Help - Grandson admitted to psych ward ! Update at end of thread

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Posted 2/21/2013 by Quinlove in NSBR Board
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scrappintoee
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:38:47 PM
Very sorry to hear all of this, I'd be upset to learn an 11-year-old that I loved was suicidal, too. Prayers and (( hugs )).

Legacy Girl
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:40:51 PM
Yes, this is about the well-being of OP's DGS. Period. To say that the OP is making it "all about her" because she thinks her DD fell short in not seeking help the FIRST time DGS attempted suicide seems a bit ridiculous to me.

If the DD were a Pea and told us her 12-year-old son had attempted suicide and she did nothing in response, I guarantee you we would all jump on the great Pea bandwagon and crucify her. The DD appears to have shown a significant lack of judgment. I'm just thankful her son is still alive and the family will receive counseling. They, like anyone else in this situation, obviously need someone to come alongside them and help them walk through this traumatic time.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 12:04:25 AM
Thank you for being a voice of reason. Naturally, this is very disturbing to me what dgs is going through and has been dealing with - without my knowledge.

The pea that stated that this is a very critical time in his life, that goes without saying...but - how exactly am I supposed to act when I see him / talk with him ? Of course, I would not *freak out* ... but, is there something I should specifically do or not do ? Who guides me ?

This is exactly why I am posting today. Hoping that in this vast community that someone can give me some postitive feedback... and prayers, God knows we need prayers right now.





~~ Marianne ~~


enjoytotheend
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Posted: 2/22/2013 12:11:34 AM
You definitely have my prayers. This is a hard one I know. I would let him talk about it and bring it up to you. I wouldn't address it until/if he is ready to. Try not to treat him any differently than you would before. I know easier said than done. But he is going to be dealing with a lot of emotions. And do whatever you can to keep the peace between you and EVERYONE involved.

PennyPaws
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 2/22/2013 12:56:10 AM

how exactly am I supposed to act when I see him / talk with him ? Of course, I would not *freak out* ... but, is there something I should specifically do or not do ? Who guides me ?


I think the doctors and counsellors working with him/the family will guide you with that... They know this is a scary and new and very difficult situation - they won't expect you to automatically know what to do... Ask them lots of questions - take complete advantage of being able to talk to them and any resources they offer...


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I-95
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Posted: 2/22/2013 1:07:56 AM
I would just treat him like you normally would. If he doesn't bring it up about the best you can do is say 'Listen DGS, I know you've been through a rough patch these last couple of weeks. If you feel like you want to tell me about it, I'm here to listen. If you don't, that's OK too, it doesn't change how much I love you'.

If he says no, and he probably will initially, just babble on about other stuff...baseball, the weather, your cat, whatever. If you want to try it again, maybe ask something non-threatening like 'how was the food at the place you were at?' Or 'did you like the nurses?' Were there any real pr etty ones? Eventually he might offer a comment or two and from there you just have to wing it...but no judgment, no commentary on his parents, no 'well, you should have done...' Just 'uh huh', and 'how did you feel about that?'

Play it by ear and you'll be fine.

GroovyPea
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Posted: 2/22/2013 5:56:48 AM
I'm sorry. I don't have any words of wisdom - just wanted to offer prayers for your DGS and his family. I have a 13 year old and can't imagine going through anything like this. Big (((hugs))) to you.


Steph

Jodi_S
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Posted: 2/22/2013 6:39:33 AM
I can "hear" how concerned and worried you are about your grandson in your posts and how much you love him. ((hugs)) to you.

Your post touched my heart as it was my worst fear for my son last year when he was getting bullied. He, too, is very close to his grandparents.

You ask how you should be now with him... I would just open your arms to him and love him. Tell him. Tell him you love every piece of him. Reassure him. He is a child and his thought processes are different than that of an adult. His confidence has been beaten down by being bullied. Since he's a child, he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions. Let him know you're there for him, that he can always talk to you. Again reassure and just love him to pieces.

I'm so glad he's getting counselling. It will help him deal with his emotions and help build up his confidence. It will also help with your daughter too, being his Mom. I can only imagine how distraught she is through all of this.


