designed those products. Even if he's using the clipart stuff, I think he still designs the end product. He talked about the re-release of these stamps and said quite openly they weren't his designs. It's on his blog. Is his name on the re-release? Because I hadn't noticed and that does seem confusing. But again, he talked about it all recently on his blog.


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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:05:44 PM
Just a little refresher on the "negative press" here.

I do wonder if he has control over what goes on not only "his" stamps, but anything else there. It seems more he's sold his name to them and they're just using it on whatever they can to make money.


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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:13:04 PM
Ok, they say 'classic favorites,' so I think his name is on them because he chose them as his favorites. Talks about it here .

Aren't there other designer lines thru SA?


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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:16:08 PM
I collected Stampers Anonymous stamps long before Tim came on the scene. I still have, love and use those beautiful wood mounted stamps, quite a few of which I see within these new cling sets. Saw these "new" Classic Clings on a site I order from fairly frequently, and my first thought was "that's strange." It's made to sound like TH chose these from his old SA favorites, and is offering them now in cling form sets, but with his name on them. I sympathize completely with the original SA owner who posted her thoughts on her blog. Sure, maybe his name might make the sales jump, but they are not his stamps, are they? Tim is an innovative guy and I have a bazillion of his products, both for SA and Ranger. This just seems a little 'over the top.'

Molly

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:16:47 PM
{ETA: I'm talking to myself, answering the question i asked at the end in my last post...}

Ok, no, he's not the only 'name' on the SA roster. That lady linked in OP said he was the first. I just quickly glanced, but thy also have Claudine helmuth and dylusions, which is Dyan reeves or something (brain fade, ?).
linky loo

{another ETA: I asked this and pointed it out because someone implied his name was on *all* SA stamps. Also, since his name is on these as he chose them as favorites, it is conceivable other designers will be doing something similar eventually.}


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GeorgiaMolly
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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:28:15 PM
The difference is Tim did not design these stamps - others did.

Molly

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:31:29 PM
Yeah, and he says that on the first link I posted.

I'm not a groupie either, have very few of his products as vintage grungy is not my thing--but I'm getting annoyed by the lack of close reading and simple fact checking and we're only 9 posts in!


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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:39:26 PM
I just always assumed Tim Holtz designed very little of the stuff with his name on it. I thought he was an artist who would pick and choose things he likes then market them under his name. I think of "Tim Holtz" as a brand more than an individual. I thought he was the person who approves what "his line" of products will consist of.

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:46:41 PM
Yes he posted on his blog that these are his favorites from the SA classics, but the product packaging makes it look like it's old Tim designs.

I like Tim holtz products. I am a big fan. I saw those stamps and thought they were his... and they arn't. I can see why the old owner, who was in control of the company when those old stamps were issued, would be a little upset. She knows the original designers.

I'm not saying it's wrong to have the collection of favorites. I'm not saying she is right to blast Tim like that. I am simply saying that when I first saw those stamps, I thought they were Tim's and I think a lot of other people will too. I think they put Tim's name on them because his name sells product.

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Posted: 7/12/2012 5:49:45 PM
Fact checking shouldn't be needed. I don't go to Tim's blog because I simply don't like his style. If I saw these in a store with only his name name on it and no other explanation then I would think they were his designs, as would most people that don't read his blog but know his style. They certainly look like something he would come up with.

There are a lot of people that don't get online anyways and might quite like Tim's stuff. They wouldn't think to check if he designed them, if his name is the only one on them why would they think he didn't?

I think it's easy here at 2Peas to assume the general scrapping and stamping population thinks like we do when that is simply not true.


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Posted: 7/12/2012 6:07:41 PM

but I'm getting annoyed by the lack of close reading and simple fact checking and we're only 9 posts in!


Guilty. I'm sorry I wasn't paying close attention and obviously was not reading the blog post word-for-word. I edited my post above to reflect that. My bad.

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Posted: 7/12/2012 6:10:30 PM
TashaK, Well, I was referring to my comment that was misunderstood. Close reading and fact checking in the context of this thread--where we ARE all on 2peas.

