Another theater shooting. Go ahead, gun lovers. Please defend it.

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Posted 1/13/2013 by Kelpea in NSBR Board
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eight
PeaFixture

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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:32:47 AM
i have a concealed permit and pack everywhere i go & wouldnt hesitate to shoot some crazy asshole


I AM LEGEND

gar
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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:38:19 AM

And ok, take away guns...then what? How about nail guns, and chainsaws, and drills, and large knives...think a gun leaves a mess...picture a crazed, Kevlar protected man running through a building with a running chainsaw...if someone is nuts and wants to take out a mass of people, they don't need a gun, they just need to be nuts...how about cars? I don't mean getting in an accident with one...I mean, no gun, so lets take a car and look for a group of kids crossing a crosswalk and mow them down...it's not guns that are the problem.


When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?

They're all easily accessible yet, somehow it's always the gun that's the weapon of choice.





Today, I will be colouring outside the lines.


eight
PeaFixture

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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:42:16 AM
i was in China right before that nut job attacked the school with a knife.... if someone wants to hurt they will find a way!


I AM LEGEND

jodster70
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:07:56 AM


Well, you certainly won't get the OP to discuss that issue. She has a mentally ill son at home that she ignores so she can spend all her time being an attention whore on this board.


Yubon, you are nothing but a b****. It is absolutely disgusting that you would sink this low. You have NO idea what the OP does or doesn't do with her son, and neither do I. What I DO know about is the agony of loving someone with a mental illness, and not knowing how I could get him the help he needed. That was just my brother, not my son. I can only imagine the h*ll she goes through trying to help him and figure out what he needs and how to get him that help.

I truly can't understand how a mother who has a son herself could post something so spiteful and heartless.

This is an emotional subject. I don't agree with the OP, but I have posted something and didn't fully think it through because I was emotional about it, and got raked over the coals for it. We all do it at one time or another.

It hasn't even been a month, and the OP knows some people from Newtown, and the area is dear to her heart. Please, give her a break.

*edited*-- I would not normally use such strong language, but having had a brother with a mental illness, I know how hard it is. To see someone be so evil as to use that against someone is more than I can take.
.


**Jody**

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry

gar
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:09:53 AM

i was in China right before that nut job attacked the school with a knife.... if someone wants to hurt they will find a way!


How many kids died in that attack?




Today, I will be colouring outside the lines.


I-95
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:21:41 AM

Well, you certainly won't get the OP to discuss that issue. She has a mentally ill son at home that she ignores so she can spend all her time being an attention whore on this board.


That's a really disgusting thing to say, even for someone who prides themselves on their snarky comments.

*Maddie_Isabella*
PeaAddict

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Posted: 1/14/2013 3:22:06 AM
The title acts as if innocent people were killed in a mass shooting. I read the article and was all
I understand people are all "up in arms" about guns and control but seriously ask yourselves, when was the last time something was made illegal or taken away the end of it?
People will do drugs though it is illegal. Criminals and mentally ill people will find a gun, legal or not.
It's like the old adage of nailing jello to a tree. It can never happen.


*~Maddie~*

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BucketHead

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Posted: 1/14/2013 3:59:10 AM

Another theater shooting. Go ahead, gun lovers. Please defend it.


Cheap theatrics = total fail.


Well, you certainly won't get the OP to discuss that issue. She has a mentally ill son at home that she ignores so she can spend all her time being an attention whore on this board.



Disgusting. Shame on you!


tserenity
BucketHead

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Posted: 1/14/2013 7:28:42 AM

When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?

They're all easily accessible yet, somehow it's always the gun that's the weapon of choice.


Seriously?? All of the items I mentioned have been used in killing...not only here in the US, but in countries where guns have been banned...my point being that if someone wants to kill, they will...the unstability of the human being is incredibly sad on any given day...maybe we should just ban HUMANS!! In all seriousness, so many of you gun haters also overlook the facts that making explosives is easily done, and if you want to start comparing numbers, look at how many people are killed when a bomb goes off...start pulling numbers from both here in the US and countries where guns are illegal, or even when those on the black market might be available, but so are bombs and other large weapons...lets add up all those numbers! PEOPLE KILL...FACT! This argument lends itself right across the board to those of you who are anti war...lets pull our troops, sure, then when the fighting hits here on US soil, worse than it already is, when someone detonates a dirty bomb, or God only know what, then you can jump back on board, when the war is in YOUR backyard, and vote for an increase in tax dollars to fund our undervalued, under appreciated military.

