The Jews!!/ My preacher is a fool: update in Op
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 11/20/2012 by smilesnpeacesigns in NSBR Board
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scrappower
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Posted: 11/20/2012 9:47:54 PM

Jews shouldn't worry about Christians. We should worry about secularism, atheism, freaky New Age religions seeking out Jews for members, etc. -- those are the greatest threats to Jewry.


Oh please. As a member of a "freaky new age religion" trust me we don't seek out anyone. The path is for that person to discover on their own. We do not proselytize nor care what others believe.



mamashosh
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Posted: 11/20/2012 9:57:18 PM


I later flew into California where there was a young Jewish man handing out pamphlets telling me I was going to burn if I didn't convert to Judaism.


I have never, ever, ever seen a Jew trying to convert non-Jews to Judaism. That's just not something we do. There is a sect of Judaism (Lubavitcher) that tries to get other Jews to join them , but not non Jews. I have seen Jews for Jesus (who are no longer Jewish) trying to convert people. I guess it is possible that you saw someone with his own brand of cray cray calling himself Jewish, but we just don't talk about burning and we don't try to convert people. Not done.



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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:05:48 PM
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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:14:34 PM
It is the evangelical part of Christianity that offends all other religions. If they could just be happy being Christians, without trying to convert the rest of the world, there would not be the backlash that they proclaim is a pushback against their religion.

Don't come to my door, trying to convert me, I won't rail against you.


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desertpea
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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:21:18 PM



Jews need to worry about recruitment by secularists and atheists? You sound like Bill O'Reilly. Why do I have to worry about them? They just want to be accepted and not marginalized. Do you realize that most Americans would rather vote in criminals than atheists? And you think we have to worry about atheists? They just want to be left alone FFS.


Batya, you really need to stop skimming and hitting the hypersensitive button, and actually read what I wrote.

SecularISM and atheISM is something we need to keep out of Jewry. We don't want Jews to turn away from Judaism and our spiritual connection to Israel. We don't want Jews to become secular or atheist. We don't care about the ways of anyone else. Anyone else can go worship a tree for all I care.

Where you got that rant from, I have no idea.

desertpea
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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:31:20 PM

I later flew into California where there was a young Jewish man handing out pamphlets telling me I was going to burn if I didn't convert to Judaism.


My BS meter just went past 10 and into 12.

Jews don't recruit, and we certainly don't believe people will burn if they are not Jewish. We don't believe in Hell either.


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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:35:39 PM

I later flew into California where there was a young Jewish man handing out pamphlets telling me I was going to burn if I didn't convert to Judaism.



You're either BSing us, or you have your religions confused. Jews don't proselytize. And I've never heard a Jew talking about burning either. I don't know what you experienced but chances that you ran into a Jew doing this is ZERO.

desertpea
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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:41:41 PM
Well, maybe it was one of the faux "Kabbalah" cults in LA?


I-95
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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:45:26 PM

I flew into Wisconsin once. I was met at the airport with a crowd of nutters all telling me I was going to burn in hell for being foreign and only their religion could save me.

The funniest was the LDS man spitting while he talked about talked about me getting burned up in the second coming.

I later flew into California where there was a young Jewish man handing out pamphlets telling me I was going to burn if I didn't convert to Judaism.


Actually, the more I think about this, the more BS the whole thing is. People/groups are not allowed to do this at airports in the USA. Haven't been allowed to hand out pamphlets on any topic in more than 20 years. I've landed in way more American airports than I can even count (and I've flown close to 2 million miles domestically) and the only people I can recall ever doing any soliciting, at ANY airport, were a group of Sth. American nuns collecting money for an orphanage...but the Jewish part of your post is off the charts stupid.

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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:48:40 PM
Ha ha ha. I once had an encounter in a supermarket in Brooklyn with the nicest woman. She was so friendly. She then invited me to her church. I thanked her and said "oh, but I am Jewish.". She said, "that is ok, a lot of members of our church used to be Jewish". Cue spooky movie music.

Generally I have been left alone, however.

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Posted: 11/20/2012 10:55:18 PM

Actually, the more I think about this, the more BS the whole thing is. People/groups are not allowed to do this at airports in the USA. Haven't been allowed to hand out pamphlets on any topic in more than 20 years. I've landed in way more American airports than I can even count (and I've flown close to 2 million miles domestically) and the only people I can recall ever doing any soliciting, at ANY airport, were a group of Sth. American nuns collecting money for an orphanage...but the Jewish part of your post is off the charts stupid.


