Fast food worker protest to receive a decent wage
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 11/30/2012 by look4angel in NSBR Board
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MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:06:04 AM

So what if they have a husband, or a roommate, if they as a family still fall under the poverty level, then the tax payer is still subsidizing their income.

Well actually not all would then fall under the federal poverty level. And that number could be very difficult to figure out. Would probably have to come from the IRS and they are not as current with their statistics as the Bureau of Labor.

MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:09:35 AM
What I find shameful is the people who are not working and often doing better than the group we have been discussing by living off the system. Way too late for me to research that one.

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:20:29 AM

What I find shameful is the people who are not working and often doing better than the group we have been discussing by living off the system.


I actually find it more shameful that people work 2 or 3 jobs and still have to get public assistance and don't have healthcare. I am much more concerned about them than the people who aren't doing anything. I can't imagine anything more demoralizing than the financial treadmill they are on and the tightrope they are walking every single day.

"Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich or "The Working Poor: On Not Getting By in America" by David Shipler are both highly readable and eye-opening books on this topic.



MochasMom
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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:27:54 AM

I actually find it more shameful that people work 2 or 3 jobs and still have to get public assistance and don't have healthcare. I am much more concerned about them than the people who aren't doing anything. I can't imagine anything more demoralizing than the financial treadmill they are on and the tightrope they are walking every single day.
I am of the belief that if the people sitting home on their butts had their lifelines pulled and were required to do something proactive to support themselves; the people of this country would be much more able and willing to help the others. The whole concept of that demographic group not having healthcare is another topic in of itself. I have had the opportunity to research state health care plans and "don't have healthcare" is a very debateable topic. And with that I unfortunately need to get to sleep.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:33:16 AM

How many of those who are sneering at these workers are wives who subsist in part or in full on their husbands incomes?



1. I would never sneer at anyone, especially those who are struggling to make ends meet. Like I said, some people that I'm close to live paycheck to paycheck, and my heart goes out to them.

2. Yes, I am a SAHM. I grew up in a relatively poor household. Even though they owned their own business, after paying all the related expenses my parents never had much left over. I paid my own way through college, with occasional help from my parents for books. I worked as a teacher for 10 years before I became a SAHM, a decision that my husband and I made together.

3. If I needed to, I could find a job tomorrow. There is a shortage in my teaching area, so I've never had a problem finding a job. I hope I don't have to go back to the classroom, because quite frankly, I find it too stressful. I am trying to decide what I want to do for a second career.

4. I'm not required to have a job to be able to have an opinion on this or any other topic. Long before my husband and I met, I supported myself and held down a job. I'm not the one sneering at anyone. If anything, the tone of the question I quoted implies that you're sneering at ME.


**Jody**

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look4angel
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Posted: 12/2/2012 2:42:18 AM

I actually find it more shameful that people work 2 or 3 jobs and still have to get public assistance and don't have healthcare. I am much more concerned about them than the people who aren't doing anything. I can't imagine anything more demoralizing than the financial treadmill they are on and the tightrope they are walking every single day.

"Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich or "The Working Poor: On Not Getting By in America" by David Shipler are both highly readable and eye-opening books on this topic.

ITA with the above statement and I will be looking for those books.


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scrappylicious
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:01:19 AM


I never understood why anyone thinks it's OK to take advantage of another persons pain or thinks that the poor are just lazy.

I do not think that someone should pay more so I can pay less.



not2peased
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:42:25 AM
Instead of some of the foolish tax breaks we give some corporations I'd like to see tax breaks that are more in line with behaviors we want to promote.

tax breaks for companies that provide benefits and a living wage to their workers? I'm all for it

and for the record, this liberal does not think that forcing companies to pay more (although I do support moderate increases in federal minimum wage)is the route to go, nor do I think paying people based on family size makes any sense whatsoever

compensation drives behavior--that's the model I like to use.


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lynlam
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:24:43 AM
Just getting back on...haven't read the entire thread yet.

First of all, still trying to wrap my head around the stunning lack of knowledge so many have about basic economics and markets, and the terrible effect that unwarranted government intrusion by do-gooders has had on them.


Oh Lynlam, you're such a silly girl, "I" am not making these people protest for higher incomes, "THEY" are doing it themselves, because "THEY" can't afford to live off the money they are being paid, by companies who are raking in huge profits.