And if you are looking for an innocent item used in a MASS killing...the lowly box cutter...death toll and casualty numbers? You look it up yourself, as I am not ruining my Monday by sorting through the saddening facts of 9/11



~Laurie~
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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:22:53 AM

i was in China right before that nut job attacked the school with a knife.... if someone wants to hurt they will find a way!


How many kids died in that attack?


Out of curiosity I looked. Chinese school killings since 2010

I believe I counted 25 total...none with a gun.

FTR, Wiki is not a source I would normally use but I don't have the time to research fully.


Laurie


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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:34:24 AM

Wow, I'm all for gun control, but really Kelpea? To call this a "theater shooting" is a disgrace to every single person who died in Colorado.
AMEN!



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Newbie2
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:41:48 AM
These kind of comments from 'responsible gun owners' really bring me comfort:

i have a concealed permit and pack everywhere i go & wouldnt hesitate to shoot some crazy asshole



the unstability of the human being is incredibly sad on any given day.



PEOPLE KILL...FACT


And those ^ are supposed to make me feel better about people packing?

I am in support of better gun control. I do not think they need to be banned, but there needs to be better control.

I do think the OP is misleading, but the gun man did go to the theatre with the intent to kill, and if the cops hadn't gotten there when they did, it would have been easy for him to kill innocent people.

As for the person that blamed mental illness...yes, that is a problem, but this story seems to have to do with some pi$$ed off boyfriend, not a mentally unstable person (like Newtown, etc).

Newbie2
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:58:21 AM

Really? You got this out of the story cited? or are you a mindreader of some sort about his intentions inside the theater?



Oh, so I assume YOU are a mind reader of some sort? How do you know what a pissed off boyfriend might do? I'm sure you may have heard other stories in the past about SO's killing each other, no?

alittleintrepid
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 1/14/2013 9:01:40 AM
I could be mistaken but, I think that the OP's concern is that the man attempted to pull his gun on the police. I don't think she's criticizing the police for apprehending him but, rather, noting that it could have turned out very differently. Carry on.

gottapeanow
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Posted: 1/14/2013 9:25:55 AM
This bears repeating.


and if you want to start comparing numbers, look at how many people are killed when a bomb goes off


Especially in light of this. Worse school disaster in the U.S. Ever.

ETA: And ITA with this:


Face it, the OP selected an article about an absolutely defensible shooting that took place in a theater and wrote an utterly ridiculous and misleading title to somehow further her anti-gun agenda. That kind of nonsense is not defensible.


Lisa


jacqab
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:36:01 AM

Another theater shooting. Go ahead, gun lovers. Please defend it.

Nothing to defend as this is crap.


And ok, take away guns...then what? How about nail guns, and chainsaws, and drills, and large knives...think a gun leaves a mess...picture a crazed, Kevlar protected man running through a building with a running chainsaw...if someone is nuts and wants to take out a mass of people, they don't need a gun, they just need to be nuts...how about cars? I don't mean getting in an accident with one...I mean, no gun, so lets take a car and look for a group of kids crossing a crosswalk and mow them down...it's not guns that are the problem.
---------------------------------------------
When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?

Sep 2011
Man used axe in Henan, China to murder 4 (1 child, 3 adults) and wound 1 child and 1 adult.

Aug 2010
Man used knife in Shandong, China to murder 4 (3 children, 1 adult) and wound 20 children and adults.

May 2010
Man used cleaver in Shaanxi, China to murder 9 people (7 children, 2 adults) and wound 11 others.

April 2009
Man used a car in Apeldoorn, Netherlands to murder 8 and wound 10 people.


You don't need a gun to commit mass murder.




______________________________________________________________________________

Before voting, read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy

Global warming brings prosperity, population growth, and relatively good health, as disasters go, it's the one we should pray for.
What is the worst that could happen? 1. It might end. 2. The ice caps might melt entirely.
But the True Believers would have us plunge ourselves into global poverty by breaking down the great world economic system in order to prevent a "disaster" that people in 1500 would have prayed for.

There are actual disasters that deserve far more of our time and attention.




purpledaisy
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:59:49 AM

Well, you certainly won't get the OP to discuss that issue. She has a mentally ill son at home that she ignores so she can spend all her time being an attention whore on this board.
I see someone has their b*tch flag flying high to post this piece of crap!!!


