Do any of the Republicans feel Romney has moved to the center?

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Posted 10/5/2012 by PunchPrincess in NSBR Board
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PEArfect
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Posted: 10/5/2012 8:48:42 PM

I never thought Romney was a far right candidate. I think if he moved to center during the debate, he was just going back to where he was before he had to shift right to please the uber-conservative side of the party and get the nomination. I think the shift bodes well for bi-partisan cooperation, which we desperately need.


I agree.


Jen


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Posted: 10/5/2012 8:57:56 PM

I don't think Romney moved at all - if you've actually read his policy positions and heard him speak directly he's never been an extreme right politician. I think what he did at the debate was contrast his actual positions with the demonization that his been going on in the attack ads and word parsing over the last few months.

Take the $5 trillion tax cut for example - Obama and his PACs have been screaming about it for months - but all along on his website and in his speeches he's said he wants to lower RATES and work with congress to close loopholes to be REVENUE neutral. I noticed that despite that - yet again on my facebook I see Obama trying to say Romney is raising taxes on the middle class to pay for a $5 trillion tax cut for billionaires - it's frankly bullshit - he already earned 3 pinnoccios from the Washington Post and was called mostly untrue by Politifact - but Obama figures if he keeps saying it - people will believe him.


This is the same Mitt Romney I've heard for what, 5 years.


"This is what I think Romney means....." has been repeated on these threads all summer. More than once I've said, "but this is what he's actually said."

During the debate, I expected the president to give the answers that he did. I expected Romney to give the answers that he did. Maybe my understanding isn't so wildly off the mark.






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Posted: 10/5/2012 9:15:18 PM


That is probably true, but by the same token, if he now tries to move back more towards the center what happens to the actual votes of those ubers that he had to bend to to be nominated? Alienating that base, which no Republican can afford to do now, by trying to lure in the independents, will not win, and only reinforces the view that he flip flops so much it is a crapshoot as to what he really thinks and intends to do. Other than screwing the middle class of course.




Romneycare firmly put Romney to the left of the Republican party.

Romney is a deeply religious man, which puts him to the right of the Republican party.

Such is life. People are complex.


He's the candidate for the Republican party, but he's just a man. What he wants to accomplish as president resounds with people within the party.





ETA - "Other than screwing the middle class of course." - There's no "of course" about that, IMO. I don't believe it.







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peainmominca
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Posted: 10/5/2012 9:37:17 PM
Romney hasn't moved, he is who he is. That's why tea partiers weren't too enthused to have him as the nominee.

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Posted: 10/5/2012 9:46:32 PM

I think the liberal media has portrayed him as a rich guy who doesn't care about his Country. A lot of people closed their minds to him as a candidate early in the process.


The liberal media doesn't have to tell me anything about Mitt. His own words do just fine for why I would never consider voting for him. When his own party tried desperately to not let him win the nomination during the Republican primaries, I thought their might be hope for him. He reminds me of a snake oil salesman.


Susan



PunchPrincess

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Posted: 10/5/2012 9:51:54 PM

but all along on his website and in his speeches he's said he wants to lower RATES and work with congress to close loopholes to be REVENUE neutral. I noticed that despite that - yet again on my facebook I see Obama trying to say Romney is raising taxes on the middle class to pay for a $5 trillion tax cut for billionaires


Lefty, the President addressed this during the debate. He said that there won't be enough new money from eliminating loopholes just from the rich to make up for an across the board 20% tax rate cut. To make it revenue neutral he would have to eliminate loopholes from those making 200k and less. We don't know just what loopholes he plans to eliminate but those in those income brackets use the standard deduction. Are you ready to shave the standard deduction? And what about the mortgage deduction? Or the charitable deduction?

Shouldn't a man asking us for his vote tell us now what loopholes he wants to eliminate? He might suggest the Simpson-Bowles plan but his own vice presidential running mate voted against Simpson-Bowles. Can he reverse course now?



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Skybar
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Posted: 10/5/2012 10:00:33 PM

I was frankly surprised that Romney moved to the center during the debate.