Do you have any idea at all what happens to the "profits" that these large companies make? Do you have any idea how they became such large companies to begin with? Do you think McDonalds just has a warehouse full of cash somewhere that they are just collecting for the hell of it? No. They have to pay dividends to their investors. Do you understand what investors and dividends are? Do you understand that without investors willing to risk their money, then McDonalds would never have been able to grow into the huge entity it is, that employes 400,000 or more people WORLDWIDE. So the investors expect a return on their investments. McDonalds pays them for allowing McDonalds to use their money to grow and run their business.

Do you also understand that, in the case of Fast food specifically, that almost all McDonalds are also independently owned franchises? So it is up to the OWNER of that store to control their labor costs and expenses according to McDonalds guidelines. These franchise owners are not paid by McDonalds, they earn their living from the profits that their stores make after expenses. To that note, a McDonalds in Times Square will probably have to pay much higher wages than a McDonalds in inner-city chicago.


McDonald's profits increased by 130% this year in the middle of this recession, they CAN afford to pay their employees a decent wage, but they chose not to. So they really shouldn't be shocked when their employee's are revolting because of those wages.



And just why do you think their profits when up in the middle of a recession? Because their food is relatively cheap, and people can afford it. If we implement your ideas, the food will no longer be cheap, despite the fact that their workers make more $, and the people who DON'T work for them, whose salaries were NOT artifically increased, will no longer eat there. So these workers will lose big time in the end.

So lets just say, it is far, far far more complicated than just looking at their "profit margains" and saying they should be paying all their employees a "living wage".

ANd yes, I am of the opinion that these workers who are so upset about their wages should just shut the hell up and be glad they have a job. If they aren't happy with their wages, they are free to leave. Start their own business or find somewhere else to work. THAT is simple.


You, of all people who is constantly screaming that the government should get people off of assistance, should be "mad as hell" at McDonald's for paying their employee's such a low wage that they still qualify for "YOUR" tax dollars, in the form of food stamps, housing, and healthcare..


No, I am not "mad as hell" at McDonalds. I understand the balance that businesses of all sizes have to juggle to stay in business. You know, maybe YOU should be "mad as hell" at the government for imposing regulations on businesses like McDonalds that cost said business many many millions of dollars each year in order to comply. I am very much sure that McDonalds would much rather take those millions and millions that they essentially have to light a match to, and invest it back into their business and their employees.

Do you know that the Small Business Admin estimates that complying with Government regulations costs small firm 1.7 TRILLION dollars a year? That's SMALL businesses. I don't think McDonalds and WalMart etc are even factored into that. Now you tell me, dear Look4Angel, exactly how anyone is supposed to succeed and hire and pay better wages when the GOVERNMENT is taking so much of their profits?

YOU can't have it both ways. Either start championing smaller government and less regulation or don't, and watch more and more people get screwed and end up on government dole. Because YOUR way does not work. Never has, never will.


Raising the minimum wage is NOT the only cause of inflation, if that was true, why are we experiencing inflation during the years that minimum wages have not been raised?


Quantatative Easing. Printing money. Borrowing from China. Out of control spending by governments at all levels. Welfare. Foodstamps. Subsidized student loans.

In short, everything the government does to "Help" us ends up costing us more in the long run. That's a fact.




how are ALL these people in minimum wage jobs supposed to AFFORD a higher education? if they can't even afford home and food, how can they afford college?


Once upon a time, in a far away place, before government got their hands into the student loan business, ANYONE could afford to get a higher education if they chose to. Even just 20 years ago when I was at OSU, my tuition was under $800 a quarter and my working class parents could afford to pay it. I worked full time at hotel front desks making just above min wage, and afforded an apartment with roomates, my books and my food and entertainment. Yes, parents had bought me a small used car, and they would help me out if I needed it, like when I had big car repairs or such. The point is, I did it. But you are right, it is nearly impossible now, precisely because the government got involved and the universities saw there was a huge profit to be made because of it. So now it is over $10,000 per year - three semesters - to go to OSU. I went for $2400 a year approx. That, is crazy.





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NativeNewYorker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:30:04 AM

how are ALL these people in minimum wage jobs supposed to AFFORD a higher education? if they can't even afford home and food, how can they afford college? it's not like there is ALL this free money lying around to send these people to school. it's ridiculous.


Agreed. It's scary how some have no clue. Since Sandy, there are thousands of kids at my son's college whose financial aid is still in the "processing stage". These kids were promised aid, haven't seen it and are being kept from registering for the next semester. They are being asked to pay in full before they can register! If they had the money to begin with there would be no need for them to receive financial aid!

