The Jews!!/ My preacher is a fool: update in Op

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Posted 11/20/2012 by smilesnpeacesigns in NSBR Board
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Sue_Pea
Old Pea Coven member wannabe

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Posted: 11/25/2012 6:54:53 AM

I came across this story this morning in the WaPo. It is about a community of Colombians who found that they have Jewish roots from centuries ago, and many of them have converted to Judaism.

Just thought that those of you who are involved in this thread might find it interesting, as I did.

batya
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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:01:50 AM
Thanks Sue. Interesting article.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:09:47 AM

Jews would absolutely lose it if they saw me eat a cheeseburger, and automatically assume I am Reform -- which rejects the Torah as HaShem's Word.


This, BTW, is hateful and Reform Jews DO NOT reject Torah as G-d's word. I, for one, would never mistake you for a reform Jew. The majority of Reform Jews I know are inclusive and loving.

What you know about mainstream Judaism could fill a thimble. Half a thimble.

Desertpea, you speak for an extraordinarily small contingent of Jews in America numbering at what, a few thousand that have what, one or two synagogues, if that? That in itself is not a problem. But you are spewing a lot of incorrect information as fact and a lot of hateful information about Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, Orthodox Jews--pretty much any Jew who does not ascribe to you limited brand of Judaism, Abe Foxman and the Anti-Defamation League which has don a lot of work to fight bigotry in the US.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:20:31 AM
How in the world can you call individual interpretation "narrow"? I practice the same exact way the Jews did in Moses' time before there were rabbis telling you how to think and how to reject G-d. Karaite Judaism is very simple: Torah is divine, and it is up to you, the individual, to determine what the meaning is.

Only a Talmudic Jew can sit there and tell you how many times it says "I AM THE LORD" in the Torah, and then proceed to tell you G-d has nothing to do with the Torah.



Karaites maintain that every human being has an obligation to study the Hebrew Scriptures and determine for themselves the correct meaning of the Almighty's commandments based on their own reasoning and understanding.[17] On the Day of Judgment it is the individual who will be called into reckoning for his own actions.[18] The ancient adage of the Karaite sages declares: "Search well in the Scriptures and do not rely on anyone's opinion". In this regard the Karaite sages taught: "He who relies upon any of the teachers of the Exile without personal investigation, it is as if he has engaged in idolatry."

Karaites place no value in the interpretations of the majority or the customs of the forefathers. On the contrary, Scripture teaches us: "Do not go after the majority to do evil" (Exodus 23:2). The prophets also warn us against following in the errant footsteps of the ancestors, as it is written: "be not like your fathers... who acted treacherously against YHWH" (2Chronicles 20:7), and again: "they shall not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation" (Psalms 78:8). The same warning applies to the laws invented out of men's hearts, which the prophets call the "commandment of men learned by rote" (Isaiah 29:13).[19]

Karaism is not a "monolithic" faith in which every believer agrees on every detail of understanding of Scripture. Because the burden of interpretation rests on the individual and not a central authority it is inevitable that there will be differences of interpretation and understanding. However this diversity is a strength rather than a weakness and prevents Karaites from getting bogged down with a given interpretation despite the obviousness of its error. This diversity requires the individual Karaite to take personal responsibility for interpreting Scripture, basing his understanding on the merits and logic of a given interpretation. When this method is followed the correct interpretation will generally win out. What unites Karaites together is our common fellowship in the Hebrew Scriptures and desire to live by the pure unaltered instruction of the Creator of the universe.


Published by: World Karaite Movement POB, 7816, Jerusalem 91078, ISRAEL

To learn more, please visit: http://www.karaite-korner.org


This is why Jews like batya get bent out of shape over any religious discussion. They reject the Torah, but embrace a bunch of rabbis arguing with one another over the meaning of the Torah. Then they wonder why Christians keep telling them former Jews are showing up in their congregations.

Because of their rejection of the Torah, even the rabbinical council of Israel (who I don't believe should have any authoritative control of anything, but supposedly most Jews do according to batya, so let's go with that for a minute) doesn't consider Reform or Conservative Jews to be practicing Jews!

