S/O My baby was taken back by the birth mother....
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 12/6/2012 by auntskiddy in NSBR Board
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auntskiddy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:54:56 AM
I had The View on, because I have a fever and am in bed, and this story came on. I then tried to do some research to find out more. I came across this thread and started reading

It was like a thousand stabs to my heart.

I lived in Utah and adopted the child from Pennsylvania where the termination rights are 45 to 100 days. We had him 2 months and the birth mom changed her mind. We tried for another month to get her to change her mind, but to no avail. We were warned this could happen but everything on paper pointed to it being safe. There was a 3 percent chance,and she was 24 and already had 2 children ages 4 and 5. The disruption happened 16 years ago last November 24th.

Reading the thread by Mapchic, I was shocked at how little sympathy there was for the adoptive parents. You have no idea how you would react until it happened to you. I didn't bring that child in our home to hope that it worked out. We were all in! He was our first and someone we had waited 5 years for. We loved him with all our hearts. I can understand why they fought for 21 months or 18 months or whatever.

They said on The View that the adoptive parents tried to get in touch with him and he didn't respond. I would hate to think there is a financial benefit for him to get his daughter back as was the case with our child.

For me it comes down to the child. Not sure the child would have been with the dad even if the birth mom had kept her. I think there should be some agreement between the dad and adoptive parents. Nobody wins in this case and the hope is that there can be a minimizing of upheaval.

So many more thoughts but I feel a backlash coming on for my thoughts already shared. I am open to questions if you have any.

Lynnette







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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:02:46 PM
No backlash from me, only my sympathies to you and your husband.
I cant imagine how you felt during that process.

I have a dear friend that I've known since kindergarten (we are now 39).
He and his wife did a foster to adopt and at the very last minute the bio mom changed her mind on giving up her rights and the court returned custody of the children to her.

The oldest of the 2 children was 4 and my friend's home was the 6th foster home he had been in!

Its a truly horrible event and I cant imagine the feelings of either party. My heart just breaks for all involved.

Thank you for having the courage to speak out about your experience.



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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:03:14 PM
I'm sorry this happened to you. This is one of the reasons many people opt for international adoptions.

I understand how invested you were and you bonded and loved your DS. Of course she carried him and loved him as well and it was an agonizing decision for her to give him up. So to say you tried to get her to change her mind about taking him back, I can't imagine how harrowing the whole thing was for all of you. I can't put myself in any of your shoes or say what anyone should have done. I really can't.

I researched adoption years ago, not b/c I couldn't conceive, but b/c it was something I wanted to explore and perhaps incorporate into my family planning and b/c of our laws I would never have embarked on a domestic adoption.

I am sorry for what you have suffered. I appreciate you sharing your story, knowing you may take a beating from some peas.

I would like you to expand on why you think the birthmother changed her mind only for financial gain.


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Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:06:47 PM
I have sympathies for you and my heart goes out to you, but I have none for the couple in the story. The difference is -- you gave the child back! If you read the story the father was completely duped by his horrible wife and he never knew what happened because he was deployed, as in serving our country. The couple did not try to find him until HE found the adoption agency. And they still didn't think they should give the baby back. Not to mention that they have 4 (or 5) kids already. So it's not like your situation at all. These people are vile. And while I do feel for adoptive parents and understand how much they have to go through, these people will never get my sympathy, ever.




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perumbula
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:07:08 PM
Lynette, my sympathies are wholeheartedly with you. What are terrible, painful thing for you to go through. I do see your story as different, however. You did not try to fight giving the baby back. It broke your heart, but you knew it was what was legally required of you and you knew going in that you were doing the adoption as legally and above board as you could. You were told all the circumstances and you knew it was possible that it could happen and you were ready to do the "right" thing when the mother asked for her baby back.