Becca

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Posted: 1/14/2013 11:41:33 AM
Yes Yubon is a bitch. She has used my daughter's mental illness against me.

But let's make it so only criminals have access to guns. I am sorry. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. People stab people should we ban knives now?


---------------------------------------------------------
AKA SASHA SAYS: "Embrace the Sass. "


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gar
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Posted: 1/14/2013 12:23:49 PM

And ok, take away guns...then what? How about nail guns, and chainsaws, and drills, and large knives...think a gun leaves a mess...picture a crazed, Kevlar protected man running through a building with a running chainsaw...if someone is nuts and wants to take out a mass of people, they don't need a gun, they just need to be nuts...how about cars? I don't mean getting in an accident with one...I mean, no gun, so lets take a car and look for a group of kids crossing a crosswalk and mow them down...it's not guns that are the problem.
---------------------------------------------
When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sep 2011
Man used axe in Henan, China to murder 4 (1 child, 3 adults) and wound 1 child and 1 adult.

Aug 2010
Man used knife in Shandong, China to murder 4 (3 children, 1 adult) and wound 20 children and adults.

May 2010
Man used cleaver in Shaanxi, China to murder 9 people (7 children, 2 adults) and wound 11 others.

April 2009
Man used a car in Apeldoorn, Netherlands to murder 8 and wound 10 people.





So in two different countries, in the last four years, these methods were used to kill 25 people - that's fewer than just one (the most recent) massacre in the US. Not that compelling as evidence.





Today, I will be colouring outside the lines.


gottapeanow
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Posted: 1/14/2013 12:47:21 PM
List of elementary school attacks around the world

It's not just the U.S. It's not just guns.

Lisa

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Posted: 1/14/2013 12:54:14 PM

And ok, take away guns...then what? How about nail guns, and chainsaws, and drills, and large knives...think a gun leaves a mess...picture a crazed, Kevlar protected man running through a building with a running chainsaw...if someone is nuts and wants to take out a mass of people, they don't need a gun, they just need to be nuts...how about cars? I don't mean getting in an accident with one...I mean, no gun, so lets take a car and look for a group of kids crossing a crosswalk and mow them down...it's not guns that are the problem.
---------------------------------------------
When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sep 2011
Man used axe in Henan, China to murder 4 (1 child, 3 adults) and wound 1 child and 1 adult.

Aug 2010
Man used knife in Shandong, China to murder 4 (3 children, 1 adult) and wound 20 children and adults.

May 2010
Man used cleaver in Shaanxi, China to murder 9 people (7 children, 2 adults) and wound 11 others.

April 2009
Man used a car in Apeldoorn, Netherlands to murder 8 and wound 10 people.




So in two different countries, in the last four years, these methods were used to kill 25 people - that's fewer than just one (the most recent) massacre in the US. Not that compelling as evidence.



Jan 10 2013 115 people

And this in a country where guns are readily available. It really depends on how much destruction the person is after.

Do I think if guns were somehow magically removed from our society, because lets face it, they could never all be found, that people would start building bombs in their basements and start attacking schools and shopping malls? No, not on the same scale to which we see shootings. But it will happen. And then what do we ban?

There are too many pieces to the problem to be so hyper-focused on one. And frankly, the hysteria being perpetrated on both sides is only making the problem bigger. People are covering their tracks so guns can't be tracked. Record of gun ownership is slipping into the ether as we speak. This idea that guns will be registered or round up and disposed of is a pipedream.


Christina

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gar
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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:00:03 PM
You're probably right Nightowl but I suspect that the stats would still show that guns are most commonly used when someone flips and decides to cause mayhem and carnage. I don't think anyone would deny that it's possible to commit mass murder with other implements but it just doesn't seem to happen on anything like such a regular basis.

Now, I swore I was going to keep out of these discussions since its not my fight so I apologise for getting involved again. I'll just continue to read from now on



Today, I will be colouring outside the lines.


leftturnonly
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:14:15 PM
The very argument that "It wasn't as many children killed with a different weapon so it doesn't count." makes my stomach turn.

More children or other innocent victims might be included in the next incident, like they were in this one. Neener neener?

From the Wiki link of school assaults.....

Cologne school massacre. Armed with an insecticide sprayer converted into a flamethrower, a lance, and a homemade mace, 42-year-old Walter Seifert entered the Katholische Volksschule in Cologne, Germany, and opened fire on female students playing in the courtyard. He then knocked in classroom windows with his mace and fired inside. Eight children and two teachers died, and twenty children and two teachers suffered injuries of severe burns. After swallowing poisonous insecticide E605, Seifert died the following day, while in custody.



