From Romney: "95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country."
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 9/21/2012 by Kelpea in NSBR Board
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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:24:17 AM


You can't even compare poverty in the U.S. to that in 3rd world counties.




Easy thing to say if you have never lived in poverty. So many in our great country live in squalor - CHILDREN, even, who have no other choice...

I do believe America offers more than third world countries, that is why I love it. But Romney did not have to start with nothing at birth to build what he has. He started with money, and that makes a whole helluva big difference then starting with Mom & Dad being homeless, because they lost their jobs.

He has no idea, and neither do so many of you. SMH

desertpea
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:31:06 AM
Funny you should bring up jobs.

The least amount of jobs were created under Obama compared to the last ten presidential terms by a HUGE margin, and each of them all had a recession at some point.


tserenity
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:38:20 AM
To Kristen...BS is who you refer to as Obama, which I am sure you knew...as far as I am concerned, BS fits him to a tee as he is so full of it anyhow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

And to whoever is ticked becasue I don't know how to use the quote feature...deal with it...my tablet gives me limited options for typing, and the quote does not work...sorry to ruin your day, lolQ@



Wildcatmom
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:50:05 AM

Anyone who doesn't believe being born in America is a gift - really needs to get out more.


THAT. Exactly that.

Y'all can scream all you want about Romney being out of touch but it doesn't fly.

You know what my husband wanted me to send for the local children the first time he was in Iraq?

Combs, brushes, barrettes, toothbrushes. The kids in the nearby village had none of that. How many kids in America are lacking those things? Not too many.


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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:57:14 AM
Where you start from can make a huge difference - in either direction. You can start from nothing and become great. Or start from privelege and become nothing. And there's a whole spectrum in between.

So what if Romney started off (or Obama, or any other president)with more than I have ever had. BFD. I DON'T CARE!! I'm so sick and tired of this 'out of touch' crap.



SweetiePie Pea
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:59:56 AM
Seriously hasn't there been some Oprah special about how privileged we are just to LIVE here? Isn't that why she did the girls' school in Africa? Seems like everyone was agreeing then!


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KikiNichole

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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:00:38 AM

Combs, brushes, barrettes, toothbrushes. The kids in the nearby village had none of that. How many kids in America are lacking those things? Not too many.




More than you'd think...I've spent many volunteer hours making packages for donations that contain all of those things, along with mittens, underwear, coats, hats, socks...

The opportunity is there only if you have access to it. And so many children do NOT have access and will never encounter anyone in their lives who will show them the way out.

Oh, and I have 'screamed' out nothing...except referring to our President as BS...but the rest is just a disagreement of beliefs and should be respected as such.


~Kristen~

TheBiscuitScraps
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:13:18 AM
Thank you, Tracey for the link about Bain and LTV. Believe me, I have read that one, plus countless others. It was a very convoluted mess from the get go. However, I believe in "doing the right thing" more than I believe in "doing things right".

Romney is a prime example of "doing things right" in business. He has examples in his personal life of "doing the right thing".

Ethics should carry over from our personal life into our business life if we live our faith. He "supposedly" is a faith based person. He says he is, anyway.

A company can set up a plan of action, use their capital to help other companies revive, but when they set up the rules and follow the rules to letter...they make sure they are "doing things right" because they are following their own guidelines...dotting every "i" and crossing every "t". What they often leave out of the equation is "doing the right thing". Bain Capital and Mitt Romney DID NOT do the right thing with LTV pensions.

Not only am I upset about what they did to my Father, but to countless fellow citizens. It is just one example of vulture capitalism. I was also the the recipient of vulture capitalism in my own job. I sat with the CEO of GlaxoSmithKline who told me I would still have a job, but who let HR dot their "i"s and cross their "t"s and get rid of me 3 months before I was vested in insurance for life. It was a major factor in my husband and I losing our home in 2008. GSK did things "right" by following the rules they set up for the takeover (not merger), but they did not "do the right thing", ethically.

I can see the difference and I don't believe Romney's thinking is what is right for this country. I can (ETA) NOT trust him to be ethical. I cannot vote for someone who can't tell the difference.


