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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
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 |  Posted: 12/1/2012 11:35:28 PM
I don't see it as an "either or"; force business to pay more or the taxpayer gets the shaft.. No, the government should not be handing out money and no, private industry should not be obligated to pay in accordance with anything but what the market will bear.
And why the hell should a private entity or the government pay people for having babies (as suggested by someone who feels salaries should be based on family size). If you can't afford a family, don't have one. You don't have a "right" to have people pay for your lifestyle choices.
Every big corporation began as a small business. People worked their butts off and risked everything they had to get these entities up and running. They don't "owe" anyone anything just because their hard work paid off and they've grown. Yeah, life is hard; starting a business is hard; getting an education is hard. Still doesn't mean anyone is "entitled" to any of these things or to have anyone else give it to them. People don't want to take the risks but boy they're sure do demand, don't they?
Whole lot of entitlement going on. A whole lot of "if you have it and I need it, you damn well better give it to me." Disgusting.
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
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 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:38:58 PM
Right out of high school joined the military to qualify for the GI Bill. That paid for some of his BS degree in computer science.
Here is where your husband received government assistance. To the best of my knowledge G.I Bills are GRANTS, not loans, there fore they don't get repaid. |
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angievp
Ideay pues?
PeaNut 143,106
April 2004
Posts: 6,643
Layouts: 36
Loc: Miami
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:39:01 PM
Prior to Obama his loans were a combination of subsidized and non-subsidized. Regardless, a student loan is NOT a handout just as your mortgage or car loan isn't a handout
The difference is, your car loan and/or your mortgage aren't being subsidized by the federal government. So, yes, it is a form of handout. | |
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
Layouts: 16
Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:40:17 PM
Well, I for one have no problem with giving a grant to someone who puts his/her life on the line for this country.
If others want the same grants let them give the same service. Of course, the ones who "demand" the most and complain the most are usually the ones unwilling to actually "give" something in return for what they're demanding.
And what's with the swearing, Ms Smarty Pants...this isn't the ghetto. Please try to remember that. |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,744
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Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:42:15 PM
I don't see it as an "either or"; force business to pay more or the taxpayer gets the shaft.. No, the government should not be handing out money and no, private industry should not be obligated to pay in accordance with anything but what the market will bear.
Whether you like it or not it's happening and will continue to happen, so which is it? Do you want your taxes used as assistance, or do you think McDonald's should raise their wages? It's a simple question. |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,744
Layouts: 181
Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:45:17 PM
Well, I for one have no problem with giving a grant to someone who puts his/her life on the line for this country.
If others want the same grants let them give the same service. Of course, the ones who "demand" the most and complain the most are usually the ones unwilling to actually "give" something in return for what they're demanding.
I have lived on a military bases, or was married to a military man from age 6, to 39, I think I spent my time serving our country, how about you? |
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
Layouts: 16
Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:45:20 PM
No, it's not a simple question. My answer is "neither". And as long as the Republicans hold at least one house of Congress, I don't think your statement of "its happening whether you like it or not" is accurate.
No body owes you or anyone else anything. |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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jodster70
To the right, To the right
PeaNut 51,257
October 2002
Posts: 5,567
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Loc: Usually NSBR, an un"pea"dictable place :)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:45:55 PM
To start a business, you have to risk your money and your time. To succeed in business, you have to not only work hard, but have the business savvy and ingenuity to succeed.
I honestly can't understand why people who take a job making minimum wage think that they are owed more than what they agreed to work for.
It's not that I don't feel for people who make low wages. I do. I have close relatives who barely scrape by every month and it breaks my heart seeing what they go through.
In spite of that, I still believe it's the people who take the risks to start the business that should reap the benefits of success. I do believe that people should be rewarded for hard work and should be given a fair wage, but that wage is determined by the type of work that you do unfortunately. |
**Jody**
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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Layouts: 2
 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:45:57 PM
SO which is it, you want companies to pay decent wages for employees, or do "YOU" want to pay those workers by subsidizing them with government "handouts" as you like to put it? If handouts are your choice, the stop complaining when your taxes go up. Because one of the two is going to happen, you chose..
Why does it have to be either/or?