The first school assault on the list was from the time of our founding as a country (not that that has anything to do with why Americans included the right to bear arms) and the weapons used were tomahawks. 10-11 died and 2 children survived after being scalped.





If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



jacqab
AncestralPea

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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:21:25 PM

So in two different countries, in the last four years, these methods were used to kill 25 people - that's fewer than just one (the most recent) massacre in the US. Not that compelling as evidence.

Seriously? Where did I even imply that this was all that were murdered with things (weapons) other than guns? You asked "When the last time a massacre occured using any of those things?"

so I posted times when an axe, a knife, a cleaver, and a car were used to massacre people. I didn't post all or even close to most, you didn't ask for all massacres.


That would be assuming that these are not just examples, but the entirety of multiple murders committed. I doubt that's the case. I dont' think she meant those examples to be the totality of murders. I would be surprised if a country as large as China has so few murders with some sort of weapon that we have seen a complete list.

You are right.


You're probably right Nightowl but I suspect that the stats would still show that guns are most commonly used when someone flips and decides to cause mayhem and carnage. I don't think anyone would deny that it's possible to commit mass murder with other implements but it just doesn't seem to happen on anything like such a regular basis.

Depends on what you mean by common and where. Bombs and airplanes have actually done more mayhem and carnage then any gun.


The very argument that "It wasn't as many children killed with a different weapon so it doesn't count." makes my stomach turn.

I agree.


______________________________________________________________________________

Before voting, read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy

Global warming brings prosperity, population growth, and relatively good health, as disasters go, it's the one we should pray for.
What is the worst that could happen? 1. It might end. 2. The ice caps might melt entirely.
But the True Believers would have us plunge ourselves into global poverty by breaking down the great world economic system in order to prevent a "disaster" that people in 1500 would have prayed for.

There are actual disasters that deserve far more of our time and attention.




Georgiapea
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:37:49 PM
Defend what? Man was sitting in theatre with a gun visible in his lap. Police come in and man reaches for gun. Police fire first. Seems reasonable to me.

Kelpea
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:41:34 PM
Oopsie. I was out of pocket yesterday.

And yeah, I posted the title, but it was because I was so upset. I was just thinking about how those poor folks were hiding on the floor, inching their way to the exit doors, etc. I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I still don't see how it's okay to have guns when there's so much anger in the world.


I could be mistaken but, I think that the OP's concern is that the man attempted to pull his gun on the police.


That, too.

And wow, Yubon. You're a fucking bitch. I used to listen to you but no longer. You are on ignore now. Yay! My first ignore ever. I have always wondered why you run hot and cold. Bi-polar perhaps? You smug asshole.



auntkelly
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:49:14 PM
I agree that people that want to kill will find a way to do so regardless of whether guns are available.

My aunt was a key player in an incident in Houston in 1959 in which a suitcase bomb was detonated on a playground and killed 6 people and wounded 19 others. If my aunt had not reacted calmly when the bomber approached her, her entire class might have been killed. As it was, she talked the bomber into allowing her to send most of her kids to the safety of her classroom before the bomber detonated the bomb.

The death count at Culumbine would have been much worse if the bombs the shooters tried to detonate had gone off.

In my hometown of Oklahoma City, a bomb made of readily available materials killed 168 people.


Ginny

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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:50:33 PM

In my hometown of Oklahoma City, a bomb made of readily available materials killed 168 people.


Including babies and toddlers in a day care.






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tserenity
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Posted: 1/14/2013 3:01:45 PM

And I still don't see how it's okay to have guns when there's so much anger in the world.


I feel I need to repeat...why is it so hard for those of you who are so damn anti gun, to recognize the simple fact that to many, MANY people, guns are both tools and important ones at that!! Every time I read or hear someone say that guns have no use, I really want to slap them silly...come live my life, or a farmers, or someone that lives any lifestyle where they hunt to provide for themselves and their families needed food...how about all of the whitetail deer for example, that hunters, both rural livers and city dwellers, harvest each year... Take away the hunting of just that one species, and the backlash on society would be devastating...the spread of disease, the unmitigated number of deaths caused by vehicle/deer collision would explode, the loss of revenue to the state DNR programs, etc., etc., ...some of you just don't seem to have a brain in your head to connect the dots...it sort of reminds me of the lady who stated how terrible hunters are, that they should shop in the grocery stores like everyone else for their meat, so no animals need to die....duh!!




mapchic
Top Tier Pea

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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:02:14 PM

I can't get my head around why it's okay to have them and go to a movie theater with one to do damage to another human being.
Where has anyone ever said that it is 'okay' to bring a gun into a movie theater with the intention of doing damage to another human being?