I remember the Hare Krishnas in LAX in the late 90s.


Well Peas, I believe this thread has gone Thrusday.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:00:31 PM

I remember the Hare Krishnas in LAX in the late 90s.


Yeah, the Krishnas try it every now and again, then when they're kicked out they take the airport to court, claiming free speech rights. They've been ruled against every single time.

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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:00:35 PM
A church is a place to worship or get together with others to worship but you don't worship the church itself (meaning its pastor and everyone who attends). To me it's not so much the religion put whoever happens to be in charge at the particular church. I've seen pastors and ministers go down a very wrong path and the members know it. But instead of trying to fix the problems, I've heard people "proclaim" their full support to follow this " MAN"!!! NO, I don't care what religion you are, that would be following the "wrong" person! (Like the preacher who was in the news because he told his congregation that they should round up all gays and burn them - WTF??? I doubt seriously that message came from God )
Or the people who think that all they have to do is just show up on Sunday morning!! That's it - poof - they're saved! Well my Momma always said, "You always see people missing big opportunities to get into Heaven on their way to church!" Can I get an Amem??


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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:08:11 PM
Well, half my synogogue that is in my age group were raised secular.

So if they were born Jewish but raised secular, why did they reject secularism and become practicing Jews in their adult lives? No one knocked on their doors either.

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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:45:04 PM

Or the people who think that all they have to do is just show up on Sunday morning!! That's it - poof - they're saved! Well my Momma always said, "You always see people missing big opportunities to get into Heaven on their way to church!" Can I get an Amem??

I'll give you a BIG Amen to that!


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Posted: 11/21/2012 1:42:40 AM

We've heard. We're not interested. We've got our own stuff and it's really cool. If we go to hell, it's ok. We'll all be there together roasting Hebrew National hot dogs.


That made me snort I love the "we've got our own stuff and it's really cool" attitude... Rock on



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Posted: 11/21/2012 1:52:31 AM

I flew into Wisconsin once. I was met at the airport with a crowd of nutters all telling me I was going to burn in hell for being foreign and only their religion could save me.
Count me in with those calling BS.

Wisconsin is one of the least religious confrontational states of the union. The Wisconsin Lutherans and Catholics are far, far more concerned about your position on the Packers vs the Bears than on what your religious denomination or national origin may be.

Also, not many international flights into Wisconsin. It's just not the kind of place where people would be protesting an international flight arrival.




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CountryHam
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Posted: 11/21/2012 8:07:57 AM
It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.
That includes those who are Jewish. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Christ came from a Jewish lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL ..

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Posted: 11/21/2012 8:12:49 AM

It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.
That includes those who are Jewish. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Christ came from a Jewish lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL ..


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Posted: 11/21/2012 8:27:02 AM
Add me to those who say Jews don't proselytize so the airport converter was probably a cult guy who called himself Jewish or dressed that way and who the hell knows what he was saying.

Desertpea-Jews most certainly DO have a tradition of 'hell' if you read your Torah and Talmud. It is called gehinnom ad that is why we say kaddish for our loved ones for 11 months. B/c we do not believe that they will be there for the whole 12 month period.

As for this, country ham, I will couch it in Muslim terms for you in case you can understand why it is demeaning and insulting to those of us who are constantly barraged by your love and message. If a Muslim was evangelizing their Truth and Love to you it would sound like this:


It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Muhammad and Allah. No one comes to Allah except through Muhammad.
That includes those who are Christian. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Muhammad came from a Christian lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT/NT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL After all, Jesus is our prophet.


See, Country Ham. No insult to you Christians who are obviously unfamiliar with the Truth and Love of Islam. You might just not have heard it yet and they have to be sure you have. It's their belief system and it's not to insult you but to help you. The Word has to be spread!


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




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Posted: 11/21/2012 8:31:17 AM

Born and raised Catholic here. Maybe I have just been lucky to have never belong to a congregation and a family where this kind of thing has happened or where non-tolerance or conversion has been promoted. We have never been taught "to go after" or try to convert those of other faiths but to respect their beliefs.


Me too.(Of course, some people would say I'm not REALLY a Christian...whatever! ) Whenever evangelizing has been discussed, it's focus is more on living your life in such a way that Christ's love and mercy speaks through you. It certainly isn't the knocking on doors, hitting over the head with a club, threatening "you'll burn in hell" type evangelizing I see from some churches.

And I like what Mapchic said about Wisconsin and the Packers/Bears...having gone to a Jesuit University in Milwaukee, I can tell you that what she said is the GOSPEL TRUTH. Ha Ha!!