Handouts should be an exception rather than the norm. I DO think we need to be caring for our mentally challenged (forgive me if that's no longer the proper term). I DO think we need to be caring for our terminally ill and disabled. I also have personally seen where there is a LOT of abuse and waste that goes on and this needs to stop. A "single mom" who lives with a partner who makes $65K should NOT be able to qualify for public assistance but I know for a fact that it's a huge issue and one of the many examples of waste that needs to be addressed.
My personal impression from those that I have seen in my life-- the more someone else (government, parents, school etc) does FOR them the less inclined they are to do for THEMSELVES. It's far too easy to take the path of least resistance, isn't it?
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
Layouts: 16
Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:46:20 PM
Then you were entitled to take advantage of the GI bill. Those who haven't served, including me, were not. I'm not moaning and crying about how unfair things are; you are. And yes, your dd was lucky to have you watch her kids. But you're her family; YOU should have been doing that rather than all the rest of us. |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
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| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:48:20 PM
No, it's not a simple question. My answer is "neither". And as long as the Republicans hold at least one house of Congress, I don't think your statement of "its happening whether you like it or not" is accurate.
No body owes you or anyone else anything.
That is where you are wrong, these workers are ALREADY receiving these benefits, because they fall beneath the guidelines for poverty, which were set long before President Obama was in office, and even under Republican Presidents, so your Republican Congress is not stopping the funding, sorry, so you still have the same two choices. McDonalds or you. |
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
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Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:48:55 PM
In spite of that, I still believe it's the people who take the risks to start the business that should reap the benefits of success. I do believe that people should be rewarded for hard work and should be given a fair wage, but that wage is determined by the type of work that you do unfortunately.
The OP seems to have a very difficult time grasping this concept. Apparently it is her belief that those who take the risks and start businesses and make them grow OWE it to her and others to give it to them at the terms they demand. |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
Layouts: 16
Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:48:57 PM
In spite of that, I still believe it's the people who take the risks to start the business that should reap the benefits of success. I do believe that people should be rewarded for hard work and should be given a fair wage, but that wage is determined by the type of work that you do unfortunately.
The OP seems to have a very difficult time grasping this concept. Apparently it is her belief that those who take the risks and start businesses and make them grow OWE it to her and others to give it to them at the terms they demand. |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
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| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:49:06 PM
Well, I for one have no problem with giving a grant to someone who puts his/her life on the line for this country.
I don't either. He put his life on the line for 7 years and signed a contract stating that he would serve in exchange for this benefit. I'm pretty sure some would consider that a trade and not a handout.  |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803
PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 29,619
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Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)
| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:50:58 PM
The problem for him Sabrina is that he was willing to work, to take risks and to actually accept what he bargained for; he doesn't fit the liberal idea of the poor, down and out worker. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the OP doesn't come up with some reason why she feels he had it "easier" than others |
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
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| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:53:59 PM
Whether you like it or not it's happening and will continue to happen, so which is it? Do you want your taxes used as assistance, or do you think McDonald's should raise their wages? It's a simple question
Simple answer: neither. If the need is there; the worker can get a second job. How is that for a straight answer. Go ahead; argue it all you want; point to this poor soul or that poor soul as examples you may know. Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.
Some of you people are to damn busy being politically correct.
But Jasska Harris still makes the federal minimum wage -- $7.25 -- after five months on the job, and struggles to get even 35 hours a week
The above has to be my favorite sentence from your Yahoo Finance article. Wow, five whole months on the job and she hasn't gotten a raise. I would fire her ass for a comment like that. | |
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rachelrainbow
PeaNut
PeaNut 469,839
May 2010
Posts: 207
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 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:55:43 PM
I don't either. He put his life on the line for 7 years and signed a contract stating that he would serve in exchange for this benefit. I'm pretty sure some would consider that a trade and not a handout.
