Why the hell can't they do anything to get that little boy out of that underground bunker?

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Posted 2/2/2013 by Yubon in NSBR Board
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Yubon
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:28:57 PM
I know there is another thread on this, but it has derailed into a debate over gun rights and mental illness. They are not talking about how to get the boy out. Seems like no one is. While I understand that authorities are being tight-lipped about the whole thing because the asshole gets a few TV stations inside the bunker, but I also don't see them doing anything but standing around with their thumbs up their asses.

If someone snagged my 5-yr-old son off a bus and was holding him in a bunker only 4 fucking feet deep, you'd have to pry a damn shovel out of my hands and drag my ass away from the scene and lock me up. And then I'd be all over the cable channels demanding action.

We can put a man on the moon, drop a Seal team in to put bullets in the heads of pirates, rescue 33 miners deep in the ground in Chile, and yet no one seems to be able to get a little boy out of a 4-ft hole? Seriously there is NOTHING we can do but wait this guy out? Fuck that.



FlaMom
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:31:18 PM
I have to say I agree with you. I absolutely cannot imagine being this boy's mother and coming out of this with my sanity intact.


Tammy

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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:37:22 PM
I never agree with you, Yubon, except this time, 100% I too cant imagine the fear the boys parents feel. I pray that little boy comes out of this ok and that the bastard that has him rots in hell.




rcarpen
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:38:00 PM
I, like the op, need to know this little boy is okay. I want him out if that hole in the ground. I need to see a happy ending here. The world is a mean place and I need hope.


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dizzypea
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:38:15 PM
I was just wondering the same thing! What the hell?



JamieBohBamie
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:41:39 PM
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who is irrationally angry over this. I don't see how they can't rescue this child already. What are they doing? They can get him his meds and color books though a 4" pipe but they can't put together a mission to get him out? This is going on DAY FIVE! I'm beyond furious.



*KAS*
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:45:11 PM
I don't disagree with you. It seems so odd to me. I mean, I understand that they are trying to be cautious because he has no fear of shooting to kill. But why can't they drop one of those things down the hole that makes them both go unconscious? Or SOMETHING?!?


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Luvnlifelady
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:45:31 PM
I know the feeling. However, if this guy took out the bus driver in front of kids, wouldn't he just kill the kid if he heard someone trying to get into the bunker?

They may be thinking that he has to come out eventually and are waiting for that. However, even then, he might kill the kid before he has to come out and go out in a blaze of guns.

So sad for the family and the boy. I hope he gets out safely.



PierKiss
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:46:31 PM
Agreed. I don't understand why they can get that boy the eff out of that hole either. Nobody has thought yet to tunnel in from the other side? Drop a tiny robotic camera down the tube that looks like a bug to you know, see if that kid is even still alive? SOMETHING????



myshelly
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:46:54 PM
I canNOT believe this situation has gone on for so long!!!!





Yubon
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:47:51 PM
I read an article today that said this guy has spent up to 8 days at a time in the bunker before. So does that mean they are waiting for him to run out of food or something? They don't think that desperation will sit in and this guy will be on edge once he starts running out of food? Don't they think that he would stop feeding the child first? Not to mention that he has already spent 4 days with a needy child in a room that is less than 50 sq ft. Anyone would get a little tired of that situation, real quick. I also can't imagine there is any ventilation down there and that just the stench of human waste could kill someone after a few days.

The whole thing is so beyond explainable at this point.



JamieBohBamie
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:49:00 PM
I get the thinking that he will run out of supplies eventually and have to come out, but 1. how long will that be? and 2. how fr gone will this poor child be? At what point will it be impossible for this child to recover completely? Every minute in that bunker has to be seriously effecting this child.

Also, just because he has previously chosen to stay in the bunker for eight days, doesn't mean he couldn't survive in there for a lot more when he doesn't have much choice. These survivalist types often have weeks or months worth of water, food, and supplies stashed away.



