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Luvnlifelady
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 289,166
December 2006
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 |  Posted: 1/27/2013 8:59:55 PM
DH and I got into a conversation today while on our geocaching date. It was about the 45 year old twin brothers that recently went to Belgium (or lived there I forget that detail).
They were already deaf and were going blind. They decided that they both didn't want to live like that and sought assisted suicide.
DH and I don't agree on that to begin with (I agree with it, he doesn't). He thought the guys were taking things too far.
I could definitely see it both ways but am personally glad that they at least had that option.
DH's argument is that they could still do things, but it seems like to them anyway, it wasn't how they wanted to live. I told him that he wouldn't be able to do some of his favorite things, but he still thought it was too drastic.
What do you think?
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dynalady
My soul is fed with needle and thread
PeaNut 25,620
December 2001
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CADoodlebug
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy
PeaNut 178,445
November 2004
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Loc: Northern California
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mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.
PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
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Layouts: 14
Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.
| Posted: 1/27/2013 9:24:31 PM
I didn't blame them. They were essentially going to lose their livelihoods and each other and be locked into an isolated world in which communication with one another would have been impossible and communication with others would have been challenging at best. |
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scrapulous
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 118,732
December 2003
Posts: 7,217
Layouts: 2
 | Posted: 1/27/2013 9:27:03 PM
From what I read they also didn't want to be a burden on their aging parents, and didn't want to be put in a home to be cared for by strangers after their parents die, with no way to communicate with each other or anyone else.
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melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 9:28:54 PM
I think it is their lives and they should be able to live them as they see fit.
And if they could no longer live them in a way that was fulfilling and acceptable to them, then I am glad they had this option.
I am also glad that there is a board in place to review each case to be sure people are making rational, informed choices. And I am glad that it appears that they had the support of their family in this decision.
I think life is about quality, not quantity. And if you reach a point where you feel you are living only for the quantity, with little to no chance of ever increasing the quality, then I think it is the decent thing to allow the individual to opt to stop that from continuing.
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redboots
BucketHead
PeaNut 399,301
November 2008
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 | Posted: 1/27/2013 9:29:55 PM
I think if that's what they want to do they should be allowed to. They are the only ones who can decide what quality of life they will accept. Why should anyone be forced to live a life they don't want?
I agree 100%. I believe that euthanasia often allows people a dignity that is denied to them if they are forced to follow the "natural" course of their diseases. In this case, it spared these men a life without sound and sight. They were of sound mind to make this choice, and it appears that their family supported their choice.
It is not my right to tell another adult what can be done with his or her body, nor is it my right to decide what level of suffering they should be required to endure. | |
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lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
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 | Posted: 1/27/2013 9:41:21 PM
I am going to go against everyone else here and say that I never believe suicide is the answer. How do they know that there won't some type of surgery in 3 years, 5 years, w 10 years that could restore hearing or sight or both. I don't know the whole story or what is going on with their eyes, but there are advances made in the medical world everyday. They are just in their forties. There are people living and doing alright that are both blind and deaf. I just think that it would be wrong and a shame for them to end their lives.
For their poor parents to lose two sons at their own hand, at the same time would have to be unbearable for them. Speaking from experience, when a child dies, no matter the age or the reason, you wonder if it is something that you did wrong when he was a child or when you were pregnant, or if there was something that you could changed. It took 8 months for them to determine that my son died because his heart just stopped. They couldn't find any other reason. He was healthy. I know that there was nothing that I could have done to change it, but you still wonder. For the two brothers to have physical problems that they felt were so bad that they wanted to die, would have to bring on some guilt for the parents, even if the issues had nothing whatsoever to do with anything that the parents did. I just think that they are places that could go ahead now and be working with them to teach them how to deal with their upcoming disability. There may even be a place now that could preform surgery to save their eyesight. I just don't think that suicide is the answer. |
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redboots
BucketHead
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November 2008
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 9:43:24 PM
How do they know that there won't some type of surgery in 3 years, 5 years, w 10 years that could restore hearing or sight or both. I don't know the whole story or what is going on with their eyes, but there are advances made in the medical world everyday. They are just in their forties. There are people living and doing alright that are both blind and deaf. I just think that it would be wrong and a shame for them to end their lives.
