Well, this is excellent news re: BSA and gay Scouts
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 1/28/2013 by busypea in NSBR Board
1 2 >
 

busypea
boring + nerdy

PeaNut 52,817
October 2002
Posts: 27,737
Layouts: 145
Loc: Oregon

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:48:02 PM

The Boy Scouts of America is considering an end to its longstanding policy of banning gay scouts and scout leaders, the organization said on Monday.

The new policy would eliminate the ban on gays from its national rules, allowing local chapters to decide for themselves.

"The chartered organizations that oversee and deliver scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with their organization's mission, principles or religious beliefs," Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, told NBC News.

The move would allow parents to then "choose a local unit which best meets the needs of their families," Smith added. The new policy could be announced as early as next week.

It would also be a public reversal of policy for an organization that recently rejected calls for change. In 2012, following an internal study on the issue, the Boy Scouts of America's executive board issued a statement affirming the ban, saying it was "the best policy for the organization." The decision followed the forced resignations of gay scout leaders and the denial of an Eagle Award to Ryan Andresen, a California high school senior who had recently come out to his friends and family.

According to NBC, some board members urged the youth organization to reconsider its ban as some sponsoring organizations--including the United Way--have withdrawn their financial support of the group.
Change.org petitions opposing the ban have collected more than 1.2 million signatures. And according to Scouts for Equality, at least 350 Eagle Scouts returned their pins in protest.


Link
Link to longer article

peas&carrots
BucketHead

PeaNut 62,524
January 2003
Posts: 574
Layouts: 17
Loc: North Texas

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:52:10 PM
I cannot tell you how THRILLED I am at this development.

And I have no more words that are adequate.

Carrie

Sarah*H
Bring me that horizon!

PeaNut 239,162
December 2005
Posts: 29,020
Layouts: 417
Loc: The final frontier

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:53:15 PM
Like I just posted on FB, I can't even find the right words to express how happy I am about this, I'm almost trembling. Equal parts disbelieving and giddy and hopeful and cautious.

And a little bit worried. This is not an issue that has ever confronted my son's troop, it has never been discussed. What if they go the wrong way? We're chartered out of a Methodist Church which is inclusive but we live in a very, very conservative part of the country so I just don't know.

ETA: Right before I took a break and came onto the internet and read this story, I was putting photos in an album - photos of our last Pinewood Derby and ds' Arrow of Light ceremony. It would be so wonderful not to have such mixed feelings about something that is such a source of pride and happiness to my kid.

brandy_m
H.P(ea) Show-off

PeaNut 62,296
January 2003
Posts: 12,123
Layouts: 391
Loc: PA-Jackass of the Northeast

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:53:34 PM
Absolutely WONDERFUL news!!!

Hoping it goes through!!

Mallie
PeaFixture

PeaNut 574,604
December 2012
Posts: 3,464
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:54:06 PM



some board members urged the youth organization to reconsider its ban as some sponsoring organizations--including the United Way--have withdrawn their financial support of the group.
So are they reconsidering due to a change of heart or due to change of revenue?

raindancer
Capt. Sparrow's Pirate Wench

PeaNut 217,886
August 2005
Posts: 16,522
Layouts: 44

Posted: 1/28/2013 1:55:59 PM
It's always about the money.

And it still makes me sad, because in some parts of this country this is only going to make things harder for some scouts I suspect.

I just wish that they would take a real stand and say we accept all, and be done with it. Local chapters my ass.

TinaFB
the lunatics have taken over the asylum

PeaNut 25,135
November 2001
Posts: 25,973
Layouts: 349
Loc: Maryland

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:03:36 PM

some board members urged the youth organization to reconsider its ban as some sponsoring organizations--including the United Way--have withdrawn their financial support of the group.

So are they reconsidering due to a change of heart or due to change of revenue?

Probably a bit of both. However, if they dropped the ban and disallowed any discrimination, they would lose the support of many churches who charter troops/packs/crews. Catholic and LDS churches are big supporters of BSA programs, but not big supporters of gay or atheist scouters. The way that they're saying this may work is that it will no longer be national BSA policy to discriminate against gay and atheist scouters, but that chartering organizations can continue having their own membership requirements.

So, basically, if a troop chartered by an LDS church wants to continue allowing only LDS members and not allow any gays, they can continue to do so. The difference will be that it will now now longer be national policy requiring every civic, neighborhood, or religions organization that charters BSA groups to uphold the discriminatory policies. So BSA wins all around. They keep the support of civic organizations and churches, and drop the discriminatory policy that makes so many people hate the organization.

