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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
 |  Posted: 11/30/2012 11:14:14 PM
Damn, and here I thought it was just Democrat rhetoric! 
This is just part of the article, the protests are starting in New York, because they can't afford to live off of their wages.
The median hourly wage for food service and prep workers is a mere $8.90 an hour in New York City, according to the New York Department of Labor. But Jasska Harris still makes the federal minimum wage -- $7.25 -- after five months on the job, and struggles to get even 35 hours a week. And that minimum wage buys less than it used to. A recent study from the National Employment Law Project pointed out that the value of the minimum wage is 30 percent lower than it was in 1968.
"I don't think we can afford to write off fast food anymore as simply a sector that offers transitional jobs for teenagers," said Annette Bernhardt, policy co-director at NELP. "Increasingly working families are depending on this industry, and unless we confront the serious problem of low wages in the fast food industry, we're not going to solve the job quality problem for the labor market as a whole."
The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that seven out of 10 growth occupations over the next decade will be low-wage fields. And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
"For a lot of people it's a second chance or even a last chance," Shaiken said.
Fast food weathered the recession, and the biggest names are seeing big profits. Yum! Brands, which runs Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC, saw profits up 45 percent over the last four fiscal years, and McDonald's saw them up 130 percent. (After Walmart, Yum! Brands and McDonald's are the second and third-largest low-wage employers in the nation.) Yet those profits are not being passed on to workers like Harris and Jantuah, who remain stuck at or barely above a stagnant minimum wage.
Yahoo Fiance News |
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Bumpea
BucketHead
PeaNut 487,882
November 2010
Posts: 708
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 11/30/2012 11:58:58 PM
Their time would be better spent looking for a new (or second) job that pays more. No one in their right mind should expect a fast food job alone to cover anyone's base needs.
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Mrs Smarty Pants
PEAing Like R. Kelly
PeaNut 180,865
December 2004
Posts: 13,439
Layouts: 0
Loc: Brooklyn, NY/Now Newark NJ
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 12:06:56 AM
ITA! With Mrs Romney .. Err Bumpea.
Your low skill / low wage job sucks? Just get another job!
I'll create some for you from my magical job box.
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Bumpea
BucketHead
PeaNut 487,882
November 2010
Posts: 708
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:18:56 AM
With your celebrity president at the helm of this sinking ship, Mrs. Smarty Pants, it will definitely take a magic box to create jobs. On that you are correct.
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,673
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 12:25:06 AM
Of the 73.9 million hourly workers age 16 and over in 2011; 3.8 million were paid at or below the federal minimum wage. This equals 5.2% of the hourly paid workers. The percentage in 1979 was 13.4%.
Bureau of Labor Statistics | |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:33:35 AM
Their time would be better spent looking for a new (or second) job that pays more. No one in their right mind should expect a fast food job alone to cover anyone's base needs.
Ah, but the article clearly states that those "fast food jobs" wages are clearly how MANY American families are forced to live, and the average age of that worker is 28 years old. Don't you think if these people could find other jobs they'd be working them. GET REAL!
The article also clearly states that these companies are making huge profits during this recession, and are still paying their employee's crap wages. I hope they succeed in unionizing, they should be paid a fair wage.
It's like the "Papa John's" owner's little fit over Obamacare:
The CEO and founder of Papa John's pizza wants investors to know that when the president's health care law takes effect, the price of pizza is going up with it.
According to "Papa" John Schnatter, the cost of providing health insurance for all of his pizza chain's uninsured, full-time employees comes out to about 14 cents on a large pizza. That's less than adding an extra topping and a third the price of an extra pepperoncini. If you want that piping hot pie delivered, the $2 delivery fee will cost you 14 times as much as that health insurance price hike.
"We're not supportive of Obamacare, like most businesses in our industry," Schnatter said on a conference call with shareholders last week, as reported by Politico. "If Obamacare is in fact not repealed, we will find tactics to shallow out any Obamacare costs and core strategies to pass that cost onto consumers in order to protect our shareholders' best interests."