That couple in UT though . . . there are no words. I know they probably fell in love with that baby right off. But they knew the father had not given permission before they adopted the baby. The father asked for the baby (from what I've read) around six months and as soon as he found her. Those people kept that baby from her legal father for nearly two years knowing they had no legal right to the child. They are causing this child more heartache.

Your story, as heartbreaking as it is, is the story that family should have had.


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twinsmom-fla99
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:07:18 PM
I'm sorry for your situation. I can't imagine how hard it must have been.

But really, this case is NOTHING like yours! The adoptive parents knew from the beginning that the father didn't consent. He contacted their attorney after they took the baby and said he didn't consent. The attorney sent him consent papers which he refused to sign.

Go read the articles linked in Mapchic's thread, and I think you will see why so few have offered sympathy for the adoptive parents.

The Utah adoption system is seriously messed up!

auntskiddy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:12:50 PM
Thank you Amanda and Batya.

Let me clarify that statement. The baby's grandmother didn't want her to take him back. She was going to be the one to raise him as she was raising the other 2 kids. The birth father pressured the birth mom to take him back because she would get more in welfare benefits. More money!

We were able to go back and see him on his first birthday. We met the whole family on the porch. I think it was in Germantown? The grandmother and the great-grandmother, the aunt and the children were there. The birth mom did not show her face. It was helpful for closure as he was not the baby we took back. Still, that does not take away the pain we felt and can still feel at some memory that pops up, as reading about this story.

Lynnette






jediannie
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:13:02 PM
I too am sorry this happened to you. I can't imagine the pain you went through.

My husband and I are going through the process of open adoption and know that this is a huge possibility (for the birthmother to decide to parent) and the thing our agency has been stressing to us the whole time is that it is the birthparent's right to parent because it is their child until all rights have been terminated. If this were to happen to us, it would hurt immensely, but my hope is that I remember that it the birthparent's right to keep their child, even if it doesn't seem "right" to us.

At any rate, the Utah story about the birthfather fighting for custody is a tough one. Did the agency do its due diligence to find the birthfather? Did they put the child on the registry that's out there so birthfathers can look to see if they have a child? I've read a few articles on this and surmise that the agency did not do its due diligence and were deceptive.

It's tough either way, nobody really wins in that scenario. What a mess! I hope when we are in the final stages of adoption we won't have to deal with that. But, if we do, I hope I will make darn sure that everything is being done to contact the birthfather!

Sharon K
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:13:29 PM
This happened to my brother and his wife. They tried to conceive with no luck. Started the adoption procedures. Mom was 16, dad was a sailor with no interest whatsoever. Right after they brought the little one home and were much more relaxed, sil conceived. They had to reveal it to the courts and biological mom during the waiting time for adoption to be finalized. Biological mom said, "In that case, I choose to terminate the proceedings, return him to the children's home". Reason she gave, "I don't want him raised with other children" The home came out and picked him up.


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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:16:23 PM

That couple in UT though . . . there are no words. I know they probably fell in love with that baby right off. But they knew the father had not given permission before they adopted the baby. The father asked for the baby (from what I've read) around six months and as soon as he found her. Those people kept that baby from her legal father for nearly two years knowing they had no legal right to the child. They are causing this child more heartache.
This. My heart initially went out to the couple until I read more about it and learned that they knew pretty much from the beginning both that he wanted the baby back and that they were receiving the baby under false conditions. I lost almost all sympathy for them.

You, otoh, I feel for. Your situation is heartbreaking.




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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:20:02 PM

Not to mention that they have 4 (or 5) kids already.


To me, this is irrelevant. That's like saying to someone if their child dies and they have 3 or 4 more, it's not as bad when someone has an only that dies.

Now, if they knew the father didn't consent from day one, that's a different story. I couldn't sign off on a baby like that. It lacks integrity on the part of the birth mother and the adoptive family.

As for auntkiddy, you and I both know that welfare money over the life and expenses of a child is not enough of a financial compensation to make it worthwhile to have that child. What welfare gives you does not outweigh the expense of a child over their first 18 years.

