| |
wellway
PeaNut
PeaNut 411,812
February 2009
Posts: 80
Layouts: 0
 |  Posted: 2/11/2013 5:23:00 AM
Pope resigns
That is a surprise. | |
|
Christine58
pea'rific teacher Union President
PeaNut 164,125
August 2004
Posts: 21,135
Layouts: 0
Loc: Western NY
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:44:55 AM
Here's his statement
Dear Brothers,
I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.
Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.
From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
|
 
Some people only dream of angels, I have held one in my arms.
| |
|
|
NativeNewYorker
black eyed pea with soul!
PeaNut 15,878
May 2001
Posts: 24,966
Layouts: 70
Loc: LI, NY
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:45:09 AM
I didn't see it coming. |
|
|
pjaye
The only happy ending will be mine
PeaNut 111,502
October 2003
Posts: 6,193
Layouts: 59
Loc: Vic, Australia
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:46:16 AM
Definitely a surprise.
I didn't think they could resign, I thought they all died in office...however obviously that's not true.
What does a retired Pope do I wonder?
It's currently "breaking news" here on TV, so it seems to be true. They just said it has been 600 years since the last Pope stood down.
Maybe seeing John Paul II being wheeled around in such obviously poor health in his last few years helped him to decide that he wouldn't allow the same thing to happen to him. | |
|
Peabay
Happy now?
PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
Posts: 44,683
Layouts: 13
Loc: Connecticut
| Posted: 2/11/2013 5:47:36 AM
That's very strange. John Paul had advanced Parkinson's and stayed in. Very strange. |
|
|
JRussell
Naturalist Pea
PeaNut 26,719
January 2002
Posts: 9,268
Layouts: 58
Loc: Canadian Trailhead
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:47:51 AM
It is very surprising. Popes generally don't resign, they pass away.
It's understandable that being the Pope in this day and age is very tricky, especially at his advanced age. |
|
|
Bridget in MD
PeaAddict
PeaNut 8,619
December 2000
Posts: 1,893
Layouts: 14
Loc: St. Mary's Co., Maryland
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:48:07 AM
I didn't realize they COULD resign - how come John Paul II didn't when he was so very sick?... (I'm not being snarky, I am Lutheran so I don't know much about the Pope). |
|
|
megan_in_pink
PeaAddict
PeaNut 286,312
December 2006
Posts: 1,793
Layouts: 17
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 5:56:11 AM
He says it is due to failing mental health... |
|
|
katybee8
AncestralPea
PeaNut 421,136
April 2009
Posts: 4,947
Layouts: 8
Loc: Chicago NW burbs
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:02:53 AM
If it's failing mental health, I am guessing he has decided to resign before some sort of dementia has him being undignified in public or making poor decisions. | |
|
ksuheather
low-information individual
PeaNut 190,373
February 2005
Posts: 7,935
Layouts: 0
Loc: wherever the army sends us
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:09:54 AM
What a surprise to wake up to
|
A veteran is someone who, at one
point in his life, wrote a blank check
made payable to 'The United States of
America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'
| |
|
|
dottyscrapper
PeaAddict
PeaNut 311,985
April 2007
Posts: 1,081
Layouts: 0
Loc: UK
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:12:49 AM
I'm not catholic but I would imagine that was a very difficult decision for him to make.
"However, in today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to steer the boat of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfil the ministry entrusted to me.
Reading more into this part of the statement I would guess he has the onset of dimentia or something similar.
| |
|
hop2
AncestralPea
PeaNut 43,893
July 2002
Posts: 4,357
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:14:46 AM
I understand his concerns, I hope he is able to find peace. | |
|
Peabay
Happy now?
PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
Posts: 44,683
Layouts: 13
Loc: Connecticut
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:15:49 AM
If it's failing mental health, I am guessing he has decided to resign before some sort of dementia has him being undignified in public or making poor decisions.
I'm sure, but it's just so strange. In the past, they would cover for failing health - limit public appearances etc...
He was one of the oldest Popes elected. I bet they go for another JPII - young and vital. |
|
|
Judie in Oz
PEAing Upside Down
PeaNut 12,503
March 2001
Posts: 7,222
Layouts: 44
Loc: Down Under
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:20:03 AM
It could also be something to do with all the church-related sexual abuse cases being raised world-wide. Maybe there's something he thinks may be detrimental to his tenure as Pope?
Judie | |
|
voltagain
OklaPhoma
PeaNut 18,334
July 2001
Posts: 35,153
Layouts: 15
Loc: State of cultural confusion. Yeehaw and Aloha have collided!
