S/O AA or other anonymous type orgs are cults?!?

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Posted 12/4/2012 by scrappower in NSBR Board
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scrappower
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:33:07 PM
I just saw this posted in the wine thread. I am not calling anyone out, just wondered if anyone else thought this and what the reasoning behind it it? How dies AA or other groups equal a cult?

I personally have seen these types of organizations help many people and feel they can do great things.



zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:03:03 PM
Hi Scrappower. Its ok, you can call me out on this.
Yes maam, heres more info: Lots of info about AA being a cult, with explanations, sources, and personal stories

I might as well be honest, I was an AA member. Drank heavily. Lost many things in my life. But as soon as I left my husband, the desire to drink is pretty much gone.

And, my sponser did try to run my life. She made it worse, and I was preyed upon by someone with more sobriety, and removing myself from the org was one of my best.decisions.ever.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


sugarcoated
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:09:07 PM
I didn't see the other thread, but the only people I know if who consider AA a cult are weirdo type Christians whose churches are worse than most real cults. My brother belongs to one - it also encourages him to stay away from his family and friends, refuse blood transfusions, refuse other forms of medical treatment too. They pick on AA because instead of praying to God, the members are permitted to have their own "higher power."

Funny thing...my brother is the direct recipient of a sober mother because of AA. Our mom has been sober for over 30 years, and is a sweet, God fearing, Jesus loving, Church going woman.

asr70
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:10:59 PM

I might as well be honest, I was an AA member. Drank heavily. Lost many things in my life. But as soon as I left my husband, the desire to drink is pretty much gone.

And, my sponser did try to run my life. She made it worse, and I was preyed upon by someone with more sobriety, and removing myself from the org was one of my best.decisions.ever.
This isn't my experience, exactly, but I saw it with others I was close to in my AA days. I got to a point where I had enough of the weird and I walked away.




zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:18:20 PM

I didn't see the other thread, but the only people I know if who consider AA a cult are weirdo type Christians whose churches are worse than most real cults. My brother belongs to one - it also encourages him to stay away from his family and friends, refuse blood transfusions, refuse other forms of medical treatment too. They pick on AA because instead of praying to God, the members are permitted to have their own "higher power."

Funny thing...my brother is the direct recipient of a sober mother because of AA. Our mom has been sober for over 30 years, and is a sweet, God fearing, Jesus loving, Church going woman.



Um, I am not a wierdo Christian. I am a Christian, who was being told things that actually mocked my faith. I am glad for your mother. But my sponser was telling me "how" to pray and when to pray. I was 13th stepped and got my ass kicked due to that, to the point I feared for my safety. I stopped listening to AA and started listening to God, and that is when my drinking problem showed big improvements.

You should really check out the link I provided.

**eta**** AA actually did isolate me from my family and friends, told me they were sick too, and if I did not remove myself from my support network, I would end up either in jail, hospitalized or just plain death. Very serious scare tactics. I had to reprogram myself, humble myself to my real life support system (family and friends) and I feared for my safety.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


teddyw
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:21:07 PM
I have a brother who cannot disengage himself from AA. It's been 12 years. He cannot date anyone or have friends if they aren't AA affiliated. He's cut off everyone in his life that is not involved in it. He comes to my parents for holidays after my sisters & i have left.

My dad was also an alcoholic. After rehab he too went to AA for 1 meeting. Said it seemed like a cult & never returned. He's also stayed sober for 20 plus years.

I'm going to forward this to my sister.

zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:27:08 PM
asr70, if youve been in the rooms, you know.

teddy w, I hope that site can give your family some peace of mind


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


obsidian
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:27:22 PM
I wouldn't say AA is a cult. It does however have a history of attracting manipulative people who use the 12 steps for their own ends.

Any organization is at risk of having in it those who practice predation and mind control.

Substance abuse organizations are particularly targeted due to the fact addicts are seen as easier to manipulate.

I took a classmate to AA for a few sessions. It was an eye opener the person leading the meeting was dealing. Sponsors expected to get free drugs. It was hellish. After the second meeting I was given a two month sobriety chip for being one of the only straight people in the room. In the end she went it alone which wasn't the best for her personality type but she had to get out of AA too much temptation.

zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:31:09 PM

I wouldn't say AA is a cult.