If it is officially dropped, it will be about damn time.

Peabay
Happy now?

PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
Posts: 46,310
Layouts: 13
Loc: Connecticut

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:05:22 PM
That's wonderful. I will be happy to return to financially supporting their activities here in my town once this happens.

Sarah*H
Bring me that horizon!

PeaNut 239,162
December 2005
Posts: 29,020
Layouts: 417
Loc: The final frontier

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:07:05 PM

some board members urged the youth organization to reconsider its ban as some sponsoring organizations--including the United Way--have withdrawn their financial support of the group.
So are they reconsidering due to a change of heart or due to change of revenue?


I would argue that the only reason it already hasn't been changed is because of revenue so if it's starting to hurt the other way, I guess it's time to equalize things.

rosiekat
AncestralPea

PeaNut 216,153
July 2005
Posts: 4,294
Layouts: 27
Loc: Texas

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:07:50 PM

I just wish that they would take a real stand and say we accept all, and be done with it. Local chapters my ass.


I can't see that happening any time in the foreseeable future. For all the outcry against the ban, I'd bet there's still a ton of vehement support from a lot of groups. If you change and make the the organization fully support any sexuality, you'll tick off a lot of huge supporters, too. Therefore, they can ride down the middle and make no one happy, lol.

I've been struggling with this as DS will be eligible to join in a couple of years and is really interested in it. But as I was saying to DH just this past weekend, I'm really not wanting to put him in an organization that is so adamant about something like this. Truthfully, I wouldn't really care if they had more of a "just don't talk about any sex kinda stuff" policy, more of a "don't ask, don't tell," since I don't think it has a role in scouting anyway.

I don't care who you love if you treat all people, including my kid, with respect and you know how to camp, KWIM?

stittsygirl
I AM SHER LOCKED

PeaNut 9,640
January 2001
Posts: 8,914
Layouts: 131
Loc: Deep in the heart of...

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:11:13 PM

I just wish that they would take a real stand and say we accept all, and be done with it. Local chapters my ass.


I know, but it's a step forward anyway. They probably WOULD lose the support of the LDS church if they did that, and they are the BSA's largest private sponsor.

Now if they'd just let us pesky, out and proud atheists participate .




busypea
boring + nerdy

PeaNut 52,817
October 2002
Posts: 27,737
Layouts: 145
Loc: Oregon

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:13:54 PM

I just wish that they would take a real stand and say we accept all, and be done with it. Local chapters my ass.

In a perfect world, yes.

But this is a huge step, and one I am very happy about.

In one way, it's almost better. This way, you know what chapters to steer clear of. The bigots who would vote to keep a chapter closed to gays would still be there, but you wouldn't know it.

TinaFB
the lunatics have taken over the asylum

PeaNut 25,135
November 2001
Posts: 25,973
Layouts: 349
Loc: Maryland

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:37:30 PM

Now if they'd just let us pesky, out and proud atheists participate

The e-mail I got from Scouts for Equality said that the ban on atheists will be lifted as well, but I can't find anything to verify that yet. I hope that SFE is right!

MerryMom937
PeaFixture

PeaNut 472,567
June 2010
Posts: 3,701
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:38:06 PM
A lot of people involved with Scouting have been lobbying the National BSA organization from within for BSA to reconsider its ban for many years.

In our area, enrollment in Scouting has been on a consistent upswing for 15 to 20 years.

brandy_m
H.P(ea) Show-off

PeaNut 62,296
January 2003
Posts: 12,123
Layouts: 391
Loc: PA-Jackass of the Northeast

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:41:09 PM
To email the BSA your support go here

CMHS
PeaAddict

PeaNut 407,137
January 2009
Posts: 1,290
Layouts: 0
Loc: New Jersey

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:42:30 PM
This conservative, Catholic, mom-of-a-scout-with-a-gay-co-leader certainly hopes they go through with the change.

stittsygirl
I AM SHER LOCKED

PeaNut 9,640
January 2001
Posts: 8,914
Layouts: 131
Loc: Deep in the heart of...

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:43:06 PM

Now if they'd just let us pesky, out and proud atheists participate

The e-mail I got from Scouts for Equality said that the ban on atheists will be lifted as well, but I can't find anything to verify that yet. I hope that SFE is right!





I hope so too!




lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 15,978
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 1/28/2013 2:46:06 PM
My Eagle Scout nephew will be especially pleased to hear the news.


So are they reconsidering due to a change of heart or due to change of revenue?

