Oh PLEASE tell me you've done this before. Replied instead of Forwarded. UGH.

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Posted 1/28/2013 by Really Red in NSBR Board
 

Really Red
Pea-ceful and Hap-pea

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Posted: 1/28/2013 11:08:38 PM
I'm a Girl Scout Leader. We have a small troop and they are older girls. We have 3 cookie booths we have to do - 2 hrs each. We ask each girl to do 2 hours and each parent 2 hours. That's it.

So one mom wrote me "So sorry! Wish we could! Got plans and friends in for the weekend!" I forwarded it (OR SO I THOUGHT!) to my co-leader and said basically that this girl has not helped out in any way (selling door-to-door or cookie booths) for several years and did we have any options?

Aargh. Of course I REPLIED and didn't forward. I am a dummy. But a very tired dummy. It isn't a horrible thing on lists of things, but I do hate to make people feel bad. But in the 10 years we've been a troop, she has done ZERO. Not one single thing. Not hosted a meeting, not helped out in any way shape or form. We have 8 girls. I was frustrated, particularly because she is pretty condescending. She has made it clear that she is too busy to help. But I, who work 40 hours/week and have 3 kids and am a single parent with no help, clearly have more time.

If she writes me back (and yes, she will!), can I write this: "I really do apologize for sending you that note, but not for the sentiment. Co-Leader and I are TIRED and we do not want to give up our evenings/weekends any more than you and your daughter do. Co-Leader and I already organize the troop, do nuts/cookies, audits and work with the girls. This sale is for six total hours each year. All we asked of you both is two."

Her attitude colors my anger, I fully admit. I don't want to sound all righteous, but for heaven's sakes. We asked her several times for help and she always says no.

I still feel awful.

pretzels
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/28/2013 11:17:09 PM
Actually, today I forwarded a file from a co-worker to a designer we work with regularly...and I didn't delete the bottom part of the e-mail where my co-worker said his work was sloppy and unprofessional.

I apologized profusely and he seemed to be cool with everything, but I was mortified.
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geauxDeb
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 1/28/2013 11:30:09 PM
Mine was also scout-related. I got an email detailing a Boy Scout kayaking/camping outing. I meant to forward it to my husband, but hit reply instead. It included the note to my DH "I don't know why they can't plan these things more in advance, but here is the info for upcoming outing." Oops.

In your case, I wouldn't feel too badly. Obviously something this mom needs to hear.

cmpeter
PEAceful Pea

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Posted: 1/28/2013 11:33:22 PM
I think your reply sounds great. It sounds like something that has actually been a long time coming.

TravelAgent
Resident Smart Ass

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:42:17 AM
I don't for a minute think you did that on purpose, but the fact that it happened can be a very lucky break for the troop. Yes, seize this mistake to say what needs to be said.

This woman is coasting on your labor. That's not right.

Julie

I-95
It's all just nonsense anyway!

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:00:38 AM
I've done it a couple of times.

One that I forwarded to DH, an email from one of the kid's teachers, to which I added the footnote 'Wouldn't you think a teacher would use spell check? And she's in charge of our child's education? Great!!!...then promptly hit send before I realized I had hit reply not forward...ouch.

gar
Whoopea!

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:05:48 AM
Well, I guess it's forced the issue and that did need to be done. Make the most of it! Perhaps pre-empting her reply and calling her might be a smart move and will give you 'control' of the confrontation in a way.


pjaye
The only happy ending will be mine

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:27:36 AM
When I was a nurse manager I had a nurse call in to say that she might not come to work because she couldn't get her child to sleep and that she "might be in later"
I was not her manager, someone else was and she told me he knew all about this and it was OK and she was allowed to come on shift whenever she wanted.
This was news to me, I worked there for 2 years and had never heard this and I was also in a position where I would be questioned by my manager if I didn't replace her on her shift (and it was now too late to do that) and I wasn't going to be working the next two days. So I emailed the managers group. I was still professional, and I stated the facts and asked if this was true and why her child's insomnia would prevent her from working?

