Fast food worker protest to receive a decent wage
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 11/30/2012 by look4angel in NSBR Board
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batya
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:05:25 AM

Guess who gets and demands the respect she deserves IRL and who gets stepped on? Not I. Unfortunately, when a man does it, they are powerful and in control. When a woman does it, she's high and mighty and a bitch.

If Mochas was interviewing me, I guarantee you, I'd get that job.
See above about you being condescending.....


And I don't see that as condescending. Condescending is talking down to someone. I wasn't talking down to you. I was telling you, with CONFIDENCE, that I would walk out with what I was after. Do you notice when you read this board that so many women are afraid to say no, afraid to go after what is rightfully theirs, what they deserve? Why should that be? That they apologize before they start talking as in "I'm sorry, but..."


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




stittsygirl
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:19:18 AM

Many people who serve in the military are not paid to take bullets for a living. Sounds patriotic and sacrificial and all that, but many people who serve and have served are never in harms way.


A service member doesn't always get to make that choice, though. When you sign on the dotted line, having to serve in a combat zone is always an option, no matter what your job. That's why every service member goes through a basic training course first, to learn how to fight in combat, before their specialized training in their field. And except for a couple of hundred dollars in extra combat pay every month, an E-5 getting shot at in Afghanistan and an E-5 sitting at a comfy desk in the US make the same wage, based on their rank and time in service.

I don't know why this is an issue. Every service member who has ever signed up has the chance of being in combat at some point or another. I'd still like to see the statistic about the 91% never having to serve in a combat zone. Where we're stationed, those numbers would be turned around, but that is the nature of our military post. My husband is an officer with a desk job, but that desk has been in both Iraq and Afghanistan at some point, with missiles hitting his compound at least twice a week.




KikiNichole

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:30:06 AM

Guess who gets and demands the respect she deserves IRL and who gets stepped on? Not I. Unfortunately, when a man does it, they are powerful and in control. When a woman does it, she's high and mighty and a bitch.

If Mochas was interviewing me, I guarantee you, I'd get that job.

See above about you being condescending.....


I think many people confuse confidence with condescension. All I see in Batya's statement is confidence.


~Kristen~

mzscrappea
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:49:09 AM

Guess who gets and demands the respect she deserves IRL and who gets stepped on? Not I. Unfortunately, when a man does it, they are powerful and in control. When a woman does it, she's high and mighty and a bitch.

If Mochas was interviewing me, I guarantee you, I'd get that job.
See above about you being condescending.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I don't see that as condescending. Condescending is talking down to someone. I wasn't talking down to you. I was telling you, with CONFIDENCE, that I would walk out with what I was after. Do you notice when you read this board that so many women are afraid to say no, afraid to go after what is rightfully theirs, what they deserve? Why should that be? That they apologize before they start talking as in "I'm sorry, but..."


No one should have to stay quite or accept less than they deserve. I never said that you or anyone else should do that or that when women stand up for themselves they are bitches-that's your issue, not mine. I said that you have been condescending in the past, and that as such, you do not give others the same respect that you demand for yourself. I do find it condescending to suggest that I have no idea of the meaning of the word.

stittsygirl
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:53:31 AM

Seriously, the GI Bill is part of the compensation package. To call it a handout is egregious and insulting. They earn it. It was promised to them when they agreed to do the job. If they do a job stateside, it's irrelevant that they didn't do something dangerous. It was promised as compensation for their job. It is NOT a Pell Grant that you get for filling out the paperwork and having a need for money when you go through the registration line.

Would you tell some of our peas working in government offices that some part of THEIR compensation package is 'government assistance' or a 'handout' that they didn't earn, but get through the graciousness of the government? Maybe their health benefits? How about their pension? Vacation time or sick leave? Maybe their tuition reimbursement?

But a soldier, who turns himself or herself over to do a job in whatever way their branch of the military requires, has part of their duly earned and agreed upon compensation package called a "handout", and are told they can't say they worked hard to get their education without government handouts.