I don't care which it is. I care that they're doing it.

The change of heart will follow the change of revenue, anyway.

ETA I posted the ABC news link on my Facebook. I NEVER post anything on my Facebook.

writermom1
Thrift Whisperer

PeaNut 114,407
November 2003
Posts: 22,729
Layouts: 66
Loc: At the intersection of Hooterville and Stars Hollow

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:27:50 PM
In practical application I think some troops have already done this.

Good for the BSA National for catching up.
Uploaded with iPhone client

BrinaG
PeaFixture

PeaNut 205,553
May 2005
Posts: 3,913
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:30:46 PM
I know our local leadership has been in favor of this rule change for a long time. I am not thrilled that it will not be a blanket policy, but at least now kids and families will have choices - and a boys hard work towards his Eagle will not be taken from him for an arbitrary reason.

kelleykreates
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 37,012
April 2002
Posts: 5,487
Layouts: 57
Loc: Lehigh Valley, PA

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:35:30 PM
If this change goes through, and I can find a local chapter willing to accept homosexual leaders/scouts, then I guess I can finally allow my ds to join the BSA. He has been asking me and it's been hard to explain to a 7 year old why he can't. This will make me happy.

*~*amanda*~*
...

PeaNut 393,905
October 2008
Posts: 7,415
Layouts: 0
Loc: Illinois

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:37:25 PM
I think that's good news, too.

I do have a question for the peas that have said in the past they do not care for the Boy Scouts because of this policy.

If they do actually rescind the policy will you then support the Boy Scouts or is this too little too late?

Please know that I do not mean that question to be argumentative in any way. I'm genuinely curious.

JenKate77
Reading when I should be cleaning!

PeaNut 89,592
June 2003
Posts: 6,489
Layouts: 5
Loc: Just come out so we can talk. Or sing about it.

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:50:10 PM
Yay!

And I agree that the best way to do it is to leave it up to the individual troops. (But I'm a Mormon who wouldn't mind having a gay leader or a gay boy in my son's troop, so maybe I'm an anomaly.)

VexedAngel
Cold Pea on a Cracked Plate

PeaNut 156,343
July 2004
Posts: 5,210
Layouts: 46

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:57:53 PM
Uploaded with iPhone client

Maryland
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 87,597
May 2003
Posts: 10,666
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/28/2013 3:59:09 PM
Great news! I never understood why they barred them from scouts. Made no sense at all. That and they news last week about allowing women in combat give me much happiness that our country giving people many more equal opportunities. Yay!

TheBiscuitScraps
Bubbie is my most prized title.

PeaNut 99,833
August 2003
Posts: 5,226
Layouts: 2
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:08:28 PM
I'm so happy with this ruling...I do hope it goes through.

Now, if I could just be able to back to Chic-fil-a, I would be a happy camper.

My son was a BS, but it was not until after he was out that the isses came up about not allowing gay scout leaders on board. We all have felt so sad that our grandson would not be able to join (as both his parents, all aunts and uncles and both grandparents would not want him to join any organization that discriminated against gays or religious/non-religious beliefs). I want him to have that experience, now I have a smile on my face as I sit here looking at him sound asleep for his nap.

lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 168,696
September 2004
Posts: 8,325
Layouts: 0
Loc: Northern California

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:25:03 PM
We probably never will really know WHY they had the ban, but I think the prevailing opinion is that they are ( were) afraid.
They were most likely prone to believe the MYTH that gay people are sexual abusers.

I'm waiting to see what happens .

My synagogue recently issued a strong statement against the scouts and strongly believes in equality for everyone .--

I'm sad to hear about the Mormon church and how much they contribute ( because of beliefs 100% opposite from mine )

My brother was a scout, and he'll be happy if this goes through.

leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.

PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 22,093
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:28:27 PM
Fingers, toes, arms, legs.... everything crossed that this change happens.

It's a great organization and it's time for them to catch up with our society.


leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.

PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 22,093
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:31:45 PM
I just told my dd, and her first thought was that Boy Scouts is something that a lot of gay boys need.

She is so right.



If it starts on a local level, it'll domino quickly throughout the organization.

*maureen*
Bad Wolf

PeaNut 191,892
February 2005
Posts: 6,012
Layouts: 0
Loc: Wheaton

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:32:47 PM

I do have a question for the peas that have said in the past they do not care for the Boy Scouts because of this policy.

If they do actually rescind the policy will you then support the Boy Scouts or is this too little too late?