I make more than minimum wage but to receive my Masters and receive a higher salary I would have to work free for four months (student teaching). Sandy repairs sucked up my savings and I also had to get an emergency loan. I don't know how people on minimum wage do it.


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myboysnme
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:30:06 AM

Right out of high school joined the military to qualify for the GI Bill.


Well good for him. And what did you do? I went into the military after high school also. My son was in ROTC and wanted to do the same until he was hit broadside and suffered a back injury. Guess what? No military for him.

There are a lot of stupid people on this thread when it comes to the harsh realities for others in this country. I know we have a lot of peas who hold down jobs, but it would be interesting to find out how many are living off someone else's income yet only?


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lynlam
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:44:43 AM
READ THIS ARTICLE - What is poverty?

Pull Quote:

It is possible that most poor households could be well housed and have many modern conveniences but still face chronic food shortages and undernutrition. Poor families might have microwaves but a limited and sporadic supply of food to put in the microwave. Government surveys show that this is not the case for the overwhelming majority of poor families.

On average, the poor are well nourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children. In most cases, it is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than higher-income children consume, and their protein intake averages 100 percent above recommended levels. In fact, most poor children are super-nourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.[24]

However, even though the poor, in general, have an ample food supply, some do suffer from temporary food shortages. For example, a poor household with an adequate long-term food supply might need temporarily to cut back meals, eat cheap food, or go without if cash and food stamps run out at the end of the month.

Still, government data show that most poor households do not suffer even from temporary food shortages. As Chart 7 shows, 92.5 percent of poor households assert that they always had “enough food to eat” during the previous four months, although 26 percent of these did not always have the foods that they would have preferred. Some 6 percent of poor households state that they “sometimes” did not have enough food, and 1.5 percent say they “often” did not have enough food.[25]

The bottom line is that, although a small portion of poor households report temporary food shortages, the overwhelming majority of poor households report that they consistently have enough food to eat.


I don't deny there are kids that go hungry in every community, but often it could be said that it is due to the poor choices their parents make and not the amount of wages that they earn.

Something doesn't quite equate here - the poor are all starving according to the media and government advocates, yet the number one health concern facing the poor of America? Obesity.

And most poor households have air conditioning,cable, color TVs and Very possibly a game system too.

"Making ends meet" is all relative. Many who are on government assistance while working at McDonalds would probably refuse to cut their cable or give up their cell phones or sell their Xboxes if it meant they could get OFF the government dole.






"We demand entire freedom of action and then expect the government in some miraculous way to save us from the consequences of our own acts... Self-government means self-reliance." Calvin Coolidge

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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:46:06 AM

My son was in ROTC and wanted to do the same until he was hit broadside and suffered a back injury. Guess what? No military for him.
Ok... I'm sorry to hear that. So he's supposed to just chuck it all and get a job at McD's and hope the government takes care of him the rest of his life? I'm not sure what you want me to say. Find another way. People do it every day in this country.

My husband broke his back in 2 places, his wrist and various other bones in his body pulling a stupid stunt in HS (jumping off the top bleachers landing on his back.) Even if he wasn't able to get into the Navy right out of HS-- he'd have found another way. In fact, the GI Bill paid for very little of his college. We owe quite a bit in school loans but we're quite certain that the quality of education he's received and the field he's chosen will bring a good return on our loan.


***********
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I-95
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:53:32 AM

This statement is BEYOND reprehensible. This man was paid a pittance to take bullets for a living, and because part of his compensation package is delayed and in the form of paying for his education later if he survives, you have the nerve to call it a HANDOUT?! By your definition, every government employee is getting a handout and government assistance because their paycheck is stamped US Treasury. Get over yourself.


I'm not opposed to the GI bill paying for a service member's college education, but the idea that everyone in the military is 'Taking a bullet' for living is not even close to correct. 91% of military positions are non-combat.

My DH went through Duke and M.I.T on full ride Navy scholarships, and served in the Navy to 'pay' it back. He now has all the benefits available to former members of the military.....but he never got within a 1000 miles of taking a bullet for his country.