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Posted: 11/21/2012 10:59:51 PM
I understand that some religions do have as part of their beliefs, the direction for followers to share/teach/spread the news about their God and religion... I just don't understand how sharing/teaching/spreading that in a way that makes people feel bad or uncomfortable, is demeaning or belittling, or is accompanied by pressure, is consistent with their religion's stance on loving everyone, treating everyone with respect, giving comfort, or being compassionate... I don't object to someone witnessing, I object when how they do it is out of line with other aspects of their beliefs...



CountryHam
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Posted: 11/21/2012 11:15:08 PM
of course a person will be made to feel uncomfortable.
The Holy Spirit is convicting their hearts.

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Posted: 11/21/2012 11:20:18 PM
So is G-d convincing us of things whenever we are insulted and uncomfortable? Or only when it's convenient to your agenda?


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:38:23 AM
Nightowl,

I could not agree more. That's one of the best posts about evangelism I've ever seen in my life. Thanks so much for sharing.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:49:43 AM
Nightowl you explained that beautifully, thank you...

Countryham, since my use of the word "uncomfortable" drew your attention I will clarify what I meant by it... I did not meant it in the sense of something stirring in their heart... I used it to describe the feeling of fear and anxiety I have when someone puts their foot in my house so that I would not be able to close the door... The feeling I get when a small child grabs my hand so tightly because she doesn't understand why a stranger is yelling about her going to hell... Hopefully that clarifies what I meant because I do not believe in allowing anyone to spin my words into an argument for their beliefs... If I've been unclear in this post, I'm happy to try and explain myself better...


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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:53:37 AM
Some people are nuts. If they believe in Christ truly they would know the 2nd commandment is to love thy neighbor as thyself. That includes EVERYONE! I can't fathom not loving others. Especially based on their religion, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. I mean we are ALL God's children. Why be mean to anyone!?!

desertpea
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Posted: 11/22/2012 3:03:36 AM

Desertpea-Jews most certainly DO have a tradition of 'hell' if you read your Torah and Talmud. It is called gehinnom ad that is why we say kaddish for our loved ones for 11 months. B/c we do not believe that they will be there for the whole 12 month period.


I read plenty of Torah and Gehinnom is not the "hell" Christians believe in with eternal damnation. A good chunk of Jews believe it is the place our souls go to remove mortal sin before our automatic entry to "Heaven." Since we automatically go to "Heaven," and life is Hashem's greatest gift AND our greatest concern, we don't worry at all about the afterlife -- because that would put more emphasis on afterlife than life itself. And all these Christians will be there too, so maybe you should take that into consideration.

But thanks for completely ignoring my post about how we don't want Jews to turn to secularism or atheism. If our faith is strong, then conversion attempts fail hardcore. You shouldn't get angry or pissed off, but know that person attempting the conversion is someone with a place in Olam Ha-Ba (and I'm one of the Jews who thinks that is a referral to the "Messianic Age" here on earth, in case you you were curious). And boy, are you going to have a big laugh with that person then.

The more failed conversion attempts, the stronger the faith of the Jew. Those of us who think the Torah is Hashem's Word are such a waste of time, as many Christian faith organizations finally figured out, but it sure is great discussion.

And Christians, don't slack in your duties bringing people to Hashem; Jews can't outside of our faith.

So I retract my earlier statement somewhat, and think the OP shouldn't have walked out. She should have stayed and asked, "why the Jews?"

Happy Thanksgiving, an American holiday commemorating the cooperation between native Americans and those seeking religious freedom.

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Posted: 11/22/2012 5:13:58 AM

I then got a 20 minute lecture on why I shouldn't go to a church of another faith and how Catholics won't go to Heaven because they pray through Mary and don't accept God as their personal savior.
Why do these people think they get to tell others who is going to he'll? I will never understand it. I'm glad the OP walked out rather than tolerate ignorance and bigotry. I have enough to worry about getting myself into heaven. I can't make pronouncements about the rest of you.

I interviewed for a job as a substitute music teacher in a "Christian" school. They denied me the job because they didn't believe that my Catholic faith was in line with their teachings and sent me a letter explaining why my faith was inadequate. The kids sat in study hall whenever the band director was absent.

I lived in NC for many years. There's a lot of that attitude. On the front page of our major daily paper they referred to "Catholics, Christians, and Jews." News flash: Catholics are Christians.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 5:27:38 AM

They denied me the job because they didn't believe that my Catholic faith was in line with their teachings and sent me a letter explaining why my faith was inadequate.