Thank you! My husband, and we as a family, have earned every bit of compensation we've received from the military, including the GI Bill, and the tuition reimbursement my husband used to get his Master's. Even if a service member never serves in a combat zone, just making the commitment to serve, to possibly face combat, serving wherever the military tells them to, and just doing their job earns them that compensation.

clee321
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:54:27 AM

I think many people confuse confidence with condescension. All I see in Batya's statement is confidence.


My thoughts too!



batya
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:56:50 AM

Let's talk about the ink sleeves and huge ones displaced on the legs of the basketball players. Are you going to tell me those kids saved up for those? Are you going to tell me it helps keep them out of the criminal element they may find in their neighborhoods? It's all garbage.


This is the full statement you made. How you can't interpret that as talking about the people, their choices and their taste being trash/garbage I don't know. Can you clarify what you meant, then, by garbage?


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




batya
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:11:25 AM

I do find it condescending to suggest that I have no idea of the meaning of the word.


From your post, it appeared you didn't. I wasn't the only one who thought so. See Kiki and Clee's posts.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




gmcwife1
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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:17:48 PM

With that said, I think it's ridiculous to expect to make a career of fast food. It's a minimum wage job for a reason. It's a JOB. It's designed to make you some spending money for doing a job anyone can do. I am so tired of having this country cater to stupid. When is enough enough?? If you work a job that anyone can do, you get paid what you deserve. It doesn't matter that people now rely on it to feed an entire family. That's not the purpose of the job. If you have a specialty, a job that not everyone can do, then you get paid accordingly. It's that simple.
I came from a communist country (legally Squillen so shut your ignorant trap) and worked my butt of to get where I am. And I have no desire to go back. You don't cater to your weakest element, you cater to those who can and do. My country happened to lose sight of that and all the intelligence emigrated to other countries. The countries who reward intelligence and hard work. I hope America continues to do that. (btw Obama is not a communist, socialist, or anything close to that. Don't speak about what you know nothing of.)

Of course these workers can revolt, it's their right. But they shouldn't be surprised, or outraged, when they are easily replaced and their complaints go unanswered. It's the nature of the beast. This is a capitalist country and people need to understand the basics of capitalism.



I know we have veered off into tattoos and respect and other subjects. But I agree with you on the main topic It is interesting to see people that observe but have not necessarily lived the life, comment about how others live. And feel like what they think is out there is the only way it is out there.

My mom was a high school dropout at 17. She got her GED and after working any and all jobs she could get, retired a few years ago working as a painter for a company making a very nice wage. Her worse job included being a janitor scrubbing toilets at night while she also worked as a waitress during the day.

I was also a high school dropout. I worked 1 or 2 minimum wage jobs until I got my high school diploma at 31. Pre diploma jobs were Taco Time (fast food), Taco Time and a car wash, Taco Time and JC Penney's, Circle K.

Post high school diploma jobs were DSHS, car insurance company, shipping supply distributor, health insurance company. As my education has increased so has my pay. Fast food/minimum wage jobs were never meant to be self sustaining for me or for my family. They were always seen as stepping stones to a better future.


~ Dori ~


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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:11:32 PM
Holy crap on a time wasting stick.....after reading two train wrecks today.....

Some of you chicks sure you don't have a penis tucked in your legs, cause if you do, you need to pull that thing out and have a good ole fashioned pissing contest to see who is the better person.

I can vision all the players in my head, pissing all over one another. It's genius. Come on!!!!

I swear, if the group of pissers ever stops, I'll have way more time to devote to good things, like watching more tv!!!!


I-95
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:12:28 PM

I'd still like to see the statistic about the 91% never having to serve in a combat zone.



Here

I don't think I said 91% never have to serve in a combat zone. I think I said 91% of military jobs are non-combat, not quite the same thing... and I didn't see a date on the article so I'm not sure when it was written.

ETA: I just want to be clear that I meant no disrespect when I originally posted that stat. I was just taking exception to the fact that anyone who has had the advantage of the GI Bill, was 'taking a bullet for their country' My DH has been out of the military for eons. I was raised in a career military family, and support a strong military, but neither of those things makes me an expert on the military today.