When his facebook page exploded with comments like this from his customers, he started back tracking his statements:
"I lose more than that in a week under my sofa cushion," one Facebook commenter wrote. "I'd gladly pay 20 cents for a child to go to a doctor when they've got a cold, rather than have them show up at the ER."
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gypsyz3
Beach Bum Pea
PeaNut 2,013
November 1999
Posts: 8,885
Layouts: 25
Loc: Miami, FL
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 12:35:58 AM
No one in their right mind should expect a fast food job alone to cover anyone's base needs.
I have to agree with this. People are unwilling to see the trickle down effect. Raise the cost of minimum wage and you automatically raise the cost of living. Then once again, people on the new minimum wage cannot afford to live on the earnings. Minimum wage jobs are a stepping stone not a career choice. |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:39:48 AM
People are unwilling to see the trickle down effect.
Trickle Down, now I'm really LMAO, surely you still don't believe in that Fairy Tale?
Minimum wage jobs are a stepping stone not a career choice.
They are a career choice if you can't find other work, your family needs (not wants) don't go down just because "fast food" jobs are the only work you can find.
"Increasingly working families are depending on this industry, and unless we confront the serious problem of low wages in the fast food industry, we're not going to solve the job quality problem for the labor market as a whole." |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:43:50 AM
Their time would be better spent looking for a new (or second) job that pays more. No one in their right mind should expect a fast food job alone to cover anyone's base needs.
Yes, that's right even after increasing their profits 130% in the middle of a damn recession like McDonalds has, they shouldn't have to increase the wages of their employees. BS |
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Bumpea
BucketHead
PeaNut 487,882
November 2010
Posts: 708
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:52:58 AM
Trickle Down, now I'm really LMAO, surely you still don't believe in that Fairy Tale?
If you'd read past the portion you quoted, you would have understood that she was speaking of the flip side of 'trickle down' (aka: cause and effect).
Raise min wage and the cost of everything goes up. This leaves everyone no better off than they were before. Worse, actually, because in order to pay the higher wage, the employer will have to employ LESS people. You then have more people OUT of work.
Seriously, it's not rocket science.
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,673
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:54:28 AM
Of the 30,323 million women age 25 and over working hourly jobs; 4.2% were at or below the federal minimum wage. That percentage will never be "clearly how MANY American families are forced to live". A percentage such as 5.2% of hourly workers making at or below federal minimum wage can never be described with words like "many".
Now lets see your statistics on how many of those "many" may be working in the "service" food industry and are making tips - cash tips. Grossly under reported to the IRS tips.
Shall we start talking about how the percentage of hourly workers making federal minimum wage or below has started to increase under BO despite the past 3 increases in the minimum wage? Or how about we discuss the fact that if both parties in a household are working at those jobs; they are above the federal poverty line. | |
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pennyring
Thrift Ninja
PeaNut 226,011
October 2005
Posts: 22,492
Layouts: 40
Loc: Rite Aid
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 12:56:20 AM
Honestly, it isn't' up to McDonald's, or any other corporation to single-handedly fix the economy. That's just silly.
The way I see the world is this:
A lay-off is a challenge. It means you need to hone yourself and your skills and find a way back into the workforce.
It's not an opportunity to sink to the bottom and remain there.
McDonald's jobs should be temporary in nature for the majority of their staff.
Is it easy to find a new job now? No. But it can be done. You just have to be your best self and find something. Reinvent yourself if you have to. Do what you have to do.
But for the love of god, unless you plan to make a career out of store management, don't rely on the Golden Arches to support your family.
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:38:12 AM
According to the US Department of Labor and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2006 there were 3,036,000 people empoyeed in fast food and counter work.
and that was in 2006, that number is MANY people, no matter how many
fingers you count it on. Sorry
Inflation cannot be blamed solely on raising the rate of minimum wage. If that was true we would not have inflation during the years that minimum wage is not increased. Inflation has many causes, blaming it on wage increases for the poor may sound good, but it's not the sole cause of inflation..