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:26:41 AM
It could also be something to do with all the church-related sexual abuse cases being raised world-wide. Maybe there's something he thinks may be detrimental to his tenure as Pope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seriously? They can't fire him as Pope and there isn't a position to be promoted into so there is absolutely nothing that is detrimental to his tenure.
I'll take it at face value that he feels he can't do an adequate job. Kudos to him for recognizing that AND being willing to let go of the ego to step down. |
|
|
melanell
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 26,836
January 2002
Posts: 14,514
Layouts: 86
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:28:25 AM
I'm shocked. This is the first time in living history that any Pope has chosen to do this, so it seems so bizarre to me. Like others, I didn't even realize that they had that option. |
|
|
Peabay
Happy now?
PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
Posts: 44,683
Layouts: 13
Loc: Connecticut
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:29:55 AM
Seriously? They can't fire him as Pope and there isn't a position to be promoted into so there is absolutely nothing that is detrimental to his tenure.
She didn't say anything that a lot of people aren't thinking. It may not be detrimental to his tenure, but any revelations of that nature would be detrimental to the Catholic Church. |
|
|
voltagain
OklaPhoma
PeaNut 18,334
July 2001
Posts: 35,153
Layouts: 15
Loc: State of cultural confusion. Yeehaw and Aloha have collided!
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:33:11 AM
She didn't say anything that a lot of people aren't thinking. It may not be detrimental to his tenure, but any revelations of that nature would be detrimental to the Catholic Church.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No argument that it would be detrimental to the Catholic church. But the Pope's tenure is not equal to the Catholic church. It is specific to him. |
|
|
Spongemom Scrappants
HRH pilates teaching wino ball of fun
PeaNut 297,141
February 2007
Posts: 10,628
Layouts: 31
Loc: South Carolina
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:34:49 AM
I think it's an admirable decision. Too many popes have been too debilitated to serve and it drug on that way for years. I would think it's better for the Catholic church to have a leader who has the health and presence of mind to actually lead.
Admittedly, I'm not Catholic and never have been (although I did attend a Catholic school early on), but it would seem the influence of the Catholic church has diminished so much that this decision won't have near the impact it would have in the past. I have a difficult time respecting the position of the Catholic church on anything after all the scandal that has happened. |
Angie
Where the boys are... my new husband, my four sons and my boy cat.
| |
|
|
Shih Tzu Mommy
Million dollar camera, 10 dollar lock!
PeaNut 224,352
September 2005
Posts: 23,525
Layouts: 0
Loc: Right here
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 6:35:04 AM
I say good for him for knowing that he cannot be the leader he wants to be and that the Church needs him to be. I wonder who the next Pope will be? |
Dog people are a special breed! | |
|
|
*KAS*
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 408,684
January 2009
Posts: 6,745
Layouts: 0
Loc: Georgia girl
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:41:05 AM
This is surprising. I was able to learn so much about the process of electing a new Pope when I visited the Vatican this past fall. I feel like I have a new appreciation for how serious (and 'old school') the process is.
Knowing that he knows this, I'm surprised, but he knows his mental / physical health and what he's capable of. |
***********************
KELLI
Had to delete my old account, but I've been here since July 2006! | |
|
|
*maureen*
Bad Wolf
PeaNut 191,892
February 2005
Posts: 5,314
Layouts: 0
Loc: Wheaton
| Posted: 2/11/2013 6:52:52 AM
I'm impressed, it takes some guts to do something that no one has done in the last 600 years. I hope as his life comes to a close he finds peace. | |
|
myboysnme
one of those "entitled" peas
PeaNut 69,081
February 2003
Posts: 6,737
Layouts: 1
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:05:55 AM
Speaking as a family in which 3 out of 4 of us left the church during his 'reign' so to speak, I am actually hopeful, at least for now, that we can stop turning back the clock and move forward. |
My choice is to not take it personally - people have opinions. Particularly people here.-Peabay 12/29/11
I know this is assuming, but I'm really starting to think you are one of those "entitled" peas - Dalayney 4/2/12
profile pic courtesy of GreenEyedLady Designs at Scrap ARt Studio.
| |
|
|
TinaFB
the lunatics have taken over the asylum
PeaNut 25,135
November 2001
Posts: 25,635
Layouts: 349
Loc: Maryland
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:08:39 AM
He's the first pope to resign since 1415, according to CNN. His statement is lovely and sad at the same time. |
Tina
Memorial Day 2013 ~ We Remember
 | |
|
|
Peabay
Happy now?