I'm surprised the military isn't overrun with volunteers in these tough economic times. DH came from a family that could never have afforded M.I.T, or Duke, but the military paid his way and then gave him fantastic job training while he paid back his obligation....and allowed him to buy his first home using the GI Bill. We are most grateful to the military for that, eternally grateful actually, but the idea that he put his life on the line to get those benefits...just ain't the case.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:56:13 AM
I'm a public school teacher in a rural low socioeconomic area. I interact often with parents. In some cases my eighth grade students are better readers than their parents. We have no English language learners in our school. We have no first or second generation immigrants that I'm aware of. We have a large population of families who have a good work ethic (typically farmers and factory workers or their offspring), strong family and religious values, and lower academic intelligence. These people have common sense. They have a desire to be successful. They barely make it out of high school. They could not make it through college and many might not be able to handle trade school. In addition, they have families to support. It is difficult to find second or third shift day care, much less to be able to afford it. Could they choose not to have children? Sure. But that isn't a reality. And to argue it is saying that a person has to be of a certain academic intelligence to be allowed to raise a family in this country.

There are a lot of assumptions about the workers in our country. There are many, many areas like mine - no bus or taxi service, too spread out to walk to work, limited job opportunities, and even the closest fast food restaurant is in the next town.
A lot of people rely on construction jobs, which are seasonal here. And they fall back on plowing to get them through the winter. We live in a lake effect snow belt, so this is great in a good season. But this year its December 2 and we have had one snowfall of less than an inch.
The reality is that fast food and minimum wage jobs are the best that a portion of our population can hope for. But those people are often overlooked because its easier to assume that everyone is capable of continuing their education beyond high school.
Our IEPs for students starting at age 14 are now required to focus on postsecondary goals, whether its education, training, or employment. I wish all students had the luxury of their teachers being federally required to set and monitor goals to help them work towards achievable success.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:03:06 AM
I-95, what are you talking about? It isn't like the man chose dis deployments. The navy deployed him where he was the most use to them. He could have done six months in Newport, six months in Pearl Harbor, then a year in the Gulf.



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clee321
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:13:17 AM
Factory work is not comparable to min wage jobs

In our town GM gave hourly workers 10-14k in bonuses in 2012. That is after overtime, regular pay ($12+ to start), and benefits

Another much smaller factory starts workers at $17+ per hour and has bonuses and benefits

A medium sized factory in town starts at $12 and has benefits as well..

So seeing factory work listed as though it isn't paying enough bugs me.

May. Not be the work you love but pay and benefits and bonus enough to provide a living



I-95
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:17:12 AM

I-95, what are you talking about? It isn't like the man chose dis deployments. The navy deployed him where he was the most use to them. He could have done six months in Newport, six months in Pearl Harbor, then a year in the Gulf.


Actually, he pretty much did choose his deployments. After he graduated with a pretty specific specialty, there weren't that many places the Navy could have put him, and utilize the education they had paid for. He wasn't in the military during the Gulf war so he got to sail around the Pacific when he was required to do sea duty.

It still doesn't negate the fact that 91% of all military positions are non-combat.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:36:40 AM

Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases. I also know of several people who think that hard work is "beneath them."


Oh, this is so true. And even worse, I know of several people who just walked away from their bills-or even worse-their mortgages-and claim that they aren't lazy freeloaders!



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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:44:07 AM
Oblio, I don't agree with your points but if you managed to make them without insulting others while doing so, I bet people would be willing to give them a lot more thought.

As far as women being supported by their husbands, so what? It is a private agreement between two private citizens. It requires nothing and demands nothing of anyone else. How is this anything like insisting that the government or a private enterprise pay you or support you financially?





Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford

Jillsie Pea
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:53:56 AM

As far as women being supported by their husbands, so what? It is a private agreement between two private citizens. It requires nothing and demands nothing of anyone else. How is this anything like insisting that the government or a private enterprise pay you or support you financially?


I agree with this.

stittsygirl
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:56:07 AM

I'm surprised the military isn't overrun with volunteers in these tough economic times. DH came from a family that could never have afforded M.I.T, or Duke, but the military paid his way and then gave him fantastic job training while he paid back his obligation....and allowed him to buy his first home using the GI Bill. We are most grateful to the military for that, eternally grateful actually, but the idea that he put his life on the line to get those benefits...just ain't the case.


The military is currently drawing down. They are letting go many highly qualified personnel, including my own husband, for the least of reasons. They can afford to be particularly picky about who they let in right now, so it's not going to be easy for anyone to just "sign on the dotted line" and join up. Of course, this is part of the usual cycle, and in a few years they'll be trying to fill quotas again and won't be as picky. Fortunately for us, my husband has the years to draw retirement pay, although it won't cover the needs of our family, and we are currently looking for jobs.

