Boys Scouts, my convictions and my Mom - much needed clarification added!!

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Posted 4/3/2013 by HeyAnne in NSBR Board
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busypea
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Posted: 4/4/2013 11:50:48 AM

I think the time to make a stand for your convictions was before you let him join in the first place. I'm curious as to why it's an issue *now*.

Now he is 13 and has already invested his time and effort. I think a this point it should be up to him.

I agree with this. I personally never would have let him join, but that horse is already out of the barn. I would not force him to quit.

I would, however, be sure he knows why you have issues with the organization. Hopefully he will decide on his own that he does not want to be affiliated with a discriminatory group like the BSA.

Signed,
The sister of a gay Eagle Scout who regrets his affiliation with the BSA.

*Paget*
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Posted: 4/4/2013 12:20:56 PM
I see why people are confused because I feel her statement could really being going either way. My guess is that she means she does not agree with discriminating against gays --that they should be let in.

However, this thread seems to be focusing on what exactly she meant and I don't think that is the point. I think the point do you make your child quit an organization if do don't agree with its values? It's a tough call and depends on different circumstances. IMO, since the ds is already involved and he is an older child (compared to 6 years old for example), I think she should discuss it with him and give him the choice at this point. If he had never begun in the first place, I think mom retains veto rights to join! And OPs mom gets no vote.

nicolequinn
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Posted: 4/4/2013 1:07:59 PM
Be a positive change from within the organization.




wholarmor
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Posted: 4/4/2013 1:19:56 PM

I attributed it to a erroneous typing of her meaning to say " ... on [not] allowing Gays into the program."



That's how I saw it, too. I wonder if the OP will be back.

My son is in Cub Scouts, and I plan on putting my youngest in next year. I'm a den leader. I am also one who hopes that we can change minds from the inside.

At age 13, I would hope that you would give your son the choice with your stance made known to him. He's at the age where if he's not really interested in scouts anymore, he'll want to drop out himself. But if he's put a lot of work and effort into things and really wants to work his way to an Eagle, he could feel very resentful of you pulling him out.


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MnMommy2
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Posted: 4/4/2013 1:21:57 PM
I have a boy scout and cub scout, both husband and I are adult leaders. I do not agree with the discrimination against gay people, but I do know for a fact that there have been gay leaders and scouts in my pack as well as local area packs. Gay scouts/leaders does not mean improper conduct will happen. I believe it should be left up to the Pack to decide what they are comfortable with or the council as a whole.

If I was in the posters shoes, I would let my son/scout make the choice. He is at the Boy Scout Level and has done a lot of hard work to throw it away for another persons judgement of what is wrong or right. Let the boy choose what he wants to do based on his feelings about the program.

Scouting program is wonderful and ours does plenty for our community and the pack parents and kids are very well respected in our community.



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Posted: 4/4/2013 1:29:36 PM
With all of the talk of 'change from within' it seems like it's the economic pressure from 'without', ie corporate sponsors threatening to pull their money, that is changing the tide.


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writermom1
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Posted: 4/4/2013 1:52:31 PM
I do think that anyone who chooses to quit should communicate their reason to National. It is normal for boys to drop out in the teen years and if they don't hear your protest they may presume its just the natural drop rate.




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TinaFB
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Posted: 4/4/2013 2:33:28 PM

With all of the talk of 'change from within' it seems like it's the economic pressure from 'without', ie corporate sponsors threatening to pull their money, that is changing the tide.

Part of the strategy of the "change from within" people is to encourage corporate sponsors to withhold funds until the discriminatory policies change.

And if you want your voice heard, now is the time to do it. Many local councils are sending their own recommendations to National BSA right now. So call or email your local council with your opinion. This website has a list of local council phone numbers. Some councils have even publicly issued non-discrimination resolutions calling on National to change the policies and making it clear that their council will not comply with the policies.



Tina


Mallie
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Posted: 4/4/2013 2:39:30 PM


Part of the strategy of the "change from within" people is to encourage corporate sponsors to withhold funds until the discriminatory policies change.

How is encouraging sponsors to withhold their outside funding part of change from WITHIN?

TinaFB
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Posted: 4/4/2013 2:55:25 PM

Part of the strategy of the "change from within" people is to encourage corporate sponsors to withhold funds until the discriminatory policies change.

How is encouraging sponsors to withhold their outside funding part of change from WITHIN?

Because dedicated Scouters are encouraging anyone invested in the scouting program to do whatever they can to bring about change, whether that means writing letters, calling your council, distributing petitions, or withholding funds.