So they should live in pain that you cannot comprehend because you feel it's wrong?
If you don't believe in euthanasia, don't choose to be euthanized.
But it is not your right to decide that someone else should live in excruciating mental or physical pain because of YOUR beliefs. | |
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freecharlie
Is the pool open yet?
PeaNut 109,127
September 2003
Posts: 19,237
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 9:44:57 PM
I think if that's what they want to do they should be allowed to. They are the only ones who can decide what quality of life they will accept. Why should anyone be forced to live a life they don't want?
I agree with this.
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lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
Posts: 7,666
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Loc: Metro Atlanta
| Posted: 1/27/2013 10:09:28 PM
So they should live in pain that you cannot comprehend because you feel it's wrong?
Unless I missed it, there is nothing in the OP about them being in pain. Just not wanting to live with disabilities.
But it is not your right to decide that someone else should live in excruciating mental or physical pain because of YOUR beliefs.
Correct. I can assure you that what I decide and the opinion that I voice will have no bearing on their decision, what ever it is. However it is my right to decide how I feel about it, just like it is your right to decide how you feel about it. It is not your right to tell me what I can or can not decide or feel or voice.  |
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redboots
BucketHead
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November 2008
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 10:12:57 PM
Correct. I can assure you that what I decide and the opinion that I voice will have no bearing on their decision, what ever it is. However it is my right to decide how I feel about it, just like it is your right to decide how you feel about it. It is not your right to tell me what I can or can not decide or feel or voice.
I must have missed the part where I told you that you had no right to voice your opinion.
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lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
Posts: 7,666
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Loc: Metro Atlanta
| Posted: 1/27/2013 10:20:20 PM
I must have missed the part where I told you that you had no right to voice your opinion.
That part comes in where you jumped on here to tell me that my opinion was wrong. You saying that it is not my right to decide what they do makes little sense, considering that they most likely are not going to consult with me about it and most definitely will not give me the power to decide for them. I was simply voicing my opinion, which I do have the right to do. You are the one that chose to make a big ado about it. Why, I don't know.
ETA: The OP asked what we think about what the twins are doing, not what we think about what other Peas think about it. |
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ScrapWench*
Seems a pity to miss such a good pudding.
PeaNut 247,139
February 2006
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 10:27:21 PM
I believe if they are of sound mind they should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it is not physically hurting anyone else.
I can't imagine being 45 and losing another sense. I just can't imagine.
Maybe they are not in great physical pain, but in mental agony. That wold be just s bad IMO. |
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moveablefeast
do justice, love mercy
PeaNut 265,707
June 2006
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| Posted: 1/27/2013 10:29:45 PM
My biggest concern is the potential abuse of the elderly and disabled - it would be a tragedy to have vulnerable people pushed into assisted suicide so that they would not be a burden to their caregivers or to the medical system of their country.
That concern aside, as long as there are adequate controls for mental ability and mental illness, I am strongly in favor of assisted suicide. I think in a situation where quality of life has become such that a person would wish to die, then medically assisted suicide is a humane and kind option. It is so much less traumatic than any of the self-induced methods we've come up with over the generations.
The trauma of suicide is usually such that it leaves many things unsaid and many questions unanswered. For it to be planned and assisted deals with that reality. Sometimes we cannot face our own death on our own terms, and perhaps for some people in some circumstances it would be desirable to do so. Sometimes there is no fight left and no quality of life left to fight for, and the more desirable alternative is to take charge of the process.
I don't know that this is a scenario where I would say that myself. My husband will likely be deaf by the time he is 45, as he is partially deaf due to a congenital malformation of the ear - there are many, many things we can do to mitigate this. But I don't know where one ought to draw the line. If he were deaf and blind? Deaf, blind, and in a wheelchair? At what point has he lost so much faculty that he would suffer overwhelming emotional anguish? I don't know. I don't think this is a solution we would have to face, because I don't think our situation is as severe as that of the men in the OP. I am grateful for that and furthermore intend that it would not be a decision I would want to make for someone else.