My husband must be part of the 9% who have served in combat zones, because he's done so twice, both in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've never heard that statistic before.



Kristen, lucky mom and proud retired Army wife!




lynlam
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:59:07 AM

I wish all students had the luxury of their teachers being federally required to set and monitor goals to help them work towards achievable success.


So, let me ask you...you think its a good thing to have the federal government in far off DC set federally mandated requirements in a "One size fits all" kind of way, for all students across the nation? Or do you think your local school district, in conjunction with it's parents and local employers and community colleges could better identify the strenghts and weaknesses of your student population and work to better prepare them for the realities of their own, local situations?

I think federally mandated anything is bad news. The fact is, there ARE people, as you said, that really wont' ever be anything more than unskilled, minimum wage earners. And you know what? our economy does need those people do to those jobs. BUT...that does not mean that those jobs should pay as much as a job with more responsibility, requirements, education and training.

So the questions remains, what should we do with these people? Well, for one, eliminate the minimum wage. In many areas where the market does not justify wages that high, the minimum wage actually depresses employment and keeps other wages lower than they might have been. Addititonally, the minimum wage historically, has been advocated for by unions who knew that minorities and younger workers would gladly work for much lower wages than older white workers, therefore to protect the jobs of their white members, unions fought for minimum wage laws that priced minorities and young people out of the picture. Dont' believe it? Research it. South African white unions specifically used this tactic very successfully.

If businesses were allowed to hire and pay people based upon their worth and value added to the end product, it would be a win win for everyone. More employment, better wages, better products. Competition is a GOOD thing. It improves everything in the long run.

NOTHING will solve everything. There will always be some who "cant make it". Always. There is no way to avoid it. But the absolute irrefutable fact is that our poor in America are still among the wealthiest people in the world. That is no accident. That is capitalism. That is "trickle down", despite those of you who do not believe it exists or works. That is the free market working, not because of governmnent, but INSPITE of it. Imagine what could happen if we truly unleashed it?

The price of freedom is that there will be inequalities. The only way to make everything equal is to revert back to a system of slavery. Economic slavery is just as insidious as chains. And that is the system that aparently many of you who continue to vote for equality and security and "Social justice" want.

Let me give you a quote from Frederick Douglas, former slave and revered, self educated, amazing man, on the nature of slavery"

"It's first aim is to destroy all sense of high moral and religious responsibility. It reduces man to a machine and cuts him off from his Maker. It hides, from him, the laws of God, and leaves him to grope his way from time to eternity in the dark. And it leaves him under the arbitrary and despotic control of frail, depraved, and sinful men."

Under the arbitrary and despotic control of frail, depraved, and sinful men. Indeed.

Why do you all think that the men we elect and allow to impose their will upon us are less greedy, evil and despotic than the CEO of Walmart or McDonalds?







"We demand entire freedom of action and then expect the government in some miraculous way to save us from the consequences of our own acts... Self-government means self-reliance." Calvin Coolidge

Lynlam, the second-tier Pea, paid (except it appears she is not) political shill.

obliolait
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:01:41 AM
the notion that government shouldn't regulate businesses is idiotic ideology that is irrational. we've already seen the damage of deregulation during the bush years.

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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:07:38 AM

that poor soul as examples you may know. Maybe if people start to realize that education, work ethic and yes self sacrifice and personal responsibility are what it takes; they will find it within themselves to better themselves rather than expecting others to take care of them.


Read my previous posts.

There are no factory jobs anymore, those are the people who are working at McyD's now, we can thank Clinton for that and I'm a democrat.

As for people in the military those guys/girls deserve what ever the government gives them and more.

This thread is so full of people who just have no clue, and frankly are just as prejudice as Squillen. When you just assume something about someone anyone that makes you just as racist as the redneck who still believes in separation.

Man this just screws up the admiration I had for many of you.



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desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:13:42 AM

Krispy Kreme is about to reopen in our town, and several of my friends are going to apply. They're college-educated and in their late '30s or early '40s.

My college-educated husband who was laid off from his career job after 15+ years now works at a grocery store and every day he's approached by people we know casually who are interested in getting hired there. Of course, they usually throw in some barb like it's beneath them or their last resort.