Tina


freecharlie
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Posted: 4/4/2013 3:55:05 PM

I think the time to make a stand for your convictions was before you let him join in the first place. I'm curious as to why it's an issue *now*.


Assuming that the OP is wanting gays to ba allowed to be scouts, I'd say that sometimes our opinions and ideals evolve.

Both my boys were scouts. One went through webelo and one only did Tigers. I felt that I didn't want my children to miss out and that Boy Scouts were valuable.

I am thankful that my children decided that sports were more important.

Looking back, I should have made a different decision and not allowed them to join. Honestly, I made my original decision based on my children and my family without regard to the big picture. I see it differently now.

I would be extremely embarrassed to have my children still be a part of scouts.


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Posted: 4/4/2013 4:57:54 PM
I am very proud of my Boy Scout who is doing his Eagle Project next week. The organization has been a great support for him as he has grown and become leader among his peers. I do not agree with everything but I do see all the good our troop has done in shaping the boys into strong young men.
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benem
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Posted: 4/4/2013 5:28:52 PM
Of course your personal views go into raising your child. Why wouldn't they???

That said I think he is old enough to hear your views and then be allowed to decide for himself. And to be told you won't be paying for anything to do with scouts, though you won't prevent him from being in it if he wants.


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tamhugh
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Posted: 4/4/2013 6:04:42 PM
I was very opposed to my DS joining BSA because of their policies. It was a battle in our home for several years. Finally, DH convinced me that it should be up to him and not to us. He did not move up through the lower ranks of scouting because of my opposition, starting in 8th grade. I never became very involved in the troop. I didn't join the mother's group and let them know why when I was asked. He did make Eagle and he has written letters to his council and his troop stating his opinion on allowing gays to join. One of his friends in the troop (also an Eagle) is gay.

Change can come from within by letting people involved know how you feel. It can come from welcoming all scouts. As the "old guard" changes and the leaders and the scouts come from generations that are more comfortable with homosexuality, I don't think it will be an issue. Or at least, I would like to think it won't be.

lucyg819
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Posted: 4/4/2013 7:22:48 PM
Where the heck is the OP? She is needed here!


I seriously do not understand what is confusing to the posters in this thread.

Her first line says it all:

I have a strong dislike of the Boys Scouts organization's stance on allowing Gays into the program.

She dislikes them allowing homosexuals into the program. She LIKED them keeping them out and the possibility of them now ALLOWING homosexuals IN, makes her want to pull her kid out. Her convictions are of a discriminatory variety.

YOU may not see it as confusing. I disagree and obviously many others do, too.

Since the current BSA policy is to NOT allow gays, her wording about disagreeing with their stance is a little confusing, and I do believe she is trying to say the opposite of what you think she said.

So don't be completely convinced she wants to discriminate against gay Scouts. Maybe yes, maybe no.


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KristenFNJ
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Posted: 4/4/2013 7:44:03 PM
I haven't read the replies, but I'm in the same boat... well, make mine a yacht since I not only send my boys, but I'm a den leader for ds2 and feel like I'm a hypocrite betraying all that is righteous in the world by wearing that uniform. (I signed up for this before it really hit the fan in the last couple of years) BUT, I LOVE the kids in my den and their families, we do really cool things I wouldn't think of or be able to on my own, and the same for the pack-wonderful people, I'm proud to be affiliated with them. DS2 is a brand new Boy Scout, and this saga continues... the troop is amazing, the kids are amazing, the leaders are awesome... and my son LOVES it.

So clearly, I've been enormously conflicted. After his first troop meeting he happened to ask me why I wouldn't donate to BSA (there was a presentation at the meeting), and it happened to be the same day I filled out my BSA member survey, so it was heavy on my mind. He's 11, but knows what gay means and how we feel about it (which for the record is that it's a non issue like being blue eyed or tall). So, I explained to him the BSA policy and his jaw dropped, literally. I also validated how much he loves scouting and all the fun and important experiences he gets out of it. I told him I'll always support him in this. And then I told him that the best way to react to this conflict is to live out our beliefs, and to be part of the change from the inside. Be the scout that Respects the Rights of All People like it says in the handbook. Be the scout that stands up for others when the situation arises. It won't always be easy, but I believe you can be true to yourself, true to what we believe and not have to walk away from something you love. That's pretty much it-I told him to be the change from the inside.