And as such, if this is what the brothers feel is right for them, and if they have not been coerced in any way, I would support it 100%. | |
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 5:51:33 AM
In this specific situation I'm not sure if it's a great idea, but either way, I would hope they'd wait until their parents passed away.
However, from the OP I didn't get the idea that they had a debilitating disease, or chronic illness. It said they were deaf and going blind...not reason enough to commit suicide. My DD is deaf and there's nothing wrong with her quality of life, adding blindness would certainly make things more complicated, but look at Helen Keller...deaf, blind and mute, but she managed to impact the world.
I'm not in favor of assisted suicide for anyone who is not in late stage terminal illness, and incapable of doing it themselves. If you're depressed and want to kill yourself, that's your choice, but if you're capable of ending your own life, why do you need to be 'assisted' to do it? | |
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
Posts: 19,528
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Loc: California, NY & Orlando
| Posted: 1/28/2013 6:00:15 AM
So they should live in pain that you cannot comprehend because you feel it's wrong?
If you don't believe in euthanasia, don't choose to be euthanized.
But it is not your right to decide that someone else should live in excruciating mental or physical pain because of YOUR beliefs.
Having a bad day, Redboots?
She was just giving her opinion on the subject, not deciding the fate of the world. Lighten up. | |
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redboots
BucketHead
PeaNut 399,301
November 2008
Posts: 908
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 6:05:47 AM
Having a bad day, Redboots?
She was just giving her opinion on the subject, not deciding the fate of the world. Lighten up.
It's great that you've appointed yourself chief handslapper and arbiter of whom may discuss what at Two Peas. Glad to have helped you feel superior for a few minutes | |
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Nicole in TX
The Peas did what we do and went insane over it
PeaNut 16,696
June 2001
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 6:23:13 AM
Until we have walked a mile in their shoes I don't think we should judge
I can't imagine what they are going through mentally. |
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knit.pea
. cheeky cousin .
PeaNut 158,945
July 2004
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 6:37:45 AM
(They died in December.)
I think there is probably an entirely different view of
suicide itself in their country, beside it being legal there.
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WannaPea
No Peas for you ! Come back one year!
PeaNut 151,172
June 2004
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melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 14,452
Layouts: 86
| Posted: 1/28/2013 7:03:54 AM
but look at Helen Keller...deaf, blind and mute, but she managed to impact the world.
My DH said the same thing, but Helen had someone working with her non-stop from the age of 7 to help her to do those things.
That's part of what these twins do not want, to have to have someone providing constant care or assistance.
Helen wasn't living on her own and making a living when she lost her sight & hearing. So it wasn't as complicated as being a self-sufficient adult, kwim?
I'm sure they didn't go into this lightly. I am sure they looked to several doctors, sought out possible medical treatments, surgeries, etc..
Plus, I am even more sure that the board made sure that the twins had all of that information before they even considered okaying this.
As a parent, yes, it would be horrible to have to say goodbye to my children, but on the flip side, I cannot imagine the guilt I would feel if I made them feel that they should live in what they perceive as misery just so that I wouldn't have to let them go. |
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liasmommy2000
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 80,815
April 2003
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Layouts: 7
Loc: The mitten state
 | Posted: 1/28/2013 7:10:11 AM
I hadn't heard of this and only know what I read in the first few posts. However if that's what they want, then they should be able to do it. Neither I nor my parents, dh, sister want to live in severe pain/misery. We all agree that people should have that choice if they want. |
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IScrapCrap
PeaAddict
PeaNut 570,639
October 2012
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Loc: pea formerly known as GIPfunny
| Posted: 1/28/2013 7:13:50 AM
I think if that's what they want to do they should be allowed to. They are the only ones who can decide what quality of life they will accept. Why should anyone be forced to live a life they don't want?
I agree. For years. I saw my grandmother suffer. Cancer, numerous strokes, and wheelchair bound. She would repeatedly say if they can take down old dogs, why can't they take me? | |
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Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme
PeaNut 49,641
September 2002
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Loc: Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
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TREZmom
Lost and Found in Pea-land
PeaNut 138,098
March 2004
Posts: 5,808
Layouts: 2
Loc: NC but wishing I was somewhere else
| Posted: 1/28/2013 8:15:23 AM
I wish we had that option here. Everyone should have the right to die with dignity. But that being said, I feel sorry for the family. They seemed to have a good support system, so I'm surprised they made this decision. It must be really hard for the parents. | |
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
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Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/28/2013 8:20:24 AM
I'm a proponent of assisted suicide but, only in certain cases. I don't think that this is one of those cases.