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Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:18:36 AM

but the rest is just a disagreement of beliefs and should be respected as such.


There is no disagreement of beliefs - there is a disagreement about whether poverty in America is comparable to other countries. NO ONE here is saying there isn't povery in America - and certainly Mitt Romney wasn't suggesting that.

It's not the same - I'm sorry and for the people above who said it's because I've never known poverty - no it's because I've actually been to other countries and seen with my own eyes how they live. We take SO MUCH FOR GRANTED. I donate the mittens and the warm coats- the school supplies etc and know that there are many people in America who do without. But it's not the same.

I'm sorry but the one example of the child with a bottle of mountain dew. Is that child starting out with the best chance in life - no. But when you've actually seen people who have walked upwards of 5 miles standing in line to fill their 5 gallon water jug to walk home with it and know that they do that every single day - and they're the lucky ones as they are actually in walking distance to safe water. You can't compare that to a parent who is too stupid to realize that they shouldn't put soda in their kids bottle. That may sound harsh - but come on it's not the same. They estimate that 2,500 children die EVERYDAY in Africa from lack of clean water.




Me GOP
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:22:00 AM
I hear you Carol.

Sometimes, I think in our "litigious" society, we have shot ourselves in the foot of people in business even being able to differentiate between "rules" and ethics. And sometimes, that line is very, very fine to walk.

I recently finished my master's ethics in business course, and believe me, I personally strive and feel that I am a very ethical and principled person. From feedback I get from friends, family and employees, I guess I express that. But some of the case studies I had to go evaluate and present, were really, really tough because most times, it was a question of just who gets the "ethics."

Most of the case studies were lose/lose situations.

I don't blame you one bit for basing your voting support and decisions on your views and personal experience. I do though, also appreciate the complexity of ethics in business at times.


Tracey

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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:22:20 AM

What a bunch of snobs posting on this thread. Seriously, you should talk to my neighbor who was born in absolute South American squalor. No running water, no sewage system, no electricity, no lots of stuff we have readily available in this country.


Exactly Romney's point! I'd also bet you $5 that your neighbor pulled himself up by the boot straps and worked his butt off to make a better life for himself here. I would also be willing to bet he's not living on the government dole. Just a guess...


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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:27:29 AM

It's not the same - I'm sorry and for the people above who said it's because I've never known poverty


I have and I know it's not the same. I'd much rather be poor here than poor in some other god-forsaken place.



jeanne.b
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:27:55 AM

Yeah, that whole "being born in America is a gift" idea is just freaking OUTRAGEOUS.


I agree that being born in America is a gift. (In fact, it's something I think about when I read Peas on immigration threads going on about how they would *never* break immigration laws no matter what. Easy for them to say. But I digress...)

I think 95% "set up for you" is a little unrealistic, but, hey, let's say that's true for every American. That would make Mitt Romney's life pretty much 99.9999% set up for him from birth. So he can shut up about being a self-made man now, right?

Jeanne

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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:31:07 AM
Thank you, Jeanne. I am blessed to have been born in America. Feel it, think it, believe it every single day of my life.

But that doesn't mean I agree with his statement as a matter of black and white fact.


~Kristen~

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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:31:35 AM

. And to whoever is ticked becasue I don't know how to use the quote feature...deal with it...my tablet gives me limited options for typing, and the quote does not work...sorry to ruin your day, l


Not ticked and my day certainly isn't ruined. Post however you want. You'll just continue to make yourself look incompetent. Your last post also made you look like an ass. But whatever.

You have a nice day.


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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:42:29 AM

Carol, are you just going to ignore what happened with the GM reorganization? The Obama administration changed the rules of a standard bankruptcy reorganization to give prefernces to union employees. People lost their pensions there. Was that ethical?


Actually, I think he did to the right thing. Obama was faced with the worst economic downfall this country has seen since the Great Depression. He looked at the situation, overall. He looked at what would have happened to an entire industry downline of just manufacturing autos. He took a chance that may come out on the bottom side in "stocks". But, are the experts factoring in how many job losses that would have been at a time we were losing more jobs in this country as a whole. Have experts told us what we would have paid out in unemployment. Have the experts factored in what the losses would have been to entire communities had the bailout not happened at the exact time that it happened.