And I'm trying to live the same way. The truth is, if the sword appeared in front of me, I would fall on the sword for this. In a heartbeat. If faced with the situation of our own troop or den exhibiting bigotry and denying someone's rights, I would stand by that person no matter what. I'm just very cognizant of what I'd be taking down with me, which is not just my two sons, but 8 other boys in my charge. So for as strong as my feelings are, I'm not running half way across the country to fall on a sword that's not in front of me. This is really difficult, I'll tell you that. I'm trying to strike this balance between standing up for what's right, supporting my children in their passions, and a whole host of sub-plots like friendships and time/financial investments. I'm holding on to hope that the survey reveals the need for change. If not... I don't know. I honestly don't.

606slz
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Posted: 4/4/2013 7:49:07 PM
I have a 13 year old DS also. I would ask your son how he feels first.
But I agree with you Mom. I will never (have never) associate with the Boy Scouts.
Our boys never had an interest and I am glad.

Aggiemom92
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Posted: 4/4/2013 9:28:41 PM

Where the heck is the OP? She is needed here!

I seriously do not understand what is confusing to the posters in this thread.

Her first line says it all:

I have a strong dislike of the Boys Scouts organization's stance on allowing Gays into the program.

She dislikes them allowing homosexuals into the program. She LIKED them keeping them out and the possibility of them now ALLOWING homosexuals IN, makes her want to pull her kid out. Her convictions are of a discriminatory variety.

YOU may not see it as confusing. I disagree and obviously many others do, too.

Since the current BSA policy is to NOT allow gays, her wording about disagreeing with their stance is a little confusing, and I do believe she is trying to say the opposite of what you think she said.


Interesting. I assumed she meant she didn't like the discrimination against gays. But now that I read this I'm thinking the opposite. That would make more sense since she let him join at one time and NOW wants to pull him.

Regardless, my response is that at 13 this is a decision for the son to make. I'd share my feelings, but let him decide what HE wants to stand for.


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Posted: 4/4/2013 11:30:36 PM

treating others with respect and understand how that isn't ridiculously hypocritical. I



it's quite easy to treat others you don't agree with with respect. it's not hypocritical at all. If someone has to agree with someone 100% to respect them then maybe they should join scouts so they could learn how to be respectful.

Before I even had children I knew about the BSA stand on this as well as GSA stance. While they vary, I'm able to see the positive benefits each program offers to kids. It's valuable, life skills that is rarely being taught elsewhere, including the home. I've seen boy scouts administer first aid to another child while waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Instead of totally bashing something maybe we should see what's really being taught. They don't sit around gay bashing & the girl scouts don't sit around & encourage homosexuality. I doubt boy scouts would be as unkind & mean spirited to the people who speak so rudely about the scouts. Those boys would be respectful and still open the door for you.

Isn't it wonderful we live in a free country where we don't all have to agree, where there are many organizations to choose from that fit our values? I might not agree what XYZ teaches at their church organization but when that sweet neighbor kid comes to sell me their tasty treat or widget you can bet I'll support that kid. Why? because I support the KID & I care about the person.


freecharlie
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Posted: 4/4/2013 11:36:26 PM

Instead of totally bashing something maybe we should see what's really being taught. They don't sit around gay bashing & the girl scouts don't sit around & encourage homosexuality. I doubt boy scouts would be as unkind & mean spirited to the people who speak so rudely about the scouts. Those boys would be respectful and still open the door for you.


They don't have to sit around and gay bash. Excluding gays is bashing enough. You think the boy with two dads or moms or realizes that he is gay in his teens in the middle of Life or Eagle feels that the organization is kind?



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Posted: 4/5/2013 5:07:58 AM
well said, FreeCharlie

jennyap
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Posted: 4/5/2013 6:23:36 AM

I seriously do not understand what is confusing to the posters in this thread.

Her first line says it all:

I have a strong dislike of the Boys Scouts organization's stance on allowing Gays into the program.

She dislikes them allowing homosexuals into the program. She LIKED them keeping them out and the possibility of them now ALLOWING homosexuals IN, makes her want to pull her kid out. Her convictions are of a discriminatory variety.




I agreed with your first two sentences, then read your last and was like,

Because I thought it was quite clear that she has a strong dislike of their current stance. Their current stance is to NOT allow gays. Therefore she dislikes them not allowing gays in, and her convictions are of an inclusive variety.

The fact that we can read the same sentence and be equally convinced of such contradictory interpretations clearly indicates that the wording IS confusing.