I'm not a proponent, but I do understand why people think it's needed. and I'm not unsympathetic to those who want to go down that path. And I agree that this is not a case where it seems to fit the situation. It bothers me in ways I can't really explain here. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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batya
Making the WWW better, one post at a time.
PeaNut 59,094
December 2002
Posts: 31,806
Layouts: 24
Loc: up on my high horse
| Posted: 1/28/2013 8:24:42 AM
I can't imagine being in their shoes. What must life be like that you feel it's your best and only option?
Just b/c of the deafness and blindness it doesn't mean they weren't dealing with other problems like severe depression b/c of it, where other people would not either b/c of their chemistry or circumstances. I won' judge someone b/c of this. We don't know enough.
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OK. Newbie. This is how it works. If your post consists of 80% sanity, 10% stupidity and 10% all kinds of crazy, we immediately focus on the 20% b/c it discredits the 80%.
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
Posts: 19,528
Layouts: 0
Loc: California, NY & Orlando
| Posted: 1/28/2013 8:25:22 AM
It's great that you've appointed yourself chief handslapper and arbiter of whom may discuss what at Two Peas. Glad to have helped you feel superior for a few minutes
Awwww, I don't need you to help make me feel superior, I can do that all by myself
But you're mistaken, that wasn't a handslap, that was an observation, and a suggestion. If I'd slapped your hand, you would have felt the pain.
And I genuinely hope you're having a better day, you have been a little cranky lately....just another observation | |
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Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme
PeaNut 49,641
September 2002
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
Posts: 19,528
Layouts: 0
Loc: California, NY & Orlando
| Posted: 1/28/2013 8:38:56 AM
Just b/c of the deafness and blindness it doesn't mean they weren't dealing with other problems like severe depression b/c of it, where other people would not either b/c of their chemistry or circumstances. I won' judge someone b/c of this. We don't know enough.
That's true, but severe depression can be fixed with medication. I can't judge it either, because all I know about it is what I've read here. What I wonder is what their upbringing was like. If they were deaf, did they sign? Was it because they were going blind, and would not be able to see each other signing, that they made this decision? If they knew they were going blind, why didn't they learn Braille before they lost their sight?
Unless Belgium considers severe depression a reason to assist someone with suicide, there must be more to this story, but if there isn't, I'm uncomfortable with there not being more effort made to help them cope with their disabilities. Those are not disabilities to kill yourself over, IMHO. I think it vaguely offends me for all the folks who are deaf/blind/have chronic depression, or any manner of other difficult disabilities, and manage to find some purpose in life. | |
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Simply_Lovely
PeaFixture
PeaNut 463,295
April 2010
Posts: 3,282
Layouts: 3
Loc: New York City
 | Posted: 1/28/2013 8:42:41 AM
I saw a news story about them. They have already been euthanized.
They were very afraid of not being able to communicate. They were also afraid of what would happen to them once their parents passed away.
My personal view is that they were grown men who realistically assessed their situation, talked to their doctor about their concerns and came to this decision in a serious and reflective way.
They wanted to exit this world together in a peaceful and dignified manner and who is anyone to deny them that? While I find their story to be sad, it's also a touching commentary on their freedom. I think it's a very important freedom.
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3kidmama
AncestralPea
PeaNut 268,201
July 2006
Posts: 4,918
Layouts: 8
Loc: Northwoods
| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:00:02 AM
I am disabled, essentially bedridden and unable to be left alone safely due to heart issues. I require daily specialized heart treatments at the hospital and a personal care attendant to help me with some of the most basic activities of everyday life.
I have ZERO knowledge of true facts of the Belgium case. However, if my dh or children were to EVER give me an inkling that I were a burden...