**cindyupnorth**
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:52:01 PM
I keep thinking the whole thing is resolved, because ya don't hear a THING about it on the news? I to am like...???? !!






graciebeth
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:52:18 PM
yeah I dont get it either.. crazy

I mean really if it was my kid,id be like the OP but would also be open to them piping in laughing gas,tear gas whatever so long as harmless in order to cause some distraction to the moron who has him AND GET THE KID OUT.. i mean really? just seems like theres SOMETHING they could do other than wait this guy out,THATS giving him what he wants, control.

-grace

KikiNichole

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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:53:33 PM
Maybe they know something we don't know.


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sunny 5
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:55:12 PM
the police are better off being cautious and getting the kid out alive...vs going in with guns blazing. playing the waiting game may very well get them what the police want...safe return of child.

easy to say what we would do...but need to let the trained professionals take their time to solve it...not kill everyone.

Nicole in TX
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:58:23 PM
I can't even imagine. That poor, sweet boy.



beachgurl
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Posted: 2/2/2013 4:59:04 PM

Not to mention that he has already spent 4 days with a needy child in a room that is less than 50 sq ft. Anyone would get a little tired of that situation, real quick.


Seriously. Even if I was in a space that size with my most awesome dgd, I'd be ready to crack by now.




danid
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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:03:35 PM
I heard someone say this morning that they are trying to "negotiate" him out....talk to him until he feels comfortable coming out and talking in person...WTH?? That baby has been in there FIVE days!! Do something to get him out and back home with his family for God's sake!!

The situation in the bunker may be calm right now...but it won't take much longer for that poor boy to start driving that man a bit crazy and then I'm afraid of what he will do to him....


~~**Debi**~~



mishkismom
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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:04:10 PM
Do you really think if it were that easy it wouldn't have been done by now? What do you suggest? Dropping someone down the 4 inch hole?
I doubt they haven't gone in because they don't feel like it.
The thing I question is if all of the things he supposedly did are true (killing the neighbors dog, threatening with firearms etc) why is the justice system so broken he is allowed to roam free.
I feel for the family of the boy and the bus driver but it is demanding answers like this that made such a mess out of Newtown.


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Tuva42
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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:05:29 PM
What do you propose they do? Drop "something" through the hole to knock him out? Yeah, right, those things take a few minutes to work. He'd have plenty of time to kill the child before he passed out.
Dig down and make another hole? Oh, yeah, no way he'll hear that!
Storm the door with a SWAT Team? Again, he'd have plenty of time to shoot the child.
The authorities on the scene are talking to the guy and he isn't threatening to kill that poor little boy any time soon, he's not making crazy demands. Yes, they need to get that kid out but they need to do it with out killing him in the process. Tell me how you would do that?


Laurie

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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:27:05 PM
On one hand, I can't imagine being his mother and doing nothing. How could you stop yourself?
On the other hand- if the police told me I was going to endanger my child in any way...by doing anything, anything at all...I would do nothing. Even if it meant I'd have be sedated (to shut me up and keep me inside) until it was over.

I imagine it's much harder for her to sit by and do nothing. 'Easy' would be talking to anyone that would listen, shovel in hand.

I'm sure the authorities are doing what they can, and not broadcasting the details. Why would they keep this going a minute longer than necessary?

finally~a~mama
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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:45:47 PM
I can't imagine what that poor little boy & is family are going through.

I also can't imagine what the authorities could do to get him out that wouldn't endanger him. They are underground. How could you get to them without them knowing it? If they put some sort of gas down in it, would it work immediately or would the guy have time to kill both of them?




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AncestralPea

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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:46:59 PM
Cannot wrap my head around what that little guy is going through and the anguish his familynis going through.

They reported they are in contact with the kidnapper. He is mentally unstable and killed the bus driver. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback. Praying that he will be safe and come out of the bunker soon.

Mallie
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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:51:13 PM
Is there proof the little boy is actually still alive?

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AncestralPea

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Posted: 2/2/2013 5:59:40 PM
According to the news tonight they can hear him crying

PEArfect
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:06:22 PM
I just don't understand why the man had to involve a child to begin with. If you are that miserable, and don't want to seek out help, just kill yourself. Why kill a bus driver and kidnap a child? I just don't understand.