Until the Boy Scouts of America stands up and says we will not allow for discrimination in any of our troops I will not support them. I think it's a bunch of double speak to say the national organization will allow gays but the individual troops are still allowed to make their own choice.

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 15,978
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:33:37 PM

If they do actually rescind the policy will you then support the Boy Scouts or is this too little too late?

Please know that I do not mean that question to be argumentative in any way. I'm genuinely curious.

My answer will be unhelpful because I never boycotted them.

My nephew has been in Boy Scouts for the last 10 years (against his mother's better judgment) and just made Eagle Scout last year.

So I've been supportive. But I complain a lot. Now I will quit complaining.

leftturnonly
Will trade mosquitoes for cookies.

PeaNut 416,788
March 2009
Posts: 22,093
Layouts: 0
Loc: Living in Kim's Perfect World, again.

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:37:42 PM

We probably never will really know WHY they had the ban, but I think the prevailing opinion is that they are ( were) afraid.


The boys and men are to be morally straight.

Until so many people came forward publicly saying that they were gay, no one knew how many people this affected.

Homosexuality was considered an aberration, not a normally occurring segment of a population.

An aberration is against God, and therefore not morally straight.

The problem here becomes more obvious as time goes on. Leaders are allowed to be divorced, they just can't be in love with another man.


molove
Gabby Pea

PeaNut 82,634
April 2003
Posts: 17,067
Layouts: 2
Loc: Seattle, WA

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:50:34 PM
I'm glad they are finally getting on board. It's about time. Sheesh.
Uploaded with iPhone client

knit.pea
. cheeky cousin .

PeaNut 158,945
July 2004
Posts: 7,355
Layouts: 112

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:50:57 PM
I hope it does happen.

I hope this reversal has a lot to do with the number of
proud Scouts who returned their Eagle designations
to the organization in protest. Not to be melodramatic,
but that was a huge show of support for ALL to be included ...
by those who worked years and years to become Eagle Scouts
and who value inclusion.

I, personally, will not support the organization until
I see actual concrete changes.

lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 168,696
September 2004
Posts: 8,325
Layouts: 0
Loc: Northern California

Posted: 1/28/2013 4:51:18 PM
Maureen has a great point.
No one is celebrating now for sure.

*Sara*
insert clever Pea Title here

PeaNut 36,466
April 2002
Posts: 7,483
Layouts: 80
Loc: upstate NY

Posted: 1/28/2013 8:23:35 PM
Certainly good news, but I'm sure atheists are also waiting to be welcomed.

Ms. Liz
Practically Perfect in Every Way

PeaNut 199,404
April 2005
Posts: 7,275
Layouts: 2
Loc: deep in the hundred acre woods

Posted: 1/28/2013 8:30:41 PM

I do have a question for the peas that have said in the past they do not care for the Boy Scouts because of this policy. If they do actually rescind the policy will you then support the Boy Scouts or is this too little too late?


If they still allow individual troops to discriminate, they haven't done enough.


Long ago Barney
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 141,410
April 2004
Posts: 8,430
Layouts: 0
Loc: Arizona

Posted: 1/28/2013 8:39:18 PM
If they allow the individual troops their individual choice it could be a win/win. If they force the issue I would pull my sons out. While everyone has their rights. Those who believe it is morally wrong have their right as well. The individual troop choice is the only way to go IMO. Those forcing what they claim is discrimination is no more than the other side banning them.
Uploaded with iPhone client

*maureen*
Bad Wolf

PeaNut 191,892
February 2005
Posts: 6,012
Layouts: 0
Loc: Wheaton

Posted: 1/28/2013 8:43:17 PM

If they allow the individual troops their individual choice it could be a win/win. If they force the issue I would pull my sons out. While everyone has their rights. Those who believe it is morally wrong have their right as well. The individual troop choice is the only way to go IMO. Those forcing what they claim is discrimination is no more than the other side banning them.


And there is all the proof I need that this decision would mean absolutely nothing. Either the organization believes in discrimination or it doesn't.

TXDancermom
AncestralPea

PeaNut 146,748
May 2004
Posts: 4,244
Layouts: 1

Posted: 1/28/2013 8:43:36 PM
I think it is good news.

My ds was a boy scout, and the uncle of one of his troop members was a leader, and he was gay. He didn't make an issue of it, but he didn't deny it either. His brother was also a leader (dad of the scout) It never became an issue - the troop, even before he was a leader, had a strict 2 adults with the scouts at all time, the only exception was if it was a parent with their son.

He was one of the best leaders that they had. He earned the boys respect, and in turn their parent's respect.