I can see what you're saying, though. I didn't read the post at first, just glanced at the pictures and thought they weren't his style at all, so then saw the 'classic favorites,' and read it closer. I get what you're saying though.
(eta-scrapstitcher, thx, tho I can't remember if your post was one that annoyed me or not LOL)


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Posted: 7/12/2012 7:52:03 PM
OP, that article is interesting - and so are the comments! Some commenters are posting that the (original owner blogger) didn't pay royalties or give credit to the artists either. Obviously she just released them as Stampers anonymous (perhaps that's the anonymous part? )

I would have looked at that package and I would have assumed that Tim Holtz designed those stamps yrs ago. Otherwise, the packaging should say "chosen/favorites/selection by TH"!

Does anyone know how stamping companies work? Do they normally just pay the artist for the drawing one time and that's it? Do they normally keep getting royalties on their work for each stamp sold?

I just looked at stamps sets from Hero Arts, Maya Road, and Inkadinkado - and NONE of the packages list the names of the artists anywhere.

I think SA should change their packaging in this case. I'm just curious as to the stamping industry standard re: giving credit, payment for the original art, royalties

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Posted: 7/13/2012 12:50:26 AM
Each stamp company has different policies on how they use the image, the whole "name on things" got crazy bad with the scrapbooking industry....in general.

In recent years in stamping, with unmounted and clear stamp packaging there was room to credit the illustrator.

I know TH doesn't draw anything himself when it comes to his stamps...I just thought he would have done more creative directing before allowing his name to be sold on something.

I got the impression he would pick vintage copy free images and tweak them a bit to make them his own...NOT actually use something totally from someone else. After all, when I buy something with Martha Stewerts name on it, I don't think SHE actually drew the image to make into a punch. WOW, I shouldn't compare MS to TH because yea---totally different leagues there, but you get my idea. Maybe TH is more of a design house brand now and NOT a product designer.

I thought it was interesting. If he didn't have anything to do with the original design, then why would he put his name on it.



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Posted: 7/13/2012 1:15:09 AM

WOW, I shouldn't compare MS to TH because yea---totally different leagues there, but you get my idea. Maybe TH is more of a design house brand now and NOT a product designer.


I think of him more as a brand for sure. I think he is more hands on than Martha but to me his "thing" is techniques and showing you how to use a product not so much being the actual inventor or designer of the product.

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Posted: 7/13/2012 8:57:28 AM

Did any of you get the feeling/vibe that the blog writer was slapping TH for exactly the same thing she did (well, or didn't do in this case)?


I got the feeling there is a whole lot more to this story. My impression was some people really, really dislike Tim Holtz and see him as some sort of outsider in the craft community.

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Posted: 7/13/2012 9:33:31 AM

Oh wow, I didn't know that.
That makes me a little sad.

Do you all think it is simply because TH and his brand is
so popular?


I don't know if it's true. I mean it is hard to get tone in written words and that is just my take on the comments.

I do think some people might have issues because he is a big name. More than that I think it's business and I think sometimes in business one party ends up unhappy with the deals they have made. IMO part of Tim's success is being smart with how he does business. He has a signature style and he puts out products just different enough that it piques our interest and prices them so they are in general very affordable. Most everything he puts out (aside from the Vagabond) is under $20 and lots of it under $5.

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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:34:37 AM
One of the comments on the blog post

"I am a little confused. These artists recieved no recognition nor royalties when they designed for you, yet it is only now you are standing their corner!! Is this not a little like the pot calling the kettle black.
Tim has made it quite clear that Ted asked him to choose his favourites from earlier times to be re released. Surely that can only be a good thing? I don't see anywhere were Tim is taking the credit for these stamps!"

Tim is not claiming that they are his own designs. His name is used as a 'brand within a brand' (like Ali Edwards within Technique Tuesday). The companies who they are licensed too are using the perceived value of their name in the marketplace.

I don't think he would have much, if any, say in the end packaging design. However, his name does only appear in a small font on the top of the packaging, it's hardly splashed across the front in huge lettering!

Ooops, to answer the original question, no TH doesn't own SA.