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Posted: 4/5/2013 6:33:10 AM
My son is in both boy scouts and the GSA in his school. He and his fellow troop members have been discussing the issue and signed a petition to the council about overturning the national policy. According to him, the troop agrees with him and is working to make a change.

That's what working from within is all about. I don't think it's hypocritical at all. Actually, I'm proud of him.

moveablefeast
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Posted: 4/5/2013 6:41:03 AM

They don't have to sit around and gay bash. Excluding gays is bashing enough. You think the boy with two dads or moms or realizes that he is gay in his teens in the middle of Life or Eagle feels that the organization is kind?


By the time I came out in my teens, I had little inclination that any organization was particularly kind. School, church, family, you name it, it was just another group of people who, on an individual or collective level, might decide to accept or reject. I went to one of the most liberal, queer-friendly women's colleges in the country, and it was the same.

Whether it's right or it's wrong, a boy who comes out in his teens is not going to face anything different with the Boy Scouts than he is going to face at any point along his future path.

Along the way I have encountered a number of people with the grace to say, I'm not really ready to accept this but I love you and accept you anyway. It used to piss me off to no end when people would say they "disagreed with my lifestyle", as if what I chose to do with my life had anything to do with them at all. But if I am going to respect people's differences the way I expect people to respect mine, then I have to make some room for that.

What I'm really getting at is that I do believe in making safe spaces for people who are queer or questioning, but I don't expect the whole world to adapt to suit me. Even if the Boy Scouts allowed gay leaders or scouts, it's still an organization made up of people - who may or may not accept that, or accept them. This is real life. It's a hard lesson to learn, but we all have to learn it in one way or another.

scrappower
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Posted: 4/5/2013 8:07:07 AM

What I'm really getting at is that I do believe in making safe spaces for people who are queer or questioning, but I don't expect the whole world to adapt to suit me. Even if the Boy Scouts allowed gay leaders or scouts, it's still an organization made up of people - who may or may not accept that, or accept them. This is real life. It's a hard lesson to learn, but we all have to learn it in one way or another.


True, but they are taking away ranks from boy because they are gay. One boy was denied his Eagle Scout because they said being gay makes him ineligible, so it is a bit more than just not accepting that he is gay. It is outright discrimination.



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Posted: 4/5/2013 8:29:13 AM
Sorry that I haven't been back to this thread - very busy with school and after school activities.

My son joined BS long before I knew about their policies on banning gay scouts from joining.

Probably I would have still let him join if I did know because at that time of my life I was of a different mindset - I've been through a lot in the years since he joined.

I have two gay couples in my life now that have come to be important parts of my life. A male couple and a female couple. I see the pain they go through in their lives, how much discrimination hurts them and unfair it is that they are not treated like any other human being and do not have the same rights.

I have always been the type of person to stand up for my convictions. I know someone who stopped buying MME products because they designed a die cut that had a kid hunter holding a gun. I would never eat at a Chik Fil a - however you spell it, after it came out about their anti gay stance.

About the importance of my Mom in this situation. She is my Mom first and foremost and always look to her for support or advice. I am in the middle of a messy and dangerous separation from my spouse - my Mom is my sole support through all of the drama. My Mom already thinks I am some sorta hippy liberal and have wacky stances on issues and we have learned how to keep our relationship close and strong by agreeing to disagree in certain areas, say like politics and religion.

She wants me to go back to church and get my daughter into religion so she can make her communion. I feel like a hypocrite being inside a church and going through the motions just so my Mom can see her in a communion dress. We have discussed it several times and I am not changing my mind and she has to let it go - although because she is a Mom, will occasionally bring it up and I have learned to just listen and not get upset. FYI my Mom goes to church but doesnt know if she believes - it's more a cultural thing being raised Roman Catholic.


THis boy scout issue is new and we discussed it on Easter sunday while driving to my sister's.

I'm going to go back and read the rest of the replies now.


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HeyAnne
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Posted: 4/5/2013 8:45:49 AM
I have talked about this with my son. He was never that motivated to go to the weekly meetings and it has always been an argument to get him in uniform and out the door.

Once he is there, I know he enjoys himself.

Over the last few years my marriage started to crumble and there was so much stress and drama in my kids lives. I wasn't even thinking about the BSA stance on gay scouting - I had bigger fish to fry as it were.

My son stopped wanting to go on the monthly camping trips and refused to go to summer camp last year after we had paid for it. He gave me the reason that he didnt want to be away from his family for so long.