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lovestorun
PeaNut 90,754
June 2003
Posts: 7,006
Layouts: 38
Loc: So Cal
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:56:52 AM
You really think servers are getting cash tips in this era? Get real. 99% of people pay with a debit card and total it out. You can't avoid reporing credit card tips. Some people *do* pay with cash, sure. But the majority of people don't have anything but debit cards. Some people leave cash tips and pay with cards, but 99% just total out a debit card transaction and call it good.
Not to mention the people who leave crap tips because of the "economy". | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,673
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 2:05:11 AM
You really think servers are getting cash tips in this era?
This is what I said:
Now lets see your statistics on how many of those "many" may be working in the "service" food industry and are making tips - cash tips. Grossly under reported to the IRS tips.
And yes many "servers" as in "wait staff" are getting tips. No, not the fast food workers however when one looks at the federal minimum wage and below statistics; one will find that "fast food servers" are not a special category. One will see that the food preparation and serving industry is one category. There are actually food establishments where one can sit down and receive one's food without standing at the counter first and yes those "servers" should receive a tip (20% is customary). | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,673
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 2:20:56 AM
According to the US Department of Labor and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2006 there were 3,036,000 people empoyeed in fast food and counter work.
and that was in 2006, that number is MANY people, no matter how many
fingers you count it on. Sorry
In 2006, 6,524 million workers in food prep and serving occupations were paid hourly wages. Those 6,524 million hourly workers account for only 8.5% of the hourly paid workers over the age of 16 in this country. Of that 6,524m workers; 1,003m were paid at or below the federal minimum wage. That equates to 15.4% of the 6,524 million hourly workers in the food prep and serving industry. Bureau of Labor Stastics Check out Table 4. | |
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wren*walk
PeaAddict
PeaNut 481,431
September 2010
Posts: 1,822
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 2:44:54 AM
No one in their right mind should expect a fast food job alone to cover anyone's base needs.
I'd really love to hear the rationale on this.
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,749
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 3:46:54 AM
In 2006, 6,524 million workers in food prep and serving occupations were paid hourly wages. Those 6,524 million hourly workers account for only 8.5% of the hourly paid workers over the age of 16 in this country. Of that 6,524m workers; 1,003m were paid at or below the federal minimum wage. That equates to 15.4% of the 6,524 million hourly workers in the food prep and serving industry. Bureau of Labor Stastics Check out Table 4.
Ok, just for the sake of totals, which we both know are not up to today's "real" totals, because many new restaurants have opened since this study. Are you still trying to tell me that over million people are not many?
Here's a fact/graph, in no state can you currently make enough money to rent a two bedroom apartment, working a 40 hour week for minimum wage. The graph shows exactly how many hours you'd have to work for that apartment.
You can fight this all you want, I'm just saying that these protests are news, as they took place on the 11/27/12.
People working these jobs are fighting back, and are tired of being taken advantage of by these companies. Deal with it anyway you want, it's happening with, or without you..
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lynlam
Don'tcha wish your girlfriend had spurs like mine?
PeaNut 46,248
August 2002
Posts: 6,394
Layouts: 41
Loc: Ohio
| Posted: 12/1/2012 8:09:11 AM
"Raise min wage and the cost of everything goes up. This leaves everyone no better off than they were before. Worse, actually, because in order to pay the higher wage, the employer will have to employ LESS people. You then have more people OUT of work.
Seriously, it's not rocket science. "
------------
I am really beginning to think it IS rocket science to a stunningly large number of people. I don't know whether to laugh, cry or puke.
Look4angels, if you are so sure that paying fast food workers more would solve all our woes, by all means go in and tell them you want to pay $10 for your Big Mac next time. Because that is exactly what will happen if people who think like you keep making the real job creators pay more than the market can justify.
Then when your McDonald's worker gets hours cut or laid off AND still has to pay $10 for a Big Mac, will you feel better?
How about you just put your money where your mouth is, and next time you eat out, leave a tip that is equal to the amount of the bill. That will help that poor underpaid, abused server and you can feel all warm and fuzzy.