The blow of losing the auto industry could have blown our collective will to move forward had that happened at that time.

I think he had our country in mind when he made the decision.

History can take it apart in the future and will probably see it from a better perspective than each of us as individuals see it today. However, the people that kept their jobs from manufacturing, to tires, to parts, to restaurants, to grocers, to all the shops around all the companies that survived during such an economic downfall think he did the right thing.

ETA: Obama did not make the auto bailout decision that resulted in padding his own pocket, he made to help the workers and all the Americans who kept their jobs down the line and for, at the time, the peace of mind of all Americans.


Carol
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jeanne.b
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:44:48 AM

He had advantages in going to great schools and having a wonderful homelife.


That's right. If *just being born here* is a "silver spoon," then having parents who can send you to Harvard and pay for your first home is a *huge* advantage. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he didn't work hard and earn his own money as well.

Jeanne


JuneC1982
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:45:02 AM

. Not ticked and my day certainly isn't ruined. Post however you want. You'll just continue to make yourself look incompetent. Your last post also made you look like an ass. But whatever.

You have a nice day.


Sheri, you crack me up!

JuneC1982
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:48:21 AM

I see you ARE going to ignore the question of why it was okay to keep union pensions and dump non-union pensions. Have a good day.


Nightowl, are you freaking blind? She responded to you.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 10:57:26 AM
Nightowl - I'm guessing BiscuitScraps has no idea that 20,000 employees lost their pensions during the reorg - or that it's clear the Administration was actively involved in that. It hasn't been well covered in the press. For those interested in the background:

Powerline


TheBiscuitScraps
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:11:38 AM

I see you ARE going to ignore the question of why it was okay to keep union pensions and dump non-union pensions. Have a good day.


I really was not ignoring it, I had to go read about it...still reading. My answer to you on that issue is, "I don't know". I'll still go with a flawed vote for Obama (I would have preferred Hillary, since I campaigned for her), than vote for Romney. That's really the best I can do with the choices I have.


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BuckeyeSandy
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:12:20 AM
Having lived in several other countries, I agree with his statement; it WAS true for most Americans, for most of our history.

There are millions of stories of how someone (male or female), regardless of race or creed did gain "success" as it was once defined.

Most of it is past tense because of some things that are wrong now, and there are no quick or easy solutions to those problems.

The dream is still alive, but hard to find amid the "popular culture" and "celebrity for the sake of celebrity" role models.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:21:11 AM
"The least amount of jobs were created under Obama compared to the last ten presidential terms by a HUGE margin, and each of them all had a recession at some point"

None had a recession quite like this one. If you believe this recession is like the others then it is clear you are ill informed.


Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:25:30 AM

I really was not ignoring it, I had to go read about it...still reading. My answer to you on that issue is, "I don't know". I'll still go with a flawed vote for Obama (I would have preferred Hillary, since I campaigned for her), than vote for Romney. That's really the best I can do with the choices I have.


I really wish more attention was paid to what happens to pensions during bankrupcy. Putting aside all partisanship - tit for tat. It is AWFUL when any worker spends their entire career with a promised pension and then to have that disappear. I think the entire ERISA system needs to be thrown out. The amount of underfunded plans is staggering. I think all negotiated benefits should be fully funded. It isn't right that a worker will give up current pay for the promise of a secured retirement and then when the shit hits the fan and those promises can't be met - they're left high and dry.

Most companies negotiate these plans with the assumption that it will be easy to meet the obligations as the company will continue to grow (or tax revenue in the case of public plans). The reality is when things go bad - they go really bad - and they just can't meet their promises. PBGC tries to soften the blow - but the reality is they have no control of negotiations so can't make everyone whole. As I said, the whole thing should be scrapped.

*Lena*
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:26:26 AM

'm sure it is if your father is a governor, your grandfather a (wealthy) american working in mexico.

my grandfather sold shoes at lazarus for 35 years.

so i'm living my middle class life.


Your grandfather's job has nothing to do with you living a middle class life.