It is posts like this that make me absolutely pissed off at what was allowed and actually encouraged by our government to willfully destroy the economy of this country. These people are supposed to be in the prime of their careers, yet it got stolen from them.

This is insanity, and we're all contributing to it.

NativeNewYorker
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:27:14 AM

And most poor households have air conditioning,cable, color TVs and Very possibly a game system too.


I haven't seen a black and white tv since I was a kid and I'm 43. I looked on ebay and saw some hand held black and whites. The others were expensive and listed as antique. Didn't see any on Amazon. If you don't have basic cable around here you have no tv reception.

Young children's parents are often asked if there are computers at home. It's almost an expectation now. They are free in the library but when you're working three jobs it makes it hard for your children to get there. If a child gets a game system for their birthday or Xmas, so what?! I'm not going to thumb my nose at a child because of their parent's choices.


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BuckeyeSandy
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:35:21 AM
Just a historical note.

It was not all that long ago jobs only paid for hours worked. Period. There were no benefits as we know them today.

Things like employer provided medical insurance, we're done to hire better qualified employees. Employees with skills and knowledge were valued and paid more to remain.

Now, current day: we have a mess because of the multitude of laws and regulations that govern businesses of all types.

As to illegals, while living in the Southwest met many more people from various European countries that were in the USA illegally, than someone with family on both sides of the border, or from Central America.



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Judie in Oz
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:36:51 AM
Just read the whole thread. I had no idea there were so many snobs here.

Judie

BethAnneM
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:43:56 AM

Work ethic-- a thing of the past in a lot of cases. I also know of several people who think that hard work is "beneath them."


Oh, this is so true. And even worse, I know of several people who just walked away from their bills-or even worse-their mortgages-and claim that they aren't lazy freeloaders!


Yeah, how some so high and mighty seem to have that "it's okay for me to do this but the rest of you are nasty freeloaders if you do it" mind set.

And with that, I bite my tongue.



ilovecookies
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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:46:09 AM

Yeah, how some so high and mighty seem to have that "it's okay for me to do this but the rest of you are nasty freeloaders if you do it" mind set.


Exactly



redayh
BucketHead

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Posted: 12/2/2012 10:57:57 AM
Some of you are a piece of work. The snobbery is absolutely amazing (and totally unwarranted).
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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:00:22 AM

And most poor households have air conditioning,cable, color TVs and Very possibly a game system too.


man, obviously this person has no way of knowing what is in more low-income households - however, i highly doubt that most low-income earners have AC and if they do, it's not incredibly expensive to buy one. It's very uncomfortable to live in a small apartment in the middle of summer - so it wouldn't be surprising if people saved to afford one. Again, it is ridiculous to blame the problems of the country on the working poor.

~*Trollie*~
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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:06:26 AM

Something doesn't quite equate here - the poor are all starving according to the media and government advocates, yet the number one health concern facing the poor of America? Obesity.


That's because the cheapest food is the crappiest chemical, over-processed crap. Fresh fruit, vegetables, dairy products and lean meats are EXPENSIVE and perishable. Pull your head out and think a little.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:36:53 AM
This thread just proves that there isn't just one issue to blame for the state of our economy. It's a combination of many issues.

We can all post an example to disprove a previous poster's statement because everyone's situation and experience is different.

An example would be the comments made about fast food vs healthy food, fast food being more expensive. I would disagree. How much is an icecream cone from a fast food place vs a banana/apple/orange? A family of 5 can eat at McDonald's for how much? $30? (I honestly dont know because we haven't been to a fast food restaurant for almost 4 years.) I can fix a healthy meal for 5 under $20.



Jen


look4angel
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:46:35 AM


READ THIS ARTICLE - What is poverty?

Pull Quote:
It is possible that most poor households could be well housed and have many modern conveniences but still face chronic food shortages and under
nutrition. Poor families might have microwaves but a limited and sporadic supply of food to put in the microwave. Government surveys show that this is not the case for the overwhelming majority of poor families.

Lynlam, the article you quoted is from a VERY right wing ridiculous site, gimme a break! It's so full of crap, it's not even worth reading. I love that you didn't add that it calls "having a refrigerator and a stove" an amenity. And that it was basically okay for a family to have "food shortages" What a bunch of BS. Have you ever been to someone's home who is "really" poor? I seriously doubt it.