I've listened to him and pr all along. He didn't move anywhere different from where he's been.


you read multiple sources and they all say something different

especially on excuses for BOs bad debate. Anyone wanna make him a scrapbook - print and clip out all of the many, many different excuses put out by his campaign people, others who work with him, his media people, other supporters etc.
decorate 'em up with some cut outs, pretty paper and some journaling and he'll love it!


I guess it's hard for liberals to understand, but most conservatives never thought Romney was far right,

right


What I think is that most conservatives think that if you move slightly left of center, you're a freaking socialist.

no. BO is not slightly left of center tho. he's rolling down the farthest point on the left.


You fully expect the campaign to keep lying to the American people? What a bizarre philosophy - it was fun watching CNN nail Stephanie Cutter today when she tried to yet again trot out the $5 trillion lie - she was actually forced to admit that it ISN'T a $5 trillion tax hike. But of course the campaign will keep the line in Obama's speech because the crowds will cheer instead of asking the obvious question of why he keeps lying to them.

Why would they change? It's what they do.

that part with Cutter was something - all the while he was out there still yelling out about the $5 T. but hey, the left doesn't seem to have a problem lying.





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Posted: 10/5/2012 11:29:30 PM

Lefty, the President addressed this during the debate. He said that there won't be enough new money from eliminating loopholes just from the rich to make up for an across the board 20% tax rate cut. To make it revenue neutral he would have to eliminate loopholes from those making 200k and less. We don't know just what loopholes he plans to eliminate but those in those income brackets use the standard deduction. Are you ready to shave the standard deduction? And what about the mortgage deduction? Or the charitable deduction?



The President did not address the idea that more Americans could be in the workforce, though.

More Americans working, more Americans paying taxes.

What you stated assumes a static level of total income across the board.

Romney's idea is based on the realization that when more people are paying into the federal tax base, revenue rises.

Obama doesn't add that into the equation. Ever.


Cut the tax rate and cut back deductions isn't a ridiculous idea. Cutting all deductions across the board from the get go, considering our ridiculous tax code, just is implausible. Shaving the standard deduction, meaning reducing it? - with an across-the-board reduction in tax rate - something worth talking about.


Note, that's standard deduction. That's not itemized deductions. I'm guessing that itemizing will still have some legitimacy since they are specific costs against profit and that's a business-type understanding that Romney would probably embrace.


Romney and taxes do not scare me in the least. I think the fear of this has been highly overblown.

When Ronald Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter, I listened to these kinds of fears. I was positive Reagan would start WWIII. Then Reagan took office, and I realized just how naive I had been to fall for the lies.

I rate this campaign against Romney in the same category of misrepresenting what Romney would do.



ETA -

Shouldn't a man asking us for his vote tell us now what loopholes he wants to eliminate?


At this point in time, I think this demand is putting the cart before the horse. It's going to be a process of negotiations and rethinking everything.

I am not a millionaire/billionaire. I don't have all the deductions and loopholes they have, and I won't be one as greatly affected by these changes.

In all earnestness, I think the fear of this is far overblown and much much worse than what the reality could be.






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AthenainCA
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Posted: 10/5/2012 11:38:46 PM

Lefty, the President addressed this during the debate.

Oh, well then, it's settled!




PunchPrincess

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Posted: 10/6/2012 8:54:18 AM
Gosh, you folks on the west coast stay up late! With a three hour time difference even. I'll try to pick up the thread of the conversation, which I'm happy to say has stayed civil -- except for the trolls. I have a new one to ignore I see.


Romney's idea is based on the realization that when more people are paying into the federal tax base, revenue rises.



How long are you willing to wait for this result? Starting with the 47% that Romney mentioned in his "blockbuster video" you only have the elderly, disabled, college students who are working part time, and others who don't make enough to pay taxes. That's where you are looking to increase taxes? That leaves you with the 7.8% unemployed. How much income tax will they pay? Enough to offset the 500 billion lost by cutting the tax rates 20%. I don't think so.