I'm having a hard time putting my intense emotions into thoughts on this, so let me just say, unless you are really disabled, you have NO IDEA how vulnerable you are to the mere suggestion that you could do the "loving thing" for those you love so very much.
The reality is that life is truly precious, and that we will never know if someone just needed treatment for depression, or their family just needed a little break from caring for someone, or some simple job retraining so they could feel useful, or the disabled person just needed a friend to tell them they were loved and valued......
When your culture indirectly tells you that rather than be a burden to people we offer you this "easy option" which would be so much more cost effective...the temptation would be great.
Suicide - especially "assisted" should never be an option. Unless you live in the shoes of a disabled person who must struggle for even basic things, you just don't realize what a few thoughtless/careless words on a bad day might lead to.
However, my life (even in this condition) is precious! I DO have value. I DO bring love, laughter and joy to my family and friends. I DO pray for Peas that I know are suffering or going through hard times.
I know first hand that once a society determines that God is not the one Who "numbers our days" we go down a very slippery, dangerous slope! | |
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lovetodigi
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 257,022
April 2006
Posts: 7,666
Layouts: 5
Loc: Metro Atlanta
| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:09:29 AM
However, my life (even in this condition) is precious! I DO have value. I DO bring love, laughter and joy to my family and friends.
Bravo!!!! You are absolutely right 3kidmama and don't you ever doubt it. Stay strong. (((HUG))) |
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Sarah*H
Bring me that horizon!
PeaNut 239,162
December 2005
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Loc: The final frontier
| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:20:35 AM
However, my life (even in this condition) is precious! I DO have value. I DO bring love, laughter and joy to my family and friends. I DO pray for Peas that I know are suffering or going through hard times.
Your post brought tears of joy to my eyes.  |
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gryroagain
PeaAddict
PeaNut 463,630
April 2010
Posts: 1,360
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:27:36 AM
To me, it seems society has utterly failed these men if it will help them die, but not find a reason to live. I can see chronic pain, or a debilitating, fatal disease being a reason for assisted suicide or lethal doses of painkillers. I can't see fear of the unknown, and fear of being a burden, as a valid reason. I think it's a shame they thought this was their only recourse. | |
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jodster70
To the right, To the right
PeaNut 51,257
October 2002
Posts: 5,551
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Loc: Usually NSBR, an un"pea"dictable place :)
| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:29:14 AM
First --- 3kidmama- what a post! I couldn't agree more! 
PS...WannaPea, even though I disagree with you, your post was very eloquent as well. |
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raindancer
Capt. Sparrow's Pirate Wench
PeaNut 217,886
August 2005
Posts: 15,451
Layouts: 44
| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:33:26 AM
IMO, assisted suicide should be reserved for cases of chronic pain or terminal illness. I don't see where it has been said they are in chronic pain.
The issue I think, is that we have a grave misunderstanding of mental pain and the anguish that it can cause. I think that deciding that because someone's arm isn't hurting or their liver isn't hurting that they don't qualify in some way as being in "enough" pain is fair or right.
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"You can make excuses or you can make progress but you can't make both."
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Maryland
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 87,597
May 2003
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 9:58:47 AM
I am pro-life, but I think everyone is entitled to make their own decisions when it affects them. I don't have a right to decide what someone else does.
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melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 14,452
Layouts: 86
| Posted: 1/28/2013 10:10:18 AM
However, my life (even in this condition) is precious! I DO have value. I DO bring love, laughter and joy to my family and friends. I DO pray for Peas that I know are suffering or going through hard times.
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ButterflyMomma
PeaNut
PeaNut 475,479
July 2010
Posts: 297
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
 | Posted: 1/28/2013 11:01:20 AM
(((hugs))) 3kidmama - your post was well worded and very touching!
My mom has a degenerative condition that means that I will be her primary caregiver long before her age would normally demand one. Not for one second does that diminish my love for her, negate her friendship or make me "need" my mom any less. She is vitally important to me and my family and we will cherish her as long as we are blessed to have her in our lives.