I volunteer for the food bank, I see working poor almost daily. I also see elderly people and struggling families. For most elderly living on basic SS, their monthly income is about $750.00 dollars a month, most get less than $100.00 a month in food stamps. They are forced to buy unhealthy food because fresh vegetables, and fruit costs too damn much for them to buy. You're lack of knowledge of how the "poor" live is appalling to say the least.

and air conditioning you're pissed because some of them have air conditioning? Have you seen the effects of heat stroke on a elderly person, or a child? Do you realize that people actually DIE from not having air conditioning in high heat areas?

Try going without food for a day or two and see if you think that it's Okay, after all it's just a shortage.


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cmpeter
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:00:10 PM
I don't buy that raising the minimum wage automatically = a higher cost
of living. Washington has the highest minimum wage and while doesn't have the lowest cost of living, we are in the second to lowest tier. Nevada has one of the higher minimum wages and are in the lowest tier in terms of cost of living.

Cost of Living

Costco is an excellent example of a company that pays their employees a living wage + health insurance and still manages to turn a nice profit.


Cindi

clee321
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:01:38 PM

There are no factory jobs anymore


This IS NOT TRUE. Where do you get this crap you share?????



clee321
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:08:27 PM

You're lack of knowledge of how the "poor" live is appalling to say the least.


Denying that many people who are on assistance programs live lives of iPhones, big screen tvs, brand new vans, and other such great things doesn't make it less so.

Here in our town I know of a person who makes close to or over $40K, spouse is on disability but works 3 jobs under the table, they get food stamps and other government assistance for them and their 2 kids AS WELL AS getting their Christmas provided by the various charities around town.

This past year I have stood behind others, at walmart, who are on assistance and have watched as they blew through their income tax check on electronics and then used their food stamp card on food.

I know another family who receives over $7000 in income tax returns while not paying one penny in taxes.

So, you meet a different population of "poor" in your volunteering and I meet a different population of "poor" in my life and technically, on paper, our family is below the poverty level.

Just because one "poor" has it worse off than the other doesn't mean the others don't represent their segment.



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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:13:13 PM
Silly clee, why shouldn't they have these luxuries. Just because they're poor and live off the taxpayer doesn't mean they aren't entitled to these things. How dare you suggest otherwise. And you should be happy they have them and that you're paying for it. How dare you suggest otherwise you racist bitch.

<insert sarcasm here>






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_Vanessa_
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Posted: 12/2/2012 12:15:19 PM
I was in retail management for many many years. Y'all have GOT to get off the minimum wage thing and think about what really happens. I was not allowed, at any company I have ever managed for, to give full time hours to *anyone* that wasn't a key holder. Giving someone full time hours gave them access to benefits and, if they were not a key holder, that was not ever ok. No matter how good they were at their job, no matter how much I needed them. Not ok. That is the very first issue that needs to be resolved. Because I could run a GameStop with my key holders and two or three GREAT full time game advisors, but I was stuck with seven part timers, who weren't invested in the job because they didn't get enough hours to qualify for benefits.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:54:50 PM


Yeah, how some so high and mighty seem to have that "it's okay for me to do this but the rest of you are nasty freeloaders if you do it" mind set.
Who are you talking about?


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asr70
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:14:05 PM

I was in retail management for many many years. Y'all have GOT to get off the minimum wage thing and think about what really happens. I was not allowed, at any company I have ever managed for, to give full time hours to *anyone* that wasn't a key holder. Giving someone full time hours gave them access to benefits and, if they were not a key holder, that was not ever ok. No matter how good they were at their job, no matter how much I needed them. Not ok. That is the very first issue that needs to be resolved. Because I could run a GameStop with my key holders and two or three GREAT full time game advisors, but I was stuck with seven part timers, who weren't invested in the job because they didn't get enough hours to qualify for benefits.
I worked at Zellers and this was true there. You never went about 37.5 hours, unless it was maybe Christmas time. If you had so many hours in a row above that 37.5 you became full time and they didn't want that.







not2peased
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:17:25 PM

This past year I have stood behind others, at walmart, who are on assistance and have watched as they blew through their income tax check on electronics and then used their food stamp card on food


it's statements like this that so clearly demonstrate their prejudice.

you simply cannot judge a situation on the 2 minutes you observe while in line at walmart. no doubt you will come back and here and claim you heard a conversation in which they discussed how they are scamming the system simply to support your prejuice...

did it ever occur to you that perhaps these folks are using food stamps because they are foster parents and they are purchasing items for their foster kids? or the electronics were for someone else? or any number of other scenarios that DON'T involve the poor choices of so-called losers scamming the system? if you are going to jump to conclusions why is it always the negative ones?

makes me feel sad for so many people who live surrounded by so much suspicion and negativity. it must really suck to view the world through such dingy, dirty glasses.


