Fast food worker protest to receive a decent wage
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 11/30/2012 by look4angel in NSBR Board
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MochasMom
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Posted: 12/1/2012 11:53:59 PM

Whether you like it or not it's happening and will continue to happen, so which is it? Do you want your taxes used as assistance, or do you think McDonald's should raise their wages? It's a simple question
Simple answer: neither. If the need is there; the worker can get a second job. How is that for a straight answer. Go ahead; argue it all you want; point to this poor soul or that poor soul as examples you may know. Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.
Some of you people are to damn busy being politically correct.


But Jasska Harris still makes the federal minimum wage -- $7.25 -- after five months on the job, and struggles to get even 35 hours a week
The above has to be my favorite sentence from your Yahoo Finance article. Wow, five whole months on the job and she hasn't gotten a raise. I would fire her ass for a comment like that.

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Posted: 12/1/2012 11:55:43 PM

I don't either. He put his life on the line for 7 years and signed a contract stating that he would serve in exchange for this benefit. I'm pretty sure some would consider that a trade and not a handout.




I agree. To those calling it government "assistance"-shame on you! These men and women put in the hard work, made huge sacrifices, and earned it! When was the last time you signed up to put your life on the line?

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Posted: 12/1/2012 11:55:59 PM
I for one think that corporations, regardless of how they were established, have a civic duty because they rarely internalize environmental and infrastructure costs. Ultimately they operate within the commons and should therefore be of use to society above their shareholders. The cost borne by society is far greater than any initial investment. Furthermore, most large corporations are publicly traded amalgamations of other companies. Modern corporations have little to do with the hard work and driving principles of their founders. In fact, founders are often booted out by the board of directors after the company is taken public.

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Posted: 12/1/2012 11:56:33 PM

The problem for him Sabrina is that he was willing to work, to take risks and to actually accept what he bargained for; he doesn't fit the liberal idea of the poor, down and out worker.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:04:29 AM

The OP seems to have a very difficult time grasping this concept. Apparently it is her belief that those who take the risks and start businesses and make them grow OWE it to her and others to give it to them at the terms they demand.

I don't have a problem grasping the concept of starting a business, or making a decent profit.

You however seem to have a problem grasping the concept that YOU are currently funding these families, because McDonald's refuses to raise their salaries so they are above the poverty line that let's them qualify for Republican/Democrat approved assistance, and you will continue to help fund these families, till their salaries increase.

Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place at this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.

So as long as McDonald's and companies like them pay below poverty wages, "YOU" the taxpayer are going to help subsidize their income. You can be mad at me if you want to, but those are the facts.

I didn't protest these workers got sick of it and started the protests on their own, so you are directing your anger at the wrong person, save it for McDonald's.



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SabrinaM
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:08:07 AM

Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.
Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases. I also know of several people who think that hard work is "beneath them."

We were travelling with family over the Thanksgiving break and stopped at Steak N Shake for lunch. Two guys got out of a truck and immediately went to work busting their humps washing the store windows. Not a glamorous job. Not a "fun" job by most standards. Certainly hard work if done correctly. My family and I sat there watching them as they looked over every inch after their job was complete to make sure it was done right. That is work ethic! My Mom went on to say that she works with a lady whose husband got laid off from his white collar job and then started his own business washing windows. He started out small with only a few stores and now is busier than he can handle on his own. He could have easily taken the path of least resistance and got in line for a handout. Instead, he tightened his boot straps and made his own way.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:13:12 AM
it's sad when we equate the hard work of small business owners with the entitled executives of large corporations many of whom weaseled their way up the ivory tower, many of whom benefited from favours, many of whom do not play by the rules, many of whom give themselves pay raises while the economy collapses around them, many of whom are misogynists. The province of Quebec has recently established a commission to look at corruption in the construction industry. This has led to arrests of CEOs and the resignation of mayors and it has only just begun. This kind of tribunal reveals just how entitled and insular those on top really are. If you think that American society is without a culture of financial and moral corruption among its executives then you are blind as a bat. A society is sick when it blames the poor and most vulnerable for its problems while making excuses for those least affected by 'outcomes'.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:15:20 AM

Whether you like it or not it's happening and will continue to happen, so which is it? Do you want your taxes used as assistance, or do you think McDonald's should raise their wages? It's a simple question
Simple answer: neither. If the need is there; the worker can get a second job. How is that for a straight answer. Go ahead; argue it all you want; point to this poor soul or that poor soul as examples you may know. Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.