John McCain wanted to make employer provided health insurance taxable, I guess you could do that although it would make a lot of tax paying citizens mad. But just how long are you willing to wait to see IF the wealthy will turn their extra income into new jobs? Two years, three years, or more. Meanwhile the previously non tax payers are paying taxes which means they have less income to buy the consumer items which tax payers are producing. Granted those items are generally produced in China, Vietnam, etc., but once they hit our ports they employ thousands and thousands of Americans to transport the goods to the local stores.

This is probably another whole thread, but has anyone been on the interstates in the last six months -- I can usually tell how well the economy is doing by the number and proportion of 18 wheelers on the road. There were more 18 wheelers than passenger cars on the road. Astounding. Away from the big cities where the commuters enter and leave the roads, the number 18 wheelers had gone way up. And the rest stops, especially toward night when they pull off to rest, were packed!! That's my personal indicator of a healthy economy.


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Posted: 10/6/2012 9:14:10 AM


Like I said, it doesn't matter my state will go Obama, this election is for me to voice my concern over the path of the republican party.


So you won't bother to watch the Republican party's nominee in his own words?

I find that so odd.


I find it odd that you think watching the nominee is the only way to understand his position. There are other forms of communication.

AthenainCA
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Posted: 10/6/2012 9:36:13 AM
No, I don't think that at all. But especially given the buzz about the debate, it's an additional piece of information. One you actually haven't seen.

Hey, to each their own.



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Posted: 10/6/2012 9:51:10 AM
Again, I don't have to have seen it to know what was said, the full transcript is available on line. I don't need to be spoon fed information, I'm capable of seeking it out on my own.

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Posted: 10/6/2012 9:51:33 AM
The accusations of flip-flopping on either side of the aisle always puzzle me b/c you don't really understand how politics work. If someone wants to snag the nomination, they have to modify their views. If they really are farther left or right, they have to become more moderate in order to win a primary and consequently the national election. Otherwise they will not appeal to enough of a majority to win.

Even if Romney was farther right or Obama was farther left (and if you read up on his views on Constitutional law and 2nd amendment rights, you'd be quite surprised on how moderate approaching right he really is on some positions), in order to be politically successful, they could not run on a platform espousing those views and their advisors would have told them as much right from the start.

Romney has to pander to the Religious Right, even if he doesn't believe in their platforms, b/c they have co-opted the GOP and without their support he cannot win. So we have to go into this knowing that. Like Maureen seems to be doing with her vote. For that reason alone, even if I liked him and agreed with some of his policies, I could not in good conscience cross party lines to vote for him.

The accusations that someone only gets their info from Daily Kos or Jon Stewart only makes YOU feel better and attempts at insults. If someone has to prop themselves up by knocking other people down, have at it. But it's a reflection on you and it's a tactic that's getting old. Surely you can't believe that the only homes that had the debate on were conservative, can you?


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




AthenainCA
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Posted: 10/6/2012 10:28:34 AM

Romney has to pander to the Religious Right, even if he doesn't believe in their platforms


I'm curious, what exactly has he done to pander to the "Religious Right"?

The only thing I can think of, I guess, is his change of mind about abortion. He is pro-life with the exceptions of rape, incest, and life of mother. It's not even a completely pro-life position. Given that half the country considers themselves pro-life, I guess I don't see how this is out of step.

If it's that he changed his mind, I thought we thought people "evolving" in their positions was a good thing? I guess that's only if they adopt certain positions.





Wildcatmom
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Posted: 10/6/2012 10:42:51 AM

Romney hasn't moved, he is who he is. That's why tea partiers weren't too enthused to have him as the nominee.


That's it exactly. I'm the 'religious right tea-partier' (which means I am a Christian who believes in not spending more money than one person or country can possibly make) and while Romney has never been my candidate of choice, he's completely better than the tax-em-till-they-bleed crew currently running things.


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AthenainCA
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Posted: 10/6/2012 11:01:42 AM

You don't want to know what your candidate would like to do to the tax code before you vote for him?

When exactly does the President alone write the tax code? He may have guiding ideas - lower tax rates across the board and eliminating deductions is one of those to be sure - but the actual details get worked out with Congress. They always do. How can the President promise that X will exactly happen, when X depends on negotiations and the votes of 535 other people (and their political affiliation)?