At least Orthodox Jews believe in the Torah. I have a great, massive respect for them and can have a decent Torah discussion with them without them getting bent out of shape. Only secular Reform and Conservative go bonkers, as evidenced by this thread.

Sue_Pea
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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:22:07 AM


You're welcome, Batya.

scrappower
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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:32:14 AM
Desert pea you are completely out of line. Shameful actually.



WinoGirl
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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:52:54 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just about the most hateful ignorant thing I have read in 10 years in this place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So I take it you don't go through your posting history?



I know, right?! I almost always skip over lynlam's posts.

The truth isn't ignorant. Could I have said it nicer? Yes. There are people in this world that are not my type and I don't care to spend time with them. That includes you lynlam.

Hateful? Please. I've seen a lot more hateful things than that said in just the 1+ year I've been on this board

peano
Helicopter Dog Mom

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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:58:56 AM
Frothiness!!! In a Jew. How bizarre yet interesting. Carry on.


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Fraidyscrapper
She calls me a Fun Sucker

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Posted: 11/25/2012 8:27:28 AM
Desertpea, what is your interest in denigrating Batya's faith?


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy
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Kelpea
Owner of "best tacky invitation" thread EVER

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Posted: 11/25/2012 8:36:43 AM
As a (lapsed) Catholic, I didn't google that term, DesertPea. I figured Batya knew the term based upon her knowledge. I was right; she didn't google it either; hell, she responded to your gauntlet within three minutes! It probably took a minute to formulate her thoughts and two minutes to type it. Dang, Batya!

I was lucky enough to attend a Sadir once in Brooklyn, when I lived in the City. It was the most awesome experience. I wish I could attend one at your house sometime, Batya!



desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 8:46:24 AM

This, BTW, is hateful and Reform Jews DO NOT reject Torah as G-d's word. I, for one, would never mistake you for a reform Jew. The majority of Reform Jews I know are inclusive and loving.


See? Everything batya doesn't agree with is "hateful!"

Batya, you even posted a direct quote from the ACU and argued with another poster that you don't believe in the divinity of the Torah. Here is a direct quote from the URJ:




We see the Torah as God inspired, a living document that enables us to confront the timeless and timely challenges of our everyday lives.


Inspired. Made by man. Inspired. Not divine. Inspired.


What you know about mainstream Judaism could fill a thimble. Half a thimble.


I know plenty of so-called mainstream Judaism to fill the world over -- and they are practicing Talmudic Judaism, and typically get worked up whenever someone points that out to them. I certainly don't identify myself as a Karaite unless asked. I am merely a Jew.



Desertpea, you speak for an extraordinarily small contingent of Jews in America numbering at what, a few thousand that have what, one or two synagogues, if that?


I just posted what it says in the Torah about "following the majority." The only temple important to me is the one in Jerusalem currently occupied by a Mosque. Your vast knowledge of Karaite Judaism should know why there are few Karaite synogogues --- everyone is their own rabbi, so why do we need synogogues? No central rabbinical authority, as that is your schtick. As a follower of Karaite Judaism, I believe all Jews must take individual responsibility for interpreting the Torah, and not leave it it up to a rabbi to do it for them. By nature, Karaite Judaism doesn't have their version of Martin Luther.

Anyway, I linked a story in the Jewish press to a pretty famous Karaite. There is no Jewish census that has "Karaite" as an option, and you have no idea how many Karaites there are, because faith is a very personal thing. What does that matter? All I want is for more Jews to read Torah and come to the realization that it is divine.

But if more Jews realize the Torah is divine and form their own opinions because they have free will bestowed by HaShem, what happens to your mainstream Talmudic Judaism synogogues?

Now tell me what I am "incorrect" about, after explaining what in the Torah says HaShem "makes mistakes." Because I view THAT as hateful and offensive as a Jew.

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 9:48:19 AM


Desertpea, what is your interest in denigrating Batya's faith?




I explained the reasons why she is intolerant whenever someone posts about their faith. You should read the thread -- maybe you'll learn something. Key thing is Jews don't agree.