I'm sure a great number of the employees at Walmart have a great work ethic and a sense of personal responsibility. I bet they'd like to work full-time and have benefits, too. And I'm sure they'd like to make a living wage at a single, 40 hour/week job. Isn't that the American Dream? To work hard and have some possible upward mobility, whether socially, financially, educationally, etc.?

You know what I would like, as a taxpayer? What the Walmart employee wants. Because Walmart makes $15 billion in profit, and they are costing the US taxpayer over $2.5 billion in food stamps. I would like Walmart to pay its employees the superstore equivalent of what my employer pays me--a living wage and health benefits. It will shave the profit margin to $12.5 billion. Wow.




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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:15:37 AM

Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place as this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.
Nope. Those types of jobs used to be held by teenagers and college-age students. They're not meant to be jobs that support a family. They're NOT a career path. They're a stepping stone.

I'm always amazed at how few people plan for their own futures but then expect the govn't to pick up the slack. People who are prospering and contributing to society aren't doing so by accident or by luck. It's not a lottery system where only the chosen few succeed.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:16:00 AM

Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases.


There have been lazy people in all generations. We latch on to anecdotes of the good ol' days, but for many there was no such thing. It takes all kinds, that's how it was and how it always will be.

MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:18:57 AM

I didn't protest these workers got sick of it and started the protests on their own, so you are directing your anger at the wrong person, save it for McDonald's.

Maybe they should channel their energies toward their own betterment instead of protests and making demands of higher wages. Maybe this country should start expecting them to shut up and work for their own behalf instead of expecting their demands to appeal to bleeding hearts to take up their cause.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:20:52 AM
How many of those who are sneering at these workers are wives who subsist in part or in full on their husbands incomes?

look4angel
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:24:35 AM

And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.

Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:27:31 AM
It's pretty hard to "better yourself" when you're working two or more minimum wage jobs, none of which offer health insurance because the companies deliberately won't give people enough hours to qualify. And then to find the money, not to mention the time, to go to college while juggling all that -- not to mention a family.

In THEORY I suppose it's possible starting from there, but if a series of poor decisions were made, or financial setbacks were had, and this is where they are now, it's really just hand-to-mouth at that point.

I've worked minimum wage jobs and they're some of the hardest jobs I've ever had -- not for the "lazy" at all.

I remember the day I first got a raise to double that of minimum wage. It kind of blew my mind that other people would have to work TWICE as many hours as I was to make what I was making.

Anyway, I really have little patience for people who spout off about what it's like to live as the working poor if they have never been in those shoes. I grew up among the working poor, and the "lazy" ones were few and far between.

I get a bit of the schadenfreude and think it would be interesting for those people to find themselves in that position and watch them try to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

Not everyone who is financially comfortable is there due to their own hard work. Sometimes luck and social position play into it. Sorry to burst that bubble. And, conversely, not everyone in a low-paying job is a lazy bum with no work ethic.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:11 AM

This statement is BEYOND reprehensible


it's reprehensible that a university education is so expensive that young people (who are disproportionately of low-income families) are compelled to join the army where they face death or they must kill.

MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:24 AM

There have been lazy people in all generations. We latch on to anecdotes of the good ol' days, but for many there was no such thing. It takes all kinds, that's how it was and how it always will be.
True and let them have at it. Just don't expect the American taxpayer to pay their bills and give them free cell phones. Cut some of those freebies and they may wake up and realize they have to buy their own coffee.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:34 AM

Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place as this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.
Nope. Those types of jobs used to be held by teenagers and college-age students. They're not meant to be jobs that support a family. They're NOT a career path. They're a stepping stone.