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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:35:54 AM
Hi Everyone, I am the original owner of Stampers Anonymous and I have been reading all your comments here. I would like to answer some questions for you.
1. I do not dislike Tim Holtz. In fact, I admire how he has managed his career making a name for himself and a good living. He can be very generous, fun, kind and is talented at what he does. I am guessing we are no longer friendly acquaintances.
2. When I owned the company rubber stamping was in it's infancy and no one paid royalties or put artist's names on the stamps. I think Tim was the first and smart to do so. I never hid my artist's names from the public, but the internet was not as prevalent as it is now. No blogs, no Facebook, no huge chat rooms like this. There were new websites and catalogs and stamp shows. The only really commercial stamp companies were Hero Arts and a few others.
3. I am not asking Ted (current Owner) and Tim to identify or pay royalties to the old artists. I am asking that they make the packaging clear that the designs are not Tim's. Giving verbal credit is very different from one's actions. The casual buyer who may not follow Tim's blog should not be deceived into thinking the designs are his.
4. I was not trying to start an internet war. I simply think the owner of Stampers Anonymous, who owns 6 or 7 rubber stamp companies, should know better and do the right thing. I do not know if it was his or Tim's idea to put TH on the packaging, but in my opinion, it is not the right thing to do. Evidently, many people agree with me. It has spread fairly wide on FaceBook among artists, not scrapbookers who generally are the ones who buy Tim's product.
5. And yes, I joined today just to post this. The former artists at SA are all my friends. Sure we are all sorry we were not more business-like back in the day, but SA was much smaller and much less profitable before Tim came on board and Ted bought the company from me.

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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:46:32 AM

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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:46:41 AM
not reading every post here, but I did skim thru Ginny's post on her blog, and I skimmed thru T!m's post on his blog.

SO:
1) Tim says that he has been asking for some of the 'classic' Stamper's Anonymous stamps to be re-released, and that (whoever runs) Stamper's Anonymous asked him to choose his favorites for that release.

And it's easy to see- if you know his style, that is- by looking at them; they are totally NOT his grungy style at all- not to mention that Tim-designed stamps say 'Tim Holtz Collection' on them, so the logo IS different.

2) These classic stamps have been re-released on the cling sheets, with Tim's name up at the top next to the SA logo- to denote that he chose them as his favorites, I'm assuming. If Tim doesn't own/run SA, and it sounds like he doesn't, why is it HIS fault that SA put his name on the packaging? Shouldn't you/we be mad at SA for this oversight, not Tim? And how is it Tim's fault that SA never put the designer's name on them at the time they were originally released?

sounds more to me like someone has it out for Tim...

ETA: one more point, in light of the discussions we've had about Amy Tan / Recollections, etc. ...The original contract those artists had with SA may have said that once they designed the images, SA owned the rights to them (I don't know that, I'm just speculating). If that is the case, then SA would be perfectly within their rights to NOT put the artists' name on them. Just a thought.




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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:58:16 AM
thought it was interesting. If he didn't have anything to do with the original design, then why would he put his name on it.




just to clarify: Tim Holtz did NOT put his name on it; the COMPANY decided to put his name on it. (Saying that Tim put his name on it is misleading. It's a fine point, yes, but that's how I am.)






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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:15:10 AM

Tim is not claiming that they are his own designs. His name is used as a 'brand within a brand' (like Ali Edwards within Technique Tuesday). The companies who they are licensed too are using the perceived value of their name in the marketplace.


Exactly my thoughts. I always considered his name on stamps and other products a 'brand' type of endorsement for a company. Many companies do this, its called marketing. Marketing is there for a reason - to help promote the brand to its highest possible potential. I've designed things myself and not had direct credit, but thats what you're paid for. Its a job.

I don't think TH owns Stampers Anonymous at all, never got that from the article. It stated Ted Cutts was the owner.



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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:18:16 AM
Hi Jennifer, Either you really did just skim my post or I did not state it well. If you read it more carefully perhaps you would understand my point.
1. YES, the current owner CAN do whatever he likes with the old images.
2. NO, I do not have it out for Tim.
3. Assuming that people know anything/everything is always a mistake.
4. If you look at the logo on the Stamp2Cut using the original SA images, it clearly says "BY Tim Holtz".
5. It is always difficult to discern a poster's tone of voice and attitude online.
6. I will say yet again that I just think, in my opinion, that SA should not have packaging that might let one think that the images are Tim's. The original images have always been available, just not in cling mount.
Ginny

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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:32:48 AM


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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:39:00 AM
All the hoopla over an opinion?

Because this:


but SA was much smaller and much less profitable before Tim came on board and Ted bought the company from me.