No disrespect intended, but from my experience, it is a dangerous, and sometimes violent cult. I was in the rooms for almost 2 years.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


ilovecookies
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:33:47 PM

I wouldn't say AA is a cult. It does however have a history of attracting manipulative people who use the 12 steps for their own ends.



This. There are crazies everywhere-in every organization and religion.



Ginger21
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:38:11 PM
I attended alateen, a group for kids of alcoholics that is part of the AA program. It gave off a very weird lifestyle vibe and begged my grandma not to make me go anymore. My aunt who took me was very sucked in.

obsidian
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:38:29 PM
Two years I'm impressed that you held out so long.

I completely agree that it's a dangerous and violent environment. I had to carry placebos and herbal tea so I wouldn't get mugged by 'recovering addicts.'

That backfired the novelty factor meant they got 'high' off the placebos and wanted more.

I'm more concerned about the over use of the term cult. It's getting thrown at so many organizations and regions now it's beginning to loose it's meaning. Which is completely off topic.

zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:41:51 PM
If you witnessed the things I saw in my year active in this group that calls itself AA you would be disgusted. The cult leader is "Mike Q" who is the dictator and nothing happens without his say so. It is the biggest young peoples group in the USA boasting over 300 members and operates in the DC metro area. The rest of the group is organized hierarchically by sober time and sponsorship by Q. These before mentioned have power of mating rights if you will, and they have all their female friends who sponsor young girls arrange everything. Many of the girls are underage. Young women have been raped by much older men. My old sponsor had sex with a 14 year old girl and he is in his 30's. He acted like it was no big deal. I mentioned to him that such things are wrong. He said "who says so", and I replied that the federal government and the state government said so. He then dropped the issue and started focusing on what "I" was "not doing for my own recovery", and to "focus on yourself and not on others"

Since this group is so vast that it is very attractive to those young people on the outside who cannot see past the veneer. Most of which could not be considered alcoholic by any standards. Most of them are 15 year old kids who got caught drinking. Parents have no idea what they are sending their kids to, especially the females. This is another example of AA by "force".

I left them about a year ago.

When I first joined they all seemed so nice. After awhile I started to see the signals of the mind-fuck that was going on. As it turns out the leader of the cult was stealing money from the group in the thousands to go on his own personal vacation with his underage flavor of the week. There was indisputable evidence to confirm this, yet still the "higher-ups" claimed this was okay because he was the leader and he saved so many lives. It wasn't till my sponsor essentially gave me the option to swear loyalty to this disgusting prick or leave. I chose the latter and am very glad for it.

Its just scary in hindsight how powerful groupthink and indoctrination can be. I did it all to be accepted, and am glad I left.

***********************************************************
Only one of THOUSANDS of personal horror stories. As far as my own, I have never talked about it to anyone outside of my circle, b/c of fear. Until today, here on NSBR. After staying off the site for about a year. I dont know why Im talking about it now.



I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:45:41 PM

Two years I'm impressed that you held out so long.

I completely agree that it's a dangerous and violent environment. I had to carry placebos and herbal tea so I wouldn't get mugged by 'recovering addicts.'

That backfired the novelty factor meant they got 'high' off the placebos and wanted more.

I'm more concerned about the over use of the term cult. It's getting thrown at so many organizations and regions now it's beginning to loose it's meaning. Which is completely off topic.



Obsidian, I was there for that long because the group and steps and traditions got to me. I understand you dont want to overuse or misuse the word cult, but for me there are no other words or terms that fit for description.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:47:04 PM
Ginger, hope your grandma did not take you back


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


TinaFB
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:51:00 PM
I think it depends on your area and the meetings you attend. I do think that it's a place that requires you to keep a mindset of sickness in order to fit in. You're defined by your past behavior for the rest of your life, which is unfortunate. You can be 20 years sober, but are still expected to talk about how alcohol affects your daily life. By 20 years, you really should've learned some coping skills that don't involve wanting to drink away your troubles.



Tina


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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:53:03 PM
The experiences here are not the experiences that people close to me have experienced. Sure the possibility exists but I don't think these experiences are global to the entire AA organization.

zzooter1
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:00:01 PM
ok, so it seems few people want to do real research on this here.
I wont delete what ive posted, (i know it would be bad pea form) but I do need to bow out now for my sanity.