Ms. Liz
Practically Perfect in Every Way

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Posted: 11/25/2012 9:54:09 AM

something that some might find "irreverent" is calling God fallible and saying He makes mistakes. That doesn't fall in line with either Old or New Testament teachings regarding the character of the Creator.


Mrs. Tyler, when I read that statement, I agreed with Batya. An example that came to mind was when G-d expressed regret at destroying the world by flood and promised never to do it again. I think it was one more way of anthropomorphizing G-d so that our earlier selves could understand the concepts better. As a teacher, you know that stories are one of the best ways to communicate with a mostly illiterate audience. Another example might be in Genesis when G-d is creating Adama/earth and later realizes that the first attempt is lacking and needs modification (first, Chava/spirit, and later, knowledge.)

The fallibility in the stories is less important than the follow-up. With the creation story, there was the creation of the whole human, and in the flood story there was the Covenant.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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UkSue
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 11/25/2012 9:55:57 AM
I was sad to read your update and am thinking of you. I feel a little estranged from my Church at the moment, as I don't like the new Vicar and his wife. I know I should not be so judgemental and just get over it, but it's hard, because she stands at the entrance and insists on talking 'at' you as you enter, and he stands at the exit as you leave and insists you talk to him. I just cringe every time and it spoils the whole experience for me, but I love so many people in that Church so don't really want to quit.

In some ways, I feel you would be better to swallow your pride and stick with your Church: you may be able to effect change if you still attend? You don't have to agree with everything your Pastor says and does- I would guarantee there are many in the Church who feel as you do, but who stay quiet because they feel it is the Christian thing to do.


It's not the passage of time that heals. It's what you do with that time.

irishscrappermom8
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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:03:00 AM
I applaud your conviction. Nothing will change unless people like you stand up and say you won't tolerate it.

As I've gotten older I have realized that it might be easier to "go along" with whatever, but then I have to live with the feeling of being complicit and agreeing with them with my silence. I have also realized that it's OK and the sky will not fall in if I follow my conscience.

Again, good for you.





smilesnpeacesigns
PeaFixture

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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:08:12 AM

In some ways, I feel you would be better to swallow your pride and stick with your Church: you may be able to effect change if you still attend?


Do you really think it is pride? I just don't feel right about going there any more.

I wish my Dad was still alive so I could talk to him about this.

I am NOT an activist in any way, I didn't go to BF because of my friend but that and walking out of the sermon is probably the biggest kind of protesting I have ever done in my life.


Even with the snark, trolls and spelling police you are a great group of ladies!

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:12:28 AM
I still say you should ask the minister "why the Jews?"

His answer will be your answer.

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:27:22 AM

As a (lapsed) Catholic


You don't get popcorn.

Catholicism already went through and survived a Reformation.

Judaism has to figure out how to survive its most recent reformation, and the answer is obvious: more Torah.

dynalady
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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:48:30 AM

I explained the reasons why
she is intolerant whenever someone posts about their faith


You have explained your interpretation of her posts, not the reality of them. Batya has always been one of the the most tolerant and respectful peas in regard to religion.

You on the other hand, regardless of whether you are discussing religion or politics, present yourself as arrogant, intolerant, hateful and rude. You would do well to follow Batya's example.







"I contend we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts




*maureen*
Bad Wolf

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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:54:22 AM

You on the other hand, regardless of whether you are discussing religion or politics, present yourself as arrogant, intolerant, hateful and rude. You would do well to follow Batya's example.


This!



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UkSue
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 11/25/2012 10:58:56 AM

Do you really think it is pride


I'm sorry if I used the wrong word, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. I don't know what to use instead- I just know I would feel embarrassed to go back after declaring I wouldn't, but in my experience truly Christian people would welcome you, frat her than gloat.