I think the authorities are doing what they feel is best to insure the safety of the boy. Hopefully the negotiaters will be able to talk him out of the bunker.


Jen


knit.pea
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:38:41 PM
I just cannot believe it is taking this long.

I hope they have somehow scanned that area and have verified there
actually are explosives there as the reason for not going in.
I would have to be sedated if I was that boy's mom.

And if this guy is such a hothead, HOW on earth is he dealing
with a special needs child???

rosiekat
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:38:58 PM

If you are that miserable, and don't want to seek out help, just kill yourself. Why kill a bus driver and kidnap a child? I just don't understand.


I totally understand what you mean, but you're thinking about it logically and "normally." Someone who is this ill and presumably having a psychotic period or something is simply not thinking in a way that makes sense to any of the rest of us. I've seen it before (thankfully on a vastly more miniscule scale).

I do believe authorities are working on this desperately, and are trying to do what they can as quickly as they can...but yeah, I truly cannot begin to imagine. And on a lighter note, I'm inclined to agree with those who said they can't imagine being in that space with a kid for this long!

I suspect the authorities just really feel like their hands are tied, but I have to trust that they are human beings and as sickened by this as we are. Most of them are (I'm assuming) parents, too, and I have to trust that if they can come up with a solution, they will. Sometimes there is no great answer.


Jen


2peafaithful
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:40:01 PM

chocluver
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:42:37 PM
Haven't been following too closely. Does the guy have a weapon down there?

*KAS*
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:45:32 PM

Drop a tiny robotic camera down the tube that looks like a bug to you know, see if that kid is even still alive? SOMETHING????


I read, I think on CNN?, they have have spoken to the little boy via the pipe they have been using to speak to the guy, so they know he's 'ok' so far.

And I do know a hostage negotiator is talking to him.

I understand being cautious. It just seems so crazy that in this day and age a man can kidnap a child and take him into a hole in the ground for 5 DAYS and there's nothing that can be done. I'm not saying they are or aren't doing anything wrong, it's just crazy.


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maddiesmum
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:47:21 PM
I so agree with you, Yubon! I cannot imagine how awful it must be for everyone who loves him.

I heard that the little boy is autistic. Does anyone know if that's true?

maddiesmum
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:50:02 PM

Impossible. Nobody knows more than the peas.


Spoken like the #1 know-it-all on the board you are.

birukitty
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Posted: 2/2/2013 6:58:00 PM
Because it's a unique hostage situation. The authorities that are handling this know that if they storm the bunker there is a very good likelihood the child will be killed by the kidnapper. As hard as it is to wait they know how to handle hostage situations in order to come out with the best outcome in most cases.

In this case, it's an even trickier situation because there is no way the authorities can sneak up or into where the boy is being held. They are doing what they can to rescue this boy without having the boy killed by the kidnapper. We aren't privy to all of the information because the kidnapper has a TV down there and they (let's just call them the FBI) obviously wants to keep as much information away from the kidnapper that they can.

I can't even begin to imagine the agony the parent's must be going through after this much time. It must be horrific. But if that were my child I'd trust the FBI to handle it based on their training and experience, not what I as a parent would prefer.

Debbie in MD.

basketlacey
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:02:58 PM
I hear you Yubon! I have been sick over this situation. It doesn't seem to be getting much media attention which is very odd to me. I also haven't seen the parents or any family members on the air. I haven't been glued to the tv but thinking to other news stories, I can picture the tears and anguish of the relatives as they play clips over and over. This whole thing just seems to be hush hush.

I am sure they know what they are doing but my heart breaks for this little boy and his family!



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StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:11:27 PM
Maybe they know something we don't know.


Impossible. Nobody knows more than the peas.



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scrappower
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:17:07 PM
They aren't giving it much airtime because he has a TV. It isn't a conspiracy. I am sure there is much we don't know and rightly so, some things need to be kept quiet to protect the child.



scrapper100
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:18:03 PM
It is just so strange he didn't want to go to court so he pulls this stunt to get out of it but this is obviously a worse crime so it makes no sense. I feel so bad for the terrified little boy and his family and the bus driver and his family. If he had demands it would make more sense but it really doesn't seem that he does - I think the neighbor dropped the complaint against him so that can't be the reason at this point.