For once I don't see what Romney said as wrong. Being born in America gives you amazing opportunities. No other country in the world compares. The potential is pretty astounding. You can literally move from the poorest slum and into indescribable wealth. No other country will let you do that, or at least not so easily. Problem is that many do not take advantage of these opportunities for whatever reason. Regardless, the opportunity is there for everyone. Why do you think so many people flock to the USA illegally and try to give birth to a child here? Because there mere fact of being born here is something that can make your entire life 1000% better.




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Kelpea
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:27:12 AM

I have no doubt the HuffPo and DailyKo will continue to give you a gift every day of wordsmithing, out of context, word parsing of a speech from four months ago.


Actually the written article was of secondary importance to me after the video, which was far more "compelling."



mtomseth
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:34:26 AM
Context is everything. Just as we know, many republicans are using Obama's "You didn't build that" phrase completely out of context, Mitt's "95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country", is now being taken completely out of context by some democrats.

Mitt made the remark, after observing working and living conditions in China, and I agree with him. Overall, Americans are pretty damn lucky to have had the good fortune of being born here.

I thank the universe frequently for my good fortune of being born on American soil.

Now we can argue that his proposed social and tax policies will make it more difficult for Amercians to maintain a middle class lifestyle or for the working poor to lift themselves out of poverty.

And poverty in America is often invisible. There are many living without electicity, running water, or adequate food.

AmercianPoverty.Org

phdscrap
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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:52:00 AM

I highly doubt anyone part of the 47% who would never vote for him -- especially on this board -- will ever understand Romney talks about American exceptionalism and freedoms that fuel it.

He said his entire campaign, even in the primaries, that he would not promise free stuff just to get your vote.


Your wrong to dismiss people who wont vote for Romney as misunderstanding American exceptionalism. I have never received government assistance (you know beyond going to public schools, attending a state university), have always worked (long before I was of legal age to now when my husband's salary makes it unnecessary). I get American exceptionalism.

I just think it is a false choice the Republican's are offering between socialism and 'free markets'. The choice is actually between a government that is going to spend money helping its people and a government that is going to spend money subsidizing businesses (including large, rich businesses).

The choice is between one side asking American's to pay their fair share in taxes and tough it out as school teachers and fire fighters get laid off, all while giving wealthy Americans and businesses the lowest tax rates they have had in decades (and who STILL aren't creating jobs at the rates they did when taxes were higher)

and the other side asking that as we tough it out in these hard times, the rich and businesses pay THEIR fair share.

The choice is between a belief in trickle down economics

and a belief that lower and middle class spending has actually been the engine of America's economic growth, and that spending can't occur while the government lays people off and cuts programs.

The choice is between a government that uses regulations to decrease the likelihood that banks give bad house loans, that companies gamble with pensions, that insurance carriers take our premiums in good faith and then find technical reasons to cancel our policy/not pay our bills when we get sick

and a government that regulates enough to protect individuals.

With respect, I get American exceptionalism. I just think the Republicans have long lost their way. And I don't think the bar by which we conclude we are great should be the poorest countries in the world.


Jules

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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:56:57 AM
Great post Jules! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.





KikiNichole

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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:57:50 AM
Outstanding post, Jules. Thank you!


~Kristen~

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Posted: 9/21/2012 11:58:11 AM

And I don't think the bar by which we conclude we are great should be the poorest countries in the world.
THANK YOU.


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Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 12:21:47 PM

And I don't think the bar by which we conclude we are great should be the poorest countries in the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THANK YOU.


For what - setting up a straw man argument that is utterly irrelevant to the thread. Talk about taking things out of context that beats all.

But keep patting yourself on the back that you're on the right side- unfortunately the Democrats are as guilty of subsidizing businesses (hello the entire green energy platform is based on subsidizing businesses and it's the Democrats that are pushing the farm bill even beyond what makes fiscal sense)

I guess "fair share" now translates into the top 10% paying 100% of the federal taxes as 70% isn't fair enough. Taxing private enterprise to hire public employees makes no fiscal sense whatsoever. We need public employees; they provide vital functions in many areas - but thinking we can use hiring public employees to solve our unemployment is deficit inducing insanity.