I am strongly pro-life. From a path of life where I am living out my life view. | |
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Nightowl scrapper
Intl Assoc of Epic Length Posters - USA Chapter
PeaNut 103,889
August 2003
Posts: 24,760
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Loc: Colorado
| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:08:03 AM
3kidmama, thank you for eloquently articulating some of what I was trying to define in my own mind. This situation bothers me. A lot. And I fear there is much we don't know, and will never know, about what created this plan in their minds.
I don't buy "whatever someone wants to do with their own life is fine with me." The logical extension of that is that we are fine with all suicides, and suicide attempts of any sort should not be impeded. Wouldn't that be 'judging' that some of you are so adamantly against?
As a society we have an obligation to care for those who feel they are a burden because of disabilities. We don't do a good job with that. When we start seeing assisted suicide requests that are not based on unrelieved pain and terminal illness, we are sliding down a slippery slope.
I have other reasons for discomfort with this, but I am in full agreement with 3kidmama that there's something to be concerned about here. |
"Until you put a thought into words, clearly and precisely, it is not a thought at all. It is a kind of fog rolling around inside the skull."
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Shih Tzu Mommy
Million dollar camera, 10 dollar lock!
PeaNut 224,352
September 2005
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:12:52 AM
I think they were lucky to live in Belgium where they
were allowed to do this. Their brother said they did
everything together for 45 years and they communicated
visually. They were happy with their decision so I
don't think it's anyone else's place to judge them.
JMHO.
Agree, 100% |
Dog people are a special breed! | |
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busypea
boring + nerdy
PeaNut 52,817
October 2002
Posts: 25,148
Layouts: 145
Loc: Oregon
| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:17:42 AM
I don't have a problem with it.
As long as someone has a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation and is deemed to be competent to make that decision, I think it is their decision to make. | |
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CADoodlebug
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy
PeaNut 178,445
November 2004
Posts: 17,069
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Loc: Northern California
| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:20:15 AM
My mother died from Alzheimer's Disease. Since she
lived in the same city as my sister, she was pretty
much responsible for her well being. When she passed
away, my sister said that if that ever happened to
her that she would not want to be kept alive. My
sister lived the last part of her life in a fetal
position unresponsive to those who loved her.
Her fear of getting Alzheimer's and dying like my
mother came true.
I know this issue is a slippery slope. But from my
personal experience of seeing my beloved sister in
that bed broke my heart. I wish we could have granted
her that last wish. |
Joy
"I just wish my mouth had a backspace key!"
  
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
Posts: 19,528
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Loc: California, NY & Orlando
| Posted: 1/28/2013 1:06:05 PM
The issue I think, is that we have a grave misunderstanding of mental pain and the anguish that it can cause.
But there are excellent medications for treating the depression and anxiety that leads to severe mental anguish and pain. There are excellent psychiatrists to treat this problem.
and a personal care attendant to help me with some of the most basic activities of everyday life.
THANK YOU, 3kidmama. Your story is exactly what makes me uncomfortable about this whole situation. I have two profoundly autistic children, one of whom is also deaf. We have worked incredibly hard to give these kids the best quality of life we can. We have done our best to help them learn the fundamentals of living, but they will never live independent lives. They will always need someone to watch over them. They will never go to college, never get married, we will never have grandchildren, they will never hold jobs in the competitive marketplace.....but should they die because their quality of life doesn't equal that of someone else? Should they die because it's going to be expensive to provide for their future? Not a conversation I want to have with anyone, and I'm pretty stunned the twins' family was as willing to let them go so easily. If 'assisted suicide' is legal and acceptable for anyone who wants it I fear for what the attitudes of society may become, towards 'quality of life' issues, in a few more years.
My sister lived the last part of her life in a fetal
position unresponsive to those who loved her. Her fear of getting Alzheimer's and dying like my
mother came true.
I am so very sorry for your loss, and the heartbreaking way in which it happened. It is in this kind of situation that I believe assisted suicide does have function, for those who have articulated their wishes beforehand.
I'm actually not opposed to anybody making the personal decision that their life is not worth living, and that suicide is an option. What I don't understand, in the case of the twins, is if they were competent enough to make that decision, and there was nothing physically stopping them, then why didn't they just take a bunch of pills and leave this world together? Getting someone else to kill you, when you're capable of doing it yourself, is not assisted suicide, it's legally sanctioned homicide. | |
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Mallie
BucketHead
PeaNut 574,604
December 2012
Posts: 686
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 1:50:40 PM
I believe that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions in such a matter.