I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


asr70
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:06:19 PM

You can be 20 years sober, but are still expected to talk about how alcohol affects your daily life. By 20 years, you really should've learned some coping skills that don't involve wanting to drink away your troubles.
This, I think best describes my thoughts / observations. I never experiences stuff like that Zzooter1 That's crazy. I don't know that people were dealing or anything. But, too, this was 22 years ago for me. I just remember this guy who had 3 years sober who wanted to buy a motorbike. He had always wanted one but had never been sober enough to save and buy one. He had finally started to save a bit from his work pay and his sponsor / friends kept nagging on him and publicly calling him out on his 'obsession' He gave up he bike and was just quietly dejected. That was around the time I just got so fed up and walked away. No idea what happened to him after. There just seemed to be no 'moving on' you know?

There is a lot of 13 stepping though. I remember that much.

And sometimes, dammit, "Fine." just means "Fine."




ramblin72
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:08:45 PM
i don't think there is anything wrong with AA and if you come across crazies, it's more so about the people, not the program. keep in mind AA is run by people who are trying to fix their lives....it can be messy of course

AA does have it's success and failure rates but still remains the most effective form of treatment. that and just doing nothing apparently as some people just grow out of it

deputydog
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:10:11 PM
AA has a number of the attributes of a cult, but not all.

I agree with what Tina posted, and also about isolating, etc. Actually, there are so many aspects of AA that ARE cult-like, much of it rather subtle, that it's hard to describe. Whoever said that you pretty much have to be there and experience it from the inside is correct, imo.

I appreciate the Orange Papers (that zzooter1 linked) but Agent Orange is so over the top with his hatred of AA that it's hard to read his stuff and take it seriously. Yet he's spot on with much of what he has written/collected at his website. Off the top of my head, the whole 'lizard-brain' thing is not something I agree with at all. Unfortunately, he is so vitriolic that he loses his audience. If you can strain out his rage you can get to the truths underneath.

So, I'm not exactly saying yes or no to AA being a cult. But it is definitely closer to yes than no, if that makes sense.

Margaret



obsidian
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:13:44 PM

By 20 years, you really should've learned some coping skills that don't involve wanting to drink away your troubles.


This is one of the big things I don't like about the AA system. Talking about how addiction defines life focuses a person on the addiction and not on moving forward.

I have seen good addiction recovery groups. My protestant church ran a good one. It didn't use the 12 steps people came and went based on need and were allowed to talk about future plans. If somebody was moving house they could join for the two months it took to move, so they stayed grounded.

ramblin72
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:14:08 PM

You can be 20 years sober, but are still expected to talk about how alcohol affects your daily life. By 20 years, you really should've learned some coping skills that don't involve wanting to drink away your troubles.


Putting it into context, a lot of that is reminding yourself that you were and always will be unable to drink alcohol so talking about it 20 years later is a reminder to yourself to not drink....not indicative that you don't have coping skills.

Having said that there are plenty of people who can drink again and plenty of people who don't need to remind themselves and cope just ok. As with most programs there are blanket ways of doing things to cover everyone. As intelligent beings we get to pick and choose what suits us best to our individual situation.

asr70
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:15:02 PM
What are the 'rooms'?




deputydog
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:26:50 PM

What are the 'rooms'?


It's just another way of saying you're in the program. Basically it's the meeting places-- church basements, social halls, what-have-you.

Margaret



scrappower
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:40:33 PM
Sorry I had to run out, didn't mean to leave this thread. I disagree with some of the things being said here. I think AA can truly be a benefit to many people. But of course some groups aren't going to be a fit or right or even healthy for some, etc. But I cannot agree with those that say it is a cult. I just can't. It has helped many in my life to be able to live their lives and break their addiction cycle.



scrappower
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:41:53 PM
And zooter, I am sorry you had that experience, but to say that your will to drink was gone only because you left your husband is a bit much to be honest. No one makes you drink, it is a choice that you choose to make. Just saying.



deputydog
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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:56:53 PM

No one makes you drink, it is a choice that you choose to make. Just saying.


That is actually not what AA teaches. According to AA, you are not able to make the choice not to drink, hence the need for the first three steps:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

The idea of AA being a cult may be an uncomfortable one as it has helped members of your family, but that doesn't mean that the program doesn't have cult-like tendencies. AA helped me, too, at one point in my life. That doesn't mean it's a great way of life or a healthy way of life. I believe it's just bad psychology. I'm talking about the program itself, not the people involved. Aspects of it were still helpful to me when I was trying to quit drinking.