Simply put, more guns isn't going to help. The frenzy to buy more guns is not the answer. That someone thinks that they have to frantically go out and buy more guns because they might be taken away is completely illogical. There is no excuse for buying more guns. What excuse could there be? None. I know that my opinion is not popular here, but I don't care. I hear about people buying more guns out of fear and I feel like an alien because it's so foreign. People don't need guns, to think that people do and are frantically add more guns to the problem just blows my mind.
Simply put - more guns aren't going to hurt either. Guns are not the problem. Criminals and crazy people are the problem.

It is totally logical to respond to a future shortage by stocking up today. All the talk of banning guns or new extreme gun control laws makes people reasonably decide that if they are going to ever want guns, magazines or ammunition they need to get it now while the getting is good.

Remember a couple of months ago when Hostess went bankrupt and stopped production? People went out and stocked up on Twinkies etc. because they knew they would no longer be able to get them. Same thing here.

You may not need or want guns... but lots other people live lives very different from you. What gives you the right to judge other people's lives? Some people need guns, some want guns. They all have the right to own them. It is a basic civil right here in America and it is wrong for anyone to think that they have the ability or right to strip others of their civil rights.



I still don't see how it's okay to have guns when there's so much anger in the world.
Do you think that getting rid of guns will get rid of anger?





"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown

“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit

jodster70
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:09:03 PM

And yeah, I posted the title, but it was because I was so upset.


Yep. That's what I thought.

(((Hugs))) Kelly.


**Jody**

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry

WannaPea
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:13:20 PM

What gives you the right to judge other people's lives?
I'll remember you said that.


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I-95
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:15:02 PM

I feel I need to repeat...why is it so hard for those of you who are so damn anti gun, to recognize the simple fact that to many, MANY people, guns are both tools and important ones at that!! Every time I read or hear someone say that guns have no use, I really want to slap them silly...come live my life, or a farmers, or someone that lives any lifestyle where they hunt to provide for themselves and their families needed food...how about all of the whitetail deer for example, that hunters, both rural livers and city dwellers, harvest each year... Take away the hunting of just that one species, and the backlash on society would be devastating...the spread of disease, the unmitigated number of deaths caused by vehicle/deer collision would explode, the loss of revenue to the state DNR programs, etc., etc., ...some of you just don't seem to have a brain in your head to connect the dots...it sort of reminds me of the lady who stated how terrible hunters are, that they should shop in the grocery stores like everyone else for their meat, so no animals need to die....duh!!


Y'know, in the entire debate about guns, over several threads, and several days, I haven't heard more than a couple of people say they want to outright ban guns. First of all, it would require a Constitutional Amendment....not going to happen, so there's no point in discussing a total ban.

When someone laments...


And I still don't see how it's okay to have guns when there's so much anger in the world.


They're not calling for a total ban on guns. They're just lamenting the fact that there are too many guns, owned by too many people, who use them to kill other people.

The poster who said that didn't say a single word about whether she supported a total ban, she didn't say she just wanted certain people to have guns, she made no statement one way or the other. I think maybe you're reading too much into her words.

I haven't seen a whole slew of people making declarative statements about removing guns from the entire population. If someone was stupid enough to ask why you don't buy meat in the grocery store like everyone else, I find that as idiotic as you do. Apart from that person, I don't think any of us have trouble wrapping our heads around the fact that farmers need and use guns as part of their occupation. I don't see people arguing that folks, who live in the city and go hunting on weekends, shouldn't be allowed to have guns. I don't see anyone saying that people who like to target shoot for sport, shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Wrapping our heads around that is not a problem, surprisingly enough, we are smart enough to connect the dots.

What I do see people saying is 'not everybody who wants a gun has a need for one, and can we do something about that. I see people saying 'Does anybody really need to own a semi-automatic?' I see people saying they're tired of people dying by the gun, when a lot of those deaths would be preventable with some sensible laws in place.