This country is facing a fiscal crisis and if you think the problem is that Republicans are just too mean to help people, you're wrong. It's posts like these that tell me just how out of touch people are with the fiscal realities we're facing. I don't know how many times it's been pointed out that we couldn't pay our deficit if you captured 100% of all the income of the wealthy - but we still hear the same tired fair share argument thrown around and people cheer.


mtomseth
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Posted: 9/21/2012 12:59:04 PM

I don't know how many times it's been pointed out that we couldn't pay our deficit if you captured 100% of all the income of the wealthy - but we still hear the same tired fair share argument thrown around and people cheer


Ad we can't reduce the deficit by spending cuts alone.

To reduce the deficit requires BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:04:56 PM

Ad we can't reduce the deficit by spending cuts alone.

To reduce the deficit requires BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases.


Of course we can. Every dollar of reduced spending would reduce the deficit. If we wanted to make draconian cuts, we could balance the budget next year with spending cuts. Now the reality is most Americans don't want to impose those kind of cuts and prefer to reduce the deficit over time with the hope that growth in the economy will offset some of the pain. But it absolutely CAN be done. My point was mathematically there is no amount of tax hike on the wealthy that will balance the budget - NONE.


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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:07:30 PM

Ad we can't reduce the deficit by spending cuts alone.

To reduce the deficit requires BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases.


ITA! The very idea that only spending cuts will reduce the deficit is naive at best. Let's go back to the tax rates of the Clinton era with reduced spending and then we'll start to see progress.





momofkandn
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:15:17 PM

Ad we can't reduce the deficit by spending cuts alone.

To reduce the deficit requires BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases.


Tax revenue does not have a direct correlation with tax rates. The Federal Government can count on a revenue around 7-9% of GDP no matter what the rates are. Source Since the inception of a federal income tax, this has been the case. Increasing tax rates, specifically the top tax rate, does not necessarily lead to an increase in revenue. GDP has to increase in order for revenue to increase. GDP increases all on its own during good economic times. In bad economic times it goes down. And federal revenue goes with it. Tax increases can't compensate for that.

And I haven't seen any cuts yet either. We replaced trillion dollar wars with a trillion dollar ACA. Where's the cut? Neither democrats or republicans are serious about cuts. Because someone, somewhere has to give something up to achieve those cuts. And no one wants to give up what the government has provided. Realistically, any cut will be painful. But every time a cut is proposed the person and party proposing it is accused of being heartless, selfish, greedy or putting our country in danger. Something's gotta give. I just hope we make it happen before we end up like Greece.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:15:50 PM

The very idea that only spending cuts will reduce the deficit is naive at best.


Naive? Hmmm - you'll have to explain to me how reducing spending won't reduce the deficit. I'm really interested in that math.


twinsmom-fla99
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:24:06 PM

Context is everything. Just as we know, many republicans are using Obama's "You didn't build that" phrase completely out of context, Mitt's "95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country", is now being taken completely out of context by some democrats.

Yes, of course context is everything! But in this case, the context is comparing our poor with the Chinese. The message to our "poor" is "Stop complaining. It could be worse; you could live in China". It just comes off as a "let them eat cake" kind of statement!

Yes, the poorest of the poor in this world do not live in America. Conditions are much worse elsewhere. But that does not change the fact that people in THIS country live in conditions that 99.9% of the women posting on this message board would find deplorable.

Have some of those people made poor choices? No doubt. But others suffer from mental illness or lack the intelligence to do better. I've taught children with IQs barely above the level of "mental retardation", and trust me, they will never be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Unfortunately, many of them are even lacking bootstraps because their parents are often in no position to provide their kids with the means/skills/knowledge to develop a productive life.

And if you think those kinds of circumstances only apply to 5% of our population (since 95% of us have the silver spoon of American birth going for us), then you (general you, not singling out any one poster) are the one who is sheltered and needs to get out more.

Yes, Romney is correct that our poor have it better than much of the rest of the world. But I am disappointed that he doesn't realize that there are still many odds stacked against those people to the point that they have no hope of attaining the American Dream of "success through hard work". Plenty of them have to settle for "poverty through hard work" because believe it or not, many of those who are mired in poverty are not just sitting back waiting for the welfare check.