I agree. To those calling it government "assistance"-shame on you! These men and women put in the hard work, made huge sacrifices, and earned it! When was the last time you signed up to put your life on the line? | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
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April 2012
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 | Posted: 12/1/2012 11:55:59 PM
I for one think that corporations, regardless of how they were established, have a civic duty because they rarely internalize environmental and infrastructure costs. Ultimately they operate within the commons and should therefore be of use to society above their shareholders. The cost borne by society is far greater than any initial investment. Furthermore, most large corporations are publicly traded amalgamations of other companies. Modern corporations have little to do with the hard work and driving principles of their founders. In fact, founders are often booted out by the board of directors after the company is taken public. | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
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| Posted: 12/1/2012 11:56:33 PM
The problem for him Sabrina is that he was willing to work, to take risks and to actually accept what he bargained for; he doesn't fit the liberal idea of the poor, down and out worker.
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
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March 2005
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 | Posted: 12/2/2012 12:00:56 AM
I don't think of a GI Bill as a government handout or assistance at all. It isn't just given out to anyone. You have to make a commitment and serve your country and go where they send you and put your life on the line. The GI Bill helps to make up for the crappy wages we pay our military men and women.
Anyone could certainly get in on that GI bill thing... But they'd have to enlist and serve. If you hate your wages working at McDonalds, you certainly have the option to enlist in the military. If you're unwilling to do that, then you'll have to figure out another way to get out of fast food. Nobody owes you better wages that can't be supported by market demands. | |
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:04:29 AM
The OP seems to have a very difficult time grasping this concept. Apparently it is her belief that those who take the risks and start businesses and make them grow OWE it to her and others to give it to them at the terms they demand.
I don't have a problem grasping the concept of starting a business, or making a decent profit.
You however seem to have a problem grasping the concept that YOU are currently funding these families, because McDonald's refuses to raise their salaries so they are above the poverty line that let's them qualify for Republican/Democrat approved assistance, and you will continue to help fund these families, till their salaries increase.
Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place at this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.
So as long as McDonald's and companies like them pay below poverty wages, "YOU" the taxpayer are going to help subsidize their income. You can be mad at me if you want to, but those are the facts.
I didn't protest these workers got sick of it and started the protests on their own, so you are directing your anger at the wrong person, save it for McDonald's.
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
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August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:08:07 AM
Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.
Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases.  I also know of several people who think that hard work is "beneath them."
We were travelling with family over the Thanksgiving break and stopped at Steak N Shake for lunch. Two guys got out of a truck and immediately went to work busting their humps washing the store windows. Not a glamorous job. Not a "fun" job by most standards. Certainly hard work if done correctly. My family and I sat there watching them as they looked over every inch after their job was complete to make sure it was done right. That is work ethic! My Mom went on to say that she works with a lady whose husband got laid off from his white collar job and then started his own business washing windows. He started out small with only a few stores and now is busier than he can handle on his own. He could have easily taken the path of least resistance and got in line for a handout. Instead, he tightened his boot straps and made his own way. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 856
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:13:12 AM
it's sad when we equate the hard work of small business owners with the entitled executives of large corporations many of whom weaseled their way up the ivory tower, many of whom benefited from favours, many of whom do not play by the rules, many of whom give themselves pay raises while the economy collapses around them, many of whom are misogynists. The province of Quebec has recently established a commission to look at corruption in the construction industry. This has led to arrests of CEOs and the resignation of mayors and it has only just begun. This kind of tribunal reveals just how entitled and insular those on top really are. If you think that American society is without a culture of financial and moral corruption among its executives then you are blind as a bat. A society is sick when it blames the poor and most vulnerable for its problems while making excuses for those least affected by 'outcomes'. | |
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mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.
PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
Posts: 10,943
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Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:15:20 AM
Whether you like it or not it's happening and will continue to happen, so which is it? Do you want your taxes used as assistance, or do you think McDonald's should raise their wages? It's a simple question
Simple answer: neither. If the need is there; the worker can get a second job. How is that for a straight answer. Go ahead; argue it all you want; point to this poor soul or that poor soul as examples you may know. Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.
I'm sure a great number of the employees at Walmart have a great work ethic and a sense of personal responsibility. I bet they'd like to work full-time and have benefits, too. And I'm sure they'd like to make a living wage at a single, 40 hour/week job. Isn't that the American Dream? To work hard and have some possible upward mobility, whether socially, financially, educationally, etc.?