Margaret



asr70
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:09:29 PM

It's just another way of saying you're in the program. Basically it's the meeting places-- church basements, social halls, what-have-you.

Margaret
Ok, I thought so but wasn't sure if it was something else I had forgotten about or had never heard of.




enjoytotheend
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:09:59 PM
I have thought about this A LOT actually. My mom was an alcoholic. She went through treatment. The alcohol screwed with her brain chemistry and then she had other mental health issues. But I don't believe in identifying people by their weaknesses. I get that it is good to acknowledge them but how is that powerful and positive thinking. I believe people are children of God. THAT to me is the most powerful title anyone will ever hold. Not I AM an alcoholic. Don't people really believe God has the power to truly deliver them from that? Even a recovering alcoholic is better than owning something you WERE. We all struggle. We are not defined by our mistakes. At least we shouldn't be. I thought about going to AlAnon before but now I am not so sure. I do however believe that everyone's journey is unique. If I go around saying I am a procrastinator HOW is that going to help me? If I say something positive and make it true THAT will change my cognitive behavior. That will change my thought process. I can't answer to if it is a cult or not. Those are just the issues I see.

obsidian
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:21:06 PM

And zooter, I am sorry you had that experience, but to say that your will to drink was gone only because you left your husband is a bit much to be honest. No one makes you drink, it is a choice that you choose to make. Just saying.


It makes perfect sense. If hypothetically she was drinking to mask depression over an unhappy marriage. Then once the cause of the depression left her life then the desire to drink to mask the depression would leave.

This is a reason why addictive behaviors can be termed masking behaviors.

A freind was addicted to pain meds, one day they stopped working so he was put on anti-depressants he got worse and worse and started having severe abdominal pain. I recommended he see a G.I specialist. It turned out he had been masking a serious G.I problem for years. Underwent surgery and stopped a 20 year pill addiction overnight. Even took half his prescribed meds for recovery because he no longer had that gnawing pit inside him.

FarmDPea
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:53:07 PM
Enjoytotheend and others, you may want to look into Celebrate Recovery .



asr70
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:57:47 PM
I quit drinking the way I drank when I stopped hanging around the people I hung around with. . I could still go back to the pattern, possibly, but I also took a look at why I hung around those people and why I drank and all that, so I don't think it is likely I will. I look at people who do and I just don't get it any more. This doesn't mean I don't have a problem when I drink but I now make a decison not to. Just like when I quit smoking.




obsidian
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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:10:14 PM
Slightly OT. I was reading around the Orange web site fan letters. And somebody mentioned love bombing.

I remember when my freind quit AA I was rung constantly to come back. I was upset as I hadn't given them my number. My freind caved and gave it to them. They kept at it for weeks. About how I couldn't exist without AA. How I wouldn't be able to stay sober. How they needed me to keep the numbers up.

Sent people to my house.

I told them I can make it without them. When a support person is told they need AA too, it gets a bit much.

Ginger21
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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:13:29 PM

Ginger, hope your grandma did not take you back



No, she didn't make me go and talked to my aunt for me. My mom was an alcoholic and tried to commit suicide by setting the house on fire while I was in it. I was 15 and moved in with my grandma afterwards. My grandma was awesome but they kept forcing me to seek help. I explained my concerns with alateen after a few months. My aunt just loved alanon. All her kids were drinkers and users. I think she liked the program to assuage any guilt. I love my aunt but she is a follower and gets sucked in easily. Same thing with religion. She wasn't strong enough to stay on top of her kids.

cocoanmom
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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:28:09 PM
I cant speak for AA as I was never a member. I attended some meetings with a friend and never felt a cult type feeling at meetings.I did feel like there were people there that were looking to pick up a date though. LOL!
I attended alanon for a few years and found a lot of it helpful. But it seemed once I was stronger in dealing with those in my life who drank I did not need to attend meetings.I learn some things and moved on. I think it can help some people like me....others like anything else can throw themselves in the lifestyle and that is the addiction now. That is all they talk and walk now.


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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:43:33 PM
Was it always this way? Or did people that "need" to be controlling get into it and take over?