PeaNut 156,993
July 2004
Posts: 44,683
Layouts: 13
Loc: Connecticut
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:18:04 AM
Speaking as a family in which 3 out of 4 of us left the church during his 'reign' so to speak, I am actually hopeful, at least for now, that we can stop turning back the clock and move forward.
Oh, I don't know. I think they'll stay as conservative, if not more.  |
|
|
scoobers
Why, YES!, I am a princess.
PeaNut 417,049
March 2009
Posts: 12,860
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:22:38 AM
Anyone think it's odd they are using the term 'resigning' vs 'retiring'?
|
|
|
AnonPeaName
PeaNut
PeaNut 570,169
October 2012
Posts: 267
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:24:20 AM
But the Pope's tenure is not equal to the Catholic church. It is specific to him.
To many non-Catholics, the Pope does equal the Catholic church. | |
|
scrappower
Allons-y Alonso
PeaNut 174,150
October 2004
Posts: 13,020
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:28:32 AM
Posted: 2/11/2013 7:22:38 AM
Anyone think it's odd they are using the term 'resigning' vs 'retiring'?
No, because it is a lifetime appointment, not something you retire from.
Definitely not something I was expecting to hear this morning. My mom who is a lifelong catholic is pleased though. She did not like him one bit. |
 
Blessed Be! | |
|
|
maryannscraps
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 75,215
March 2003
Posts: 6,395
Layouts: 2
Loc: massachusetts
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:32:08 AM
I hadn't thought dementia -- that would be a good reason to resign.
As for revelations relating to the sex scandals, I don't think that's it. He was elected in the middle of all that, and chosen for his (extreme) conservative views. He doesn't think any of them did anything wrong. I don't believe he'd step down for that.
Are there any young cardinals? | |
|
guzismom
Ancient Ancestor of Pea
PeaNut 31,617
March 2002
Posts: 9,346
Layouts: 59
Loc: southern new mexico
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:36:07 AM
That statement is too ambiguous to infer that the Pope is stepping down due to mental health concerns. It could simple be that "infirm" means bodily weakness OR mental weakness...we just don't know nor do I think it matters.
I have not been a fan of our current Pope but respect him immensely for recognizing his situation and taking measures to ensure our church has strong, healthy leadership. We need it. God Bless him.
|
Marilyn (now in New Mexico!!)
SCUBA diving and SCRAPPING Mom of two
Canon 5DMkII, 24-70 2.8L; 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.4;
my blog | |
|
|
BuckeyeSandy
Old Dogs are Best!
PeaNut 92,987
June 2003
Posts: 22,382
Layouts: 364
Loc: With my dogs
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:44:52 AM
Gut feeling, we would have a Conclave (meeting of the "prince-electors" of the Roman Church) before the year ended.
His health must be very poor indeed. |
Sandy
Every MOM is a working mom!
"Retired" after 22 years of an Air Force Career
REMEMBER this Veterans Day
To quote Wayne Gretzky, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."
Aesculus | |
|
|
*Shannah*
Haven't you heard about the word?
PeaNut 242,768
January 2006
Posts: 6,009
Layouts: 2
Loc: Looking at the purple mountain majesties
| Posted: 2/11/2013 8:47:22 AM
they've been reporting on the news that the College of Cardinals doesn't have many moderates in it anymore so I'm not hopeful of a more moderate Pope. I left the catholic church at a young age and was thinking of coming back under John Paul, but couldn't do it when they elected Benedict. My "views" are much too extreme for the Catholic Church I guess. | |
|
BEF2008
PeaFixture
PeaNut 183,504
January 2005
Posts: 3,940
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 10:00:06 AM
Count me as impressed, too.
It's difficult for any person to admit that their age and/or their health is keeping them from doing the best job possible. How many of us have watched our parents struggle to keep things 'normal' for themselves at an advancing age?
And how many of us are still working full time at 85?
If it is something like an early Alzheimer's diagnosis, then good for him for having the courage to say he'd better get out before it gets worse. | |
|
catholicone
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 141,445
April 2004
Posts: 2,778
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 10:21:06 AM
If he does have dementia, that is quite sad.
I've never understood Catholics that don't like his conservatism. He's Catholic Catholic for Pete's sake. He's upholding the Tradition of the Catholic church. The Traditions of the Catholic church aren't up for debate. He did his job.