I just feel that Pastors, Vicars, Priests- they are all human just like us, they make mistakes. I didn't always agree with the previous Vicar of my Church but I respected him, nevertheless. They are all just sinners like us- maybe he is going through a journey himself and will come to the realisation that trying to convert Jews may not be where he should expend his energy? In my experience, I know many many people who have converted to Judaism ( maybe because they wanted to marry someone of the Jewish faith) but I have never met a Jew who converted to any other faith. I am sure the are some, but not as many and none in my experience.


It's not the passage of time that heals. It's what you do with that time.

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:05:18 AM

You have explained your interpretation of her posts, not the reality of them. Batya has always been one of the the most tolerant and respectful peas in regard to religion.


You're so cute when you get all righteous. Batya, you, etc. gets all in a huff whenever someone discusses their faith.

You love saying this to others: what gives you the right to judge and condemn?

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:09:54 AM

*passes out popcorn to the Catholic peas while batya googles Karaite Judaism*


Shoot, I had to Google it. I live most of the year in Israel, am married to a Jew, keep a Kosher home, and I'd never heard of a Karaite Jew.

I think I've learned more about Judaism, and the various branches, on 2 Peas, than I have in almost 30 years of being around the faith

Now, gimme my popcorn cuz I'm still a Catholic!

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:21:42 AM
You get popcorn!

Yeah, if you have any questions, let me know. There are some Karaites that believe patrilineal descent determines Jewish offspring.

--

Here is an example of the utter ridiculousness that is the ADL: Jewlicious

I cannot take any organization that thrives on such stupidity seriously. I'll give money to Birthright Israel instead.


Desert pea you are completely out of line. Shameful actually.



Hey scrappower, I know you have this thing, but this is about Jews/Christians. We got over the witch burning thing hundreds of years ago. You're good.

smilesnpeacesigns
PeaFixture

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:24:51 AM

I'm sorry if I used the wrong word, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings


You didn't hurt my feelings I understand what you mean. I am very conflicted about the whole thing, this has been my Church home for a long time....


Even with the snark, trolls and spelling police you are a great group of ladies!

biochemipea
likes shiny things

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:27:58 AM
I don't know you at all, DesertPea. I have honestly never particularly noticed your posts, tone, or anything negative about you. So I am not speaking now out of any type of personal issue with you, and I hope you will believe me about this.

While I know some very basic fundamentals about Judaism I don't understand the language and jargon you are using, nor do I understand the subtleties of the different traditions you are talking about. I say this because my impression of your participation here has nothing to do with any personal beliefs or feelings I have about the Jewish religion, or your practices, or Batya's practices.

Your behaviour here towards Batya has been uncalled for and awful. You are being hostile, and insulting. Your accusations about Batya's behaviour and personaliry here are totally out of line.

I hope you will accept this with the politeness and respect that I hope to convey it with. I truly do not mean this as an "attack", nor am I angry or personally involved in any way.






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desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:31:52 AM

You didn't hurt my feelings I understand what you mean. I am very conflicted about the whole thing, this has been my Church home for a long time....


Okay, imagine this situation: your minister says they are going to fundraiser for a missionary trip to some South American country. Would you support that?

Is there a large Jewish population in your town? Because if there isn't, who exactly are you supposed to convert?


Your behaviour here towards Batya has been uncalled for and awful. You are being hostile, and insulting. Your accusations about Batya's behaviour and personaliry here are totally out of line.

I hope you will accept this with the politeness and respect that I hope to convey it with. I truly do not mean this as an "attack", nor am I angry or personally involved in any way.


How would you treat someone who said you are in the same category with drug addicts because of your beliefs?

She skims posts and then rants about what she thinks you said, but not actually what you said. Never apologizes or admits mistakes when she does this because again, she thinks you're in line with a drug addict.

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:40:17 AM
Mmmmm, There's a Karaite synagogue in Ramlah, I'll have to check it out....

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

PeaNut 97,456
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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:42:09 AM
Now I'm fascinated, DesertPea....has your family always been Karaite? If they have been ,where are they from originally?

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:44:49 AM
Let me know your thoughts if you visit it. You can PM me if you wish.

biochemipea
likes shiny things

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:47:50 AM

How would you treat someone who said you are in the same category with drug addicts because of your beliefs?
I almost always just ignore it.