Mitt Romney addressed this in the debate.



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Posted: 10/6/2012 11:06:15 AM

When exactly does the President alone write the tax code? He may have guiding ideas - lower tax rates across the board and eliminating deductions is one of those to be sure - but the actual details get worked out with Congress. They always do. How can the President promise that X will exactly happen, when X depends on negotiations and the votes of 535 other people (and their political affiliation)?



I'm glad to see you finally realize this Athena and I expect to see you dial back on all the criticism of Obama, especially on the accusations that he failed to work with Congress.


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mzza111
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Posted: 10/6/2012 11:19:42 AM

The President did not address the idea that more Americans could be in the workforce, though.

More Americans working, more Americans paying taxes.

What you stated assumes a static level of total income across the board.

Romney's idea is based on the realization that when more people are paying into the federal tax base, revenue rises.

Obama doesn't add that into the equation. Ever.


Cut the tax rate and cut back deductions isn't a ridiculous idea. Cutting all deductions across the board from the get go, considering our ridiculous tax code, just is implausible. Shaving the standard deduction, meaning reducing it? - with an across-the-board reduction in tax rate - something worth talking about.


Note, that's standard deduction. That's not itemized deductions. I'm guessing that itemizing will still have some legitimacy since they are specific costs against profit and that's a business-type understanding that Romney would probably embrace.


Romney and taxes do not scare me in the least. I think the fear of this has been highly overblown.

When Ronald Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter, I listened to these kinds of fears. I was positive Reagan would start WWIII. Then Reagan took office, and I realized just how naive I had been to fall for the lies.

I rate this campaign against Romney in the same category of misrepresenting what Romney would do.


Yeah, that's a concrete plan!

When more people aren't working and there's not enough money coming in then what???? You've NEVER heard Romney explain that one. But I guess he is the Republican "savior" and those magical underwear will make it all better! Sound familiar....yeah it is, just on the other side.





AthenainCA
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Posted: 10/6/2012 11:55:07 AM

I don't have to have seen it to know what was said, the full transcript is available on line. I don't need to be spoon fed information, I'm capable of seeking it out on my own.

Watching a debate is being spoon-fed information?

Alrighty then.



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Posted: 10/6/2012 12:23:56 PM

Really? REALLY? You don't want to know what your candidate would like to do to the tax code before you vote for him?


Really, you didn't want to know what was in Obamacare before it was passed? That's brilliant.


PunchPrincess

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Posted: 10/6/2012 2:44:19 PM

Really, you didn't want to know what was in Obamacare before it was passed? That's brilliant.



Oh, come on, Suffy. We knew what Obama wanted because he talked about it before the election. He didn't get everything he wanted because pompass asses like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson clenched their tiny fists and said, 'no, no, a million times no.' But we knew what Obama wanted to do. We knew what was in his heart.

We don't even know if Romney has a heart.


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Posted: 10/6/2012 3:06:13 PM

The accusations of flip-flopping on either side of the aisle always puzzle me b/c you don't really understand how politics work. If someone wants to snag the nomination, they have to modify their views. If they really are farther left or right, they have to become more moderate in order to win a primary and consequently the national election. Otherwise they will not appeal to enough of a majority to win.

Even if Romney was farther right or Obama was farther left (and if you read up on his views on Constitutional law and 2nd amendment rights, you'd be quite surprised on how moderate approaching right he really is on some positions), in order to be politically successful, they could not run on a platform espousing those views and their advisors would have told them as much right from the start.

Romney has to pander to the Religious Right, even if he doesn't believe in their platforms, b/c they have co-opted the GOP and without their support he cannot win. So we have to go into this knowing that. Like Maureen seems to be doing with her vote. For that reason alone, even if I liked him and agreed with some of his policies, I could not in good conscience cross party lines to vote for him.

The accusations that someone only gets their info from Daily Kos or Jon Stewart only makes YOU feel better and attempts at insults. If someone has to prop themselves up by knocking other people down, have at it. But it's a reflection on you and it's a tactic that's getting old. Surely you can't believe that the only homes that had the debate on were conservative, can you?