Just sounds to me like someone with different marketing skills and/or more resources came along and did things differently.

As some peas made reference before, Martha Stewart does not design everything with her name on it.






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Posted: 7/13/2012 12:32:42 PM
I think we are all forgetting something-has anyone actually held these stamp sets in their hands or have they just come out and aren't available yet? What I'm getting at is what does it say on the BACK of the packages?

I'm thinking on the back it will clarify and tell the story Tim posted on his website-that he's been asking for these stamps to be re-released and Ted (the owner of Stamper's Anonymous said yes and went so far as to tell Tim to pick his favorites).

But even if it doesn't Tim hasn't done ANYTHING wrong here and I'm just sick that his name is being dragged through the mud. I've met him several times and he is warm, generous, kind, thoughtful and extremely talented. No I'm not a groupie. I met him in 2005 and 2006 at Club Scrap Retreats, long before he became "famous".

Personally I think the former owner of Stamper's Anonymous is having a case of sour grapes. She didn't give credit to the stampers who's work she purchased nor did she pay royalties to them when she owned the company. And all that business about how "it was during the infant days of family owned stamp companies who were pretty naive about marketing and commercialism" to me is an excuse.

I'm not a lawyer nor am I an artist (I'm a former professional photographer) and I know that when I sold my images to be used on a CD booklet I had to sign a contract regarding my rights and what I was giving to the buyer. If I gave them "all rights" it meant they owned the images and could do what they wanted with them. I didn't do that-I specified that my name be put on every image that was to be published. BTW, I was new to this as the bulk of my business focused on wedding photography, but I did my research (this was back in 1991-no Internet then either).

Those artists who sold their work to the original owner's company, SU had the chance to refuse to sell unless their name was credited with their artwork. I'm assuming they chose to sell "all rights". That was their choice. Because SU was sold to Ted the company still retained those rights, and therefore could do as they wished with the images.

No where is Tim Holtz claiming these stamp images are his. He clearly states that they are not his, but that SU asked him to choose his favorites to re-release which is what he did.

Debbie in MD.

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Posted: 7/13/2012 12:33:21 PM
to FurryPea for putting it so succinctly.

ETA: in regards to the Stamp2cut files, I think Tim's name should go on those if he's the one who came up with the concept / idea / designed the files. I see nothing wrong with that at all. (and I've never met Tim in person, but aside from that, I agree with birukitty's post.)




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Posted: 7/13/2012 1:57:58 PM
Thanks Jennifer (crimsoncat05)

Debbie in MD. (birukitty)

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Posted: 7/13/2012 3:50:39 PM

I got the feeling there is a whole lot more to this story. My impression was some people really, really dislike Tim Holtz and see him as some sort of outsider in the craft community.


Thats a crazy comment! Tims been in crafting long before I started scrapping (hello 10 plus years lol)

I agree Janet this whole thread is sad... There is so much more to packaging and branding then what we see on a pack of stamps. And it sounds to me like the orginial owner is feeling bad that she sold out too soon.
Time to move on ladies this is none of our business!


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Posted: 7/13/2012 3:58:04 PM
I agree with her original point though. SA should be making it clear, ON THE PACKAGING, that these are "Tim's Favourites" perhaps. Or something else along the lines of "Tim likes these stamps!" but succinct and to the point that no, Tim did not design these, but he likes them so you should like/buy them too.

Why is that such a bad point? It doesn't matter whose fault it is (other than SA's), the work is someone else's and no one should be able to think, from the packaging in the store alone, that Tim Holtz designed it.


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sunshinestate
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Posted: 7/13/2012 4:31:47 PM

I agree with her original point though. SA should be making it clear, ON THE PACKAGING, that these are "Tim's Favourites" perhaps. Or something else along the lines of "Tim likes these stamps!" but succinct and to the point that no, Tim did not design these, but he likes them so you should like/buy them too.

Why is that such a bad point? It doesn't matter whose fault it is (other than SA's), the work is someone else's and no one should be able to think, from the packaging in the store alone, that Tim Holtz designed it.


Yes! It just feels sneaky to me.


Time to move on ladies this is none of our business!