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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:51:35 AM

They reject the Torah


This is not true. There is no Jew, Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox or otherwise who rejects the Torah. That is blasphemous and offensive. But you *know* that and it is exactly why you say it. There is no such thing as a 'Talmudic Jew.' Except to a Karaite. So I will no longer take your soggy old bait b/c you are enjoying this too much.

The rest of your accusations I will not address and I will let my posting history speak for itself. I will let your posts speak for themselves, too, b/c they are doing fabulously and I will getting my own popcorn.

Maureen, Kim, et al, thank you. I will continue to speak up for people in general, regardless of brand of Judaism or religion in general. I will also take up for the drug addicts, if they are seeking help and not dealing to my kids.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




smilesnpeacesigns
PeaFixture

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:51:38 AM

Okay, imagine this situation: your minister says they are going to fundraiser for a missionary trip to some South American country. Would you support that?

Is there a large Jewish population in your town? Because if there isn't, who exactly are you supposed to convert?



If the trip is to give food to hungry people and clothes to those who need them then yes, I would support it.

Nope I live in the south, we don't even have a synagogue in town, I don't know who he is talking about.

I believe that the key to witnessing is to act, live, like a Christian ( kind, giving, thoughtful, nice, non-judgemental, and loving to those we meet, deal with daily and our loved ones) in those actions people start to wonder about things ask questions and then you give them answers.

I have shared my faith with plenty of people , all of them have asked me about it in one way or another.

And the fact that my preacher named a specific group bothered me.


Even with the snark, trolls and spelling police you are a great group of ladies!

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:52:54 AM
I was raised secular/Reform.

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

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Posted: 11/25/2012 11:53:33 AM

Let me know your thoughts if you visit it. You can PM me if you wish.


I will. We live in the Northern Galilee so it might be a while before I get anywhere near Ramala, but I will probably go there. DH says he knows exactly where it is.

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:02:06 PM


WTF?? what the HELL is wrong with you?


Apparently, I understand that Judaism doesn't accept atheism among Jews, nor does the Torah say that HaShem makes mistakes.

Please, I am not preaching that in order to be a real Jew, you must have two sinks in your kitchen and not eat cheeseburgers. You simply must accept the Torah is the Word of G-d. That is what makes you Jewish, not some freaking out if you chew a piece of gum or drive to a synogogue. You are an individual person, not part of some manmade regulated collective, and you have the mental capacity to interpret HaShem's Torah on your own.

Listen my son to the teaching of your father and do not abandon the Torah of your mother; because it is a beautiful wreath for your head and a necklace upon your throat (Prv 1,8-9)

In order for a Jew to become a Christian, they must abandon the Torah. Same for atheism, secularism, whatever ism you want to put there. If you do not believe the Torah is the Word of G-d, then you will be very vulnerable to conversion and lash out at any attempts to do so. So the antidote to conversion is always Torah.

So someone can preach to me until they are blue in the face about Christ, Mohammed, the Rebbe, whatever -- it does nothing. I can have respect for their faith and reverence to G-d, but I have Torah on my side. I can disprove any attempt to the contrary, and probably someone attempting to convert me will learn a thing or two not only about real Judaism, but most likely their own faith. Then we can laugh over a bagel.

Ad if a Jew doesn't believe the Torah is G-d's Word? They have nothing. No defense. Nothing. Their only course of action is to belittle and lash out at whoever is trying to convert them. They accuse, they whine, they claim religion is being shoved down their throat. Any excuse they can think of. They can't defend their empty, non-existent faith. If you don't believe me, then read the Torah. Same thing happened there.

And you call me nuts, while someone who thinks eating a cheeseburger is a grave sin against G-d but doesn't believe the Torah is divine, and then says it is deplorable for Christians to preach G-d. Please sell that hypocritical cray cray elsewhere.

Oops, did I just "shove my religion down your throat?"

You added about 90% of this post after I went to bed.

I don't care what kind of extremist religious views you hold. If it makes you happy and doesn't direct you to sacrifice small children, go for it.