Did you send them a letter back stating why your faith is more than adequate?

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Posted: 11/22/2012 5:51:28 AM
I was a little more emphatic than that. I told them that no matter how loudly they thumped their bibles, that they weren't the only ones going to heaven, among other things. Let's just say I said my peace.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:06:27 AM
Things like this is the major reason I do not go to church. I have my beliefs and I don't need some person up on the pulpit telling me what to believe.

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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:58:16 AM


I was a little more emphatic than that. I told them that no matter how loudly they thumped their bibles, that they weren't the only ones going to heaven, among other things. Let's just say I said my peace.



Aw, I would've taken a completely different approach if it were me in a similar situation and I really wanted the job.

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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:38:53 AM

Born and raised Catholic here. Maybe I have just been lucky to have never belong to a congregation and a family where this kind of thing has happened or where non-tolerance or conversion has been promoted. We have never been taught "to go after" or try to convert those of other faiths but to respect their beliefs.


Me too.(Of course, some people would say I'm not REALLY a Christian...whatever! ) Whenever evangelizing has been discussed, it's focus is more on living your life in such a way that Christ's love and mercy speaks through you.



Ditto to both.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:49:27 AM

of course a person will be made to feel uncomfortable.
The Holy Spirit is convicting their hearts.
No, the reason that it makes me uncomfortable, besides the fact that faith is personal, is that I, yet again have to find a way to politely ask a person to leave me alone.

I've used this analogy before but it's like going for a leisurely swim and having people jump into the water to save me. The first time it's understandable - yes, I know the water is cold and rough, but I'm fine and actually enjoying myself. The second or third time it's annoying. By the tenth time, I just want to drown my would-be rescuer.

Piss off and let me swim.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:50:47 AM

It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.
That includes those who are Jewish. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Christ came from a Jewish lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL ..
Oh boy. Evidence?


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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:00:23 AM

No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.


According to YOUR beliefs.

I'm Catholic, born & raised...of course these days I'm more of a Christmas & Easter Catholic. So I believe in Jesus.

But SO many people from all walks of life have different beliefs. Many of them don't even believe in the Father, never mind Jesus Christ.

NOBODY has the right to tell me what to believe. That is MY business. Stay out of it.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:08:41 AM

I am having a hard time even talking to my friends from church that were there and didn't walk out.
I know that I shouldn't Judge them but I keep thinking why would I have friends that can sit and listen to that kind of bigotry


My guess is that they felt uncomfortable, but weren't sure what to do. We had a Sunday lesson one day where the teacher was showing how similar in faith and beliefs the Muslims and the Mormons are. He was not Muslim, but had lived among them, and read the Torah numerous times. One lady was determined to point out all the bad things that the Muslims "believe" ie: the things she'd read on the internet, or heard from a "cousins sisters aunts friend". She wouldn't stop, and was obviously missing the point. So, DH and I walked out.

Afterwards, we were talking to some friends who told us that they wished they had walked out. One friend told me she didn't know why she didn't just stand up and walk out, except she was embarrassed to be seen leaving. But she was conflicted because she was embarrassed to sit there and listen as well. By the time she made up her mind, it was time to leave anyway. Some people have a hard time standing up for themselves whether through words or actions and the indecision leads to no action.


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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:24:29 AM
I'd like to ditto Nightowl...great job!


I then got a 20 minute lecture on why I shouldn't go to a church of another faith and how Catholics won't go to Heaven because they pray through Mary and don't accept God as their personal savior.


This is a personal favorite. I visited family in August. I'm a Catholic convert. They are "mega church" evangelicals. My being Catholic has always been a bit of...very minor concern(?) to them, especially my "mom". For years, I've avoided any detailed conversations about faith, instead sticking to common ground type of things.

I was gobsmacked when she asked me if Catholic accept Jesus as their Savior. :::: head banging on table :::: I remained composed and answered "Yes, and every week, when we go up to receive communion." I *think* I finally got her attention.


Joy


*maureen*
Bad Wolf

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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:36:47 AM

It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.
That includes those who are Jewish. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Christ came from a Jewish lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL ..


Country ham, how do you explain G-d's promise to the Jews in the bible?


"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5).



"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you." (Genesis 17:7).



"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth." (Deuteronomy 14:2,)



The Jews have been chosen by G-d as special, they are the ones with whom he has made a special covenant. Who are you to decide that what they believe is wrong?

lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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September 2004
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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:46:57 AM
I know I don't have control over whether this thread goes on, but it's becoming very weird for me.