There's only one CEO per corporation. The notion that everyone is upwardly mobile is naive. Many low-wage workers will be low-wage workers for life, no matter hard they work. You know that.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:35 AM

Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger? They chose that path. Again, college or a trade profession isn't given to the lucky few.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:31:43 AM

free cell phones


the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:31:59 AM

It's pretty hard to "better yourself" when you're working two or more minimum wage jobs, none of which offer health insurance because the companies deliberately won't give people enough hours to qualify. And then to find the money, not to mention the time, to go to college while juggling all that -- not to mention a family.
Been there. Doing that! There IS a light at the end of this tunnel though. DH graduates in May-- Honors with an MBA in Finance. Woot!

I should clarify- he's no longer working min wage but did as a temporary fix while he was laid off.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:32:09 AM
I totally agree and it bears repeating.


Your husband is received part of his education on the G.I Bill, which is GOVERNMENT funded aka assistance, so you are also receiving those handouts.


This statement is BEYOND reprehensible. This man was paid a pittance to take bullets for a living, and because part of his compensation package is delayed and in the form of paying for his education later if he survives, you have the nerve to call it a HANDOUT?! By your definition, every government employee is getting a handout and government assistance because their paycheck is stamped US Treasury. Get over yourself.

Handouts and government assistance are what you get because you can't otherwise survive, and you are obligated to do nothing for them in return.

Student loans? Have to be paid back. Social security? Return of payments paid over the course of a worker's life (or their deceased parent's) GI Bill? Part of a soldier's compensation package. Not a government handout and I'm disgusted that you called it that.

SabrinaM, please thank your husband for his service. His GI Bill is well deserved and the least we can do to help someone who has taken time out of his life, and risked his life, to defend our freedom, to become equipped to join the workforce when his term of service is done. Some people DO understand what the GI Bill is about, and don't consider it a 'handout' for nothing.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:33:17 AM

You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger



According to government projections released last month, only three of the 30 occupations with the largest projected number of job openings by 2020 will require a bachelor’s degree or higher to fill the position — teachers, college professors and accountants. Most job openings are in professions such as retail sales, fast food and truck driving, jobs which aren’t easily replaced by computers.

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/one-in-two-new-college-graduates-i-jobless-or-underemployed/

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:35:28 AM

Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger? They chose that path. Again, college or a trade profession isn't given to the lucky few.


A lot of burger-flippers in San Francisco lost their jobs and these are the only jobs they could get. There are people with years of higher education flipping burgers.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:38:06 AM
Thank you!


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:39:14 AM
Mrs_Tyler, I know that you are a geography teacher. It's sad because I work among professional geographers and they would be ashamed by you since geography has come to be one of the more liberal and progressive academic disciplines.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:40:26 AM


A lot of burger-flippers in San Francisco lost their jobs and these are the only jobs they could get. There are people with years of higher education flipping burgers.
YES! What's Obama's plan to fix that? I didn't hear anything concrete while he was campaigning. I'm being 100% serious, not snarky.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:43:23 AM

Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
Stop making it seem as though this is a hugely pervasive problem. Of the 73.9 million hourly workers; 59,490 million are over age 25. Of that 59,490 million; 3.2% are paid at or below minimum wage. See Table 7 from the Bureau of Labor website.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:45:53 AM
I'd be curious to see some stats on what percentage of people working minimum wage jobs have college degrees. Off the top of my head, I know at least three personally.

Krispy Kreme is about to reopen in our town, and several of my friends are going to apply. They're college-educated and in their late '30s or early '40s.

My college-educated husband who was laid off from his career job after 15+ years now works at a grocery store and every day he's approached by people we know casually who are interested in getting hired there. Of course, they usually throw in some barb like it's beneath them or their last resort.

Anyway, I think if the low-paying jobs would give a full 40-hour week and good health insurance it wouldn't be such an issue. Then they would have a better chance at having the time or money to get ahead via other avenues (additional education, second job, less medical debt, etc.)