Quit trying to run the lives of everyone else - you keep your money and do what you want with it, and we will do the same. |
 
"We demand entire freedom of action and then expect the government in some miraculous way to save us from the consequences of our own acts... Self-government means self-reliance." Calvin Coolidge
Lynlam, the second-tier Pea, paid (except it appears she is not) political shill. | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,214
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/1/2012 8:26:08 AM
Great. You get paid more to flip a greasy burger that will now cost customers $10.  | |
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voltagain
OklaPhoma
PeaNut 18,334
July 2001
Posts: 35,315
Layouts: 15
Loc: State of cultural confusion. Yeehaw and Aloha have collided!
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 8:31:34 AM
Minimum wage has never, even at it inception, been enough to be a self supporting wage.
Historically, every time the mw goes up so do the salaries of those earning more than the minimum and inflation happens. It is not the **only** cause of inflation but there is a direct correlation between raising mw and inflation.
If you want to earn more don't expect to have government force employers to pay more.. become pro active in getting job training, get a formal education, look for a better paying job. |
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elaine226
PeaNut
PeaNut 559,661
July 2012
Posts: 309
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 8:32:24 AM
Further your education to prepare for a "career" not just a job. | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,214
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/1/2012 8:32:38 AM
They are a career choice if you can't find other work, your family needs (not wants) don't go down just because "fast food" jobs are the only work you can find.
That would be solved by having a government that allowed businesses to grow and hire more employees. That's not the government we re-elected. So we have high unemployment and people stuck in fast food and other minimum wage jobs that aren't meant for supporting a family. | |
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grammypeg
BucketHead
PeaNut 269,155
July 2006
Posts: 773
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 8:35:50 AM
...and my family for one will not be purchasing from McD's menu of $10.00 sandwiches! | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,214
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/1/2012 8:46:08 AM
The prices of many fast food menus have already increased already. It shouldn't cost a family of four nearly $30 to eat at McDonalds. 
Plus, we rarely go to McDonalds as it is. the quality of food just isn't worth our hard earned money or the caloric intake.  | |
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katybee8
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 421,136
April 2009
Posts: 5,016
Layouts: 8
Loc: Chicago NW burbs
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 8:58:19 AM
One thing that the people who scream, "Educate or train yourself so you can get a better job," don't realize is that some people really can't.
You know there are people who work at McDonald's who are cruising along with an IQ of about 74 who will be able to do nothing "better" with their lives. They shouldn't have to live in poverty while the people who write the checks keep raking in the bucks.
The fear of the ten dollar cheeseburger is because you realize that the rich will give up nothing without it being legislated and that it has nothing to do with the money they will have to cough up.
The Waltons are a great example of this. The four siblings are among the Top 20 richest people in the world and they hire about 4 full time employees per store. Everyone else is in at much less. They won't give people full time jobs at a decent wage and that is why their employees are sucking off the government.
For those who want a smaller government, why should a working person not be able to make a wage big enough to rent an apartment, feed their kids and buy medical care?
It makes me wonder how much of the burden would be taken off the government if some of these places started paying a living wage rather than the minimum wage. | |
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anmore
AncestralPea
PeaNut 56,372
November 2002
Posts: 4,894
Layouts: 0
Loc: Buffalo, NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:00:14 AM
If you want to earn more don't expect to have government force employers to pay more.. become pro active in getting job training, get a formal education, look for a better paying job.
Because it needs to be repeated. Fast food jobs are not a career. I have found two jobs in the last 3 years. It's not impossible. It's because I have an education. That I paid for. Took me 20 years to pay off my loans but I did. And I did not have a family until I was graduated and working.
And many many servers receive cash tips - especially at higher end restaurants. |
NSBR: Not for sissies.
If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies! | |
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*Shannah*
Haven't you heard about the word?
PeaNut 242,768
January 2006
Posts: 6,039
Layouts: 2
Loc: Looking at the purple mountain majesties
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:13:00 AM
how are ALL these people in minimum wage jobs supposed to AFFORD a higher education? if they can't even afford home and food, how can they afford college? it's not like there is ALL this free money lying around to send these people to school. it's ridiculous. there is NO reason for fast food chains to be racking in MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars and not give their employees a living wage. GREED is the motivator in this country, and it makes me sick. and walmart. my god they are awful. Billions and billions in profit and they still screw their employees. | |
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Anna*Banana
:blink:
PeaNut 69,360
February 2003
Posts: 22,842
Layouts: 6
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:20:58 AM
Here's an idea, why doesn't our president and his people work on improving the economy so we have more jobs with good wages available... Now there's a thought I bet they never thought of!