It seems vulturish and dumb to swoop in the day he resigns and say "Good riddance!" (I haven't seen that on here but I saw it on Facebook). | |
|
rosiekat
PeaFixture
PeaNut 216,153
July 2005
Posts: 3,809
Layouts: 27
Loc: Texas
| Posted: 2/11/2013 11:56:52 AM
I've never understood Catholics that don't like his conservatism. He's Catholic Catholic for Pete's sake. He's upholding the Tradition of the Catholic church. The Traditions of the Catholic church aren't up for debate. He did his job.
I wrote more on the other thread, so I'll keep this one short. 
I think you can be Catholic of lots of "flavors." Yes, you are correct if you say that the Church requires x,y, and z. However, we are still called to us our consciences and our minds, and even to question the things we disagree with. I think many people forget that there are differences between doctrine and tradition, too. Doctrine isn't going to change (well, at least it's utterly unlikely), but tradition can. I felt like that was where JPII was going - finding a way to start bringing the "old" Church into a modern world. Would he have made everyone happy? Of course not - even I know that there are things I think should change that won't. But I think Benedict has been a bit too much on the side of inflexibility where he could have been flexible.
Just my 2 cents. |
|
|
maddiesmum
PeaNut
PeaNut 574,034
December 2012
Posts: 366
Layouts: 0
| Posted: 2/11/2013 12:02:14 PM
Seriously? They can't fire him as Pope and there isn't a position to be promoted into so there is absolutely nothing that is detrimental to his tenure.
She didn't say anything that a lot of people aren't thinking. It may not be detrimental to his tenure, but any revelations of that nature would be detrimental to the Catholic Church.
I'm thinking this too. | |
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,177
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 2/11/2013 12:46:30 PM
This isn't really a shock. A bit surprising but the signs have been there for a while. His brother has said that the pope would like to retire and I seem to remember the pope saying something about that a year or two ago in an interview.
I do think that there must be anew diagnosis or something to have him make this move in the middle of Lent. It's not really the ideal time on the Church calender to pull all the bishops from their sees.
From the very beginning it has been pretty clear that the weight of the pallium was heavy on his shoulders and it wasn't something he would have chosen. He was looking forward to retirement before the last conclave. There is a reason they call the room where the newly elected Pope changes into his papal robes the 'room of tears'... the man is chosen as pope,... he doesn't choose to be pope.
He says it is due to failing mental health...
Not exactly. What was said int he statement was
both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me.
He has had difficulties walking lately and has had some other weakness. It may be a combination of physical and mental ailments or it might just be physical ailments. It would be wrong to state it was because of mental health and it is quite a leap to start saying he has dementia.
I didn't think they could resign
While there is provision for Papal resignation in Canon Law it has been a question that has been discussed for a while. The last time it happened was in more complicated circumstances with the Avignon antipope schism so that wasn't a really good example.
how come John Paul II didn't when he was so very sick?
I think it was a different circumstance. John Paul II had many years (many, many) as an active and vital man travelling the world before he became ill. He had accomplished a great deal and had really set up the Vatican in his image (as much as any one pope can) so he could be confident in the ability of his people to do the work of the Vatican that was necessary even as his health failed.
Benedict XVI was never expected to be a Pope for very long... he was really chosen more as a 'caretaker' Pope. Of course as often happens, it's the 'caretakers' who really shake things up (like John XXIII).
I wonder who the next Pope will be?
There are already odds out there on who the 'papabile' might be.
Are there any young cardinals?
'young' is a relative term. I believe there are a couple in their 50s.
|
 
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
ginacivey
prey-sniffing bully
PeaNut 32,477
March 2002
Posts: 24,578
Layouts: 32
Loc: Out in the boondocks
| Posted: 2/11/2013 1:56:50 PM
possible papal candidates
i am hoping it's timothy dolan
although in an interview with his mom...she doesn't want him so far away (and she said 'that doesn't make me a very good catholic mom does it)
gina | |
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,177
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 2/11/2013 2:06:53 PM
i am hoping it's timothy dolan
That would be great.... but I think there is pretty much zero chance of an American Pope. |
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
rosiekat
PeaFixture
PeaNut 216,153
July 2005
Posts: 3,809
Layouts: 27
Loc: Texas
| Posted: 2/11/2013 2:24:24 PM
although in an interview with his mom...she doesn't want him so far away (and she said 'that doesn't make me a very good catholic mom does it)
That's too funny. It would be great cocktail party conversation, though..."Yeah, we have 'x' kids, but none of them are anywhere near home anymore...yeah, Tim's almost always off doing something, since he's the Pope, y'know..."