I don't envy your situation at all. I can hear the pain in your words this many years later. I am so sorry.


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Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:27:50 PM

To me, this is irrelevant. That's like saying to someone if their child dies and they have 3 or 4 more, it's not as bad when someone has an only that dies.


Batya, I explained what I meant by this on the other thread already. Don't assume that I, or anyone else int heir right mind, would think that.




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Gennifer
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:31:16 PM
Lynnette, I'm so very sorry. I can only imagine how heartbreaking that was for your family.

I didn't comment on the other thread, but for me, a big part of it is that I am worried about what this does to an almost 2yo child. And, whether they were in the right or in the wrong, the Freis compounded the situation by dragging it out this long.

It's a horrible situation, all around.



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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:34:50 PM
You have to assume I waded through that 5 page thread which I did not. The way I read your statement, it sounded that way to me, which is all I'm saying. That's how you distinguished their cases, saying they already have more kids so it's not a big deal to lose one.


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Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:38:25 PM
It was obvious you didn't read the other thread since a few of us said the same thing. But to assume that anyone on this board, with one notable exception, would say something like that is a little ridiculous, don't you think?




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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:40:24 PM

a big part of it is that I am worried about what this does to an almost 2yo child.


I wonder who is truly concerned about that. Reminds me about the mothers who come to King Solomon. And the real mother gives up the child b/c she doesn't want to see harm come to him.


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revirdsuba
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:41:07 PM
Lynnette, so very sorry for you heartache.

The present situation in Utah is far different. The wife lied to the husband/birth father. the agency lied to the birth father, the agency told the adoptive parents that the birth father had not given consent Without consent the placement was illegal, period!

batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:41:26 PM
Look at what you said and how that can be interpreted. Now explain why it matters or how it is relevant that there are more children. To the life of the child who is almost 2 y/o that point is irrelevant.

ETA: Is it the adults we need to protect or the child? I'm not asking in snark. I'm not talking about legality. I'm saying that people are so caught up in what's fair and who did what. But where will the child be emotionally and psychologically best off? Is anyone taking that into account? The father? The adoptive family? The agency? The court?


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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:41:27 PM
I don't think anyone on that thread doesn't acknowledge the heartbreak that comes with an adoption placement falling through. Other women on this board have shared their incredibly sad stories. I cannot imagine how painful that must be.

However, the lack of sympathy for this particular couple comes from their choices and actions since the baby's father entered the picture. It is a completely different situation now.


the thing our agency has been stressing to us the whole time is that it is the birthparent's right to parent because it is their child until all rights have been terminated. If this were to happen to us, it would hurt immensely, but my hope is that I remember that it the birthparent's right to keep their child, even if it doesn't seem "right" to us.


I think this is a very emotionally healthy approach. A good friend of mine had this mindset toward their adoptions. The second adoption was very iffy. (the bio parents decided to parent shortly before the baby was born) My friend bought some baby clothing etc ahead of time and said "If she doesn't end up with us, we will send the stuff to them as our baby gift." Her attitude showed so much maturity and also respect for the bio parents. And of course she was also very sad and still misses that baby.



Sara


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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:42:26 PM
My sister is probably going to lose the baby that she has been raising for the last 2 months... The bio dad is seeking to establish paternity. If he does, my sister loses this baby she has cared for and loved for the last 2 months. I am heartbroken for her. I am devastated for her. But, legally, she and her husband have no recourse.

I sympathize with the pain that the adoptive parents would feel once discovering that the father wanted his daughter, but I can not understand refusing to give up custody. She is NOT theirs to keep. He has every legal right to raise her, and heart ache and sadness does not change that fact.


Mary

sugarcoated
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:42:52 PM

You say we don't know until we've been there. I can safely say that I would not use bad laws for my own personal gain and I would not dupe a human being out of their child. I do not want a dime that I did not receive on the up and up, let alone a human being that I literally stole from its parent or parents.