I can think of many people who took "stepping stone" jobs, who would have probably missed the whole lesson that they provide, if they'd made a real living wage with it.
Some jobs really are "stepping stone" or second jobs, meant only for supplementary or pocket money, like fast food worker jobs. |
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anmore
AncestralPea
PeaNut 56,372
November 2002
Posts: 4,894
Layouts: 0
Loc: Buffalo, NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:22:09 AM
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NSBR: Not for sissies.
If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies! | |
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NYCPea
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 319,764
May 2007
Posts: 5,001
Layouts: 0
Loc: NYC
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:50:37 AM
Look4angels, if you are so sure that paying fast food workers more would solve all our woes, by all means go in and tell them you want to pay $10 for your Big Mac next time. Because that is exactly what will happen if people who think like you keep making the real job creators pay more than the market can justify.
Then when your McDonald's worker gets hours cut or laid off AND still has to pay $10 for a Big Mac, will you feel better?
How about you just put your money where your mouth is, and next time you eat out, leave a tip that is equal to the amount of the bill. That will help that poor underpaid, abused server and you can feel all warm and fuzzy.
Quit trying to run the lives of everyone else - you keep your money and do what you want with it, and we will do the same.
This is exactly the type of attitude that guarantees the US will never be independent of countries like China when it comes to producing our goods. Americans love their cheap crap. Enjoy your Big Mac!  |
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NYCPea
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 319,764
May 2007
Posts: 5,001
Layouts: 0
Loc: NYC
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:54:07 AM
And many many servers receive cash tips - especially at higher end restaurants.
I'm not sure where you came up with this but it's incorrect. My husband has worked at several higher end places in NYC and the majority of patrons pay by credit card.
Unless we have different ideas of what a higher end restaurant is? I'm referring to three-four stars.
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recap.pea
PeaFixture
PeaNut 288,074
December 2006
Posts: 3,130
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 9:57:49 AM
I disagree with this protest. First of all...they KNEW what their wages would be when they accepted the job. Secondly, if you don't like the pay, then look for a job that pays more. Third, although I think the minimum wage is not high enough, these jobs pay at least or often more than minimum wage. I know jobs can be hard to come by and honestly I am grateful every day that I have one, no matter what it pays. But if I were not happy with my pay, I would seek to work elsewhere and try to increase my pay, I wouldn't protest. | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,673
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 10:08:25 AM
I'm not sure where you came up with this but it's incorrect. My husband has worked at several higher end places in NYC and the majority of patrons pay by credit card.
Unless we have different ideas of what a higher end restaurant is? I'm referring to three-four stars.
OK so often times the tip is not "cash" is the point you are making. Fact remains those tips are a larger portion of their "income" than the "hourly wage" they are paid. I have a kid working that kind of job (not 3 or 4 star - more like corner dining spot that is part of a chain); on an given weekend night he/she easily brings home 125 to 150 in tips. And no he/she does not serve drinks.
So of the hourly workers in this country, 5.2% are making at or below federal minimum wage. The entire 5.2% are not in the food prep or serving industry. So of the percentage that are, what is the real income of those who receive tips as well. Start to put things in perspective. Now for fun, start researching which states actually have a higher minimum wage than the federal minimum. | |
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WImomma
BucketHead
PeaNut 504,629
April 2011
Posts: 659
Layouts: 18
| Posted: 12/1/2012 10:10:15 AM
Now lets see your statistics on how many of those "many" may be working in the "service" food industry and are making tips - cash tips. Grossly under reported to the IRS tips.