The thing about the high number of Wal-Mart workers who have to be on public assistance (including medical) just makes me sick.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:47:09 AM

There's only one CEO per corporation. The notion that everyone is upwardly mobile is naive. Many low-wage workers will be low-wage workers for life, no matter hard they work. You know that.
That's exactly the type of mentality that keeps someone a low-wage worker. "I'll never be anything more than I am so why work any harder?" Just because Bob Jones is the CEO of XYZ corp that doesn't mean that he's preventing someone else from being successful. I can guarantee that there are a LOT of people that make more than we do. They're not preventing us from being wealthy. Only we can change that.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:47:41 AM

YES! What's Obama's plan to fix that? I didn't hear anything concrete while he was campaigning. I'm being 100% serious, not snarky.


Didn't Romney say that governments don't create jobs? Guess he didn't have a plan, either.

I'm not saying the government should create jobs, but I do think that there should be regulations on living wages. The government should not be subsidizing corporate employees. If you're employed you should be able to subsist. That way you wouldn't need that second and third job and those could go to someone who has none.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:49:57 AM

it's reprehensible that a university education is so expensive that young people (who are disproportionately of low-income families) are compelled to join the army where they face death or they must kill.

Reprehensible are the ones walking around on the college campus having been given a free ride while also getting a stipend simply because they are low income; then turning around and dropping their classes after getting their checks. Oh yes it is happening at every single college campus.

As for your comment below. Yes there are more free cell phones walking around than I care to know about and I don't give a damn who gave it to them. You brought that person into the topic.

free cell phones


the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:52:28 AM

My college-educated husband who was laid off from his career job after 15+ years now works at a grocery store and every day he's approached by people we know casually who are interested in getting hired there. Of course, they usually throw in some barb like it's beneath them or their last resort.
DH and I were in the same position. He's underemployed and working at a job that doesn't require an education of any type. He didn't want to work at a "job" for the rest of his life. He wanted/needed a career to be able to provide the standard of living we want. He regrouped and went back to school for another career path. He was a programmer/BS in IT until the tech market crashed. He's since gone back to school for an MBA in Finance.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:53:15 AM

You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger? They chose that path. Again, college or a trade profession isn't given to the lucky few.

Have you read through this whole thread? Because we have already discussed that trade schools have almost vanished, and there are always going to be some individuals who though no fault of their own could not pass a college course?

It doesn't matter how many of these people go out and get a college education, there is ALWAYS going to be someone working for below poverty wages at McDonald's until McDonald's raises it's wages. Until then "YOU" the tax payer are already funding those families through food stamps, healthcare, and housing.

So we are back to "you" or McDonald's, who do you want to fund these families?

I think someone out busting their ass deserves a wage they can live on, without drawing benefits from the government. While the company they work for rakes in 130% profit margins, in the middle of a recession.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:55:16 AM
peapermint: The answer to your question is 2.2% have a bachelor's or higher and are working at federal minimum wage or below. See Table 6 for 2011. Bureau of Labor Statistics

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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:56:32 AM


If others want the same grants let them give the same service. Of course, the ones who "demand" the most and complain the most are usually the ones unwilling to actually "give" something in return for what they're demanding.


There are plenty of people who for health reasons are not permitted to join the military. I have epilepsy; I'm one of them. I know--I tried. Such people do not have access to programs like the GI bill, and it's not a matter of "unwillingness to serve." It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:57:40 AM
Thanks for the stats.


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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:59:23 AM

There's only one CEO per corporation. The notion that everyone is upwardly mobile is naive. Many low-wage workers will be low-wage workers for life, no matter hard they work. You know that.
That's exactly the type of mentality that keeps someone a low-wage worker. "I'll never be anything more than I am so why work any harder?" Just because Bob Jones is the CEO of XYZ corp that doesn't mean that he's preventing someone else from being successful. I can guarantee that there are a LOT of people that make more than we do. They're not preventing us from being wealthy. Only we can change that.



I'm not saying it's the low-wage workers mentality that they can't get ahead. I'm saying from the outside looking in, if there are 74 million hourly workers it is highly likely that a large percentage of them will remain in similar positions.

I believe a lot of them ARE working. VERY HARD.