I also can safely say that should a birth parent want a child back, I would not fight for the child over the course of years.

As heartbreaking as your story is, you, in fact, did what most of us would do in that situation. The adoptive parents in Mapchic's thread are unsavory characters at the least and nutters at the worst.




auntskiddy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:44:14 PM
I am not finding anything that said they knew from the very beginning. There was one comment on the abc article that said the agency warned them. That could also be them covering their butts! It is the agencies and birth moms responsibility to get all that into place.

I found this from the adoptive parents:

"Leah’s birth mother, Tira, was married and living in Texas in 2010. She was trying to hold her marriage together, but in her seventh month of pregnancy, her husband left her without any money, a car, or details of his whereabouts. Needing to act quickly for the best interest of her unborn child, and with incredible faith, fortitude, and courage, she put her child up for adoption.

She had been studying the adoptive parents’ profiles at the adoption agency, and, as a devout Christian, had been praying over them for weeks—but nothing felt right. Amazingly, within minutes of our completed home study arriving at the agency, which finalized our application, Tira was hand-delivered our profile. She said she knew immediately that we were the family for her child. She called us right then, and told us through grateful and abundant tears that she felt completely drawn to our family, and confided that she felt she had almost seen in a momentary vision, as it were, her baby seated perfectly in the center of one of our family pictures.

Bottom line: she felt with all her heart that her baby girl should be part of our family. Within a matter of days, Tira delivered Leah on March 1, 2011 at the Mountain View Hospital in Payson, Utah, and per her request, we were again blessed, beyond words, to receive Leah into our arms moments after her birth.

Several months later, we were able to track down the birth father to serve him with our adoption petition. To our great shock and dismay, he objected to our petition and intervened to stop the adoption.

Over the last 19 months, despite the law requiring that a father show interest in his child and at least attempt regular communication to establish a bond, the father has never shown any interest in Leah other than to hire an attorney. He has never sent her clothes or toys, or even a gift on Christmas or her birthday. He’s never inquired into her health and well-being, or other details like when she started crawling, walking, talking, or cutting her first tooth. In short, he hasn’t shown any of the natural affection or interest of a parent. But because the child was conceived in wedlock, he can object to the adoption, forcing us to trial to terminate his parental rights. "

I think there is information that is out there that COULD be incorrect. I am just stating that I know how they felt and feel and understand the terror in their hearts.

Batya, I do understand the costs of raising a child and welfare doesn't even cover that. The point is, if that is all the money you are getting and you add some for another child, there is a benefit. The grandmother is the one incurring the costs as she is the one raising them. For the birth dad...just more money the mom can give him. Does that make sense?

Lynnette





gypsyz3
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:45:16 PM
Lynette,

Your story is heart wrenching. I can read the pain in your post.





*rosebud*
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:47:41 PM
This had to be so heartbreaking for you. I am sorry.


I lived in Utah and adopted the child from Pennsylvania where the termination rights are 45 to 100 days. We had him 2 months and the birth mom changed her mind.


As heartbreaking as your situation must have been, the birth mother was well within her rights, and you knew that it was a possibility. Adoption is NOT for the faint of heart (I am an adoptive mother with significant wounds myself).

I really think that it is incumbent on adoptive parents to keep their end of the bargain too. If the law is that the birthmother can reclaim her child prior to 100 days - then I think if the birthmother changes her mind before 100 days the adoptive parents need to give back the child immediately, no trying to change anyone's mind. Ideally, adoption should always be about the birth parents making their decision free of any coercion from their own family or the adoptive family. Most of the cases you hear about where people say "oh that poor baby! those are the only parents he's ever known!" happen because the adoptive parents choose to fight rather than to adhere to the conditions they knew about from the beginning.

I know none of what I just wrote is easy, but I do believe it is right for the most ethical adoptions possible.