**********************************************************

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 7:11:06 AM
Thank you for all the advice and kind words. I am off to work today, that's a good thing. I need a little break from obsessing about him.

My emotions are beginning to be all over the place too... thanks again.




~~ Marianne ~~


sss
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Posted: 2/22/2013 3:59:43 PM
Hi,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. Just for what it's worth, I am a Masters prepared Social Worker...Angry and Immature are not diagnoses. He may have presented to the staff as such and so they recorded his mood and/or affect or something like that but I am not sure why it is listed as part of his diagnosis. Psychosis yes, Depression, yes but just know I don't know who threw in angry and immature but there is no such diagnosis in the DSM (the diagnostic manual mental health professionals use).
Sending good thoughts to your family.
sss

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 4:40:18 PM
Thanks SSS... Actually, I thought depression is a term used when there is no real basis for someone being depressed... and, he has lots of reasons to be depressed... lack of friends, being bullied, absent father in the home though, etc.

As far as the psychosis goes... that is the one that worries me, alot... I am very concerned about his receiving medication for that... but, of course, I have no say...

P.S. When my dd called yesterday, she seemed very shocked when I replied that - yes, I am sure he does like being there, in the hospital. Ever since he broke his wrists, he wished that he could go back to the hospital because he got alot of attention there... She had no idea that he felt like that...




~~ Marianne ~~


angela1422
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Posted: 2/22/2013 4:44:53 PM
You do realize that depression is a MEDICAL diagnosis? That it is often due to chemical imbalances in the brain?

Your "no real reason to be depressed" statement sounds like telling diabetics they have no real reason to regulate their sugar.




"Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command!"



Sometimes I wonder if God made stupid people purely for the entertainment of the rest of us.

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 5:01:35 PM
Yes, I do know that. I think he has a hundred reasons to be depressed... being bullied at school and home are top on the list... when this is not happening and everything is going good in his life -- he is not depressed, he is a happy go lucky normal kid... If that was the case - did the medical condition just go away ?

I think, understandably, he is upset and angry... but depression - I seriously do not think so.




~~ Marianne ~~


Live4Crafts
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Posted: 2/22/2013 5:11:05 PM
As the mother of a child who has suffered depression since a very early age, I'd recommend you start by spending time on the internet researching depression in children. It is VERY real.

My oldest DS was 8 when he was suicidal. He was being bullied horrifically at school, and was afraid to tell. His behavior had changed at home, and I had noticed and put him in counseling, but one night he "snapped" for lack of a better word. For some perspective, I'm a counselor. I have a Master's degree in psychology and work with kids and adults with problems, but I didn't think MY son could be that depressed. I thought I was on top of things enough. I finally had him hospitalized when he tore up his room and put his suicide note in writing on his desk...literally writing it ON the desk (yes, I had to destroy the desk after that..I couldn't see it anymore).

DS spent two years on medication and in therapy. Fast forward to today. He'll be 13 in 2 weeks, and is doing very well. He has had to have what I call "boosters" on his therapy, talking with a counselor a couple of times (depression and puberty do NOT go well together). There is a long history of family depression, so I think the bullying did aggravate something that was already a possibility. Family hugged him tight, and we loved him, but we also did not go overboard. He still had household rules and expectations.

There are some great websites out there that have information about depression in children. Try to spend some time looking at ways that you can understand his condition rather than judge him for it. Depression is real, even if it is the result of triggers in his life (bullying or bad home life, whatever) or chemical imbalance.

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 5:38:24 PM
Thank you for replying. I am trying to be rational about something that is extremely upsetting to me and something I know nothing about. So thank you for the information.

I must have my information wrong. All these years (62) I have been under the impression that the term - clinical depression - is about a chemical imbalance thing that has nothing at all to do with your daily life. You can seem to everyone else that you have everything going for you but because of your medical condition (depression) you are depressed and must take medicatioin to feel happy about stuff in your life that should be making you happy. Hopefully you can follow me on this here... that I am explaining myself and how I thought depression was.