I don't want to put all my private matters on the internet but will say that in Feb of this year I stopped taking him to scouts because of the situation with his Dad. I didn't think he would be safe while he was out of my sight for so long and I didn't want to alert the scout adults in charge because frankly I don't want to tell them and word get out and gossiped about.

My son has a personality just like me - he has strong convictions about the government and money and banking and the environment. Stronger than mine even. He doesnt believe in God, he believes in science and is a very literal person.

I told him that I would take him if really wanted to stay in and he is thinking about it and we discussed it again this week. It is still on the table.


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HeyAnne
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Posted: 4/5/2013 8:58:13 AM
I stopped reading the responses after this:


I seriously do not understand what is confusing to the posters in this thread.

Her first line says it all:

I have a strong dislike of the Boys Scouts organization's stance on allowing Gays into the program.


She dislikes them allowing homosexuals into the program. She LIKED them keeping them out and the possibility of them now ALLOWING homosexuals IN, makes her want to pull her kid out. Her convictions are of a discriminatory variety.





I am sorry that I wasnt more clear in my OP. I am against discrimination of all kinds - based on race, creed, color, religion and sexual identity.

I do not want to judge anyone on whatever posts came after that one because I understand that I was not clear.

Maybe now that you know where I stand (Pro allowing everyone into scouting) and Gay rights - your comments might change.


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Dalai Mama
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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:09:54 AM
HeyAnne - thanks for coming back and explaining further. If your son were really into Scouting, I would suggest leaving him in until May and seeing how the vote goes. I'm not confident that they will overturn their policy but stranger things have happened.

But, given that it's a fight to get him to go anyway, I would say pull him out.


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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:10:06 AM
If your son doesn't like the events and doesn't believe in god, then I truly don't see the difficulty in having him quit the Boy Scouts.



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Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:13:33 AM
Thanks for coming back and clearing things up OP. I'm glad that you're involving your 13 year old son, I think that's important. As you're currently going through a tough time in your marriage, I personally would factor that into my decision. Do you have a robust support system to help him through this difficult time. There are of course many ways to have positive male role models in your life, but if your son is lacking that at home and taking away scouts would exacerbate that situation, it's something I would consider.

Good luck.


HeyAnne
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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:20:11 AM
Darcy that is a really really good point. Something to ponder for sure.


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biochemipea
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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:20:12 AM
I figured from your first post that you were opposed to the discrimination of gay Scouters by the BSA organization.

To all of those that are poo-pooing the OP for not having maintained her stance from the start, I personally admire that people change and re-think their position on things. I'm glad people like the OP are strong and open-minded enough to reconsider their beliefs once they have new knowledge about the details and implications. Good for you, Anne, for thinking about this!

I hope you and your son can come to a decision that you both agree with.






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CnBsmommy
PeaAddict

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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:33:54 AM

They don't have to sit around and gay bash. Excluding gays is bashing enough. You think the boy with two dads or moms or realizes that he is gay in his teens in the middle of Life or Eagle feels that the organization is kind?




when I see our gay friends who are active in the scouts I'll ask them. my inclination is that since they are so involved, they feel welcome & comfortable. & since this isn't a new issue, I'm pretty sure they were well informed before they joined the scouts.


scrappower
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Posted: 4/5/2013 10:26:26 AM

when I see our gay friends who are active in the scouts I'll ask them. my inclination is that since they are so involved, they feel welcome & comfortable. & since this isn't a new issue, I'm pretty sure they were well informed before they joined the scouts.


Except things have been changing and they are withholding Eagles from gay scouts now, that wasn't done in the past.



lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

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Posted: 4/5/2013 12:26:54 PM
OP, thank you for the clarification. You have a lot on your plate right now.


LUCYG
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



Melmag
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Posted: 4/5/2013 12:59:54 PM
To follow up on Darcy's point, when I was in a similar situation (with x not being a good male role model), DS1 came home from a campout saying, "Mr. Scoutleader is the BEST DAD EVER!" Five or six years later, (I don't remember exactly when it was) Mr. Scoutleader still has a tremendous positive impact on my son's life, and I am very grateful.

Poor x though. It could have been him.


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leftturnonly
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Posted: 4/5/2013 1:23:10 PM
I got the impression that you were firmly against banning gay individuals, fwiw.



Your family is going through enormous stress right now. Every single change is confusing and difficult, and while your boy is hard to get moving, once he's there at Scouts, he's probably letting his guard down and able to relax and forget the family problems a bit.