Well said, Batya.

I also want to just add that to an extent, labels like left and right are subjective, in the sense that it depnds on your own perspective. While the conservatives on here, for example, consider me far right, there are many who consider me a centrist, by Canadian standards. Heck, I was part of an advocacy group where I was once called a right wing apologist. And compared to the perspective of the people who threw that label out, it was a legit thing to say.


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Posted: 10/6/2012 3:33:55 PM

How long are you willing to wait for this result? Starting with the 47% that Romney mentioned in his "blockbuster video" you only have the elderly, disabled, college students who are working part time, and others who don't make enough to pay taxes. That's where you are looking to increase taxes? That leaves you with the 7.8% unemployed. How much income tax will they pay? Enough to offset the 500 billion lost by cutting the tax rates 20%. I don't think so.



You are completely missing the idea, PP.

Employment opportunities have been severly limited for years now. Personal wages have floundered. More people are less gainfully employed.

There can be no true economic presentation of future taxes without assuming this will either change or remain a pattern.

Romney plans for this to change, for improvement in an individual's opportunity to earn good income. Obama's plan doesn't include any improvement in income or more people being gainfully employed.

That's a fundamental difference in perspective.



5 people sit down each week to eat 1 pie from the bakery. Obama talks about how the pie should be divided each week. Romney talks about making more than 1 pie available each week, and challenges the idea that the same 5 people must continue to eat from the same pie all of the time.

Obama says that if one person's portion is cut more, another can receive more. Take more taxes from the rich and give them to the poor.

Romney says that if you make more pies, each person can receive more. There will be enough pie that everyone can share some. More people will have enough income that they can afford to pay into the tax base without detriment to themselves.



You and I, PP, are polar opposites on these issues. It's completely understandable that our perspectives are so entirely different. Keeping both in mind, there are workable solutions.

I am a born optimist. It's my nature. I see more pies in the future for all of us. You think about how those pies will be divided. That's a good combination.

There has been no combination of ideas for the past 4 years. It's been one way and one way only. That's not healthy for our country. More pie is good for our country!





At this point in time, I think this demand is putting the cart before the horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really? REALLY? You don't want to know what your candidate would like to do to the tax code before you vote for him?


Do I want to know the exact lines of tax code Romney wants to change? I've been living under Obama's complete change of the health care and related insurance industries without even Congress knowing what monumental changes were being made into law. A flatter, less clumsy tax code doesn't exactly scare me right now.





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Posted: 10/6/2012 4:04:30 PM

When more people aren't working and there's not enough money coming in then what???? You've NEVER heard Romney explain that one. But I guess he is the Republican "savior" and those magical underwear will make it all better! Sound familiar....yeah it is, just on the other side.



Nope. Never heard Romney explain that.

I don't want to hear it from anyone. I want a forward philosophy through an employment slump.

Let's get things moving! That, I hear, That's what I think is possible. That's what I want.

Simple as that.


Don't play that saviour card with me. I just said that he's only a man, although I don't know if it was on this thread or the other one current at the moment.




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Posted: 10/6/2012 4:11:53 PM

Really, you didn't want to know what was in Obamacare before it was passed? That's brilliant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Oh, come on, Suffy. We knew what Obama wanted because he talked about it before the election. He didn't get everything he wanted because pompass asses like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson clenched their tiny fists and said, 'no, no, a million times no.' But we knew what Obama wanted to do. We knew what was in his heart.

We don't even know if Romney has a heart.


Yeah. This kind of concreteness is why my attention isn't really in these questions.

I do apologize, but I just don't take that "concrete plan" talk all that seriously.





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PunchPrincess

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Posted: 10/6/2012 4:14:16 PM


Employment opportunities have been severly limited for years now. Personal wages have floundered. More people are less gainfully employed.


Personal wages have floundered. Hell, yes. And why do you suppose that happened? You don't suppose it's because of the efforts of WalMart, Honda and bunches of others to prevent workers from unionizing? First unionized jobs were moved to right to work states, then overseas, and many workers who would qualify as non-managerial workers were fired when they expressed interest in forming a union.