TinCin
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:15:15 PM
This is the problem with a service industry nation as opposed to a manufacturing nation.


PROUD MEMBER OF UAW LOCAL 659 - Home of the Sit-Down Strike!

2boysandwill
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:24:29 PM

Many people who serve in the military are not paid to take bullets for a living. Sounds patriotic and sacrificial and all that, but many people who serve and have served are never in harms way.


holy cow, does it matter?!!?!?!? they have sworn to protect your very liberty!?!?! wtf is going on with the boards today?!?!!?

shannoninkc
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:52:55 PM

holy cow, does it matter?!!?!?!? they have sworn to protect your very liberty!?!?! wtf is going on with the boards today?!?!!?


Apparently, it appears...I think....that everyone thinks everyone else is wrong. On top of that, everyone is offended that anyone might be possibly offended. Additionally, being offended is offensive...and possibly racist...but I'm not sure. And on the other hand....oh fuck it. I'm lost. And probably just offended myself. That's it. I'm making a call out thread to call myself out.

leftturnonly
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:56:54 PM
This board locked up last night when I finally had time to read this thread, so I've only gotten part way through it.


I'm going to shock some of you here and agree that there are companies who pay more to the very top than I think they should, and that I think they would be far better companies by paying more of that to their employees.


This is how the next company can come along and beat them at their own game, though......






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redayh
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:08:20 PM
Uploaded with iPhone client

clee321
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:24:09 PM

calling them trash.
is based. If you recall, this was posted by Clee321


just to be clear - NO Clee321 DID NOT say anything about trash.



Mrs Smarty Pants
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:24:50 PM
Clee, you better get that screenshot ready.

clee321
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:28:41 PM

Clee, you better get that screenshot ready.


I just said "OH MY!" and laughed after reading this. My 4. 5 year old wants to know why I am laughing!



Mrs Smarty Pants
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:29:28 PM
I'm just sayin' .. I've been to this rodeo.

clee321
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:30:25 PM

Apparently, it appears...I think....that everyone thinks everyone else is wrong. On top of that, everyone is offended that anyone might be possibly offended. Additionally, being offended is offensive...and possibly racist...but I'm not sure. And on the other hand....oh fuck it. I'm lost. And probably just offended myself. That's it. I'm making a call out thread to call myself out.


OMGeeee! You are such a liar! I have been searching for your call out thread and I can't find it! You rumormonger!!!!



clee321
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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:33:14 PM

is based. If you recall, this was posted by Clee321


I also have (somewhere in the pod) written about when I stood behind a woman who had amazing amounts of tats and judging her when she had that kind of investment in ink but was paying with the food stamp card.


And to be clear - If this was to refer to the paragraph below it then YES - I shared about the tatted woman who taught me a lesson.

BUT I did not post the trash or garbage or rubbish comments



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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:26:33 PM

the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in.


This is incorrect. Straight from the government website:

Cell Phone Assistance

More cell phone

Original Obamaphone Lady

leftturnonly
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:27:32 PM

Government regulations are not the magic that some of you think they are. Every regulation has an intended and an unintended consequence...


I can go into my local Walmart and buy a knife from a locked knife display when I turn 16.

I need to be 18 to buy Sharpies.


Regulations can become absurd.




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stittsygirl
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:32:57 PM

I'd still like to see the statistic about the 91% never having to serve in a combat zone.



Here

I don't think I said 91% never have to serve in a combat zone. I think I said 91% of military jobs are non-combat, not quite the same thing... and I didn't see a date on the article so I'm not sure when it was written.

ETA: I just want to be clear that I meant no disrespect when I originally posted that stat. I was just taking exception to the fact that anyone who has had the advantage of the GI Bill, was 'taking a bullet for their country' My DH has been out of the military for eons. I was raised in a career military family, and support a strong military, but neither of those things makes me an expert on the military today.


Thank you for the clarification and the link. I think the way that article is written is misleading for those not in the know. A service member can be working a "non-combat" job in a combat zone, and still get shot at everyday.