This is annoying. Who are you to tell us to move on? Obviously people want to discuss it. I'm enjoying the conversation...it's very enlightening. Also, IMHO, it is my business when I'm spending hundreds (if not thousands, but I don't want to think about that ) of dollars on "his" product. It is so weird to me how people "get sick" over threads like this. Tim Holtz is a big boy in a big business and he can take care of himself.

Signed, Tim Holtz fan who is a bit disillusioned at the moment


*****KIM*****


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Posted: 7/13/2012 4:35:01 PM

I agree with her original point though. SA should be making it clear, ON THE PACKAGING, that these are "Tim's Favourites" perhaps. Or something else along the lines of "Tim likes these stamps!" but succinct and to the point that no, Tim did not design these, but he likes them so you should like/buy them too.

Why is that such a bad point? It doesn't matter whose fault it is (other than SA's), the work is someone else's and no one should be able to think, from the packaging in the store alone, that Tim Holtz designed it.

Yes!
I didn't see her as bad mouthing Tim at all, just saying that it needs to be clear, which it is not to the casual crafter, that those are not his images.

It doesn't look like they want recognition now, but they think it shouldn't look like someone is getting recognition for work they didn't do.

Tim probably didn't even know his name was going to be used in that way. Hopefully he puts a stop to it now that it's done. You better believe if someone put their name on his images, even if it was a collection of favorites, he wouldn't stand for it. And no one should.


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Patti3566
PeaNut

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Posted: 7/13/2012 6:30:31 PM
If you read the actual label on the package, it does say "Tim Holtz Stampers Anonymous Classic Favorite"

Which is exactly what I see them to be. Since the original designs were the property of SA, then they are now SA's classic designs.

If the actual artist wanted to be ccompensated or given royalties or credit or whatever forever, then they should have made that deal along time ago. Apparently, they did not. Those designs became the property of SA to do with whatever they wished.


I look at it like this. We all have a favorite something, whether it be a favorite food, a favorite manufacturer, a favorite color, etc....yet we don't claim we designed or created that favorite just by listing it as our favorite.

To me that's what Tim is saying....these are my favorite SA classic stamps. I see no wrong in that at all and it won't taint either TH or SA in my eyes, but the way it was called out on a public blog like the blogger did most certainly tainted my thoughts on her character.

My guess is TH is adored by many not only for his talent but for his kindness and generosity that I don't think this will hurt him. As for Ted, the owner of SA, I have had the pleasure of meeting him and think he is on the up and up business man and one heck of a nice guy too.

SDeven
Love Letters Pea

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Posted: 7/13/2012 8:01:52 PM

If he didn't have anything to do with the original design, then why would he put his name on it.

Because that's what sells product.

Tim did not invent the stapler...yet his name is on the "tiny attacher".
Tim did not invent ink...yet his name is on pens and ink pads.
Tim did not invent paint...but his name is on a line of paint.
Tim did not invent...tissue, charms or Bingo rounds...but his name is on the packaging.

Tim Holtz is beyond just a guy...his name is a brand. His brand fits a certain crafting demographic and he's a stand-out educator. Few personalities in the crafting world have such a dedicated and loyal following.

If you think that everything with his name on it is something *he* designed or whatever, you aren't paying attention.


Tim probably didn't even know his name was going to be used in that way. Hopefully he puts a stop to it now that it's done. You better believe if someone put their name on his images, even if it was a collection of favorites, he wouldn't stand for it. And no one should.


Actually, it's funny you should bring this up. There's a scrapbook store that I visit a few times a year (in another state) that offers a monthly *Tim Holtz Tags* class...and Tim Holtz (the man) is nowhere in sight. But they have no problem filling this class because everyone knows what they are going to get when you say "Tim Holtz style".

Just a day or two ago, I was reading a blog that used the term "timholtzing" as a verb. I think it's a pretty safe assumption to say that he benefits every time someone somewhere does this kind of thing.

Becky Higgins did not invent sub-divided page protectors...
Heidi Swapp did not invent the color pink...








ramblin72
BucketHead

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Posted: 7/13/2012 8:32:40 PM

Signed, Tim Holtz fan who is a bit disillusioned at the moment


you only experience disillusionment if you had an illusion in the first place.