But yeah, I think there's as much chance of ANY US pope right now as there is of, oh, married women Roman Catholic priests within the next year...
|
|
|
myboysnme
one of those "entitled" peas
PeaNut 69,081
February 2003
Posts: 6,737
Layouts: 1
| Posted: 2/11/2013 4:54:42 PM
I've never understood Catholics that don't like his conservatism.
I was born and raised in a long tradition of Catholics and baptized Catholic as an infant. I am very very liberal. I reject many current Catholic practices and points of view. I am a Catholic; it is not my fault I am also very liberal.
Do you ask Jewish people why they aren't conservative (or liberal)? One is a faith you are usually born into and raised in, the other is a world view. Would you ask a Muslim woman who wants equality for women why she is not conservative? You can still see a need for or have a desire for change and still claim the faith you were born into. |
My choice is to not take it personally - people have opinions. Particularly people here.-Peabay 12/29/11
I know this is assuming, but I'm really starting to think you are one of those "entitled" peas - Dalayney 4/2/12
profile pic courtesy of GreenEyedLady Designs at Scrap ARt Studio.
| |
|
|
obsidian
StuckOnPeas
PeaNut 300,909
March 2007
Posts: 2,154
Layouts: 1
Loc: Waikato
| Posted: 2/11/2013 5:25:26 PM
That's very strange. John Paul had advanced Parkinson's and stayed in. Very strange.
Pope Benedict was Pope Jhon Paul II's best freind he helped run the Vatican from behind the scenes. It's why he was elected Pope the church was happy with the leadership he had already showed.
I'm wondering if Benedict stepped aside to bring new blood in. It's very unusual but not unprecedented for a pope to step down. | |
|
mebarnet
I am not the Pea you are looking for
PeaNut 434,276
August 2009
Posts: 7,484
Layouts: 8
Loc: Tarpon Springs, Florida
 | Posted: 2/11/2013 6:08:21 PM
Scoobers, great minds think alike! I thought the same thing when I first read the story this morning and noticed that every story I read and heard thus far from different sources all use the same word.
So either something may be amiss or the use of that word is proper in their neck of the world. |
Mari - Loving Scrapbook Generation kits and sketches!!!
2013
2012
12x12 double LO - 267 / 7 cards
2011
12x12 207 doubles / 8x8 39 doubles / 3 6x6 Holiday Daily / 20 cards | |
|
|
RnKMom
Prima 'n' Stickles Pea
PeaNut 80,424
April 2003
Posts: 9,161
Layouts: 30
Loc: Southern California
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:22:54 PM
Asking with sincere curiosity...
Other than it hasn't happened in 600 years, what exactly is the big deal about this? He's stepping down because he's physically not able to do the job, which I see as an admirable thing to do.
He was already 78 when he became Pope. Are they supposed to literally work until they die, illness or not?
|
~Patricia~
If I have to use all this paper before I die, I'll live forever!
| |
|
|
JBeans
Tampons. Not just for Xmas ornaments anymore.
PeaNut 200,953
April 2005
Posts: 8,211
Layouts: 157
Loc: Between Diaperland and Snotsville
| Posted: 2/11/2013 7:42:21 PM
Asking with sincere curiosity...
Other than it hasn't happened in 600 years, what exactly is the big deal about this? He's stepping down because he's physically not able to do the job, which I see as an admirable thing to do.
He was already 78 when he became Pope. Are they supposed to literally work until they die, illness or not?
Because the last time this occurred, it caused the Western Schism . |
Well Peas, I believe this thread has gone Thrusday.
"The Pot has not just met the Kettle, they are getting jiggy on the top of the stove." -Lanus | |
|
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,177
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 2/12/2013 11:54:11 AM
Because the last time this occurred, it caused the Western Schism .
Actually, the last time this happened it was more to heal the Western Schism. There was an agreement that all (there were three in Avignon, Rome and Pisa) of the different popes would resign and then one Pope would be elected as a unifying pope.
Benedict XVI has been almost signaling this was on his mind with his increasing public devotion to Saint Celestine V. Celestine V was a Pope who resigned in 1294.
Benedict XVI has made a couple of special trips to venerate relics of Celestine and once to Celestine's tomb... where the Pope left his own pallium on the tomb (not really subtle with that one - we should have seen this coming).
|
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
JBeans
Tampons. Not just for Xmas ornaments anymore.