My complaint was about your crazy, over-the-top, wild-eyed rudeness and personal attacks toward Batya. And I see that's only gotten worse overnight.

It seems the election is over and now you've had to find a new way to allow the bitterness and blackness in your soul to escape. And that has ZERO to do with your religious beliefs.


LUCYG
northern california

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:02:20 PM
I-95-I wouldn't talk to desertpea about the karaite synagogue. She herself doesn't believe in them having synagogues, only the original temple that was destroyed. She herself said it. So that synagogue violates her own beliefs since it's a Judaism that counters even the Biblical Judaism that is based in community and instead is individualistic in nature, for se said:


Desertpea, you speak for an extraordinarily small contingent of Jews in America numbering at what, a few thousand that have what, one or two synagogues, if that?


I just posted what it says in the Torah about "following the majority." The only temple important to me is the one in Jerusalem currently occupied by a Mosque. Your vast knowledge of Karaite Judaism should know why there are few Karaite synogogues --- everyone is their own rabbi, so why do we need synogogues? No central rabbinical authority, as that is your schtick. As a follower of Karaite Judaism, I believe all Jews must take individual responsibility for interpreting the Torah, and not leave it it up to a rabbi to do it for them.


Thus, she contradicts herself. Shocking. Not sure if it's lack of knowledge in her beliefs or lack of faith (since she admits she is reluctant to share her sect):


I certainly don't identify myself as a Karaite unless asked.


I, OTOH, am proud to tell people what kind of Jew I am, and teach them about it, and also tell them about the other kind of Jews so they understand where we're coming from. That it's suspect she does not is obvious.

All this talk about "Talmudic Judaism", "Talmudic Synagogues" and no belief in Torah, terms and beliefs I have never heard of in 30+ years of being a living, breathing practicing Jew in NY sounds a lot like brainwashing. For in Pirke Avot, the Faith of Our Fathers, we 'Talmudic Jews' are taught that the world rests upon three things: on TORAH, on GOOD WORKS and acts of LOVING KINDNESS."


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:03:44 PM

If the trip is to give food to hungry people and clothes to those who need them then yes, I would support it.

Nope I live in the south, we don't even have a synagogue in town, I don't know who he is talking about.


Nah, if the minister wanted you to outright evangelize while doing those things is what I meant.

Again, you have to ask him why Jews. And if you want to evangelize to me, then you'll report back that you failed (I can guarantee you won't succeed). This is a total guess: I think he wants his congregation to perform a test of faith and Bible study. If there are no Jews in town, then that is the only thing that makes sense to me why he would request it.

batya
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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:16:23 PM

And again, I won't expect an apology from someone who thinks people like me are on the same level as drug addicts.


OK. I have combed through all my posts on this thread. Can you point out where I said you are on the level of a drug addict? I didn't even mention drug addicts. I'm fairly sure they are not relevant to the discussion. Can you tell me what that even means???


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:31:17 PM

This is not true. There is no Jew, Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox or otherwise who rejects the Torah.


Reform, and a good chunk of Conservative synogogues reject the fact that the Torah was written by G-d. You posted it yourself for the Conservative Union, and I gave you the Union for Reform Judaism link that specifically says the Reform movement believes the Torah was divinely inspired.

In the Torah itself, it does not say that. It says the exact opposite. The only difference between me and an Orthodox Jew is that I don't do the Talmud thing. So again, you post like I said something I did not and rail against it.

Jews who convert to Christianity, Islam, etc. reject the Torah's divinity in order to convert. Atheists do as well.

You really need to get your stuff straight.


That is blasphemous and offensive.


Everything is offensive to you, Batya. You haven't even explained why you rejected Orthodox Judaism and instead believe the Torah is NOT the Word of G-d, or why even Israel's head rabbi doesn't consider a Reform or Conservative conversion as valid. They don't think you are practicing Judaism for a reason.


But you *know* that and it is exactly why you say it. There is no such thing as a 'Talmudic Jew.' Except to a Karaite. So I will no longer take your soggy old bait b/c you are enjoying this too much.