He's not stupid. He knows people who are homosexual. He knows what the Scouts stand for. On the whole, what they stand for and how they help develop young boys who are going through serious family difficulties can far outweigh what they are against for him at this time.

I hate that people can lose rank and be kicked out, make no mistake on my position. I know at least one young man that this may affect personally. And yet.... what Scouts has given to not only my family but this young man's family over many years can never be taken away.

I humbly suggest that if it's not too much of a strain that he continue going through the rest of the semester. Knowing he has that time away from home each week is probably more of a relief to him than he realizes, and dropping out right now might deny him a much-needed safe outlet to be a boy and forget his family for a short time each week.

If that's not the case, and the idea of going to meetings is causing him more stress - like he has trouble sleeping the night before or something like that - than that's a great indication that he'll be more comfortable dropping out sooner rather than later.

Considering all he has to deal with, I think that the Boy Scouts hundred plus years policy doesn't need to be made a priority in his social life. His immediate needs are more of a concern than the greater societal needs - at least for the time being. You're his mother before you are a gay advocate.

I'm sorry for whatever difficulties you are going through. {{{hugs}}}






If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.



HeyAnne
Enjoying Today

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Posted: 4/5/2013 9:39:26 PM
I got some good things to think about after I clarified my position. My OP was definitely not clear. I knew what I meant, my wording didnt relay it for sure.

I talked to another Scout Mom tonight - her son and my son are the same age and buddies. She is having difficulty getting him to scouts too. I guess that is the age.

I agree with letting him finish out the semester for the reasons that were stated on here.

I will let the scout master know why we are not coming back at the end of the year.

Thanks everyone. Hugs are very appreciated.


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Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
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lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 4/6/2013 1:47:51 PM
thanks OP.
I just think you should do what's in your heart.

If your son doesn't really want to go anyway, why not be honest with him and say you are dropping out..and why.

tell the scouts about your values. they need to hear.

your son may be able to find a good group elsewhere, where there is respect for everyone, and in line with your velues of non-discrimination.

glad you came back! I thought that was what you meant, but it just needed to be clear.

Kelpea
Owner of "best tacky invitation" thread EVER

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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:10:22 PM
HeyAnn. I am sorry you're having a rough go right now.

And thank you for your updates. Your son is at the age where a lot of kids drop out of scouts; it's pretty typical. My own son didn't make it to middle school, unfortunately.


If your son doesn't like the events and doesn't believe in god, then I truly don't see the difficulty in having him quit the Boy Scouts.


Huh? You DON'T have to believe in God to be a boy scout.



Dalai Mama
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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:19:23 PM

Huh? You DON'T have to believe in God to be a boy scout.
Yeah, you do. Atheists and agnostics are banned along with gays. Boy Scouts and Atheists


Jo Mama

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Kelpea
Owner of "best tacky invitation" thread EVER

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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:23:21 PM

Huh? You DON'T have to believe in God to be a boy scout.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, you do. Atheists and agnostics are banned along with gays. Boy Scouts and Atheists


Wow. I know kids and families who are scouts but don't believe. Or at the very least, agnostic. I guess they faked it, lol.



Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme

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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:31:44 PM
It's part of Scout Law : "A scout is reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful to his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion."


Jo Mama

***********************************

Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight. - Bruce Cockburn

The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams


lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:40:29 PM
another form of discrimination. religion/belief in G-d is such an individual choice and freedom, I would be uncomfortable with that stance too.

I accept peoples' right to choose their religion/G-D. and yes, I know pre-teens who question the existence of a higher being.

Dalai Mama
La Pea Boheme

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Posted: 4/6/2013 2:50:26 PM

another form of discrimination. religion/belief in G-d is such an individual choice and freedom, I would be uncomfortable with that stance too.
As an atheist, I'm more comfortable with the discrimination against those who don't believe in a god. Not because atheism isn't innate (it's the very epitome of innate) or that it's really a choice but it's more of a choice than being gay is.


Jo Mama

***********************************

Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight. - Bruce Cockburn

The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams


stittsygirl
I AM SHER LOCKED

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Posted: 4/6/2013 3:04:52 PM

The Rules and Regs concerning a belief in god.


Section 1. Declaration of Religious Principle, clause 1. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law."The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.


So as atheists, members of our family are not considered the best kind of citizens for the BSA, which is fine by me. I prefer our own family values to those of the BSA, and consider the organization not worthy of our membership.



Kristen, lucky mom and proud retired Army wife!



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