But - using bullying for an example - you are being bullied every day, every where... that might make you feel depressed about your life. Although, technically and medically, you are not suffering from the true medical defintion of depression. Your blood work does not show this to be a chemical imbalance.

My only info so far has been the brief call from dd yesterday. And, as I have stated numerously, I only wish that my dgs had two loving and capable parents. I would not be as concerned.





~~ Marianne ~~


sss
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Posted: 2/22/2013 5:39:34 PM
Depression is very real and not just some random diagnoses assigned to anyone. It is medical and it sounds to me like depression may run in your family (just like having brown hair or buck teeth might, no different). Also, to make matters worse, I think I'd be pretty depressed and anxious if I was constantly being bullied at school. This is not something to take lightly. I agree with other posters who have suggested you do some research just to educate yourself a little. Finally, medication, though it sounds scary is very probably the best thing that could happen for your grandson to treat psychosis. Left untreated, psychosis can be very dangerous both to your grandson and everyone around him. People with psychosis who are treated with the right "cocktail" can do very well but they have to keep taking their meds as directed by a doctor. Please know though that just like any other medical condition, his doctors may have to try a few things before they get the right combination and/or doses of meds for him so don't assume right away that the diagnosis he was given was wrong or the meds are ALL bad...it's a tough bumpy road but if he has good docs, they'll get it right as soon as they can. Also, because of his age and mental state, I would not say word one to him about your feelings about the meds at any point in his treatment. If you have concerns/questions about the meds I would direct them to your DD and/or do your own research on the meds. Just know that the meds can work wonders and will probably be important tools in his recovery.

Gynergy
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Posted: 2/22/2013 6:52:37 PM
The way it has been explained to me (and makes sense to a non-scientist), is that genetics/family history of mental health issues "loads the gun" and environmental stressors (bullying, trauma, grief/loss, etc.) "pulls the trigger."

Everyone with genetics/family history of mental health issues doesn't develop symptoms ... there appears to be both "nature" and "nurture" in play.

A helpful website for reputable information (free) about mental illness is www.nami.org

You have to be sure about sources before you can trust what you find online, as there are quacks and anti-psychiatry people with webpages too


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Quinlove
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Posted: 2/22/2013 7:04:03 PM
Thank you for replying. I can not continue a heated discussion about my darling grandson's mental health any longer.

If anyone is truly concerned about him, please pray for his family. Thank you so much.




~~ Marianne ~~


Aggiemom92
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Posted: 2/22/2013 7:17:40 PM
Ok, I think what you've said about thinking clinical depression meant you were depressed for no reason makes sense. I understand how you'd think he didn't have a medical problem because a typical person probably WOULD be depressed in his situation. I can see how you'd think that. Actually, although I know that's not right, it's a little puzzling to me as well.

Maybe informing yourself about what his diagnosis really means would help you. I find the better I understand a situation, the less stressed I feel. Not less worried about it, but it's a less . . . hysterical? worry. I'm not calling you hysterical--just trying to find a way to describe the crazy worry you feel when you don't understand something.


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Christine58
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Posted: 2/22/2013 7:24:27 PM


I must have my information wrong. All these years (62) I have been under the impression that the term - clinical depression - is about a chemical imbalance thing that has nothing at all to do with your daily life. You can seem to everyone else that you have everything going for you but because of your medical condition (depression) you are depressed and must take medicatioin to feel happy about stuff in your life that should be making you happy. Hopefully you can follow me on this here... that I am explaining myself and how I thought depression was.

But - using bullying for an example - you are being bullied every day, every where... that might make you feel depressed about your life. Although, technically and medically, you are not suffering from the true medical defintion of depression. Your blood work does not show this to be a chemical imbalance.


Depression issues/chemical imbalance WON'T show up in blood work. You need to educate yourself about depression. Seriously.

You know NOT what you're speaking of. Listen to the teachers and social workers and parents here that do KNOW....Depression expresses itself in many different ways. I've worked with kids who were quiet and withdrawn and DEPRESSED....I've taught others who were at the other end of the quiet spectrum....they also were depressed.

Let the professionals help him..and as far as what you can do if and when you see him??? All you need to do is tell him you LOVE and SUPPORT him.