Do you really think that a man like Mitt Romney is going to encourage his fellow zillionaires to increase the pay of their workers? Pardon me while I indulge in a belly laugh.



<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.

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Posted: 10/6/2012 4:23:23 PM

Do you really think that a man like Mitt Romney is going to encourage his fellow zillionaires to increase the pay of their workers?


No. I don't.

I want the next Sam Walton to come along with the next Walmart.

I want the building of new companies from the ground up. That's where opportunity lies right now.


ETA - I'd be thrilled to see a new energy company that has a fuel based on degraded garbage have a place.





If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



AthenainCA
Right Pea on the Left Coast

PeaNut 230,510
November 2005
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Posted: 10/6/2012 5:45:34 PM

But I guess he is the Republican "savior" and those magical underwear will make it all better!

Ah, Mormon insults.

Very nice. And compelling.




rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
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Posted: 10/6/2012 6:23:07 PM

I want the building of new companies from the ground up. That's where opportunity lies right now.

That would be nice but who is going to do that now? If you're successful then BO will take your money and give it away to those who haven't worked for it. What is the point?



blondiek237
PeaFixture

PeaNut 70,239
February 2003
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Posted: 10/6/2012 6:30:18 PM
Leftturn I work for a company that has design a machine just like that its called the GEM (green Energy machine) it takes trash and converts it into pellets that convert to energy it is in field trials right now. But here's the kicker--due to EPA regs it may never get off the ground, we have had to hire a lobbiest to get through the regulatory mess. I bet if we didn't need that lobbiest we could hire a couple additional employees.

rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
April 2007
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Posted: 10/6/2012 8:58:44 PM

Do you really think that a man like Mitt Romney is going to encourage his fellow zillionaires to increase the pay of their workers?

If they don't pay the employees more then we should just extort the money forcefully from them? How about you send me half of your paycheck? Or shall I extort the money from you forcefully? You'd really have no problem with that? Why should anyone else get to decide how much of your own money you get to keep?



leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.

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Posted: 10/6/2012 10:25:32 PM

That would be nice but who is going to do that now? If you're successful then BO will take your money and give it away to those who haven't worked for it. What is the point?


Which is why I'm not voting for him.






Leftturn I work for a company that has design a machine just like that its called the GEM (green Energy machine) it takes trash and converts it into pellets that convert to energy it is in field trials right now. But here's the kicker--due to EPA regs it may never get off the ground, we have had to hire a lobbiest to get through the regulatory mess. I bet if we didn't need that lobbiest we could hire a couple additional employees.


That sounds very interesting! It's just a matter of time before something cracks that oil stranglehold and the world will change seemingly overnight when it does.

Obama won't do it. He had a good idea to invest in green energy, but he bungled it so badly, we're worse off now then we were before. Who's looking out for companies like yours?

I truly believe that under a different president, and I believe Romney has the ability to pull it together if elected, newer technologies like your company's will get a chance.

My position hurts these huge mega oil corporations. They're as bad as the Mafia, so it won't be an easy fight. I believe Romney has a better chance than Obama of making inroads that allow these new ideas to develop.










If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
April 2007
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Posted: 10/7/2012 12:25:44 AM

Which is why I'm not voting for him.

Me either. He punishes those who work hard and are successful by taking their money away and rewards the lazy by giving the money to them for doing nothing at all. It's so wrong.



PunchPrincess

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Posted: 10/7/2012 8:51:06 AM


I want the next Sam Walton to come along with the next Walmart.


I want the building of new companies from the ground up. That's where opportunity lies right now.



Do you seriously mean to say that the Walton family is your idea of how to move the 47% into the middle class? The Walton family is the poster child for how to create poverty level jobs for the workers and billionaires for the few at the top. You might scoff but what other company instructs their workers on how to apply for Medicaid instead of enrolling them in a company provided health care plan.

The numbers just don't add up. You don't narrow the gap between the wealthy and the impoverished by opening more Mom and Pop stores. You do it by starting new mega industries and encouraging workers to unionize. Without a union the workers can't balance the power the owners have to fire them on a whim.