I don't know what recruiters are like these days, or what they are telling potential recruits about current military jobs and the level of risk.




obliolait
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:33:04 PM

This is incorrect. Straight from the government website:



you have no idea what you are talking about. try again.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/

TinaFB
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:35:16 PM

the obama phone thing was debunked long ago. don't argue affairs of which you are not current in.



This is incorrect. Straight from the government website:

Cell Phone Assistance

More cell phone

Original Obamaphone Lady

So wait, the phone program started in 1985?? Damn, that Obama is good.


Tina


Kim M.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 12:27:12 AM

And I don't see that as condescending. Condescending is talking down to someone.


That is such an old, old joke that comedians (possibly Don Rickles?) used in their acts. Unfortunately, I think you were serious when saying this.


Huh? Why shouldn't everyone demand the respect they deserve?


Possibly it's different in your household, family or environment. In my upbringing, I was taught that respect is earned, not demanded and not deserved. That is why it is so easy to lose the respect of others...it's a gift that someone gives to you. I was also taught that the return gift for respect is humility and to have the respect of many should be humbling.

Batya, I respect your opinions, as you normally present them in a well presented series of thoughts to support your beliefs. I don't always agree with them, yet I respect what it is that leads to your belief.

I'm rather taken aback that you feel that you can demand respect and think that you deserve it. Like I said, in my humble opinion you have earned it from me. I think, though, that I lost a bit with these statements, on this thread. I really thought that you were a better person than that.


Kim

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Posted: 12/4/2012 12:51:33 AM

Possibly it's different in your household, family or environment. In my upbringing, I was taught that respect is earned, not demanded and not deserved. That is why it is so easy to lose the respect of others...it's a gift that someone gives to you. I was also taught that the return gift for respect is humility and to have the respect of many should be humbling.

You can't force anyone to actually respect you. But you can most certainly insist on being TREATED with respect.

Batya may not have worded her statement perfectly. But I don't blame her for refusing to continue a conversation with someone who speaks so disrespectfully to her. I would do the same thing.


LUCYG
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--Bertrand Russell



mamashosh
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:03:58 AM


Possibly it's different in your household, family or environment. In my upbringing, I was taught that respect is earned, not demanded and not deserved. That is why it is so easy to lose the respect of others...it's a gift that someone gives to you. I was also taught that the return gift for respect is humility and to have the respect of many should be humbling.

Batya, I respect your opinions, as you normally present them in a well presented series of thoughts to support your beliefs. I don't always agree with them, yet I respect what it is that leads to your belief.

I'm rather taken aback that you feel that you can demand respect and think that you deserve it. Like I said, in my humble opinion you have earned it from me. I think, though, that I lost a bit with these statements, on this thread. I really thought that you were a better person than that.


Interesting, Kim, because I was raised very differently. I was raised to believe that everyone is deserving of my complete respect unless they give me reason not to respect them. It is not a gift, but a symbol of human decency. It is a profound difference that I suspect colors many of our interactions and political positions.
I can't speak for Batya's beliefs, but I believe she is deserving of respect both because she is human and everyone deserves that until/unless they do something rather dastardly, and she is also deserving of respect because of the way she has proven her intelligence and thoughtfulness on this board.

And btw, I don't particularly value humility or humbleness either. While I don't appreciate people who brag, I do have tremendous appreciation for people who have backbone and stand up for themselves, as Batya has done here. It is odd to me that you would assume that we all value the same personality traits.



Kim M.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:16:22 AM

You can't force anyone to actually respect you. But you can most certainly insist on being TREATED with respect.

Batya may not have worded her statement perfectly. But I don't blame her for refusing to continue a conversation with someone who speaks so disrespectfully to her. I would do the same thing.


You're right, Lucy. You can't force anyone to respect you, but you can earn their respect.

Now, I agree that people should be treated with respect, no matter what. And, I do try to do that toward most everyone. It doesn't always happen and we all slip up (well, I know I do). But, it's a 2-way street. Batya (obviously) didn't need to continue the conversation in this instance. At the same time, she didn't equally give respectful treatment.