Yup. I worked at Pizza Hut a couple of years ago. Each shift I made about $40 in wages, and $100+ cash in tips alone. I was the only single person working there, everyone else supported a family. Obviously just fine too since 4 years later they all still work there and have no complaints. |
 
bucketsofwhimsy.blogspot.com | |
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Scrapn Nana
PEAring through my camera lens
PeaNut 272,954
August 2006
Posts: 7,010
Layouts: 19
| Posted: 12/1/2012 10:34:40 AM
Unfortunately, there are no easy answers, as much as we would like to think there are. How many of you clamoring for a higher minimum wage have your own business? If you are doing well enough to voluntarily pay your starting employees more than minimum wage, I congratulate you.
To earn money, people have two main options: get a job with someone willing to pay you or start a business of some kind. Jobs are more scarce these days because it is really hard to have a viable business, not just because of the economy, but because our Government has added so many regulations and so much red tape that it's often simply not worth it, especially if you have employees as most businesses do.
People who start businesses do so in order to make money, initially to provide for themselves and/or their family. They don't take on the hard work involved in running a business just as a public service. It's not a bad thing to want to make a profit. We all need to make a living.
Occasionally those small businesses become bigger businesses, and they make bigger profits, but most of the time, a lot of those businesses really struggle just to survive and still make enough profit to make it worth keeping the business running. When you raise the minimum wage, smaller businesses have to make tough choices. They let workers go, charge higher prices, and frequently, to fold. We have seen too many businesses close their doors in recent years. Yes, you still have big businesses like McDonalds, but they are in business to make money, too. Just because they are more successful doesn't mean they are going to pay a higher wage, provide health care, etc., without offsetting those costs in some way, because they are in business for the profit. So we will pay higher costs for that Big Mac. That may be no serious setback to McDonald's or the people willing to pay the higher price for that burger, but it's one reason why you see so few Mom & Pop businesses these days. The big businesses can cope with the added costs easier than the small businesses can.
When small businesses are so handicapped that they either can't stay in business or even get started, then those regulations are contributing to the destruction of the American Dream.
The more that government tries to fix things and make everything "fair" the more of a mess they make. There are always unintended consequences. They aren't economists, they are a bunch of lawyers. Our founding fathers had some lawyers in the mix, but many were farmers and businessmen, too, so they helped balance things.
Please notice that when I speak of Congress, I am referring to BOTH political parties. BOTH sides are at fault. Nearly every single person in Congress is a lawyer. Do they understand economics? No. Do they understand what is involved in running a business? No. Do they understand that you don't spend more than you make? Obviously not, or we wouldn't be in such a financial mess.
When Congress raises the minimum wage, it isn't the big businesses they are hurting nearly as much as the small ones. But even the bigger ones aren't immune to bankruptcy. When it is no longer profitable to run a business, the business will close. When the headaches involved in running the business become more than the profit gained is worth, businesses close. Every business that folds gives us less to choose from. Every new government regulation intended to "help" just adds more red tape and challenges to starting and/or running a business.
So we see fewer people starting their own businesses, and fewer jobs available. And the more that the Government tries to fix it all, the more likely they will just make a bigger mess. |
My Scrapn' Blog
Photographers are violent people. First they frame you, then they shoot you, then they hang you on the wall; but if you're real good, they will scrapbook you! | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 869
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:02:04 AM
labor costs have not risen proportionally with revenue in this sector. it is sad that people like mrstyler mock fast food workers for wanting a living wage.
as for undeclared tips, in many jurisdictions, tips are pooled and charged to the employees as a percentage of revenue - in which case, it is not possible to pocket the tips. | |
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LonghornMom
BucketHead
PeaNut 453,032
January 2010
Posts: 608
Layouts: 0
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:09:18 AM
While I don't know what the answer is, those of you who argue that these fast food workers should just go out and get a better job, I have question. How is that possible?
These people can't pay for college. If they found a way to go for free, they'd need programs like Medicaid and welfare, or how else would they live while they go to college. Isn't that something else most of you disagree with? Our government handing out money? You can't have it both ways. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 869
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:12:51 AM
it isn't possible. some peas live in a delusional ayn rand yes i can fantasy world. most interesting are those who are supported by their husbands. | |
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anmore
AncestralPea
PeaNut 56,372
November 2002
Posts: 4,894
Layouts: 0
Loc: Buffalo, NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:20:14 AM
I totally agree with scrapnnana.