Mostly, it is not about Jewish people any more, but christians who want to hammer down things down each others' throats.
My perception.

I just don't like that this thread still has the name of my religion on it. Leave us alone! Thanks, and peace to you all.

I am grateful for the OP's action in the religious service she attended.

Kelpea
Owner of "best tacky invitation" thread EVER

PeaNut 176,832
November 2004
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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:51:47 AM

But we are not to take that example and use it as a model for sharing the gospel. Too many Christians make that mistake and attempt confrontation. I'm sorry to those who have been on the receiving end of that. Those who have done that TO you are misguided and not following the instruction of our faith.


Thank you for being the first (out of about fifty) people to apologize. It's not a pleasant situation to be placed in. Just as it's not a pleasant situation to be told which of my friends are going to Hell for being anything other than charismatic (evangelical). By a relative. Or being told someone I was close to who had died that day he was going to Hell for being Catholic. By a relative. Or hosting a playdate here in NoVa and overhearing two of the moms saying it was a shame "so and so" was not going to get to Heaven because she wasn't "saved." The other woman was a Catholic. As am I. It just goes on and on and on and on and on. So freakin' sick of the BS.

And this from Batya? Stunning, in its simple message. But the people it's intended for won't get it.



It is because of our love for everyone that leads us to spread the message of Muhammad and Allah. No one comes to Allah except through Muhammad.
That includes those who are Christian. There is nothing insulting in that.
That doesn't diminish the fact that Muhammad came from a Christian lineage. That was prophesied all through the OT/NT. The promised Messiah has come.
The evidence is there, and we all must come to Him. ALL After all, Jesus is our prophet.



JBeans
Toast gazing is an art I do not possess.

PeaNut 200,953
April 2005
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Posted: 11/22/2012 9:55:14 AM

I was gobsmacked when she asked me if Catholic accept Jesus as their Savior. :::: head banging on table :::: I remained composed and answered "Yes, and every week, when we go up to receive communion." I *think* I finally got her attention.


I'm facepalming for you.


Well Peas, I believe this thread has gone Thrusday.
"The Pot has not just met the Kettle, they are getting jiggy on the top of the stove." -Lanus

Margeux
BucketHead

PeaNut 219,867
August 2005
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Posted: 11/22/2012 10:46:41 AM
Don't laugh at me, but I was already brought up that there is a Jewish part of Heaven and a Christian part of Heaven. I have taught that belief to my children as well.


**Margeux**



sharonmnc
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 39,386
May 2002
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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:47:09 AM

I was a little more emphatic than that. I told them that no matter how loudly they thumped their bibles, that they weren't the only ones going to heaven, among other things. Let's just say I said my peace.


Aw, I would've taken a completely different approach if it were me in a similar situation and I really wanted the job.
I'd already been denied the job because my "personal testimony" didn't suit them. I wouldn't have worked there if I were starving to death.


Sharon

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TXDancermom
AncestralPea

PeaNut 146,748
May 2004
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:44:57 PM
Jesus was Jewish.

And I agree, you should be angry, and I probably would have walked out too.

One of my coworkers is Jewish. I appreciate and respect her beliefs and she appreciates and respects mine. We have interesting discussions sometimes, and it is interesting to look at her traditions, and see some of the basis for some of our christian traditions.


zoeybug
BucketHead

PeaNut 425,771
June 2009
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:45:07 PM
I'm also Methodist ( born and raised) and my family belongs to a large urban Methodist church. We have a very traditional service ( "high" service , very similar to an episcopal service without Eucharist every week) but we are very open to all types of people with a pretty non-traditional congregation and I can't imagine my minister saying something if that nature.

I believe we witness through our works and actions toward others than announcing people that don't believe the way we do are going to He'll.
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StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 104,674
September 2003
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Loc: Michigan

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:51:25 PM
I think maybe we might want to be nice to everyone! Let God judge them when he feels like it. God wants us to love everyone so I do. Or I try really hard anyways.


My Pinterest Board: http://pinterest.com/dgirl48236/

Georgiapea
Mom to the Wild Things.

PeaNut 96,783
July 2003
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:10:16 PM
I would be mad too. I don't believe any religious group should try to change the views of any other religious group. Or even the views of the non religious for that matter.

I'm with you on changing churches.

valincal
True North Strong and Free

PeaNut 227,939
October 2005
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:44:18 PM
All this proselytizing and evangelizing, all while they smugly assert that no works are necessary for salvation, just acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour.





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