<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
April 2007
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Posted: 10/7/2012 9:14:24 AM

You don't narrow the gap between the wealthy and the impoverished by opening more Mom and Pop stores.

There is nothing wrong with Mom and Pop stores. This country started with small stores like that. And I think you are mistaken in the goal here. It isn't to narrow a gap, or make sure that everybody has the same. That is simply not possible. Some will always have more and some will always have less. It is a fact of life. If you want more you have to work for it, not strongarm others to give it to you. If what you are doing isn't making enough money then do something else. Use your ingenuity, like our forefathers did.



lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
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Posted: 10/7/2012 9:25:14 AM

I want the next Sam Walton to come along with the next Walmart.


Walmart is well known for moving in to an area and putting tons of small businesses out of business. They open up a store, underprice local stores on items and then when the local store is forced to close, Walmart raises the prices.


I want the building of new companies from the ground up. That's where opportunity lies right now.
The key to more jobs here in the US is to take away incentives to have companies overseas and give incentives to have them here. When companies move back, so will the jobs. That will lead to more products sold, more products needed to be manufactured and more tax dollars to help pay off the deficit.




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mzza111
PeaAddict

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December 2002
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Posted: 10/7/2012 9:43:02 AM

You don't see any of the conservatives on this forum making up nasty names and calling people who have different views "brainless".


Have you not read anything desertpea and lynlam posts?



mzza111
PeaAddict

PeaNut 57,891
December 2002
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Posted: 10/7/2012 10:01:02 AM

Yes I do read their posts and I have noticed they might tear down the President's policies, but I've never encountered them creating mean and nasty names for democratic peas.


You should probably read again, they've done their fair share of mean and nasty name calling.

rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
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Posted: 10/7/2012 10:13:01 AM

The key to more jobs here in the US is to take away incentives to have companies overseas and give incentives to have them here. When companies move back, so will the jobs. That will lead to more products sold, more products needed to be manufactured and more tax dollars to help pay off the deficit.

Companies can run their businesses how they see fit, that is called being FREE. If they want to hire people overseas, they can! So can you. So can anyone. If you don't like that then do something else, or start your own business. The goal here is not to force big companies to do what you want. Your goal is to make a living for your family. If what you are doing isn't working then do something else. I don't see why people are so into forcing big companies to do something they don't want to do. You can have your own company and run it the way you think it should be. It's a win!



AthenainCA
Right Pea on the Left Coast

PeaNut 230,510
November 2005
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Posted: 10/7/2012 10:16:06 AM

I'm glad to see you finally realize this Athena and I expect to see you dial back on all the criticism of Obama, especially on the accusations that he failed to work with Congress.

You expect?

Good luck with that one.

Obama absolutely failed to work with the Republicans in Congress because he is an ideologue first and then President. He was happy as a clam when he had a super majority and had both Houses under Democratic control. The refrain was, as I recall, "I won."

There's a huge difference between the two men in this regard. Where in Obama's background either as a community organizer, State Senator, U.S. Senator, or as President is his background and experience in working with people with whom he disagrees? Mitt Romney, like him or not, has that experience, especially as the Republican Governor of a one of the bluest states in the Union. Obama may have some things going for him, but leadership experience, with the exception of learning on the job these past 3.75 years and and doing a stunningly bad job of it, is not one of them.

Yes, the President has to work with the Democrats and Republicans in the House and the Senate. Some Presidents are good at that kind of leadership; some, like the current one, are really bad at it.

I expect a President Romney, given his previous experience, would be good at it, which means some things would happen that I wouldn't like.






PunchPrincess

PeaNut 17,063
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Posted: 10/7/2012 10:51:59 AM
First of all I should have called out the new troll for making up nasty names. Consider it done. She's blocked.


PP, Romney already addressed the President on this during the debate. He reminded Obama that by creating more jobs and reducing the number of unemployed and families on food stamps, there will be more Americans making more taxable income. When more Americans are working, the government brings in more in taxes.