Yup - emailed that to the entire NURSE group and not the managers group, she was also in that group and would get the email & every nurse who worked for us got that email. I recalled the email immediately. I just felt sick.
Anyway I decided my only course of action was to be proactive and honest, so I called her straight away and told her what I did. I apologized and said that I sent the email to the wrong group and also apologized in advance for any embarrassment this would cause her.
I told her exactly what they email said and why I wrote that.
Luckily she accepted my apology and it didn't go any further.

Big life lesson, since then (4 years ago) if I need to send an email to a 'group' I never select the group name, I add each name individually!

AussieMeg
How about you, Lash LaRue?

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Posted: 1/29/2013 4:52:47 AM
I did that about 15 years ago. A colleague from interstate sent me a very rude email asking me why I hadn't done something. I had in fact done it, which I told him. Then I forwarded his email to a friend of mine that I worked with, and said "Have a look at what this F***wit sent me". Only I hit reply, not forward. It took me about 10 seconds to realise, hang on a sec, I can't remember typing Kelly's name.... OH SH!T !!!! Luckily this was in the days when a sent email would sit in your Outbox for about 30 seconds before actually sending, so I was able to delete it just in time. I have been very careful ever since, and try not to put in an emial something that I would not say to a person's face.

writermom1
Thrift Whisperer

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:03:28 AM

"I really do apologize for sending you that note, but not for the sentiment. Co-Leader and I already organize the troop, do nuts/cookies, audits and work with the girls. This sale is for six total hours each year. All we asked of you both is two."


Is more succinct and completely appropriate I think.

I would suggest adding "when can we expect your ..." As opposed to "can you ...?"
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Peabay
Happy now?

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:12:37 AM
I think I'd head her off at the pass and send the email even before she reads it. Take control of the message, kwim?

And yes, I once got an email from my dd's softball coach and forwarded it to my dh, saying: "Can you drive her to this? I don't have the time."

Yep, hit reply. The coach was like: "Was this for me? I assume maybe it was your husband, but I can give her a ride if you need."

Princess Pea
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:19:01 AM

"I really do apologize for sending you that note, but not for the sentiment. Co-Leader and I already organize the troop, do nuts/cookies, audits and work with the girls. This sale is for six total hours each year. All we asked of you both is two."


Is more succinct and completely appropriate I think.

I would suggest adding "when can we expect your ..." As opposed to "can you ...?"


ITA.

Bingcherry
PeaFixture

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:36:09 AM
Yup. I did something very similar but to my DH's boss

My DH forwarded me a group invitation to a work party / reception given by my DH's boss. It was very short notice and I was not happy about having to rearrange my schedule. I shot off a quick email to my DH saying something to the effect of how I wished his boss would give us some more notice since a lot of spouses worked and some of us had to arrange child care. Of course it wasn't as nice and polite as it could have been. Boy was I shocked when his boss replied to me saying he was sorry about the short notice but he still hoped I could attend.
Thankfully his boss has a good sense of humor and laughed it off
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Kez221
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Posted: 1/29/2013 7:51:28 AM

"So sorry! Wish we could! Got plans and friends in for the weekend!"


Ah, I thought you were talking about me there for a minute! This year is DD's first year, but is a second year Daisy. I've been asking the leader since September for a calendar of up-coming events but I'm still waiting. I told her at the weekend (aquarium trip) that we may not be able to do booths as we have assorted friends and family visiting us over the next couple of months, plus other commitments. Sometimes that's the way it goes. Oh, and still no booth dates!

I wouldn't worry about it too much, if she's a consistent slacker then she's no doubt heard it all before.

Rhondito
MississiPEA

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:21:59 AM
I did that a few months ago. I thought I forwarded to my boss but actually replied to my customer.
If I remember correctly, I had asked, "What am I supposed to do with this?" and I intended to convey exasperation. Luckily, the customer didn't pick up on the sentiment of the message and I sent him an email right away saying, "Please disregard my last email - it was supposed to go to Jack. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Rhondito
MississiPEA

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:24:28 AM
OP - I've never been involved with Girl Scouts in any way so I don't know how things work. Can you make it a requirement that the girls and parents must put in the two hours of cookie selling? If she doesn't participate then her daughter can't participate in the group and its activities?

Velouria
Pixie Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:27:22 AM

But in the 10 years we've been a troop, she has done ZERO. Not one single thing.