Kim

lucyg819
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:38:33 AM

But, it's a 2-way street. Batya (obviously) didn't need to continue the conversation in this instance. At the same time, she didn't equally give respectful treatment.

Are you joking? I saw no disrespectful responses from Batya to MochasMom. I will just leave it at that.


LUCYG
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



Kim M.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:07:22 AM

Interesting, Kim, because I was raised very differently. I was raised to believe that everyone is deserving of my complete respect unless they give me reason not to respect them. It is not a gift, but a symbol of human decency. It is a profound difference that I suspect colors many of our interactions and political positions.
I can't speak for Batya's beliefs, but I believe she is deserving of respect both because she is human and everyone deserves that until/unless they do something rather dastardly, and she is also deserving of respect because of the way she has proven her intelligence and thoughtfulness on this board.


Well, I suppose that this answers my first statement. I guess that it is a matter of upbringing, environment, etc. I believe there's a distinct difference between treating people with respect and respecting them.

Probably the best example (since you brought politics into the discussion) would be President Obama. I very much respect the Office of the President. If I were to meet him, I would be very polite and respectful to President Obama. I believe that he's a good father and husband (I have no reason to believe otherwise.) I do not respect a number of actions that he has made, nor statements that he has made, as the President. If he were to approach me and demand that I respect him and tell me that he deserves it, I have the choice to give him that respect or not.

No person can demand respect and automatically get it. Just as no one can demand that anyone like you just because you deserve to be liked (general you). And again, I can treat a person with respect and dignity without respecting them as a person.


And btw, I don't particularly value humility or humbleness either. While I don't appreciate people who brag, I do have tremendous appreciation for people who have backbone and stand up for themselves, as Batya has done here.


I know a lot of people that have a very strong backbone and have no problem standing up for themself or for their beliefs, yet are very humble about where they came from, where they are, how they got there and what they have become. Being humble shouldn't be confused with not being a strong person. It's very possible to be both and many extremely successful people have shown that in how they live their lives.


It is odd to me that you would assume that we all value the same personality traits.


I didn't make that assumption. I know, for a fact, that we do not all value the same traits. lol, not even close. In fact, for every person on this board, I would doubt that any 2 have the exact same mirror image of what they value.

Actually, mamashosh, I would go so far as to say that some of this "respect" talk is even generational (to some degree, and not referring to every person). Words like "entitlement" were seldom (if ever) used as I grew up. We weren't entitled to anything, and we surely didn't demand anything...including respect. We earned what we got. If we didn't work for it, we didn't get it, whether it was grades, respect, a raise at work, an education, a house, a car, shoes...whatever. You earned it. Period.


Kim

Kim M.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:08:26 AM

Are you joking? I saw no disrespectful responses from Batya to MochasMom. I will just leave it at that.


Batya did not call her names.

And no, I'm not joking.

(btw, Lucy, please don't confuse this discussion of respect/disrespect as an agreement with what MochasMom has said. I pretty much don't agree with most of it. lol)


Kim

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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:17:55 AM

And I don't see that as condescending. Condescending is talking down to someone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That is such an old, old joke that comedians (possibly Don Rickles?) used in their acts. Unfortunately, I think you were serious when saying this.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh? Why shouldn't everyone demand the respect they deserve?
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Possibly it's different in your household, family or environment. In my upbringing, I was taught that respect is earned, not demanded and not deserved. That is why it is so easy to lose the respect of others...it's a gift that someone gives to you. I was also taught that the return gift for respect is humility and to have the respect of many should be humbling.

Batya, I respect your opinions, as you normally present them in a well presented series of thoughts to support your beliefs. I don't always agree with them, yet I respect what it is that leads to your belief.

I'm rather taken aback that you feel that you can demand respect and think that you deserve it. Like I said, in my humble opinion you have earned it from me. I think, though, that I lost a bit with these statements, on this thread. I really thought that you were a better person than that.


I see confidence in Batya's posts, too. We all deserve respect as human beings; no woman should be abused, no child or elderly person should be mistreated, that sort of thing.