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Posted: 2/22/2013 8:12:51 PM

If you treat this incident as a big deal and freak out over it, you will hurt your grandson in ways that you don't even realize. The shame and guilt will cause him so much damage, especially if you two are as close as you have said.

I HATE lecturing people, truly. But this is such a critical and fragile time for him. Truthfully, no matter how much help he is getting now, your reaction could lead to another suicide attempt.

I know that is very inflammatory, but I firmly believe it. No, you wouldn't be the CAUSE, but he doesn't have the rationality to think logically. Your opinion probably means the most to him.




I agree with Tiffany. I am so sorry your dear grandchild is going through this very scary thing.

BUT, your posts reflect a stunning lack of insight. I would move away from my ILs if they behaved as you are here on this message board. Educate yourself. Be open and non-judgemental with your dgs AND your dd, and you will more welcomed into their lives and perhaps at the hospital. Ask your dd what you can do FOR her to help.

I can't imagine how difficult this situation is, how scary it is, but it is NOT about you.

PT for your dgs.


----Theresa

tgp0014
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Posted: 2/22/2013 8:31:53 PM

If he doesn't bring it up about the best you can do is say 'Listen DGS, I know you've been through a rough patch these last couple of weeks. If you feel like you want to tell me about it, I'm here to listen. If you don't, that's OK too, it doesn't change how much I love you'.


I was going to recommend you say something similar to this.

You asked how to discuss this event with your grandson.

I personally think that the best thing to do is to hit it head on; I wouldn't even wait for him to bring it up at all. That puts way too much pressure on him. Let's remember that he is twelve.

Just bring it up in a very matter-of-fact way. Don't be timid. The more timid you are about the subject, the more ashamed he will probably feel. He needs to feel like there is NOTHING for him to be ashamed of.

Good luck to you. I'm glad you are seeking out this information.


Tiffany

tgp0014
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Posted: 2/22/2013 8:35:36 PM

Said better than I could have... Thank you for sharing that side of things...


Thanks. I wondered if I would get flamed for being so stern. Like I said, I hate lecturing people or coming across as a know-it-all.

But when it comes to stuff like this, the safety of this child is more important than pussyfooting around a message board.

Depression is so misunderstood, especially when it comes to young teens. The very slightest thing can lead to tragedy.


Tiffany

ScrapperandStamper
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Posted: 2/22/2013 10:38:59 PM
You definitely need to educate yourself on mental illness - nami is probably going to be your most reliable source - I will tell you this if you were my child's grandparent, I would keep you as far away as possible - you would not see him period.I have three children with mental illness (bio children) two are bipolar and one has suffered from depression including THREE suicide attempts in fifth grade. It sucks as a parent and is extremely hard and to try to heal your child with medication to get them to a "normal" state with you in the background giving your uneducated opinion is FAR MORE DAMAGING THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE!!! Let the parent parent the child with the professionals and keep your mouth shut. You DO NOT know what is in the best interest of this child. Your opinions and ignorance prove this.

Artbabe
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Posted: 2/22/2013 10:56:57 PM

This is unthinkable for me... it breaks my heart and I think that my dd or her husband should have done SOMETHING about it... but they obviously did not... I think it would be extreme bad parenting to ignore this... but - I did not voice this to my dd when she told me about it today -- I am just telling you, because I started this thread and wanted to tell you the whole story as I now know it.


I tried to slit my wrists when I was 16. I had good parents. I blindsided them when I did it. They were not neglectful. They did not ignore my pain. I was a very private person- they just didn't know.

So stop blaming your dd and her husband. If I knew that is what you thought of me then there would be no way I'd let you near my kid.

I don't doubt that you love this child very much but you need to get a grip. You obviously don't know much about depression, so learning about it would be a really good start. A couple of people have already pointed out some errors in your knowledge and tried to correct them, so I won't go there.

You also need to stop assigning blame.


Tracy

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Stephanie in TX
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Posted: 2/23/2013 1:05:15 AM
I'm praying for your grandson - and for you! I can't imagine how you must be feeling, worried sick for your dear grandson! And I imagine that he is feeling frightened.
I've never had any experience with that dept at Cooks, we've had excellent care in their Endocrinology dept. and when my youngest was admitted with a head injury.