I truly am sorry you went through that. I know that you lost your child (the child of your heart). The law is one thing - the heart wants what it wants. I get that

jalapenette
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:53:25 PM
It does state in the news article that the adoptive parents knew from the beginning that the father had not consented to the adoption, and that they decided to go ahead with it anyway. What you posted comes from the adoptive parent's website- it is their own biased side of the story.


-Rachelle


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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:56:21 PM

grandmother is the one incurring the costs as she is the one raising them. For the birth dad...just more money the mom can give him. Does that make sense?



Well, we both know that if the grandmother is raising them, she should also be getting the welfare benefits.


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auntskiddy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:56:46 PM
Gennifer, I actually agree. They should have given the baby back when they found out. I am not sure of when that was, but it definitely would have been easier on all concerned (not that it would be easy) if they had returned her to her birth dad earlier. Not sure of the information they were getting, legally, something about a law saying a person has to show interest in child.

My post was just to say that I understand the feelings behind their actions.

I had someone to talk to about their experience where they fought it for 6 months and still lost. She is the one that told me not to fight it, to give her back now before it gets harder. I do realize the birth mom legally, had every right to do what she did.

Mary Mary, if you sister would like to talk to someone who has been through it, I am willing. I know that helped me a lot.

Lynnette




Mary Mary
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:03:06 PM
Lynnette, thank you... I will let her know. We are still hoping and praying they don't lose him. But, it doesn't look good. They are waiting for the paternity results right now.


Mary

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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:06:12 PM

since a few of us said the same thing


I went back to that part of that thread. One pea actually said -- "they have 4 other kids. I don't understand why they would need this 5th child." You want to be in league with that opinion?: No one NEEDS any children. Why have two when you have one? Three when you have two. C'mon. That's ridiculous.


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Gennifer
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:07:52 PM

Mary Mary, if you sister would like to talk to someone who has been through it, I am willing. I know that helped me a lot.

That's a very sweet offer of you, Lynnette. I hope that my post didn't seem harsh. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you.



Captain K
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:10:38 PM
Interesting. You were one of the people I thought of when the whole "Mormons adopting black children from out of state" angle of the story came up. Obviously your story is a little different, but wow... interesting to hear it DOES happen more than one might think.

Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:11:23 PM

Look at what you said and how that can be interpreted. Now explain why it matters or how it is relevant that there are more children. To the life of the child who is almost 2 y/o that point is irrelevant.


If you can't be bothered to wade through 5 pages of the other thread, then I can't be bothered to explain it to you.
The OP clearly stated this is a s/o thread, and she referenced the other thread too. And most people replying to her have read and participated in the other thread so I didn't feel the need to clarify.
And I can't believe you still don't see that a normal person would not say what you think I said. *smdh*




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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:13:20 PM
auntskiddy I am so sorry that you experienced that. I am also very sorry that this story is bringing up that old pain. I think that everyone here feels a great deal of compassion for adoptive parents like you who deal with this kind of situation.

The story we have been discussing is very, very different than your experience.

I see here that you have found the adoptive parents website and you may be basing your opinion on this case on that resource only. You might want to read some other news coverage for a more complete perspective. In particular the one from the Salt Lake Tribune is very informative. There is a good reason that the adoptive parents have lost at every level of their court fight. They do not have the legal right to keep the child.

You naturally have compassion for and identify with the adoptive parents. Consider though the situation of the biological father in this case. His situation is very difficult and sad too. This isn't a case of a birth parent who said yes to adoption and then changed his mind... he never agreed to adoption and his child was adopted away from him anyway.


I sympathize with the pain that the adoptive parents would feel once discovering that the father wanted his daughter, but I can not understand refusing to give up custody. She is NOT theirs to keep. He has every legal right to raise her, and heart ache and sadness does not change that fact.
Exactly.

I would add, this is not only legally wrong - I believe it is morally wrong. They know that the birth mother deceived them and lied to the father of the child. Do they want to build their family built on lies and deceit? Is that the best for the baby girl?