NYCPea - I am in Buffalo NY, so we do not have the 3-4 star restaurants you would find in NYC. But in our higher end, do not bring the kid, non-chain restaurants I find there are a lot more cash tips are left for servers. I do taxes for many servers that work in these type of establishments so I have exposure to their income.
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NSBR: Not for sissies.
If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies! | |
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,976
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:40:17 PM
If they found a way to go for free, they'd need programs like Medicaid and welfare, or how else would they live while they go to college.
Where is it written you can't take college classes AND work a job. Millions do that. You take one or two classes at a time. You are working toward the goal of a better job, and often the learning from a class has application to make you a better employee where you are, even eligible for a promotion. Or it may qualify you for a job in your chosen field that is lower pay than you will ultimately be worth, but higher than the job you had.
It is not up to fast food restaurants, or any other business, to fix the problem that government has created with ill-equipped workers coming out of high schools and a regulatory environment that discourages small business startup and expansion.
For those who swear that economics is somehow "different" nowadays, the laws of supply and demand are always in effect. When there is high demand for a product, a smaller supply means higher prices. It is the market that determines the price based on demand and supply. Those laws are also in effect for the labor market. In areas where there are fewer people qualified or seeking a type of job, the pay is higher. I remember several years ago when the In n out opened where we lived. Unemployment was at about 4% in our area (yeah, those Bush tax cuts were just horrible, weren't they?  ) and to attract workers they paid $9 an hour, which was substantially above minimum. Even McD across the street was paying $8.75.
I just read that a hardware chain in the midwest can't find enough employees to work in their store in ND, so they are hiring people in Eau Claire where the corporate headquarters is, and flying them in and out of ND for week long shifts, where they work their 40 hours and then have a hotel provided to sleep. Those corporations - man, they are just so greedy 
The fact is that when there is a low supply and high demand, the wages go up, just like any other commodity. In little tiny towns where no one will leave because they have ties to the community, they compete for jobs at a pace that keeps wages low. If you want to beat the system, you have to either go where the supply of workers is more scarce, or upgrade your skills to a point where they are still needed but there aren't as many who have what you have. That's how our system works, or is supposed to.
Yanking the system around by insisting that people who have all the same skills, and can be replaced by dozens of other people waiting for the jobs, be paid ever higher wages for the same job, when the employers, again following the law of supply and demand cannot raise the price of the good or service because it's not worth that much to their customers, never, ever works, no matter how many times you say it should. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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angievp
Ideay pues?
PeaNut 143,106
April 2004
Posts: 6,689
Layouts: 36
Loc: Miami
| Posted: 12/1/2012 12:54:23 PM
Where is it written you can't take college classes AND work a job. Millions do that. You take one or two classes at a time. You are working toward the goal of a better job, and often the learning from a class has application to make you a better employee where you are, even eligible for a promotion. Or it may qualify you for a job in your chosen field that is lower pay than you will ultimately be worth, but higher than the job you had.
It's not written anywhere. However, that assumes that people who are adults working in fast food places have a support system that would enable them to actually go to school. Many do not. Many people are relegated by either their own personal limitations (i.e., learning disability) or circumstance to these low paying jobs. For many, "saving up" to go to school is just not possible, and often they aren't savvy enough to understand the ins and outs of applying for and getting financial aid (how many threads do we have here each year about college bound kids having no clue whatsoever how to fill out a FAFSA form and the peamothers doing it for them?) | |
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smilesnpeacesigns
PeaFixture
PeaNut 341,236
October 2007
Posts: 3,414
Layouts: 1
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 1:13:53 PM
If you want to earn more don't expect to have government force employers to pay more.. become pro active in getting job training, get a formal education, look for a better paying job.
I don't work in fast food, the reason why is because they are not hiring in our area. I would though if they would hire me. I normally work at a factory, but it closed and moved to Mexico, there are no other factories in my area. I am very quick with my hands, I can clean anything. I can not pass any classes in college. I tried, taking basic English, math, speaking, and basic data entry classes I flunked all of them except English, not for lack of trying I studied my butt off, listened in class, was tutored, I just could not do the work in Freshman College.