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justalittletike
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Posted: 2/23/2013 6:16:24 AM
Sometimes people make choices that are not always what you think they should do. They are just doing what they know to do to survive those moments.

Some people choose to ignore major incidences because their minds just can't wrap around the reality of what has truly happened. Everyone is different and you are on her reality not yours. It probably took her a while to realize her baby had issues. I mean that is a huge realization and punch to the gut for any mother.

As long as she is addressing your DGS then be on team DGS and be glad she isn't trying to shove his "problems" under a rug.


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Posted: 2/23/2013 6:40:39 AM
Oh man--I'm so sorry to hear about your grandson. My mom has 3 grandsons between me and my sister and I know if one of them were in the hospital for any reason, she'd be a complete mess. I can't even imagine all the other stuff combined.

I truly hope he feels better soon, gets great treatment and/or medication that helps him, and that he gets to see you real soon.


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lindywholoveskids
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Posted: 2/23/2013 6:48:00 AM
This thread is good for me to read.
When our young adult niece was hospitalized ( twice) for mental illness, we were able to talk to her after her treatment looked like it was fairly successful.
We were supportive of her parents. It's awful.
We read a lot about her illness and talked to others who knew about it.

She's doing ok now, but you never know if it will get worse again.

Support for the parents and step parents was something we did with all the love in our hearts we had.

Perhaps the experience from the peas who have been there/ are there will help you see that you need to inform yourself and get help. No one is perfect. We as parents and grandparents can be open to listening.

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/23/2013 11:18:55 AM
My dd called... dgs is on low doses of Prozac and Risperdal. If any of you have any knowledge of either of these meds, could you please enlighten me.

He is going to be at the hospital for a few more days. Then he will attend school and counseling there weekdays 8 - 3. Not sure how long that will be. Not the whole school year though.




~~ Marianne ~~


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Posted: 2/23/2013 11:52:49 AM

it breaks my heart and I think that my dd or her husband should have done SOMETHING about it... but they obviously did not... I think it would be extreme bad parenting to ignore this.
You seem very confident that you know everything that the parents have and have not done, when this incident seems to have demonstrated that they don't tell you everything. For example, that there were prior attempts.

They shared with you the doctor's musings - not really a diagnosis - and you immediately reject to that. Even though a trained doctor who examined your son sees these things. And you react dramatically.

Young children can be suicidal. I think my dd was in first grade - maybe - when we first had her treated. And I can tell you, I did not detail everything I was doing for her, or how she struggled, to all of her grandparents.

You've gotten a lot of feedback here. What I find most telling is that the things you accuse others of, you also seem to demonstrate. I hope you take this time to step back and really think about your interactions with this family and how you can best serve your grandson.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

peano
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Posted: 2/23/2013 11:54:18 AM
Prozac is an antidepressant that acts on serotonin. Risperdal is an anti-psychotic medication.


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I-95
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Posted: 2/23/2013 1:13:40 PM
With regard to the meds, specifically Risperdal. Please Google this drug, and its side effects.

It will list tardive dyskinesia as one of the 'rare' side effects. It is NOT a rare side effect. I have known a number of children who have taken it, and had no issues at all, but I know a whole lot more kids who have experienced this side effect.

Please know that this specific side effect of Risperdal is PERMANENT. If you, or your DD sees any signs of tardive dyskinesia (involuntary body movements, usually the head or lower part of the face, sometimes called facial tics) tell the doctor immediately. If it is notice early enough and the drug stopped, the side effect *may* go away, otherwise it is generally considered to be permanent, whether the drug is stopped, or not.

My son was on this drug for 2 months, and unfortunately now has permanent tardive dyskinesia.

One of the other unpleasant, but reversible side effects, is weight gain. My DS put on 30lbs in a matter of 2 months. Almost everyone on this drug gains weight, a lot of it.

Prozac is a fairly mild antidepressant. Risperdal is a fairly strong anti-psychotic. Research them, please.