You know what I would like, as a taxpayer? What the Walmart employee wants. Because Walmart makes $15 billion in profit, and they are costing the US taxpayer over $2.5 billion in food stamps. I would like Walmart to pay its employees the superstore equivalent of what my employer pays me--a living wage and health benefits. It will shave the profit margin to $12.5 billion. Wow.
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:15:37 AM
Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place as this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.
Nope. Those types of jobs used to be held by teenagers and college-age students. They're not meant to be jobs that support a family. They're NOT a career path. They're a stepping stone.
I'm always amazed at how few people plan for their own futures but then expect the govn't to pick up the slack. People who are prospering and contributing to society aren't doing so by accident or by luck. It's not a lottery system where only the chosen few succeed. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 856
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:16:00 AM
Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases.
There have been lazy people in all generations. We latch on to anecdotes of the good ol' days, but for many there was no such thing. It takes all kinds, that's how it was and how it always will be. | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:18:57 AM
I didn't protest these workers got sick of it and started the protests on their own, so you are directing your anger at the wrong person, save it for McDonald's.
Maybe they should channel their energies toward their own betterment instead of protests and making demands of higher wages. Maybe this country should start expecting them to shut up and work for their own behalf instead of expecting their demands to appeal to bleeding hearts to take up their cause. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:20:52 AM
How many of those who are sneering at these workers are wives who subsist in part or in full on their husbands incomes? | |
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,787
Layouts: 0
Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:24:30 AM
Your husband is received part of his education on the G.I Bill, which is GOVERNMENT funded aka assistance, so you are also receiving those handouts.
This statement is BEYOND reprehensible. This man was paid a pittance to take bullets for a living, and because part of his compensation package is delayed and in the form of paying for his education later if he survives, you have the nerve to call it a HANDOUT?! By your definition, every government employee is getting a handout and government assistance because their paycheck is stamped US Treasury. Get over yourself.
Handouts and government assistance are what you get because you presumably can't otherwise survive, and you are obligated to do nothing for them in return. Not take bullets, risk capture and torture or a gruesome death, leave your family for long periods of time knowing you may never see them again in this life.
Student loans? Have to be paid back. Social security? Return of payments paid over the course of a worker's life (or their deceased parent's) GI Bill? Part of a soldier's compensation package. Not a government handout and I'm disgusted that you called it that.
SabrinaM, please thank your husband for his service. His GI Bill is well deserved and well EARNED, and the least we can do to help someone who has taken time out of his life, and risked his life, to defend our freedom, to become equipped to join the workforce when his term of service is done. Some people DO understand what the GI Bill is about, and don't consider it a 'handout' for nothing. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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look4angel
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 49,444
September 2002
Posts: 2,744
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Loc: Tn
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:24:35 AM
And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE! |
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peapermint
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 9,321
January 2001
Posts: 8,597
Layouts: 0
Loc: all up in your business
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:27:31 AM
It's pretty hard to "better yourself" when you're working two or more minimum wage jobs, none of which offer health insurance because the companies deliberately won't give people enough hours to qualify. And then to find the money, not to mention the time, to go to college while juggling all that -- not to mention a family.
In THEORY I suppose it's possible starting from there, but if a series of poor decisions were made, or financial setbacks were had, and this is where they are now, it's really just hand-to-mouth at that point.
I've worked minimum wage jobs and they're some of the hardest jobs I've ever had -- not for the "lazy" at all.
I remember the day I first got a raise to double that of minimum wage. It kind of blew my mind that other people would have to work TWICE as many hours as I was to make what I was making.
Anyway, I really have little patience for people who spout off about what it's like to live as the working poor if they have never been in those shoes. I grew up among the working poor, and the "lazy" ones were few and far between.
I get a bit of the schadenfreude and think it would be interesting for those people to find themselves in that position and watch them try to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."
Not everyone who is financially comfortable is there due to their own hard work. Sometimes luck and social position play into it. Sorry to burst that bubble. And, conversely, not everyone in a low-paying job is a lazy bum with no work ethic. | |
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 856
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:11 AM
This statement is BEYOND reprehensible
it's reprehensible that a university education is so expensive that young people (who are disproportionately of low-income families) are compelled to join the army where they face death or they must kill. | |
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,670
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:24 AM
There have been lazy people in all generations. We latch on to anecdotes of the good ol' days, but for many there was no such thing. It takes all kinds, that's how it was and how it always will be.