Then I wouldn't feel too bad about accidentally sending her that email.


SmartyPants71
MTB Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:45:51 AM
I wouldn't feel to bad about that. That stinks that she doesn't help out.

I have accidentally done what you have done, so I have set up a rule in outlook so that every outgoing mail sits in my Outbox for 1 minute. Hopefully, that allows me enough time to catch a mistake.

Darcy_Collins
PeaFixture

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:12:43 PM

Actually, today I forwarded a file from a co-worker to a designer we work with regularly...and I didn't delete the bottom part of the e-mail where my co-worker said his work was sloppy and unprofessional.

I apologized profusely and he seemed to be cool with everything, but I was mortified.


I did something very similar years ago when I was very early in my career. It involved a client and was truly something I should have been fired for. I never, ever put jokes, rants, gossip or anything else in an email. It's not just who YOU send it to - but like the above poster a colleague or friend can accidentally send it to the wrong person.

My only question to the OP is just how blunt were you with your co-leader? I think if you crossed the line in how you spoke of a CHILD you might need to rethink the part about not regretting the sentiment. I'm not doubting or second guessing your frustration - I just think you should be prepared for a crazy mamabear if you were perhaps a little to forthcoming with your frustration of the girl.


jenjie
PEAsed to be here

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:17:20 PM
OP I would check with coleader before including her name in the conversation. You can say "we do ABC " but I wouldn't say "we are fed up" unless the other part of "we" is ok with it.

flanz
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:21:08 PM
I think your planned reply sounds good, with the exception already pointed out, about including your co-leader.

AS for me, the memorable time I did this was when I sent DH an email calling our principal a witch. Yup, replied, not forwarded... Very uncomfortable. (She had been very witchy!)

mom2cameron
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:24:40 PM
I would not feel bad about it.

auntkelly
BOOMER SOONER!

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:29:34 PM
I think your explanation is perfect, except I agree with the others who have said that you should change "we" to "I" unless you have your co-leader's permission to speak for her.

MergeLeft
Typical Liberal

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:12:23 PM
Ugh. OP, I feel for you, but I also feel for the other mom. We left GS precisely because I was tired of being hounded to man a cookie booth, sell more cookies, etc. I started to feel like my daughters and I were just cogs in a huge MLM scheme with the cookie company at the top.

And I was the cookie mom one year, and plenty involved, so it's not that I didn't do anything. But dang. Sometimes people who are very invested in the whole cookie sales thing don't realize how obnoxious it can be. The troop makes pennies for every box sold. I think I'm not the only parent who got fed up with putting in hours and hours for minimal return for our girls.

Of course the GS people always say that cookie sales are optional and no one is required to participate, but then you have troop moms complaining that the non-sellers aren't pulling their weight and do we "have any options."

It may be that this will be the impetus for this girl and her mom to leave the troop and then everyone will be happy, but I think the GS organization bears some responsibility for selling out to the cookie company and basically saying that there's no other way to support the troop. In our council (and I understand this is pretty common) any cash donation to the troop must be sent on to the council for the support of all troops. There are plenty of parents who are willing to write checks rather than spending hours schlepping cookies to make the council and cookie company rich, but we're not allowed to do so. So it creates friction.

gwen.m
BucketHead

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:15:07 PM

I think your reply sounds great. It sounds like something that has actually been a long time coming.


^^Agreed.

peaname
AncestralPea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:17:00 PM
I hate it when things like that happen. I also hate it when I make people feel bad, even of they've earned it.

I wouldn't speak for your co-leader in your email though.
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Mimima
Stay Gold, Ponyboy

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:50:14 PM
Why yes, in what I thought was a forward to my mom, I called a woman I went to high school clueless.

Thankfully, she was gracious and I learned, as others have said, to never type anything in an email I wouldn't want everyone to read.

gmcwife1
SamFan

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:57:59 PM

I have accidentally done what you have done, so I have set up a rule in outlook so that every outgoing mail sits in my Outbox for 1 minute. Hopefully, that allows me enough time to catch a mistake.