-Kerry


Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others.

clee321
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:24:53 PM

no doubt you will come back and here and claim you heard a conversation in which they discussed how they are scamming the system simply to support your prejuice...


I am not up for typing out that particular incident again ( I am pretty sure it is already somewhere in the pod)

I am ok with your label, you weren't there so you are doing to me what you are accusing me of doing to them. *shrugs*

I also have (somewhere in the pod) written about when I stood behind a woman who had amazing amounts of tats and judging her when she had that kind of investment in ink but was paying with the food stamp card.

You seem more than willing to judge me but you don't seem to know anything about me. Why do you expect different behavior out of me than you, yourself display?




look4angel
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:48:24 PM

I also have (somewhere in the pod) written about when I stood behind a woman who had amazing amounts of tats and judging her when she had that kind of investment in ink but was paying with the food stamp card.

You do realize that for each food stamp card issued you can assign two people to buy your food for you. For example my mother is on food stamps, she draws less then $100.00 a month.

I can use her card to purchase her food since she is in a wheelchair, and rarely shops for herself. You could easily be witnessing episodes such as this and you would never know who's card was being used, or who was on the receiving end of those groceries.


Denying that many people who are on assistance programs live lives of iPhones, big screen tvs, brand new vans, and other such great things doesn't make it less so.

I'm calling this BS also, in the state of TN you are only allowed to have $2000.00 of TOTAL assets and apply for benefits. I'm pretty sure a brand new van is valued at more than $2000.00. The only except to this would be if the van was the sole transportation the family had, and more than likely they had to have owned it prior to applying for benefits, as most car dealers will not sell a high valued car to someone receiving benefits. The guidelines for health insurance are even harder to meet.

Resource Test. The asset limit is $2,000 for most households and $3,250 for households containing a member who is disabled or 60 years of age. Assets not counted are the home the applicant is presently living in and its lot, household goods, income producing property, real estate that is up for sale, cash value of life insurance, personal property, retirement accounts such as IRA and 401k plans, and vehicles with equity value under $1,500. Other vehicles not counted are those used for family transportation, to go to and from work, to produce income, for subsistence hunting and fishing, as the households home, to transport a disabled household member, and to carry the households primary source of heating fuel or water. Countable assets include cash on hand, money in checking, savings accounts, certificates of deposit, stocks, bonds, property not up for sale, and lump-sum payments.

Link


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~NovaPeA~
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:54:11 PM
This is a nasty thread...and this statement..


I'm not even sure half the people that work at our local fast food places are legal citizens.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



How do you know this?? Do they have and accent and dark skin? That must make them illegal.

What a nasty thing to say Squillen.


Ignorant


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clee321
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:58:24 PM
I do not live in TN and I know for sure that in OH you can own a vehicle, have a house mortgage and other such this while getting assistance.


I wrote three situations I have personal experience with. Not invented or averaged or based on a true story.

How interesting the insistent denying of these realities.




~*Trollie*~
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:06:02 PM

I also have (somewhere in the pod) written about when I stood behind a woman who had amazing amounts of tats and judging her when she had that kind of investment in ink but was paying with the food stamp card.


Maybe her friend is a tattoo artist and she is his canvas. Maybe she got those tats when times were better and she had a good job and was making money. You JUST DON"T KNOW. Bottom line.


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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:08:20 PM

Resource Test. The asset limit is $2,000 for most households and $3,250 for households containing a member who is disabled or 60 years of age. Assets not counted are the home the applicant is presently living in and its lot, household goods,

If you read the link you'll see you can own a home in TN also, you also as soon as your youngest child is in school you have to be looking for work, in school, or disabled.


Work. To receive food stamps, most able-bodied people between 16 and 59 years old must register for work, participate in the Employment & Training Program if offered, accept offers of employment, and cannot quit a job. Able-bodied adults without dependents aged 18 to 59 can receive only a limited number of benefit months in 3 years, unless working 80 hours per month or otherwise determined exempt from the rule.

Since my mom is over the working age limit she doesn't have to have a job, or be in school. I'd be willing to bet those same laws are in Ohio also. They are online all you have to do is look them up.


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