I also heard he said it was rigged and booby trapped so they are afraid to just go in for fear of the boy or rescuers being injured. I just hope that he lets the boy go soon. How does a child get over something like this? I just find it hard to believe that he is still down there. It seemed odd in the beginning and seems even odder now.


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scrappygirlnextdoor
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:30:17 PM
Ditto, Yubon!!! Crazy, and so sad. Those poor parents; I can't even imagine what they're going through!


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Aggiemom92
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:37:31 PM

Maybe they know something we don't know.


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TXDancermom
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:49:25 PM
it is frustrating, but I think the local authorities are being cautious, and not holding continual news conferences.

I also wonder if they are afraid that he has the entrance(s) to the bunker booby trapped....

Pea-T-A-Mom
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:53:03 PM
What I want to know is how come my newspaper hasn't reported ONE PEEP of this story? It's the San Jose Mercury News, a major metropolitan newspaper, and the entire front page has been devoted to the Superbowl and the team coaches/brothers for the past week. Turning a few pages in today, there a little ink about the suicide bomber at the American Embassy in Turkey, and a whole lot of full page ads. Nothing about this murder and kidnapping.

I realize I live in "Niners' Territory", but give me a break! News reporting has become such a joke!

I'm so sad for the little boy. He must be so frightened. His parents must be so distraught. And I mourn for the bus driver's family. Such a tragedy.


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nancyscrappin
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Posted: 2/2/2013 8:02:51 PM
I was thinking the same thing as Kelli, and the OP.

doesitmatter?
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Posted: 2/2/2013 8:08:16 PM
I had no idea he is still being held. I'm not understanding why either... But clearly they do know more and have reasons / I can't imagine what they are or what they know- but I'm certain they are allowing this to keep the boy alive. I can't imagine the boy's trauma and his family, his mother.... Praying.

I can tell you I would have lost it in that small a space - without a kidnapper. I can't imagine a special needs child with this monster. Do they even have water?

This world.... Scary place sometimes. And I agree the lack of media attention is likely with the boys safety in mind- as they said he has a tv?


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Posted: 2/2/2013 8:15:23 PM
web page

Just saw this on CNN.


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Mallie
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Posted: 2/2/2013 8:24:44 PM
I'm not sure how you can successfully negotiate with a psychotic who's willing to kill anyone who stands in his way.

melanell
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Posted: 2/2/2013 9:33:08 PM
I'm sure there are several very logical reasons for what is happening, however, ITA with this:



If someone snagged my 5-yr-old son off a bus and was holding him in a bunker only 4 fucking feet deep, you'd have to pry a damn shovel out of my hands and drag my ass away from the scene and lock me up.


Because I just don't know if I could be logical as a parent in a situation like that. I really don't.

And the worst part is that if I did do something that resulted in things getting even worse, I'd have to live with that the rest of my life, but I still don't know if I'd be thinking about that either if I was dealing with something like this.

Not only would I want to shovel my way down there, but I'd want to beat that son of a b!tch with the same shovel when I reached them. (You know, assuming he didn't just shoot me, too.)

Like I said, completely irrational, I know, but I am livid at this guy and it's not my kid, so I don't know if rational thought would be happening for me if it were my kid.



Stinky Rose
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Posted: 2/2/2013 9:39:48 PM
They are keeping his demands quiet and he has enough food and supplies to last for months. They are being careful and diligent. If they stormed the bunker and the child was killed, we would be blaming them for that. And like our governor said yesterday, no mistakes can afford to be made.


But why can't they drop one of those things down the hole that makes them both go unconscious?
If he's a serious prepper, he has gas masks.



nettieintx
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Posted: 2/2/2013 9:41:22 PM
I worry not only to the mental trams to him but what if he's sexually abusing him??? Makes me crazy.
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