Me too


~ Dori ~

not2peased
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 1:59:48 PM
yes, I have done it and felt like a giant butt afterwards. similar situation-wanted to vent about the original email


scrap-tag
PeaAddict

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:24:11 PM
Reply all is not my friend!

mdoc
Peaing under the Radar

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:27:44 PM
I haven't done it yet (it's only a matter of time), but my SIL just replied to my MIL a week or so ago with something she intended to forward to me. MIL didn't realize that it wasn't intended for her, but she didn't like the tone. As soon as she realized what she had done, my SIL was a wreck - she called my BIL (MIL's son), who happened to be at my house at the time, in hysterics. It blew over, though.

I think the response you're proposing for her is fine, and I think you are justified in feeling that way.

LBP
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:46:07 PM
I had a vendor do that to me about a month ago and we have since quit doing business with him because of it.

They overcharged us for a service and we sent an email calling attention to the error. He apparently forwarded a message to his boss or accounting office and copied us saying "go ahead and take this amount off their account and I will slip it in on their next invoice under something else". Yeah, I replied to that one really quick. He called and tried to do damage control, but I couldn't trust him after that.

wren*walk
PeaAddict

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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:50:13 PM

"I really do apologize for sending you that note, but not for the sentiment. Co-Leader and I are TIRED and we do not want to give up our evenings/weekends any more than you and your daughter do. Co-Leader and I already organize the troop, do nuts/cookies, audits and work with the girls. This sale is for six total hours each year. All we asked of you both is two."




I'm going to have to disagree with most here and say you shouldn't send this. The mini rant does not belong in what starts out as an apology. And it should not be "we" (mentioning co-leader throughout), as it sounds as if you are trying to minimize your own role and share the blame.

Any real apology immediately loses power as soon as you run into the "BUT" word. So I would say make a real apology and take responsibility for the error (a simple "Im sorry, I didn't intend that message to go to you.....". Save the mini rant for an appropriate time (later?), and let the chips fall where they will.













jjpswife
AncestralPea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 3:57:45 PM
Bless your heart! I feel for you. And most of these stories are making me sick to my stomach with nervous knots!!

I did a REALLY bad one last year. Too confusing to go in to the details but it was BAD. Got someone else in trouble doing it. I was just beyond mortified. I was bright red and sweating and just SICK.

It sucks.

I have a note on my wall right in front of me that I wrote on a post-it a few weeks ago. It wasn't really related to anything like this but it plays here a little, I think:

Do not invite a lesson in humility. Just BE humble!

It's so hard sometimes. We are only human.

raindancer
Capt. Sparrow's Pirate Wench

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Posted: 1/29/2013 5:03:02 PM
I agree with Mergeleft. Fortunately we are in a troop that really does make it optional to participate in cookie sales.

That said, I don't like being "forced" as a parent to participate in an activity that my child is a part of. I volunteer all the time (I was even PTA president), but that is on me. *I* volunteer. It would be nice if all the parents did so, but we just don't know their circumstances. Or what else they volunteer for, or anything else, and judging them and thinking them lazy for not volunteering where *we* would is not fair. If you think you are putting too much in and not getting enough out of it for yourself then stop.

I don't participate in some activities, and you probably don't either. You might just be too busy donating your time in gs's to realize that someone, somewhere else is putting in the time for your dd to do something else and make that happen. We can't all do everything.

I think you should just apologize, and then let it go.

writermom1
Thrift Whisperer

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Posted: 1/29/2013 5:30:21 PM
Reply All really should come with an "are you certain this is what you want to do" step shouldn't it?

OP I hope by now it's turned out to be not so big a deal.

writermom1
Thrift Whisperer

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Posted: 1/29/2013 5:42:42 PM
I generally agree with Raindancer's take on this but in the case of scouting isn't it agreed upon at the time a child joins that it is a "cooperative" activity and parental involvement is required? Or no?


Maryland
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:54:08 PM
You poor thing! I am always so nervous that I will do that too. My husband says that happens a lot at work.

I don't think what you wrote is too bad. And your reply is kind. That is unfair that you do so much. My friend and I are SAHMs and we give you working moms a lot of credit! We feel like we should never complain about what we have to do because we don't work, so we have all day to get things done. You have a right to be upset. And in all those years she never offered to help in any way? Not fair.