I am not going to judge someone who is working full-time at McDonald's because the truth is, in many respects, she does work harder than I do. He or she has stress that I don't have, one of them being that I don't have to figure out how to survive on minimum wage.



look4angel
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:02:09 AM

Anyway, I think if the low-paying jobs would give a full 40-hour week and good health insurance it wouldn't be such an issue. Then they would have a better chance at having the time or money to get ahead via other avenues (additional education, second job, less medical debt, etc.)

The thing about the high number of Wal-Mart workers who have to be on public assistance (including medical) just makes me sick.

This is SO TRUE! Most people I know working these jobs want to support themselves, and would give anything to be off all assistance, but when low wage jobs are all that are available, then they have little or no choice, if they want a roof over their head and food for their children.


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MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:02:34 AM

there are 74 million hourly workers
That is not the number of hourly workers making federal minimum wage or below. Of that 74M; 3.8 million are at or below federal minimum wage. That is 5.2% of hourly workers.

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:06:47 AM

there are 74 million hourly workers
That is not the number of hourly workers making federal minimum wage or below. Of that 74M; 3.8 million are at or below federal minimum wage. That is 5.2% of hourly workers.



Yes. I said 74 million hourly workers--not 74 million low wage workers. I said hourly specifically because even if they are making above minimum, they often are not working full-time and/or benefitted.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:12:56 AM
regarding GI Bill, I know when I was in (granted, I joined in 1997) we had to PAY into the program, it was $100 a month for 12 months. and that hurt as an Airman Basic making $900 a month, until we were promoted to Airman and make $1100 a month. AND, if you are discharged before 3 years, you don't qualify for the bill. Again, this was back when I was in, and I was medically discharged at 2 years, 11 months and 22 days. I'm not sure how the program has changed over the years since neither myself nor my dh qualified for it. and the amount of money you get from the GI Bill is NOT that much.

MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:15:23 AM
60.58% are working 40 hours or more. Table 9.

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:22:18 AM

60.58% are working 40 hours or more. Table 9.


I just looked at your charts.

Those stats are from 2006. That is before the crash. I believe those figures are grossly inaccurate.



MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:26:11 AM
Table 9. Employed wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the prevailing Federal minimum wage by usual hours worked on primary job, 2011 annual averages

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:41:05 AM

Table 9. Employed wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the prevailing Federal minimum wage by usual hours worked on primary job, 2011 annual averages


I found the 2011 charts.

You're still looking at 30 million people not working full-time, and many of them on government subsidies.

It goes back to the question of whether you want companies to pay fair wages or you, the taxpayer, to make up the difference. Before you launch into the they-could-work-three-jobs line, remember that the risk for a significant health crisis is probably double or triple someone working one AND many are un- or under-insured.

There are significant social and financial costs of not providing living wages.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:44:05 AM
While I believe some people who are working part time chose too, I'd say the majority of them would rather have full time employment, with benefits, so that they could get off of government aid if at all possible. I don't think anyone working, chooses to be part of the "working poor".



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MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:47:39 AM

You're still looking at 30 million people not working full-time, and many of them on government subsidies.


That is true but that 30 million are hourly workers but that number is not the number of those hourly workers who are making federal minimum wage or below.

MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:50:39 AM

It goes back to the question of whether you want companies to pay fair wages or you, the taxpayer, to make up the difference.
I answered that question but will add that I do not believe companies are paying unfairly as in the case that has been used numerous times here..McDonalds.


MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 1:52:54 AM
One statistic I would like to see would be of the 5.2% of hourly workers who make at or below the federal minimum wage; how many are part of a 2 income household? The assumption here tends to be that they are the sole supporter.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:02:20 AM

One statistic I would like to see would be of the 5.2% of hourly workers who make at or below the federal minimum wage; how many are part of a 2 income household? The assumption here tends to be that they are the sole supporter.

Should it make a difference if they are a sole supporter or not? Don't they deserve a living wage, regardless? So what if they have a husband, or a roommate, if they as a family still fall under the poverty level, then the tax payer is still subsidizing their income.
That 5.2 sounds little but doesn't it end up being 3.8 million people?
That is a lot of people who are barely surviving, and still working. It's shameful in a country like ours.


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