"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown

“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit

CraftChickaPowPow
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:13:23 PM
no backlash from me Lynnette, btdt. It's not something I would wish on anyone - ever.


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moodyblue
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:14:29 PM
Lynnette, your children are beautiful. And I am sorry for the pain you felt and still feel.

No, we don't know everything about this case, but we have to read anything written by the adoptive parents with a skeptical eye - they certainly have their own spin on it all. I know you empathize greatly with them. However, other things we have read seem to indicate very strongly that the adoptive parents KNEW early on that the father had NOT signed away his rights - and they did everything they could to NOT hand over the child. THEY were the ones who dragged this out, delaying and fighting.

Most of the people posting on these threads feel the moral, if not legal by Utah' s crazy laws, thing to do would have been to hand over the child to her biological father, who DID want her, way back when they first found out he was looking for his daughter.

Mary Mary
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:16:16 PM
I agree with Gennifer... Honestly, when I saw the thread title yesterday I groaned because I have been hurting so much for my sister. And initially I felt so much sadness for the little girl and her family. But they have known that her father wanted her for over a year... It doesn't matter how much they also want her. She isn't available for them to adopt.

But, again... I am so sorry for what you have gone through and what my sister is also going through right now. I hope I didn't offend you on this or the other thread.


Mary

batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:17:32 PM
I did start going through the other thread. But I don't see how the number of kids in the family has any bearing on the effects on the child herself. You don't care to explain and that wasn't addressed, that I saw, on the other thread.

I can see how you argue it from the parenting perspective regardless of my agreement with that POV, but it has no bearing on the psychological well-being of the child and her adjustment.

If you don't want to distinguish what you said from my interpretation, then I'll assume that's what you meant. And as I said in a post farther up, I did read the posts on the other thread where you addressed that point, as did Annabella with her questionable statement, and Seanna. I didn't see a further explanation from you as to why it's relevant.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:20:34 PM

I went back to that part of that thread. One pea actually said -- "they have 4 other kids. I don't understand why they would need this 5th child." You want to be in league with that opinion?: No one NEEDS any children. Why have two when you have one? Three when you have two. C'mon. That's ridiculous.


I see you still can't be bothered to read the whole thing before you jump to more erroneous conclusions.




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batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:26:30 PM
I saw where you said it wasn't based on desperation and you could see it if it was. (Which I don't agree with anyway--immoral is immoral.) THAT STILL DOESN'T ADDRESS how it impacts or how it is relevant to the well-being of an almost 2 y/o child whether the family she is leaving or going to has "4 or 44" children.

I read what you wrote. It doesn't amout to a hill of beans if you would just address the question I'm actually asking. But you seem to be so taken by what you said on that other thread. smdh.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:26:46 PM
Batya, we are clearly posting at the same time which is causing problems.
The other thread and this one too deals with the empathy for the adoptive parents. The amount of children has nothing to do with the mental well-being of the 2 year old. And nowhere did I even suggest it did. In my reply to this OP, I mentioned the 4 kids because the OP had none, this was her first chance at having a baby, it was a miracle to her. If that had been the situation with the other couple I'd understand the desperation to hold on, just like the OP tried. It would have been the only mitigating factor in the disgusting actions.
So to summarize - the existence of other kids has nothing to do with the 2 year old, but makes the actions of the adoptive parents even more despicable. k?




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batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:30:40 PM
That's what I'm saying. It doesn't make it any more or less despicable. They knowingly took a child into their family without the consent of a birth parent and dragged it out while a toddler was making attachments to them. That they have other children to raise and love and he does not does not make a difference in my mind.

That they are not focusing on the children they have to put their energies into this makes me think less of them, but that's neither here nor there.

They did something immoral when there are so many children that need homes and this one supposedly has one waiting. IF they knew she had a father who wanted her and the mom was lying, they, the attorneys, the agency has no right to do this.