True and let them have at it. Just don't expect the American taxpayer to pay their bills and give them free cell phones. Cut some of those freebies and they may wake up and realize they have to buy their own coffee. | |
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mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.
PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
Posts: 10,943
Layouts: 14
Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:34 AM
Even if they did go get additional education, and leave that job. Someone else would take their place as this same low wage job and then you would again be subsidizing their income with government assistance.
Nope. Those types of jobs used to be held by teenagers and college-age students. They're not meant to be jobs that support a family. They're NOT a career path. They're a stepping stone.
There's only one CEO per corporation. The notion that everyone is upwardly mobile is naive. Many low-wage workers will be low-wage workers for life, no matter hard they work. You know that. |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:29:35 AM
Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger? They chose that path. Again, college or a trade profession isn't given to the lucky few. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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obliolait
BucketHead
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April 2012
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:31:43 AM
free cell phones
the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in. | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
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August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:31:59 AM
It's pretty hard to "better yourself" when you're working two or more minimum wage jobs, none of which offer health insurance because the companies deliberately won't give people enough hours to qualify. And then to find the money, not to mention the time, to go to college while juggling all that -- not to mention a family.
Been there. Doing that! There IS a light at the end of this tunnel though. DH graduates in May-- Honors with an MBA in Finance. Woot! 
I should clarify- he's no longer working min wage but did as a temporary fix while he was laid off. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:32:09 AM
I totally agree and it bears repeating.
Your husband is received part of his education on the G.I Bill, which is GOVERNMENT funded aka assistance, so you are also receiving those handouts.
This statement is BEYOND reprehensible. This man was paid a pittance to take bullets for a living, and because part of his compensation package is delayed and in the form of paying for his education later if he survives, you have the nerve to call it a HANDOUT?! By your definition, every government employee is getting a handout and government assistance because their paycheck is stamped US Treasury. Get over yourself.
Handouts and government assistance are what you get because you can't otherwise survive, and you are obligated to do nothing for them in return.
Student loans? Have to be paid back. Social security? Return of payments paid over the course of a worker's life (or their deceased parent's) GI Bill? Part of a soldier's compensation package. Not a government handout and I'm disgusted that you called it that.
SabrinaM, please thank your husband for his service. His GI Bill is well deserved and the least we can do to help someone who has taken time out of his life, and risked his life, to defend our freedom, to become equipped to join the workforce when his term of service is done. Some people DO understand what the GI Bill is about, and don't consider it a 'handout' for nothing.
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:33:17 AM
You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger
According to government projections released last month, only three of the 30 occupations with the largest projected number of job openings by 2020 will require a bachelor’s degree or higher to fill the position — teachers, college professors and accountants. Most job openings are in professions such as retail sales, fast food and truck driving, jobs which aren’t easily replaced by computers.
http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/one-in-two-new-college-graduates-i-jobless-or-underemployed/ | |
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mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.
PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
Posts: 10,943
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Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:35:28 AM
Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
You do realize that they didn't just wake up one day 28 years old flipping a burger? They chose that path. Again, college or a trade profession isn't given to the lucky few.
A lot of burger-flippers in San Francisco lost their jobs and these are the only jobs they could get. There are people with years of higher education flipping burgers. |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
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Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:36:37 AM
How many of those who are sneering at these workers are wives who subsist in part or in full on their husbands incomes?
This is an ass-hole assumption- one that I've noticed you have made more than once. Some of us make more than our husbands and have paid our own way through college for multiple degrees. Others i recognize aren't even married. Just because we are women on a crafting site doesn't mean we don't earn wages and support our families and that we sit around eating Bon bond as stay at home moms while our big strong man brings home the bacon.  | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:38:06 AM
 Thank you! |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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obliolait
BucketHead
PeaNut 550,788
April 2012
Posts: 856
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:39:14 AM
Mrs_Tyler, I know that you are a geography teacher. It's sad because I work among professional geographers and they would be ashamed by you since geography has come to be one of the more liberal and progressive academic disciplines. | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:40:26 AM
A lot of burger-flippers in San Francisco lost their jobs and these are the only jobs they could get. There are people with years of higher education flipping burgers.