Folks can go on and on about murders committed with knives or bombs or baseball bats, the fact is there will ALWAYS be homicides. Nothing is going to change that, but there'd be a lot fewer of them, without such easy access to guns by people who had no good reason to have on in the first place.

mapchic
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:30:24 PM

What I do see people saying is 'not everybody who wants a gun has a need for one, and can we do something about that. I see people saying 'Does anybody really need to own a semi-automatic?' I see people saying they're tired of people dying by the gun, when a lot of those deaths would be preventable with some sensible laws in place.
Who decides who has a need for a gun?

Take out the idea of gun ownership and insert any other civil right protected by the constitution. 'not everybody who wants to vote has a need to vote, and we can do something about that' or 'not everybody who wants freedom of speech has a need for freedom of speech and we can do something about that'.

The second amendment isn't about hunting or target shooting or collecting - though those are all reasons that some people want or need guns. The second amendment is about the basic human right to self defense.




Folks can go on and on about murders committed with knives or bombs or baseball bats, the fact is there will ALWAYS be homicides. Nothing is going to change that, but there'd be a lot fewer of them, without such easy access to guns by people who had no good reason to have on in the first place.
Come to beautiful Chicago! A city where it is basically illegal to have guns (totally banned from 1982 until 2010 and very, very difficult to legally own since 2010).

If strict gun control means there would be a lot fewer homicides I guess nobody told the murderers in Chicago. Last year there were over 500 murders (more than 450 committed with guns) and so far in Chicago as of January 14 I believe there have been 18 murders.





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*Angela
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:35:39 PM
Just another knee-jerk, inflammatory, us-vs-them, self-righteous, attention-seeking post from the OP about the current sensitive topic of the day. The OP predictably shows no sensitivity toward the actual victims, those who lost loved ones, or people with differing beliefs & fails to offer suggestions to solve the problem - only hurls meaningless labels & accusations. Ugh...

Nevertheless, glad neither innocent people nor emergency personnel were harmed in this public suicide. As an article I recently read opined, the people who, in the past, would sadly & quietly kill themselves alone in their basements now head for the streets in hopes of receiving the attention in death, given the 24/7 media & online social networks, they never received alive. Unfortunately, the author may be correct... How do we as a society address the underlying issues that cause disgruntled (primarily) males to choose to inflict fear & casualties (whether by gun, knife, bomb, etc.)?

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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:52:31 PM
The sheer mudslinging bitchiness on this thread is scary.

How about the OP amending the title? "Please defend it" - REALLY??

How about........ YOU defend writing this combative post? Have you resolved anything? Looks like you just ripped off the bandaid for no good reason. Not cool. Where I come from, people call this "part of the problem and not the solution."



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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:59:14 PM

But there was a thread of tension and urgency that could be felt. It's bad...


People are really scared. They're afraid the gun ban is going to come and they're going to be left without protection. The emotion is high and the protection instinct in full flame. Every day it feels like a tight rope. Waiting for the next shoe to drop. I hate it.



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CountryHam
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Posted: 1/14/2013 5:03:33 PM

. People stab people should we ban knives now?


Try and board a plane with a knife and see if they haven't made
tighter controls and bans on knives in some situations.

tserenity
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Posted: 1/14/2013 5:05:32 PM

Y'know, in the entire debate about guns, over several threads, and several days, I haven't heard more than a couple of people say they want to outright ban guns. First of all, it would require a Constitutional Amendment....not going to happen, so there's no point in discussing a total ban.


Nice to know you think it's not an important issue, while I on the other hand have heard many people, both here and other places, bring up that exact issue, so to me, it is important I95...and even if it were only a couple, I value my right to own and use guns enough, that those few crazies scare me!!



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Posted: 1/14/2013 5:09:35 PM
Sigh. This thread was exhausting to read through.


Angie

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Posted: 1/14/2013 6:07:22 PM

But there was a thread of tension and urgency that could be felt. It's bad...



People are really scared. They're afraid the gun ban is going to come and they're going to be left without protection. The emotion is high and the protection instinct in full flame. Every day it feels like a tight rope. Waiting for the next shoe to drop. I hate it.


Exactly!

Every day the tension is growing. Ammo is gone and people are thinking it's never going to be available again, or at best it's going to be very scarce for some time.









If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



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Posted: 1/14/2013 6:28:31 PM

One would almost think the administration wants turmoil in the country.


This is what I'm hearing here.






If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



I-95
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Posted: 1/14/2013 6:50:42 PM

And how do we judge who NEEDS a gun? Who is going to be the judge of that? what other constitutional right do we have to demonstrate a NEED to exercise?