PeaNut 200,953
April 2005
Posts: 8,211
Layouts: 157
Loc: Between Diaperland and Snotsville
| Posted: 2/12/2013 12:22:36 PM
Because the last time this occurred, it caused the Western Schism .
Actually, the last time this happened it was more to heal the Western Schism. There was an agreement that all (there were three in Avignon, Rome and Pisa) of the different popes would resign and then one Pope would be elected as a unifying pope.
Benedict XVI has been almost signaling this was on his mind with his increasing public devotion to Saint Celestine V. Celestine V was a Pope who resigned in 1294.
Benedict XVI has made a couple of special trips to venerate relics of Celestine and once to Celestine's tomb... where the Pope left his own pallium on the tomb (not really subtle with that one - we should have seen this coming).
Thank you. I was being lazy when I posted. But my point was resignation is kind of a big deal. |
Well Peas, I believe this thread has gone Thrusday.
"The Pot has not just met the Kettle, they are getting jiggy on the top of the stove." -Lanus | |
|
|
valincal
Comfortably numb.
PeaNut 227,939
October 2005
Posts: 13,599
Layouts: 5
Loc: Southern Alberta
| Posted: 2/12/2013 12:31:02 PM
Other than it hasn't happened in 600 years, what exactly is the big deal about this? He's stepping down because he's physically not able to do the job, which I see as an admirable thing to do.
He was already 78 when he became Pope. Are they supposed to literally work until they die, illness or not?
Well I can't imagine that every pope in the last 600 years was healthy up until their death.
I wonder who wrote the pope's statement? Surely these old guys are surrounded by other guys who are actually guiding the decisions... |
|
|
IScrapCrap
PeaAddict
PeaNut 570,639
October 2012
Posts: 1,065
Layouts: 0
Loc: pea formerly known as GIPfunny
| Posted: 2/12/2013 12:51:00 PM
I commend him for stepping down. I think it's sad when men are way past their prime in religious organizations and they stay way too long. I feel so bad for their families. All that time lost in the last days of their lives.
I wish more religious leaders would consider the future of the organization. I think it would be smart for the Catholic church to have a younger Pope who can relate to the members. The church needs to retain membership. Like with most churches, the numbers are decreasing dramatically. | |
|
mapchic
Top Tier Pea
PeaNut 31,157
February 2002
Posts: 12,177
Layouts: 55
Loc: Chicagoland
| Posted: 2/12/2013 1:47:09 PM
my point was resignation is kind of a big deal.
Agreed! It's kind of a huge deal! I actually think that in some ways the example he sets with this resignation and the importance of healthy active Popes may be the biggest imprint he leaves on the Church allowing other ill popes this 'out'.
I wonder who wrote the pope's statement? Surely these old guys are surrounded by other guys who are actually guiding the decisions...
I think that being surrounded by others making decisions in his name is some of what he was trying to avoid.
In many ways Pope Benedict XVI was that 'guy actually guiding the decision' as Cardinal Ratzinger while Pope John Paul II's health failed. Benedict saw first hand what happens int he Vatican when the Pope is incapacitated by ill health and he doesn't want to have that happen again because of him.
I believe that he wrote this himself. There were no rumors (and the Vatican is ridiculous rumor mill) and no leaks (and that place leaks like a sieve). The announcement was a shock not only to the cardinals who were int he room for a routine meeting but also to the Vatican officials who were present. His closest aides said they were incredulous and taken completely by surprise. As I said above he has hinted in his actions that he was thinking of it... but nobody would expect the Pope to resign.
I think it would be smart for the Catholic church to have a younger Pope who can relate to the members. The church needs to retain membership. Like with most churches, the numbers are decreasing dramatically.
The Pope is never really going to be 'young' because they are more or less always chosen from the college of Cardinals. With a billion Catholics worldwide I think the idea that the Pope should somehow 'relate' to the members is not really a reasonable expectation.
While membership in the Catholic Church is decreasing in Europe and North America that is not really the case worldwide. The growth in the Church is in Africa and Asia and I wouldn't be surprised if the next pope comes from the 3rd world.
|
"When someone asks you 'think about what Jesus would do', remember that a valid option is to freak out and turn over tables" -- Unknown
“I am a Roman Catholic - the one true faith, (the Microsoft of Christianity) and I know Roman Catholicism is the one true faith because Roman Catholicism tells me it’s the one true faith... And if you remember from earlier in this sentence Roman Catholicism is the one true faith – so how could it be wrong?” ~ Stephen Colbert ‘The Word’ 11-28-06
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit | |
|
|