Welcome to your reality check

ramblin72
BucketHead

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Posted: 7/13/2012 8:46:21 PM
These things stood out to me:

Excusing herself from past wrong doings:


When I owned the company rubber stamping was in it's infancy and no one paid royalties or put artist's names on the stamps. I think Tim was the first and smart to do so. I never hid my artist's names from the public, but the internet was not as prevalent as it is now. No blogs, no Facebook, no huge chat rooms like this. There were new websites and catalogs and stamp shows. The only really commercial stamp companies were Hero Arts and a few others.




Actually you didn't ask Ted to do anything. You just posted a public blog post bringing something to the public's attention. How would you even know Ted read your blog. If you want to ask him something - contact him directly. Don't take the passive aggressive approach and hope the mob does your dirty work.


I am not asking Ted (current Owner) and Tim to identify or pay royalties to the old artists. I am asking that they make the packaging clear that the designs are not Tim's.




somebody sounds jealous that the company went on to grow once she left.


I was not trying to start an internet war. I simply think the owner of Stampers Anonymous, who owns 6 or 7 rubber stamp companies, should know better and do the right thing.



The old argument whereby you think your opinion is validated because lots of people agree with you. Of course they are agreeing with you - you told them what they should be thinking from the very start.


but in my opinion, it is not the right thing to do. Evidently, many people agree with me. It has spread fairly wide on FaceBook among artists, not scrapbookers who generally are the ones who buy Tim's product.



Clearly they must be your friends because you did not pay them correctly as artists. I suspect you may not have all the friends you think you do.


The former artists at SA are all my friends.



You basically excuse yourself but think everyone else should be held to task. Sounds again to me you are annoyed at the success of the company without you. Maybe YOU and your dodgy practices were the reason the company didn't succeed as much


Sure we are all sorry we were not more business-like back in the day, but SA was much smaller and much less profitable before Tim came on board and Ted bought the company from me.


I think when looking into the words of your post it clearly identifies your motive in this situation.

3kidmama
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:45:00 PM
Until I read this thread, I thought those "Classic" stamps WERE Tim Holtz designs! The Labeling/Design looks so close to my other cling Tim Holtz stamps.

Why not just make it clearer on the packaging? - because it is so similar, I am definitely left feeling that the Stamper Anonymous people were TRYING to make me think that Tim Holtz was involved in creating these stamps.

My sil is just getting into cardmaking. If she pick up one of these "classics" sets at her local Michael's, I 100% can guarantee you that she WILL think she has purchased a set of stamps designed by Tim Holtz.

------------------
I'm glad that the Peas were so ready to look out for Amy Tan's interests when people started seeing her designs in Michaels under their store brand without Amy Tangerine's name on them. Why wouldn't we want to express concern that "unknown" artists are having their images sold as if they were another artist's work?

Tim IS surely the nicest guy in the world, (and the stampers anonymous packaging design may be not his doing in any way) but I hope we don't only speak up for our scrapping "celebrities".

I think a mistake has been made in the Stampers Anonymous packaging - just fix it so Tim Holtz's true relationship to these designs is clear!





3kidmama
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:49:34 PM
I think Stampers Anonymous should just change their packaging to say "Images Stamp-lifted for/by Tim Holtz".

I'm kidding!

Tashak
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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:56:16 PM
I'm not talking about a class. I'm sure you're right about him benefiting and it's a smart move on the stores part in this economy. I'm talking about a product, like producing some of his old stamp images and releasing them with their name on them.

Let's say Martha Stewart, using her name because she was brought up, now is in business with the company that produces Tim's stamps. She picks some of his old designs and releases them as "Martha Stewart Classic Favorites". Some might think they were her own classic images from back when she did design some of her own items, before she basically became Martha Inc. It wouldn't be fair to have her name only on the package, she didn't design them. Tim should be upset about that, just because it's a good marketing move on the companies part that doesn't make it right.


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birukitty
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 7/14/2012 7:55:07 AM
I just wanted to point out again that we haven't seen the BACK of the package. Who knows what it says?

I'm fairly positive it will say SA classic images re-released, these are Tim Holtz's favorites, or something like that.

Bottom line though is that SA owns the rights to those images and can market and sell them anyway they wish.

Debbie in MD.