Nightowl, that's a fair question, and one to which I don't have an answer. The thing I most often hear people saying is 'I need it for protection'. And who could argue with that? I seriously doubt we're going to hear proposals for a check list...'You must answer yes to 8 of the following 12 questions before you can buy a gun'

The thing that I do know is a lot of people who own guns don't actually 'need' them for protection. DH and I are living proof of that. Until our house got robbed, and they stole the gun cabinet, with 8 guns inside, we didn't think twice about owning guns. We had both grown up around them, DH has a C & C, I don't, but we have both spent a lot of time at the shooting range. I lived in the Middle East for a couple of years and carried an Uzi, which I'm fully qualified to shoot. I grew up on a ranch and had guns from childhood....BUT in our lives today, did we NEED them? No. Our house got robbed during the day, nobody was home, so there was no confrontation with the offenders. Our home is now protected with a silent alarm to the security company, video surveillance, and motion detectors....We could still be subjected to an intruder while we were home, but if we had guns, they'd be locked in a cabinet anyway.

I asked, on what I think was the original gun thread, how many people had actually been a victim of a violent crime, the type that would make one say 'I HAVE to have a gun to protect myself' and I *think* only one person said they had. However, if a person thinks they need a gun for protection, go for it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with that. I don't think anyone's right to arm themselves should be taken away. I'm not sure they have to have 8 guns, like we did, or arm themselves as though they were defending a small nation, or that they require a 30 round semi-automatic to do it.

Listen, I don't claim to have the answers to this, nobody does, not even you. I am like a huge number of people...just plain citizens who hadn't given this a lot of thought before the tragedy at Sandy Hook. We are now struggling with the reality of what America has become, and not liking it. I feel as helpless as the next guy to understand it all, but to do nothing, or say nothing, feels worse.

I-95
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Posted: 1/14/2013 7:22:26 PM

Nice to know you think it's not an important issue, while I on the other hand have heard many people, both here and other places, bring up that exact issue, so to me, it is important I95...and even if it were only a couple, I value my right to own and use guns enough, that those few crazies scare me!!


I'm sorry, exactly where was it that I said it wasn't an important issue? Did I say anywhere in my post that you don't have a right to own and use your guns? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I defended those rights.

I've read every single post, on every single gun thread that has been posted on this board in the last few weeks, and I stand by the fact that a only tiny number of people have stated they were in favor of an outright ban on guns. You mentioned you had heard many people "both here and other places' express that sentiment. I respectfully suggest it might have been those "other places". I do know there are other sites out there where folks from both sides of the issue are quite frankly, batshit crazy.

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

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Posted: 1/14/2013 7:50:19 PM

ut again, why should anyone need to justify exercising a constitutional right? Why should anyone judge whether their justification is 'okay'. if someone doesn't 'need' a gun for protection, then what? On what basis will you deny them their right to keep and bear arms? What do they have to show to exercise their right? You are still talking about whether people can justify the exercise of their constitutional right, instead of how we look at every other right in saying 'what does the government have to show in order to restrict this right'?

feel as helpless as the next guy to understand it all, but to do nothing, or say nothing, feels worse.

good law isn't based on emotion, it is based on facts, on logic, on research. Doing nothing is preferable to doing the wrong thing. We need to get this right, not just do something to 'do something'.


Hello? Did you read what I wrote? I could have sworn I was fairly clear when I said ....


However, if a person thinks they need a gun for protection, go for it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with that. I don't think anyone's right to arm themselves should be taken away.


I didn't say ANYTHING about anyone having to justify their rights. In fact, I said this...


The thing I most often hear people saying is 'I need it for protection'. And who could argue with that? I seriously doubt we're going to hear proposals for a check list...'You must answer yes to 8 of the following 12 questions before you can buy a gun'


Just because the Constitution says you have the right to bear arms, should that mean everyone has the right to arm themselves to the teeth? Does it mean amassing an arsenal like they had at Waco? Seriously, I understand your defense of the 2nd amendment. I understand your right to bear arms, what I'm looking for in my fellow citizens, and my Government, is some common sense, a starting place, a conversation, but all you really seem to do is dig in deeper any time anyone suggests an alternative.