I am also wondering if there were readily available resources that might have helped them to LIVE well under those circumstances or if the men felt that their medical conditions meant they would never live well no matter what resources were available. | |
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raindancer
Capt. Sparrow's Pirate Wench
PeaNut 217,886
August 2005
Posts: 15,451
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| Posted: 1/28/2013 1:54:09 PM
I am so very sorry for your loss, and the heartbreaking way in which it happened. It is in this kind of situation that I believe assisted suicide does have function, for those who have articular their wishes beforehand.
And what if they went into it feeling that it was not for them, or wrong, or whatever, but then in the throes of the disease came to a different conclusion?
And IMO there is a difference between your children, who are growing up with this, and their need for dependence on others, they will never know different. That is not the same for someone much older who previously had been able to do that. For some people, as expressed here, it is a blessing to be alive, whatever that may be, for another that may not be how they feel.
We can't say how we would feel or what we would want unless in the position to have to know our fate.
In addition, I am often saddened at how in this country we are inhumane for keeping an animal alive, putting them through treatments, etc that will likely not prolong their life for long. We insist that people put their pets down, so that they don't suffer. And yet we stand idly by or even worse, cast judgement on those humans around us who would make that same choice for a loved one. It is apparently humane to keep a person alive through medical intervention, regardless of their wishes, rather than let them go with dignity through choice. |
~Heidi~
"You can make excuses or you can make progress but you can't make both."
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I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!
PeaNut 97,456
July 2003
Posts: 19,528
Layouts: 0
Loc: California, NY & Orlando
| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:43:09 PM
And what if they went into it feeling that it was not for them, or wrong, or whatever, but then in the throes of the disease came to a different conclusion?
And IMO there is a difference between your children, who are growing up with this, and their need for dependence on others, they will never know different. That is not the same for someone much older who previously had been able to do that. For some people, as expressed here, it is a blessing to be alive, whatever that may be, for another that may not be how they feel.
We can't say how we would feel or what we would want unless in the position to have to know our fate.
Now Raindancer...did you not get the memo regarding quotes that have typos, spelling errors, or grammatical errors? You first have to correct the error, THEN you can quote it. Otherwise I'm forced to look at my egregious error for time immemorial 
But, back to the topic...I'm pretty sure I know how I feel about articulating (see, that's how it should be spelled!) my thoughts on assisted suicide, and end of life decisions. I do not want to be kept alive on life support. If I'm old and dying naturally, I do not want any heroic measures taken, just let me go. And if I'm incapable of recognizing my children, or otherwise present as incompetent, and there is no hope of a full recovery to my natural competent self, then please, help me cross over.
As far as my kids go, what I fear, in this disposable world, is someone else deciding they are not useful to society. It's happened before, and when I hear folks loudly griping about those who 'suck on the Government' for disability etc (my kids don't, but many disabled people do rely on SSDI) then I wonder how far those folks will take that agenda. When I hear that assisted suicide is available to anyone whose 'quality of life' is no longer appealing to them, then I fear when I'm not here to protect them, who might be making that decision for them. Hitler's desire to rid the world of imperfect humans is not that far in the past that we should forget it, or no longer fear the possibility. Man's inhumanity to man is well documented. | |
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BuckeyeSandy
Old Dogs are Best!
PeaNut 92,987
June 2003
Posts: 22,352
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Loc: With my dogs
| Posted: 1/28/2013 11:51:12 PM
They committed suicide (self inflected death). It was NOT euthanasia.
I really don't believe that suicide is the answer. It is a permanent answer to what is most times a temporary problem.
I have know of people in severe pain, from various causes (mostly cancer) that have wished, or decided to hasten things along. I have had family members that we wished we could do more for them.
But that last bit? Whom is qualified to determine WHEN life is not worth living? And what slippery slope are we starting upon?
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Sandy
Every MOM is a working mom!
"Retired" after 22 years of an Air Force Career
REMEMBER this Veterans Day
To quote Wayne Gretzky, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."
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