Creating
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Posted: 7/14/2012 8:46:50 AM
You know the other night I commented on what a supportive lot everyone is and tonight I see this and wonder why the level of interest. Personally I left a comment on Tim's blog the other night because I thought they were his "old" designs and that stamps that I have loved for years were ones he had designed and I hadn't been aware of that. So even when I go back and reread the blog I can see that they are just some of his favourites and they have been "rebranded" with something that says Tim Holtz favourites, I misread that at the time.

Confusing, maybe; something to find interesting to comment on yes obviously by the posts - the original owner is not sounding to me sour grapes just simply saying maybe the branding could be done differently. Private conversation maybe it should have been, bringing it into a public arena; maybe not the best way but eh we live and learn. What I can't figure out is why this issue has led to personal opinions about Tim and how he is viewed in the industry; some notion of wrongdoing.

If you like his work, the things he creates and supports; buy it; dream about what else you might like - if you don't then don't buy. The choice is simple we can buy some great classic shapes; made by unknown artists who have had their work revisited by a very talented and succesful person and recognised as classic shapes that have lasted the distance of time. Congratulations to each artist that is showcased - you know who you are - and good on you Tim and thanks SA for giving us a chance to top up some great supplies.I would like to see us continue to be supportive of each other, happy to hear our ideas and free to express our opinions - I would hope that we would do each of these kindly, respectfully and try not to be too righteous and opinionated. But eh each to his own - I'm off to look at the stuff that excites me.First stop as is the case many times, Tim's page. Lets all go and enjoy the new CHA releases

3kidmama
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 7/14/2012 12:49:07 PM

I just wanted to point out again that we haven't seen the BACK of the package. Who knows what it says?

I'm fairly positive it will say SA classic images re-released, these are Tim Holtz's favorites, or something like that.


Do you have any of the other Tim Holtz cling stamp sets that have more information? There is NOTHING, ZERO on the back of my TH stamp packages (not even a bar code). Only red cling stamps stuck onto a blank white plastic sheet.

What you see on the face of this product is ALL the information the consumer is going to get!

We tell people all the time on this board to be SURE you give credit for scrap lifting (a another person's layout, their card or even if you worked off someone's sketch). ESPECIALLY if you are submitting a project for "Publication". Don't take credit for work that wasn't 100% yours. If it's for personal albums only, then it's fine, but otherwise give credit.

How is this NOT MUCH worse than that? Even if it was a mistake in package design initially. Now that Stampers Anonymous is aware that people ARE assuming that these stamp Images are designed by Tim Holtz - if that ISN"T the impression they wanted to create, shouldn't they change it?

I Like the Martha Stewart analogy. If this winter, she starts doing TV segments and selling HER products for the "Martha Stewart 12 Tags of Christmas" using Tim Holtz Stamps without crediting him for the images OR the concepts - wouldn't we be perturbed?

In my humble opinion, just because something may be technically LEGAL for Stampers Anonymous to do, doesn't make it the moral thing to do.

I'm finding this discussion interesting.

birukitty
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 7/14/2012 5:20:05 PM
No I don't have any of Tim Holtz's stamp sets so I had no idea what was on the back of those packages. I was speculating that this might be the case with this new release from SA. It is the company SA that is re releasing and marketing these sets of stamps, not Tim Holtz's company, so they may very well be different on the back.

And you are right, just because something is legal it doesn't make it a moral thing to do. However, I personally don't see how this is in any way immoral. SA is the company, they are re releasing some stamp images they own and decided since Tim has been asking for this for years to let him choose the images. That's why his name is at the top.

IF the artists had not signed away full rights, but insisted that their names be shown on the stamps when they sold their designs to SA then yes, that would be completely immoral, not to mention illegal.

Let me provide an illustration. On our own For Sale/Trade forum, there is a Pea (tfarmer60) who has an ad entitled "Items Added Selling Stamp Stash". If you click on that ad you can see all of the stamps. If you look at page 2 the very first stamp is from Stamps Happen, Inc. and is called "A Shining Star". Now look at the very bottom of the stamp-you will see the artist's name with a copyright symbol. This artist signed her contract not will "full rights" but that they can only be sold if her name is shown with a copyright symbol.

All of these decisions and contracts are done when the artist sells the image (if she is working free lance). If she is working for the company and is receiving a salary then it's very common for her work to belong to the company.

Anyway, that's how I see this issue and others may see things very differently. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on everything. What a boring world that would be!

Debbie in MD.

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