Quinlove
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Posted: 2/23/2013 1:21:53 PM
This thread has been very helpful to me. I try not to get involved in all the family dynamics over there, truly I do... and, this thread has helped me to see this situation from a daughter's eyes.

As a grandmother, surely you must know how much I am concerned about my poor dgs mental health. I have not done anything other than post this thread and talk with a couple close friends (and my dd, ds). You have given me some helpful tools in dealing with all of this and for that I am very thankful.

I understand that I must let the medical people who are responsible for him getting better do their job and I am glad that he is there receiving the necessary care.

When I do get to see him or talk with him, I am just worried now about saying the appropriate thing. thanks so much for me being able to see this and myself differently.




~~ Marianne ~~


Quinlove
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Posted: 2/23/2013 1:27:30 PM
Thank you so much 95 for that information. When I did research it I saw that weight gain thing and thought that if my dgs started working out some, that maybe the weight would go in the right places. He is very slight. So that could possibly be a good thing... but the nervous tic part... I will defintely calmly tell dd to watch for that...

I can't thank you enough for your kind words on this thread.




~~ Marianne ~~


janet r
AncestralPea

PeaNut 22,327
October 2001
Posts: 4,278
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Posted: 2/23/2013 1:42:09 PM
I am praying for your grandson and you and your family.

lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 168,696
September 2004
Posts: 8,526
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Loc: Northern California

Posted: 2/23/2013 1:55:42 PM
you might not want this advice, but you need help yourself in dealing with this.
Have you considered a Twelve Step group to do with Co Dependency?
Your dear grandson will be learning to cope with his illness in his program.
Now, why not take this opportunity to learn about your self and how you can help your self?.

Sorry if you take this other than the way it's intended.

My life experience is that I learned to take care of everyone but myself, until I changed that. It's still hard sometimes. I wish I had learned this a lot earlier.

There are things you cannot change, and can accept.
May you have the Courage to change the things you can.

enjoytotheend
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 359,333
January 2008
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Posted: 2/23/2013 2:06:02 PM
I have struggled with situational depression not chemical depression. It is very real. He sounds like he would fall under that category. I do hope they are careful if they put him on meds. I know you love him and I know it's hard. But you have no control over this right now. He does sound very much depressed. For the record no one knew I was depressed at that time in my life. Even though I was. I got really good at putting a smile on my face. In fact most people would say that I was one of the happiest people they knew.

Quinlove
PeaAddict

PeaNut 30,457
February 2002
Posts: 1,084
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Loc: Texas

Posted: 2/23/2013 2:12:55 PM
Thanks for replying. Yes, I do feel like it would be very helpful for me to speak to someone about this family crisis. I broght that up to my dd today, hoping that I could be part of the healing process. But she said no.

I will look into some other options this week.




~~ Marianne ~~


ScrapWench*
Seems a pity to miss such a good pudding.

PeaNut 247,139
February 2006
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Loc: Spokane, WA

Posted: 2/23/2013 2:16:31 PM

It will list tardive dyskinesia as one of the 'rare' side effects. It is NOT a rare side effect. I have known a number of children who have taken it, and had no issues at all, but I know a whole lot more kids who have experienced this side effect.


I agree with this, risperidone is not my favorite med for kids, especially with the TD and the weight gain. But children and psych meds are a very difficult combo-many drugs are not approved for use in children but many children have some very serious psych issues. It is a catch 22, and not something I would wish on my worst enemy.

Good luck to you and your dgs.


----Theresa

Quinlove
PeaAddict

PeaNut 30,457
February 2002
Posts: 1,084
Layouts: 2
Loc: Texas

Posted: 2/23/2013 2:24:46 PM
Thank you for validating my concerns. Ever since they said he had mild psychosis, I had a feeling that it may not turn out that good for him in the long run... short term, yes. But it is long term that I am concerned about. But, sadly there is nothing I can do.







~~ Marianne ~~


lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 168,696
September 2004
Posts: 8,526
Layouts: 0
Loc: Northern California

Posted: 2/23/2013 2:53:32 PM
I'm glad you have thought of counseling.
You can go for yourself. It's a wonderful thing,
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