Really Red
Pea-ceful and Hap-pea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 8:42:53 PM

That said, I don't like being "forced" as a parent to participate in an activity that my child is a part of.


Girl Scouts is cooperative. That is the understanding going in and believe me, it is made very clear that ALL scouts must work together. There are specific activities they must do together. This is one of them. Everyone knew upfront that this was a requirement (not a choice) and the only way out of it was to sell enough cookies door-to-door (the girl sold none).

There was no misunderstanding about this at all.

That said, I wrote my note of apology. In addition, I wrote a note that my co-leader (who backed me up on this and she was copied on this email) and our kids cannot and will not do it all and this was something that she and her DD agreed on at the beginning of the year. She wrote a very nice and very kind note back that basically said, yeah, too bad for you, I'm not doing it.


We feel like we should never complain about what we have to do because we don't work, so we have all day to get things done.
You rock, Maryland (my home state - go Ravens!) EVERYONE works in different ways and I would never EVER feel I had to do more or less depending on what my current job situation was and wouldn't feel that a SAHM should do more EVER. This mom has said to me that she works too much to volunteer, but she has 5 drivers (her parents live next door and her older DD is a Senior in HS) and I have 3 kids and me and just me as a driver. I think you make time for what is important and I believe she has decided that it is important for her DD to do GS, but she's having nothing of it.

Obviously GS is a service-oriented activity and everyone knows that it is not a drop off your kid type of deal, but, quite frankly, I cannot imagine putting my child in any activity and not helping out in some small way or big way if I can, even if I pay for it. Because in the end, we all volunteer. No one is making money off this.


Reply All really should come with an "are you certain this is what you want to do" step shouldn't it?
You are funny writermom! I couldn't agree more!

angievp
Ideay pues?

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Posted: 1/29/2013 8:47:03 PM
Nope.

Some of my colleagues and I were discussing a very technical legal issue and I sent her a private email (separate from all the cc's and bcc's) and said, verbatim, "I think J. is being noncommittal. Why does he continually pussyfoot around the issue?"

Guess what, that email was forwarded to J.

pennyring
Thrift Ninja

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:01:04 PM
Devil's advocate: You're the volunteer though, right? You volunteered for the job. She didn't. Your other commitments, compared to hers, are irrelevant. She probably sees no reason she should accommodate the request. It's your thing, not hers.

Yes, her kid is involved, but she didn't make any kind of commitment beyond signing her kid up for an experience.

Sorry you're not getting the help you need though.


StampinBetsy
AncestralPea

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:07:54 PM

Obviously GS is a service-oriented activity and everyone knows that it is not a drop off your kid type of deal, but, quite frankly, I cannot imagine putting my child in any activity and not helping out in some small way or big way if I can, even if I pay for it. Because in the end, we all volunteer. No one is making money off this.


Sadly, this statement isn't true for everyone. We seem to have a lot of parents in our area who see scout meetings as free babysitting. We have plenty who are totally willing to help in whatever way they can, but we have our share of those who pay their dues, drop their kid off at meetings, and we never see them.

And for whoever said they felt like we were basically selling cookies for the cookie company's benefit - my council's annual budget is greatly dependent on cookie sales. 50% of the budget comes from council's profit. That money maintains our camps, provides financial aid funds for girls who can't afford to pay national dues, and provides many worthwhile programs for our girls. If we actually went out and asked for money like the Boy Scouts do (blue and gold banquet in Cub scouts is what comes to mind here), maybe we'd be the ones with the $15 million endowment instead of the $3 million one.

:::Hijack over:::

Really Red
Pea-ceful and Hap-pea

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Posted: 1/30/2013 5:04:19 AM

Devil's advocate: You're the volunteer though, right? You volunteered for the job. She didn't. Your other commitments, compared to hers, are irrelevant. She probably sees no reason she should accommodate the request. It's your thing, not hers.

Yes, her kid is involved, but she didn't make any kind of commitment beyond signing her kid up for an experience.



This is NOT the situation with Girl Scouts. As I said in an earlier post. She absolutely made this commitment AND her daughter (who is 15) did as well. They knew what they had to do BEFORE going into this. Knew it and it was very, very clear. This is a part of what is expected in most GS troops and absolutely in our tiny one.