Now who suffers? The child.



OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:36:18 PM
I am not "quite taken" with what I said on the other thread. I was defending what I said here when you accused me of suggesting that one child more one child less is not a big deal (or whatever you said). So I don't understand why the hell do I owe you an explanation on a topic that had nothing to do with this conversation?? So NO, I WILL NOT ADDRESS IT just because you demand it, and I don't get why you demand it in the first place.




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Simply_Lovely
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:37:47 PM
We're still posting at the same time and it's turning into a clusterf$ck. That's how wars get started. I am done.
OP sorry for the hijack




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batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:41:17 PM
Look, I'm in agreement with you except for your reasoning, which you and I seem to be butting heads on since we disagree on the interpretation. I only asked that you explain that b/c you made such a big point of it being a reason and being explained. And my point is, that the child is the most important concern. And when it comes to the child, the amount of kids either family has in the case is totally irrelevant. Does that clarify?

What I'd like to know is, in your second post on this thread, you say 'one notable exception.' I must be missing something. Who is that?


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purpledaisy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:54:32 PM
OP, I'm so sorry for the painful situation that you went through. You are right, I cannot even comprehend the difficulty of what you went through. That being said, I have huge respect for you that you gave the child back (at great loss to yourself, I'm sure) and didn't drag out the process. That shows you were putting the child's wellbeing above your own. I cannot say that about the couple in Utah.


Becca

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batya
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:57:01 PM

That shows you were putting the child's wellbeing above your own. I cannot say that about the couple in Utah.


That's exactly what I took away from this. In spite of the fact that the OP probably felt that she could have given that baby a better, more stable life. But she didn't drag this out and make a more painful separation and adjustment in the end.


OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.




Captain K
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:57:44 PM
Is it very normal to adopt children domestically across the country? I guess those would be private adoptions? I am probably just thinking of the state system adoptions I am more familiar with, where they tend to be within a couple hundred miles at most. It just seems odd to me all this crossing states to adopt a child.

auntskiddy
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:36:16 PM
In Utah, I think it happens because of the whole "mormon" thing. We did because I ran into a woman at a foster care event that represented an agency in Philly. She said they had babies to place (children of color) and since I didn't care what color they were, we pursued it. There are tons of families adopting in Utah.

Hey, I did it before Angelina and Madonna. (and Sandra)

No offense taken by any of the responses. Especially my Utah peeps (or had carmel sauce in Utah). Thank you for your thoughts. I should have waited to post as it was a little knee jerk reaction. I still feel there is more to the story but I did read the article. I understand they were told that the dad did not consent, but, from what they said, the birth mom told them he abandoned her. It was 3 months when they found out he wanted her back. Granted, I may be biased from my experience. I recognize that. They may have made decisions based on false information. That is all I am saying.

I have said earlier that I believe they should have given her back. Mostly because they couldn't win and it would have avoided this situation.

On a side note, should I be weirded out by being on Captain K's radar?

Lynnette




pennyring
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:43:27 PM

Reading the thread by Mapchic, I was shocked at how little sympathy there was for the adoptive parents.


I didn't think it was a thread that was looking for sympathy, particularly. It was just a question of what should be done.

My sister and BIL are foster parents. They've adopted through foster care, and also had children taken away who they intended to adopt. I know first hand that it's gut-wrenching... but IMO, that wasn't what that thread was about. It just asked what should be done, so accordingly, I gave a simple answer.

Of course it's difficult and painful for all, but I didn't really think that was what that thread was about.



Captain K
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Posted: 12/6/2012 3:08:19 PM

On a side note, should I be weirded out by being on Captain K's radar?



Haha, well you've always had your family photo in your signature, and let's face it, it's a memorable photo. The two daughters dressed in white look sort of almost angelic! I love the updated photo though, they are really growing into beautiful young women, although the boys still look like cute little boys!
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