Serious question, Mrs T. How long are you willing to wait for his policies to produce results if he is elected President. You know you will be one of the ones targeted if he cuts back on deductions in order to raise taxes. I imagine you deduct your mortgage interest on the new house. Do you get a tax credit/deduction for your child care expenses? And what if the tax code is changed to make your employer health care premium taxable income to you? I see these all as happening within six months of the beginning of a Romney presidency. They can do it in the Senate by reconciliation -- only need 50 votes. And if they hold the House it's a done deal. Six months, tops.

There are lots of Peas here who could end up paying more taxes. How long would it take for Romney's plan to produce results in terms of increased employment? Remember the years 2001-2007? GWB had the house and senate on his side. He cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 and we had a huge housing bubble. That's what wealthy people do with extra change -- they buy another house, or another, or another. They don't invest in manufacturing, do they.



<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
April 2007
Posts: 8,364
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:12:57 AM

That's what wealthy people do with extra change -- they buy another house, or another, or another. They don't invest in manufacturing, do they.

It's typical to reinvest in their business and I'd wager that most do that, and if they have enough money for another house - what's it to you? It's not your money. It's theirs. The wealthy can enjoy their money, it's not a crime.



Krazyscrapper
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 131,612
February 2004
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:25:29 AM
"Companies can run their businesses how they see fit, that is called being FREE. If they want to hire people overseas, they can! So can you. So can anyone. If you don't like that then do something else, or start your own business. The goal here is not to force big companies to do what you want."

You're absolutely correct. However the US government shouldn't help them move operations/jobs outside this country with the moving tax credit or any other loopholes that would aid in a company moving operatons out of the country.

And if we choose to give tax credits to corporations who keep jobs here that is fine as well.


rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:36:01 AM

the US government shouldn't help them move operations/jobs outside this country with the moving tax credit or any other loopholes that would aid in a company moving operatons out of the country.

Why not?



Krazyscrapper
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 131,612
February 2004
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:39:07 AM
"Why not?"



Why should we?

PunchPrincess

PeaNut 17,063
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:52:42 AM

if they have enough money for another house - what's it to you? It's not your money. It's theirs. The wealthy can enjoy their money, it's not a crime.


I don't have a problem with the wealthy buying umpteen houses as long as they don't ask me to build the road to their remote site, or to string the electric wires, or to come and put out the fire that is almost a given when they build in fragile land. I think we all know that they won't build their own roads, airports, fire stations, etc. And what about government flood insurance? It's my money that makes it possible for them to enjoy their wealth and I don't remember being asked to give it to them.


<*********************************************************************>

PunchPrincess ( def. A long, long time ago when I first started scrapping I discovered punches -- round, square, squiggles, cars, etc. You name it. Like coat hangers they multiplied, under the bed I think until they were threatening to take over that precious space that we all covet and refuse to cede to other family members. Thus I became PunchPrincess. )


rainbow_scrapper
I'm in NO SHAPE to exercise patience.

PeaNut 308,697
April 2007
Posts: 8,364
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Loc: where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet

Posted: 10/7/2012 11:53:20 AM
You made the assertion that the government shouldn't help them. Are you not going to support your assertion? If you don't then it means nothing.



Krazyscrapper
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 131,612
February 2004
Posts: 2,912
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Loc: Sonoma County

Posted: 10/7/2012 12:01:19 PM
"You made the assertion that the government shouldn't help them. Are you not going to support your assertion? If you don't then it means nothing."


You have a closed mine so I'm not going to take the time to point out the obvious. Also I noticed you didn't answer my question on why the US should help corporations move jobs off shore.

Stalemate.

myboysnme
Living life on the left

PeaNut 69,081
February 2003
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Posted: 10/7/2012 12:24:43 PM

I'M FAR LEFT and trust me, this President is anything but far left. You may want to go talk with some of your very liberal friends and see what they think. What I think is that most conservatives think that if you move slightly left of center, you're a freaking socialist. So not the case.


This is me. BO is not left enough for me. He's in the center for many liberals in my circle.


My choice is to not take it personally - people have opinions. Particularly people here.-Peabay 12/29/11
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