ChristieMc
PeaNut

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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:24:20 PM

Neither democrats or republicans are serious about cuts. Because someone, somewhere has to give something up to achieve those cuts. And no one wants to give up what the government has provided. Realistically, any cut will be painful. But every time a cut is proposed the person and party proposing it is accused of being heartless, selfish, greedy or putting our country in danger. Something's gotta give. I just hope we make it happen before we end up like Greece.



ITA. I would love to see a candidate that comes out and honestly says "We are in a big mess, and the things that have to be done are going to be painful, but they have to be done."


Christie

BrinaG
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:25:44 PM

Easy thing to say if you have never lived in poverty. So many in our great country live in squalor - CHILDREN, even, who have no other choice...


I did grow up poor in America - food stamps, section 8 housing, name on an angel tree at Christmas, free lunch at school, clothes from the second hand store...

The poverty I grew up with does not compare to the poverty in much of the world. I had food. I got an education. We had heat (although not air conditioning). Most important, I had opportunity.

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:27:34 PM

Naive? Hmmm - you'll have to explain to me how reducing spending won't reduce the deficit. I'm really interested in that math.

er. You yourself are the one who set the bar for this discussion. You weren't talking about reducing the deficit, you were talking about erasing it completely:


I don't know how many times it's been pointed out that we couldn't pay our deficit if you captured 100% of all the income of the wealthy - but we still hear the same tired fair share argument thrown around and people cheer.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know when I talk about raising taxes and reducing spending, I'm thinking in terms of reducing the deficit over time.

Not a straw-man argument about attempting to pay it all off at once by tormenting rich people.

edited.


LUCYG
northern california

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



*maureen*
Bad Wolf

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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:27:54 PM

Ad we can't reduce the deficit by spending cuts alone.

To reduce the deficit requires BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases.


Ronald Reagan understood this, it's too bad that those who have co-opted his party do not.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:27:57 PM

ITA. I would love to see a candidate that comes out and honestly says "We are in a big mess, and the things that have to be done are going to be painful, but they have to be done."



I agree and would say that for Senate and Congressional candidates too! We need to get to a point where people care more about the fiscal stability of the country instead of the goodies their Congresspeople can give them. But we're not there yet. Everyone wants someone else to sacrifice.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:31:08 PM
er. You yourself are the one who set the bar for this discussion. You weren't talking about reducing the deficit, you were talking about erasing it completely:

I might have started the discussion, but other people get to enter it as well I was responding to the next poster who said we can't reduce the deficit with spending cuts. If they misspoke and meant we can't eliminate the deficit with spending cuts - I would say we CAN - but most americans probably don't want us to.


Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:38:20 PM

Ronald Reagan understood this, it's too bad that those who have co-opted his party do not.


But look where it got him? He agreed to a 3 to 1 spending cuts with tax increase. The tax increase happened, but the spending cuts were never found.


On the whole - what Reagan proved is that simplifying the tax code and reducing top income tax rates actually brings in MORE REVENUE. I wholly embrace any measures that will simplify the tax code. Perhaps if we gave Congress fewer weapons in the special interest giveaways they will spend less time trying to convulute the tax code to benefit a small group of people.

momofkandn
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:39:08 PM

I would love to see a candidate that comes out and honestly says "We are in a big mess, and the things that have to be done are going to be painful, but they have to be done."


There is a congressman who said this, Paul Ryan. I can't find a quote at the moment, but the budget he proposed was pretty radical. And it contained huge cuts in painful areas. Now, I will admit it was partisan in cutting social programs over items like the military. But that's where committee and floor debate come into play and theoretically could balance out those cuts. However, debate was shut down because Ryan was vilified for even contemplating cuts to social programs. And we still don't have a budget.

Edgy Coolness
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Posted: 9/21/2012 1:57:24 PM


desertpea
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Posted: 9/21/2012 7:19:29 AM
What a bunch of snobs posting on this thread. Seriously, you should talk to my neighbor who was born in absolute South American squalor. No running water, no sewage system, no electricity, no lots of stuff we have readily available in this country.