Karaites existed long before Rambam, so now you are just making stuff up.


The rest of your accusations I will not address and I will let my posting history speak for itself.


Of course you won't address them, because you don't have answers. Your posting history is filled with the same self-righteous hyperbole.

batya
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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:44:28 PM
Judaism existed before Christianity, so according to you, Christians are making stuff up.

Still waiting for you to point out where I said anything about drug addicts.

You are a very poor ambassador for the Karaites.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:46:34 PM

I-95-I wouldn't talk to desertpea about the karaite synagogue. She herself doesn't believe in them having synagogues, only the original temple that was destroyed. She herself said it. So that synagogue violates her own beliefs since it's a Judaism that counters even the Biblical Judaism that is based in community and instead is individualistic in nature, for se said:


You sit there, copy paste what I said word for word, skim it, and AGAIN intentionally warp what I said so you can rant against something you fundamentally do not understand.

You are off in la la land again after YOU claimed you were all knowing about Karaite Judaism. Why do Karaites have synogogues? Who leads the service?

batya
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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:49:19 PM
I see you're getting defensive about what I said and have no answer. That's ok. It's expected.

You still haven't answered about where I said anything about you likened to a drug addict. I'm waiting.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




scrappammie
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Posted: 11/25/2012 12:50:21 PM
After reading through the whole thread, I know this:

If I were curious to learn more about the Christian faith, I would ask moveablefeast rather than skybar.

It's clear to me that if I want to learn more about the Jewish faith, Batya is who I'll seek information from - not desertpea.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone why.

desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:05:25 PM
I see the posts are deleted, or search isn't working They were in the s/o thread about marrying one of another faith. You also had some rant about how Republicans only allows Jews in the party because of some evangelical Christian theory in some political thread. It was highly giggle worthy.

Answer my questions batya. You were the one who said you know all about Karaite Judaism, but you never met one.

And Pammie, I really wouldn't expect more of you.

scrappammie
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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:11:07 PM
desertpea...

I think what you're missing is that I would expect more (and perhaps, better) from you.

pam

dynalady
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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:13:16 PM

You love saying this to others: what gives you the right to judge and condemn?


I have never said that. I will present my reasons for believing as I do, and why I think those who believe in a god are wrong, but I have always said that I don't care what anyone else believes. If it works for you and makes you happy, go for it. What I say you or anyone else does not have the right to do is to try to force those who do not share your beliefs to live by them.







"I contend we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts




desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:16:16 PM
I sincerely doubt your sincerity Pammie.

Oh batya, I am not an ambassador for Karaites. Nowhere close. The Torah is.


The authentic Hebrew religion is that which is taught by the Creator Himself in the Hebrew Scriptures without addition or subtraction, as it is written: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of YHWH your God" (Deuteronomy 4:2).


Same exact thing I would tell anyone who preached NT at me. But if you remove divine origin of Torah, that defense is gone.

biochemipea
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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:18:00 PM
DesertPea, are you referencing this post by Batya on the "would you marry a person of another faith?" thread:

And Judaism isn't like that for everyone. So I can see how *some* Jews have no problem marrying a Christian who cares about going to church (though the Jews that I know who marry out also marry people who aren't very devoted to their religions), but for me that would never work. I'd sooner be alone. It would be like me marrying a political conservative or someone who has no work ethic or a drug addict or a man who goes into debt. Just totally unmatched values that would make for a bad marriage. (And no, I am not comparing conservatives to addicts so don't even go there!)
Because if you are, there is no way you can get in a flap over this. She didn't compare you or anyone else to a drug addict. I think you need to step back and try to look at this situation a little more calmly. You sound really upset and you are really extracting stuff from Batya's posts that she didn't say.






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Sarah*H
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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:18:53 PM
Desert pea, what is your purpose on this thread? Or this board for that matter? Do you just like to argue? You don't participate in the community except on political or religious threads, you insult everyone who disagrees with you and you do a piss poor job of communicating your politics or faith in a way that makes anyone want to understand either. So what's the point, just to argue as long as someone will engage you?


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