I am not lazy. I have ethics. I am kind. I do not *feed* off of the government. I would gladly pick shit off the side of the highway for minimum wage but I can not find a job.
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squillen
Tier 1 Baking Pea
PeaNut 133,550
February 2004
Posts: 39,550
Layouts: 321
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:16:44 PM
I'm not even sure half the people that work at our local fast food places are legal citizens.  |
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*Sara*
insert clever Pea Title here
PeaNut 36,466
April 2002
Posts: 7,400
Layouts: 80
Loc: upstate NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:18:08 PM
I also live in NYS (not in the greater NYC area), but I don't know anyone who pays for their meals in cash or tips with cash anymore. Most of us use plastic.
Moreover, rather than protesting at fast food restaurants, they should turn to their elected officials and request that NYS raise the minimum wage. There was actually a bill that passed the Assembly this past spring and was blocked in the Senate that would raise the NYS wage from $7.25 to $8.50. That is where they need to turn their attention. |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
Posts: 24,214
Layouts: 246
Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:31:40 PM
It makes me wonder how much of the burden would be taken off the government if some of these places started paying a living wage rather than the minimum wage.
It wouldn't change.
Increasing the wages would only cause inflation and costs of living to rise. People would still need help making ends meet. | |
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squillen
Tier 1 Baking Pea
PeaNut 133,550
February 2004
Posts: 39,550
Layouts: 321
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:43:02 PM
I'm not even sure half the people that work at our local fast food places are legal citizens.
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How do you know this?? Do they have and accent and dark skin? That must make them illegal.
What a nasty thing to say Squillen.
It's not a nasty thing to say if it's true. And I think it is. On more than three occasions I've asked an employee behind the counter (not the register person) for something and they had no idea what I was even asking. They didn't speak english and didn't understand english.
I know I'm just assuming here, but if you were born and raised in the US, and went to public school, you've learned english. *shrugs* |
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Mrs Smarty Pants
PEAing Like R. Kelly
PeaNut 180,865
December 2004
Posts: 13,439
Layouts: 0
Loc: Brooklyn, NY/Now Newark NJ
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:46:23 PM
I'm not even sure half the people that work at our local fast food places are legal citizens.
THIS is fucking disgusting.
If EVERYONE goes out and gets a higher education to get 'better' jobs, then who will be left to do the work no one wants to do?? How many "better" jobs are actually out there? I know way too many college graduates who are unemployed or working outside of their field.
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,976
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:46:47 PM
I don't work in fast food, the reason why is because they are not hiring in our area. I would though if they would hire me. I normally work at a factory, but it closed and moved to Mexico, there are no other factories in my area. I am very quick with my hands, I can clean anything. I can not pass any classes in college. I tried, taking basic English, math, speaking, and basic data entry classes I flunked all of them except English, not for lack of trying I studied my butt off, listened in class, was tutored, I just could not do the work in Freshman College.
I am not lazy. I have ethics. I am kind. I do not *feed* off of the government. I would gladly pick shit off the side of the highway for minimum wage but I can not find a job.
Well, maybe no one will pay you to pick that particular item off the side of the road, but I'd bet there are dog owners in your area who have more money than time or interest in cleaning up after their pet. I know there are where I live in dog city USA. People do actually make a business of cleaning up people's yards of that particular substance. Not glamorous, and you won't retire off of it, but it would give you some money and a job to list on a resume, as well as get you out to meet people who might keep you in mind when some other task or job opening comes up. Maybe you can build into cleaning houses or offices, cars, etc. Just a thought.
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"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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Mrs Smarty Pants
PEAing Like R. Kelly
PeaNut 180,865
December 2004
Posts: 13,439
Layouts: 0
Loc: Brooklyn, NY/Now Newark NJ
| Posted: 12/1/2012 1:48:52 PM
It's not a nasty thing to say if it's true. And I think it is. On more than three occasions I've asked an employee behind the counter (not the register person) for something and they had no idea what I was even asking. They didn't speak english and didn't understand english.
I know I'm just assuming here, but if you were born and raised in the US, and went to public school, you've learned english. *shrugs*
You're a fucking idiot.
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