You're so elitist and naive that you cannot even fathom how lucky you are for being born in this country.



I never thought I might actually SLIGHTLY agree with something you posted, desertpea but YES, as U.S. Citizen's the majority of people, including the very disadvantaged in the U.S.A., have the advantages of wealth redistribution in capitalism aka TAXATION "for" (and there are many places where these are STILL not available) things like, public police and fire depts, CLEAN running water, sewage systems, electricity, roads, all those things that Obama meant when he said "You didn't build that" when he was talking about small business ownership --and as we know from the speech at the RNC by the Staples owner, Tom Stemberg, he had plenty of help building his company with WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION like tax advantages and fat govt contracts through Mitt Romney and Bain Capital-- have advantages that people in emerging economies dream of.

But I take exception with Mitt Romney's speech that "All of Us" have


"95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country."



Not only was he NOT SPEAKING TO OR ABOUT the "All of Us" he was speaking directly to THOSE JUST LIKE HIM:


In a less-examined portion of the recently revealed remarks Mitt Romney made during a private fundraiser in May, the presidential candidate told donors that "95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country."

Romney told the donors there are people who say to him, "'Oh, you were born with a silver spoon,' you know, 'You never had to earn anything,' and so forth. And, and frankly, I was born with a silver spoon, which is the greatest gift you could have, which is to get born in America. I'll tell ya, there is -- 95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country." ...



And yes, I am very cognizant of the advantages I've had versus some of my friends, family, and neighbors or even my Hong Kong born DH and unlike someone like Romney, either my Mother or I PAID through wealth redistribution aka TAXATION for every advantage I was able to receive as are most of the posters on this message board.

But who in your opinion on this message board besides a very few of us would be one of "those people" he is referring to in his private 50K a plate fundraiser?











desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/21/2012 2:06:57 PM

None had a recession quite like this one. If you believe this recession is like the others then it is clear you are ill informed.


Obama and the Democrats in Congress made it worse just like FDR did prolonging the Great Depression. We are still paying to this very day for that.


Your wrong to dismiss people who wont vote for Romney as misunderstanding American exceptionalism.


That isn't what I posted. I said I don't expect the people who won't vote for Romney as understanding that he was talking about American exceptionalism -- you instead treat it like a gaffe or that he put his foot in his mouth.


I just think it is a false choice the Republican's are offering between socialism and 'free markets'.


It is a real choice between socialism and capitalism. You have a ton of countries on this planet that have communism and socialism, but only one America. We export capitalism. Look at post WWII Europe, which was taken over by brutal socialists that turned into fascism, and communism. Look at how long that took to finally bring to its knees.

More than half of this country outright rejects your ideas, but you did it anyway. You didn't work with Republicans. You just went ahead and passed all these horrible policies because socialism is a pathway to communism. You want to bring everyone down to one level and establish a privileged class to rule them. You want everyone working for the government. I'm sure you believe in "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

This is why people are leaving the Democrat party. You broadcasted to the entire world a few weeks ago. We've seen this before. People came here to escape this disgusting political theory -- not to re-import it all over again. So let me clue you in: your utopian ideals were tried over and over again, and it never materialized. You may want to give up all your freedoms, but the majority of this country do not.

We reject your way of thinking. And you probably should research what capitalism is and what this country owes to it before spewing a regurgitation of your talking points.

momofkandn
PeaAddict

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Posted: 9/21/2012 2:19:30 PM
I wouldn't consider things like roads, sewers, fire depts, police depts as wealth redistribution. Those are services that are the main purpose of government.

Wealth redistribution, to me, is when the government takes a dollar from me to hand out to the guy down the street. Not in a dollar's worth of service, but in a hand out.

AthenainCA
Right Pea on the Left Coast

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Posted: 9/21/2012 2:26:50 PM

ITA. I would love to see a candidate that comes out and honestly says "We are in a big mess, and the things that have to be done are going to be painful, but they have to be done.


His name is Paul Ryan - the current Republican vice presidential candidate.

He's been vilified as a mean, heartless bastard who wants old people and children to starve.


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