I have seen in another group similar things occur.


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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:47:05 PM

Was it always this way?


I'm not sure. I know this guy gets a bit of the blame. Excuse the frothing by the web page. There are some pertinent points.

web page

peano
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Posted: 12/4/2012 6:15:40 PM
I've attended AA meetings as well as other 12-Step group meetings and have never seen behavior as dysfunctional as you all are describing, although I suppose it's possible, given how damaging the addictive experience can be.

However, this


When I first joined they all seemed so nice. After awhile I started to see the signals of the mind-fuck that was going on. As it turns out the leader of the cult was stealing money from the group in the thousands to go on his own personal vacation with his underage flavor of the week.


strikes me as preposterous, as these groups don't have thousands of dollars to steal from. The groups are self-supporting from individual contributions (in my experience) of $1-$5 per meeting, with the bulk of money collected going toward rent of the room.


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mapchic
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Posted: 12/4/2012 6:16:02 PM

I think it depends on your area and the meetings you attend.
This. In any large decentralized organization there will be a great deal of variety.

I have known people who were helped by AA, I have known people for whom AA was just the place where they met people who introduced them to harder drugs than alcohol. It depends on so much.

There is something of a cult feature to the whole 'recovery industry'. For some people it works and they are very, very happy about that and want to make it work for others... for others they need to go a different way (on their own, through church, with support of family and friends whatever).

I rarely drink (like maybe a cocktail 3 times a year) because I am from a family with a long history of alcoholism. However I have had friends cut off contact with me because I am not in AA and therefore would be a 'bad influence' and that's after I was the one friend telling them to try sobriety. That seems kind of cultish... the fact that if you are deep in AA you are almost not allowed to socialize outside of it.




"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown

“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit

BarreP
PeaFixture

PeaNut 46,619
August 2002
Posts: 3,900
Layouts: 42

Posted: 12/4/2012 6:27:55 PM
AA and Alanon have been a lifesaver for my family and many friends as well. The meetings I have attended and family members have attended sound nothing like what is described in some of the posts above. The idea of having a single, cult-like group leader is the antithesis of the 12 traditions, which promote rotation of leadership and includes tradition 2:

For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

I am sorry for those who have not found appropriate comfort and support in the program. It is a great solution for many people who are suffering, although certainly not right for all.

mstubble
PeaFixture

PeaNut 281,278
October 2006
Posts: 3,456
Layouts: 0
Loc: Northern Virginia

Posted: 12/4/2012 8:03:18 PM

As it turns out the leader of the cult was stealing money from the group in the thousands to go on his own personal vacation with his underage flavor of the week. There was indisputable evidence to confirm this, yet still the "higher-ups" claimed this was okay because he was the leader and he saved so many lives.


Did you report the theft to the police?



Parachute

Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?

bobomommy
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 190,378
February 2005
Posts: 2,448
Layouts: 31
Loc: Near Atlanta, GA

Posted: 12/4/2012 8:19:48 PM
My husband went through inpatient detox and a 10 week stay in residential rehab. They were required to attend AA or NA during their stay. Once released, they were told to go to AT LEAST ONE meeting PER DAY FOR 90 DAYS. It takes 30 days to develop a habit, right?

He continued to go to meetings every night for the next four years. During this time he would leave early in the morning for work and go straight from there to a meeting. As he developed close ties with others in the group he would then leave the meeting and go out to dinner with them several nights each week. Step work was done on the weekends at his sponsor's house.

As the weeks, months, and years passed we saw less and less of him at home. NA functions took precedence over other activities. His friends became more important than me and the children. After all, we couldn't understand him the way his fellow addicts could!

When a new woman at the meetings started showing an interest in him, he was convinced that she was the secret to happiness in his life. After knowing her for four months he told me he wanted a divorce. He gave up almost 20 years of marriage, did not want custody or a visitation schedule with our children, and only saw the children for a couple of hours every six to eight weeks.

Eleven days after our divorce was final he died from anaphylactic shock. The girlfriend said he was stung by a bee. It was after dark, when insects are not normally out. He had never even had a slight reaction to any type of sting. The death certificate said "probable insect sting". My kids think she injected him with something. I don't know what to think.

She did comment to my daughter while standing next to his body in the emergency room that she was so thankful he had signed a living will so everything would be left to her. For someone who claimed to be a nurse, she doesn't know what a living will is.