Respect as it pertains to work is different. Employees should be treated with respect and dignity because they are people. However, they have to do their job well and earn respect as good workers. So some respect is owed to us as human beings-but in the workplace, respect has to be earned.

And Mochasmom, I used to feel the same way that you do about tattoos. I still don't like them, but I know some fantastic people with tattoos, including my vet. You are missing out if you automatically dismiss someone for having a tattoo. <shrug>

Darcy_Collins
PeaFixture

PeaNut 514,615
July 2011
Posts: 3,042
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Posted: 12/4/2012 10:58:39 AM
I've been out of town so missed this in real time - but I really have to point out - the start of the condescension hubbab post from bataya:



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Also follow along
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I won't be condescended to, so when you can speak to me with the respect I deserve I'll answer.


Is hilarious considering this post of batya's just a few days ago:


And it's not that the presidency is an altruistic venture. People who hold positions of high power are some of the MOST egotistical on the planet. They have to be. You have people saying he took the presidency B/C he couldn't get a big money job. Do you not hear how insane that sounds?

Can you guys please follow your own arguments? It's tiring posting my own side and reiterating what you are all saying as a recap. Thanks.


Which I found to be the height of condescension as a response to my post:


I really think the idea that the presidency is some sort of altruistic venture is hilarious. As President Clinton clearly demonstrated, it's not the $400K salary while you're in office. He made over $10 million in paid speeches just last year. He went from pretty modest wealth while president to an estimated $85 million in just a decade. A former president's wealth potential well exceeds almost every CEO (leaving aside a CEO who also founded the company ala Bill Gates). President Obama is not going to pinching pennies because he chose to be President instead of sticking with constitutional law - even assuming he wanted to jump into business with his Harvard LAW degree.

And for the record, I really don't care where the Obamas choose to spend their Christmas.



The reality is batya has no problem being condescending - which she fully demonstrates all the time. And yes, this comes from pea who has done my share of condescending - I own it. Trying and getting all high and mighty on a message board about being treated with request just looked ridiculous.


And while Batya didn't seem to understand it in the original thread - ie pointing out the fallacy in one's argument doesn't mean their on the "side" of the other person (which I had pointed out in the original message ie I didn't care about the Obama's vacation). I'll again reiterate - I don't support MochasMom and her bizarre discussion about tatoos - I'm merely point out that batya does her own share of condescending - and they idea that Mochas Mom asked to to "follow along" was some sort of high insult on this board that got her panties in a wad, was ridiculous as she'd used the exact same language a couple days ago.









batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.

PeaNut 59,094
December 2002
Posts: 32,824
Layouts: 24
Loc: up on my high horse

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:12:41 AM
I don't like being the center of attention, so I will try to wrap this all up neatly and we can move on-

Darcy- Here, she spoke to me as if I was stupid-follow along, like I was an idiot. Totally unwarranted.


Can you guys please follow your own arguments? It's tiring posting my own side and reiterating what you are all saying as a recap. Thanks.


On the post you quote, I will admit the condescention. I will also try to explain, but not excuse it. I was answering people who repeated made the argument that supported exactly what I was saying, then argued as if it was against it. So I had to point that out as well as what I was arguing. And it did become tiresome on my part.

That said, there was no condescending behavior from me, here on this thread, that warranted that kind of attitude from Mocha. I stand by that.

As for Kim, I have no reason to believe that everyone doesn't deserve respect and kindness, here and IRL. If you go out in the world and treat people badly waiting for them to earn kindness and respect from you, I can't really fathom how that would work. I'd rather start with everyone on top and let them give me reason to no longer have respect for them. Like with my children--I trust them until they give me reason not to. I'm with Shosh. Although maybe it comes from our Jewish backgrounds. We don't believe in Original Sin so everyone starts with a clean slate.

As for humility and modesty, you'd be shocked to know that IRL, I shun recognition and attention and preach humility and modesty to my children and live it as an example to them. Confidence and leadership go hand in hand with humility IMO. No better way. So while I believe in myself and know I can be the best at what I do, I show people through my actions and don't crave credit. So in that, we are in agreement.



OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.



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