YES! What's Obama's plan to fix that? I didn't hear anything concrete while he was campaigning. I'm being 100% serious, not snarky. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,670
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:43:23 AM
Sorry these are not "teenagers" the average worker's age is 28. Do you seriously think it's every 28 year old's dream to be flipping burgers at McDonald's? No, they are there BECAUSE they are TRYING to make a living. My guess is it would be much easier for them to sit on their ass at home, and not try to work, then you'd really be mad at them. These people are making an effort to support themselves, doing work most would find beneath them, and yet it's all their fault! SURE!
Stop making it seem as though this is a hugely pervasive problem. Of the 73.9 million hourly workers; 59,490 million are over age 25. Of that 59,490 million; 3.2% are paid at or below minimum wage. See Table 7 from the Bureau of Labor website. | |
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Mrs_Tyler
Sorting Laundry
PeaNut 197,836
March 2005
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Loc: Enjoying the humid continental climate zone.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:45:20 AM
Oblio, I'm a Social Studies teacher- there are many courses that I am licensed to teach. And I don't give a crap if "professional" geographers tend to be liberal and would be ashamed of me. I'm an educated person and can think for myself. I don't need a bunch of geographers or anyone else telling me how to think.
I know you're ethnically Jewish but consistently post hateful and nasty things about Israel and Jews. Your hypocrisy should make you ashamed of yourself. | |
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peapermint
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 9,321
January 2001
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Loc: all up in your business
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:45:53 AM
I'd be curious to see some stats on what percentage of people working minimum wage jobs have college degrees. Off the top of my head, I know at least three personally.
Krispy Kreme is about to reopen in our town, and several of my friends are going to apply. They're college-educated and in their late '30s or early '40s.
My college-educated husband who was laid off from his career job after 15+ years now works at a grocery store and every day he's approached by people we know casually who are interested in getting hired there. Of course, they usually throw in some barb like it's beneath them or their last resort.
Anyway, I think if the low-paying jobs would give a full 40-hour week and good health insurance it wouldn't be such an issue. Then they would have a better chance at having the time or money to get ahead via other avenues (additional education, second job, less medical debt, etc.)
The thing about the high number of Wal-Mart workers who have to be on public assistance (including medical) just makes me sick. | |
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SabrinaM
Proud Member of THE MOB
PeaNut 5,735
August 2000
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| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:47:09 AM
There's only one CEO per corporation. The notion that everyone is upwardly mobile is naive. Many low-wage workers will be low-wage workers for life, no matter hard they work. You know that.
That's exactly the type of mentality that keeps someone a low-wage worker. "I'll never be anything more than I am so why work any harder?" Just because Bob Jones is the CEO of XYZ corp that doesn't mean that he's preventing someone else from being successful. I can guarantee that there are a LOT of people that make more than we do. They're not preventing us from being wealthy. Only we can change that. |
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Sabrina
Recession: When your neighbor loses his job
Depression: When you lose yours
Recovery: When Obama loses his
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mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.
PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
Posts: 10,943
Layouts: 14
Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:47:41 AM
YES! What's Obama's plan to fix that? I didn't hear anything concrete while he was campaigning. I'm being 100% serious, not snarky.
Didn't Romney say that governments don't create jobs? Guess he didn't have a plan, either.
I'm not saying the government should create jobs, but I do think that there should be regulations on living wages. The government should not be subsidizing corporate employees. If you're employed you should be able to subsist. That way you wouldn't need that second and third job and those could go to someone who has none.
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MochasMom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 146,383
May 2004
Posts: 5,670
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 12/2/2012 12:49:57 AM
it's reprehensible that a university education is so expensive that young people (who are disproportionately of low-income families) are compelled to join the army where they face death or they must kill.
Reprehensible are the ones walking around on the college campus having been given a free ride while also getting a stipend simply because they are low income; then turning around and dropping their classes after getting their checks. Oh yes it is happening at every single college campus.
As for your comment below. Yes there are more free cell phones walking around than I care to know about and I don't give a damn who gave it to them. You brought that person into the topic.
free cell phones
the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in.
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