Long story just to say that I believe NA did more harm than good. The people discouraged spousal involvement and encouraged forming bonds with those in the program. I believe that if Jay had spent more time enjoying his sobriety with his family, our lives would be different today.


Suzette
Mother to Catherine (20), Zane (18), Kent (16)

zzooter1
PeaAddict

PeaNut 274,852
August 2006
Posts: 1,012
Layouts: 27
Loc: Sitting in call center hell. Working on the Autism Hotel ...

Posted: 12/4/2012 8:35:59 PM
Bobomommy,

Your story is my story, except I am alive. I am so sorry for what you have gone through, and so sorry for your family's loss. That woman is typical of what I have seen in the rooms.

For those who have had kind words (Margaret and Obisdian esp) thank you for sharing (and that is another AA thing)

I had thought about deleting my posts on this thread, but I am willing to take risks to be able to tell what can happen when these groups get ahold of you.

The lovebombing thing, is incredibly true, I had to change numbers and block calls from all the "we love you and miss you" calls and visits. I had to go (and still remain) underground b/c of these subtle tactics, that f with your mind.

And to the person asking if the police were called, I posted a letter from the orangepapers site, and yes, the police have been involved, but as far as resolution I am not sure.

And to Ginger, girl, so glad you held your ground b/c you would have been a piece of prime rib to these manipulators.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


zzooter1
PeaAddict

PeaNut 274,852
August 2006
Posts: 1,012
Layouts: 27
Loc: Sitting in call center hell. Working on the Autism Hotel ...

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:01:03 PM

The idea of having a single, cult-like group leader is the antithesis of the 12 traditions, which promote rotation of leadership and includes tradition 2:

For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.


You havent researched Bill W or the Oxford groups have you? And Margaret nailed it for me, when I left my source of conflict, the desire to drink left me. So, I have taken abuse, from AA and my husband, only to find I dont need to drink if I am not thrown under the bus.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


zzooter1
PeaAddict

PeaNut 274,852
August 2006
Posts: 1,012
Layouts: 27
Loc: Sitting in call center hell. Working on the Autism Hotel ...

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:14:53 PM
And its sort of funny this thread, if any pea took abuse from anywhere else, peas would be screaming "LEAVE" but since it is AA related, very few believe abuse would be related to this movement, so the blame is on me, but thats ok, I know WWTPD. Thanks all for for proving the point for me.
I know Orange is vitriolic, but he has BTDT, and I have too.


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


obsidian
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 300,909
March 2007
Posts: 2,338
Layouts: 1
Loc: Waikato

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:20:47 PM
Erm the He stuff for orange. It started out as a collective website with many contributors and editors. Several A.Oranges have been women.

Can we let up on the stereotypical He stuff. How about Shiz or Hir?


zzooter1
PeaAddict

PeaNut 274,852
August 2006
Posts: 1,012
Layouts: 27
Loc: Sitting in call center hell. Working on the Autism Hotel ...

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:28:06 PM
And I need to address one other point. Those peas who have people in their lives that aa has saved, are you taking that at face value, or have you gone to meetings to support said person? I changed to a womans group to avoid 13th stepping, and ended up worse. I followed the steps, and still got black eyes, and my sponsor told me to find my fault in the dysfunction.

Your second hand stories have no value to someone who has had to endure what group AA meetings do to your psyche


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


zzooter1
PeaAddict

PeaNut 274,852
August 2006
Posts: 1,012
Layouts: 27
Loc: Sitting in call center hell. Working on the Autism Hotel ...

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:32:38 PM
Obsidian, can you elaborate on what you mean by this


Erm the He stuff for orange. It started out as a collective website with many contributors and editors. Several A.Oranges have been women.

Can we let up on the stereotypical He stuff.

Is it a pronoun thing?


I put my heart and soul into my work, & have lost my mind in the process.~~ Vincent van Gogh


obsidian
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 300,909
March 2007
Posts: 2,338
Layouts: 1
Loc: Waikato

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:35:30 PM
Yeah. Orange is a Pseudonym for the editors and contributors of the web site so they don't get sued. Many have been women. It Irks me that everybody assumes that Orange is and has always been a he.

One of the best and angriest, was a she. I liked her a lot.
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