Paigewh
BucketHead

PeaNut 157,311
July 2004
Posts: 721
Layouts: 6

Posted: 1/28/2013 11:33:55 PM
I think it's great news, but here's a Facebook thread that has disgusted me. Is it just because I live in Utah or are people this bigoted elsewhere ...

KSL Facebook

dreamsbedreams
PeaAddict

PeaNut 229,609
October 2005
Posts: 1,582
Layouts: 12
Loc: East Coast

Posted: 1/29/2013 12:29:10 AM
I'm hoping this goes through as well. Last year, my son had the most amazing, enthusiastic cubmaster - and any mom with a child in scouts knows how difficult those kind of leaders can be to find. He was a great example to the boys, even more so because he himself was an Eagle Scout. At the end of last year's school year, he resigned, stating he couldn't be a part of an organization that banned gays any longer. While everyone supported his decision, we were all very saddened by this news. Hopefully, if this does go through, the boys will get back the leader they so dearly miss... my son still asks me if he's ever coming back and it makes me so sad
Uploaded with iPhone client

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 15,978
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 1/29/2013 1:44:48 AM

If they allow the individual troops their individual choice it could be a win/win. If they force the issue I would pull my sons out. While everyone has their rights. Those who believe it is morally wrong have their right as well. The individual troop choice is the only way to go IMO. Those forcing what they claim is discrimination is no more than the other side banning them.

I knew there were people like you around, but I didn't know I "knew" any of them. You must be so proud of yourself ... you would pull your boys from scouting rather than allow them to be part of an organization that treats everyone equally? That there is really something to brag about.

IScrapCrap
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 570,639
October 2012
Posts: 2,615
Layouts: 0
Loc: pea formerly known as GIPfunny

Posted: 1/29/2013 2:00:54 AM
I don't see how this is excellent news. Local troops will be able to make their own decision. A HUGE majority of the scouts are LDS. Then there are Catholic and Evangelical scouts.

If you live in an urban area with a lot of diversity it may work out for a few kids.

lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 15,978
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 1/29/2013 2:09:58 AM
It's excellent news because it's a breakthrough. A step in the right direction. It makes it possible (easier) for BSA to say, a few years down the line, that all troops must be inclusive.

I think it's a huge step, given their current stance.

Bridget in MD
PeaAddict

PeaNut 8,619
December 2000
Posts: 1,988
Layouts: 14
Loc: St. Mary's Co., Maryland

Posted: 1/29/2013 8:55:41 AM
I am really hopeful!!!

BrinaG
PeaFixture

PeaNut 205,553
May 2005
Posts: 3,913
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/29/2013 9:14:44 AM

I think it's great news, but here's a Facebook thread that has disgusted me. Is it just because I live in Utah or are people this bigoted elsewhere ...

KSL Facebook


The comments on that thread sickened and saddened me.

My sons are scouts - currently Star, working on their Life Scout level. I am thrilled about this decision, as is our local leadership and every family associated with our troop with whom I have spoken.

TeamSteve
Don't shop...Adopt.

PeaNut 263,696
June 2006
Posts: 5,358
Layouts: 0
Loc: Florida, for now.

Posted: 1/29/2013 9:17:12 AM
GREAT news!

scrappower
Allons-y Alonso

PeaNut 174,150
October 2004
Posts: 15,347
Layouts: 0

Posted: 1/29/2013 9:27:25 AM

Until the Boy Scouts of America stands up and says we will not allow for discrimination in any of our troops I will not support them. I think it's a bunch of double speak to say the national organization will allow gays but the individual troops are still allowed to make their own choice.


Exactly. I will not support them until the organization as a whole stops all discrimination. This is not enough yet. It is a good step, but honestly feels like a cop out to me.

wholarmor
I'm NOT a sack sniffer!

PeaNut 29,699
February 2002
Posts: 24,474
Layouts: 92
Loc: SE Washington

Posted: 1/29/2013 11:25:04 AM
The funny thing in all those comments about the LDS pulling out of Boy Scouts- it won't happen. Mitt Romney already said that he thinks that all boys should be in Boy Scouts- regardless of sexual orientation. Those people on the KSL website don't know what they are talking about.

I was saddened to read a lot of the comments on the Boy Scouts of America Facebook page. Also saddened because I used to think like some of them.
1 2 >
Post Reply . Post New TopicShow/Hide Icons . Show/Hide Signatures
Hide
{{ title }}
{{ icon }}
{{ body }}
{{ footer }}