I also am well aware that good laws shouldn't be based on emotions...but it didn't stop the Bush Administration from dumping the Patriot's Act on us. It didn't stop the crazy no-fly lists, it didn't stop illegal wire taps on the citizens of Florida as the Govt's paranoia ran rampant. It didn't stop us boarding a flight with shoes on one day, and having to get them X-rayed the next. Many, many laws were rushed into place to 'protect' us, some good, some bad. Over the years Homeland Security and TSA have smoothed out some of the bumps....so while I agree a good law is better than a bad one, we have had time, and SCOTUS, molding and modifying laws pertaining to almost everything, and they can do the same with a gun law.

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Posted: 1/14/2013 7:50:42 PM

This is something I've been thinking about in the past few days. Thoughts?

Agree completely.



I understand your right to bear arms, what I'm looking for in my fellow citizens, and my Government, is some common sense, a starting place, a conversation, but all you really seem to do is dig in deeper any time anyone suggests an alternative.


I think this issue is a lot like the abortion issue, give an inch, they'll take a mile. Maybe not right away but eventually. It won't be enough. Someone will do something crazy in spite of a certain gun or magazine ban and then they'll need more laws and more types of guns and magazines banned. Until eventually they're all banned.

Kind of like abortion. Ban at a certain month and the months will keep getting lower for abortions allowed until all abortions are banned.



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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:04:10 PM

I think this issue is a lot like the abortion issue, give an inch, they'll take a mile. Maybe not right away but eventually. It won't be enough. Someone will do something crazy in spite of a certain gun or magazine ban and then they'll need more laws and more types of guns and magazines banned. Until eventually they're all banned.


Except that abortion was decided on a court case and the second amendment specifically grants the right to arms. To completely ban guns we would need a constitutional amendment and that just will never happen.

tserenity
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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:04:17 PM
Hey I95, you see, my point was/is...even if one person said it, then yeah, it's debatable...why are you the chosen one to tell others it's not worth debating...talk about bat shit crazy



I-95
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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:36:36 PM

[My 9th Pea Anniversary -*-* <div style='margin:5px;'>This badge is earned by being awesome. Oh, and being here for more than 9 years. </div>]
Posted: 1/14/2013 8:08:12 PM
Yes, I-95, I read what you wrote. When you say

However, if a person thinks they need a gun for protection, go for it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with that. I don't think anyone's right to arm themselves should be taken away.

I am hearing 2 things: you are pronouncing your opinion that it's 'okay' if a person thinks they need a gun for protection. But implied in that is that there are other reasons that might not prompt you to say 'go for it'. Yes, I acknowledge you saying you don't think anyone's right to arm themselves should be taken away. But you also said

The thing that I do know is a lot of people who own guns don't actually 'need' them for protection.

and

I'm not sure they have to have 8 guns, like we did, or arm themselves as though they were defending a small nation, or that they require a 30 round semi-automatic to do it.

The implication is there that you perceive the appropriateness or relevance of a judgment call about 'need' (particularly when you put it in quotes) and number of guns being somehow up for discussion.

I don't think you realize that the idea of justifying what guns or how many or 'need' is still in your thought process, or at least that is how it comes across in what you are posting.


Actually, I think I'm just asking/saying/wondering exactly that. How many guns does one person need? What kind of gun do they need. And I do think it has to do with need. I don't think I 'need' one. I don't think a lot of people do, However, I also think, that if you think you need one, that you should not be denied that right. One can't reasonably discuss gun control if one party doesn't think there should be any controls at all. Is that what you think? Because if it is, I'll quit imagining there's a discussion going on.

Fortunately, I'm not the one who has to work out the details of whatever plan might be proposed. Hopefully better qualified folks will be responsible for that.

Oh, I think where you might be having difficulty with what I think/say, is that I, personally, just me, am more than happy to choose not to own a gun, or for someone to make me jump through a few more hoops should I decide I do want one. If it would in any way stop the violence...and I'm not talking particularly about Sandy Hook type violence, I'm talking about the hot head who gets drunk, fires off his gun on 4th of July, and accidentally kills a child. Or a normally sane banker who has a gun at home for protection, but finds out his wife has been cheating on him, and in a rage, shoots her to death. Kids who find dad's gun and play cowboys and Indians. You can't stop them buying guns, but you could make it harder for them to own one. We could make the requirements for owning one an intensive training course...there are things that can be done, and should be done, because if a weapon wasn't available at that split second someone loses their mind, there's be a lot of folks still breathing.

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Posted: 1/14/2013 8:45:06 PM

And I still don't see how it's okay to have guns when there's so much anger in the world.



It's okay because it is LAW.



----Theresa
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