And seriously? It's my "thing, not hers?" Are you freaking joking? I do not do this for me!!! I do this for the girls and it takes a lot of my time which I willingly give. This is above and beyond my commitment. Wow.

writermom1
Thrift Whisperer

PeaNut 114,407
November 2003
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Loc: At the intersection of Hooterville and Stars Hollow

Posted: 1/30/2013 6:49:21 AM

Yes, her kid is involved, but she didn't make any kind of commitment beyond signing her kid up for an experience.


Sounds like she did and we now get to the entitlement issues. "I like what it has to offer my child, but the pesky service commitment? I'm just not into that."

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Peabay
Happy now?

PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
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Loc: Connecticut

Posted: 1/30/2013 7:10:15 AM

Devil's advocate: You're the volunteer though, right? You volunteered for the job. She didn't. Your other commitments, compared to hers, are irrelevant. She probably sees no reason she should accommodate the request. It's your thing, not hers.

Yes, her kid is involved, but she didn't make any kind of commitment beyond signing her kid up for an experience.

Sorry you're not getting the help you need though.



That's not how GS works. Both the child and a parent join. Time and effort from both are expected.

bobomommy
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 190,378
February 2005
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Loc: Near Atlanta, GA

Posted: 1/30/2013 11:02:55 AM
Since you said the girl is 15, I don't understand why the kid couldn't sell cookies on her own. I'd even go pick her up and let her work the same two hour slot that I'm working.

I'd also be REALLY tempted to plan something fun to reward the girls who sold cookies. Make it something that NO ONE would want to miss out on. When "No Sales Sally" tried to sign up, I'd check my master list and say, "Oh dear, it appears you didn't sell any cookies. You won't be able to go with us. Bless your heart! Well, maybe you can go next year."

BudgetMama
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 138,670
March 2004
Posts: 2,354
Layouts: 2
Loc: Oregon

Posted: 1/30/2013 11:18:10 AM
While I think we need to be mindful that just because someone doesn't help out with ABC doesn't mean they are doing nothing at all. I don't help out with my dd's church group (like awana) but I do several other things that take about 8 hours a week. If I were told I had to teach sunday school or help with dd's group, I would have to decline.

However, it sounds like the mom and daughter here have reached the end of the line of not fulfilling their obligations. Perhaps it's time for a "come to Jesus" talk:
"Since Mom and Daughter do not wish to fulfill the obligations of belonging to troup XYZ, we need to release them from their membership".

valincal
True North Strong and Free

PeaNut 227,939
October 2005
Posts: 14,480
Layouts: 5
Loc: Southern Alberta

Posted: 1/30/2013 11:32:06 AM
I don't like the way gmail works for this very reason. Last week I replied to an email from DS's teacher with a note intended for DS. It took me a few seconds to realise I hadn't selected my son's address before I hit send. Annoying!

Anyhow, some of your stories are making me giggle!

MergeLeft
Typical Liberal

PeaNut 221,236
August 2005
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Loc: Houston

Posted: 1/30/2013 12:53:43 PM

And for whoever said they felt like we were basically selling cookies for the cookie company's benefit - my council's annual budget is greatly dependent on cookie sales. 50% of the budget comes from council's profit. That money maintains our camps, provides financial aid funds for girls who can't afford to pay national dues, and provides many worthwhile programs for our girls.


Yes, the council is definitely the middle man in the pyramid with the troop and girls at the bottom. My feeling as a parent and volunteer was that the individual girl got very little return for her time and effort with regards to cookie sales. My girls never went to camp or any programs so there was no benefit that way. I would much rather have been able to just write a check to the troop to cover what I was expected to sell in cookies, but that wasn't allowed.

I think the vast majority of girls in GS are involved mostly at the troop level, with only a minority going to camps, benefiting from leadership programs, etc. But ALL scouts are expected to earn money to fund those things. And woe to the scout whose parents work in environments that don't allow soliciting. They never had a chance.

I don't know - clearly the answer is, if you don't like it, you can leave, so that's what we chose to do. I got tired of being hounded to sell cookies for other people's benefit.
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