Really not caring if the gov't shuts down
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 9/26/2013 by desertpea in NSBR Board
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desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/28/2013 12:19:54 AM
Why are you avoiding the question?

You said -- without knowing a damn thing about me -- that it was the state I live in responsible for no jobs in my field. Not anything else but the state.

What state has all the hidden jobs?

I honestly don't care if you want/need to move or not if you lose all sources of income. Really, I don't. I am sure if your kids were going hungry, you'd do what you can to feed them.

But don't sit here and assume you know things about people and the state of the job market when you don't know where the 21 million real unemployment comes from. It comes from the U-6 number which counts those who "gave up looking for work." Those people -- and I am counted as one of them -- cannot find jobs or -- tada! -- they wouldn't be unemployed. And a good chunk of them have degrees. Ergo, the 4% number you quoted was crap.

And you have zero authority to judge who needs to do what in their personal lives. Many people are working overseas either temp or permanently, and are doing just fine. There are no jobs for us here in our fields, and we move to where the jobs are. Pretty simple concept you fail to grasp.

Enjoy your job killing policies that have absolutely wrecked this economy. If people have degrees and are unemployed for a year or more, they should consider working overseas.

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 9/28/2013 12:41:59 AM

And you have zero authority to judge who needs to do what in their personal lives.


Same goes for you.



desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/28/2013 12:54:40 AM

Same goes for you.


Do quote where I told someone they didn't "need" to move. I mean, obviously I am so lazy and didn't pursue job options in other parts of the country. The ones that are hidden in the mystery state or whatever Jeanne is imagining.

Did I hurt your feelings by picking on your Obamacare?

mirabelleswalker
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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:15:44 AM
You have implied what you think people "need" to do, whether you've used the word or not.

I take it your day trading career isn't working out so well.



PEAcefulmind
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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:22:10 AM
What I want to know is who the hell is deserters talking to??????

Man that warped soapbox she is on is teetering off its rails!!!

It's time for mess deserters, you're frothing and starting to sound like a loon!
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desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:33:37 AM

You have implied what you think people "need" to do, whether you've used the word or not.

I take it your day trading career isn't working out so well.


You're completely making stuff up now.

I finished trading for the year back in May -- the same thing I do every year. I know you like to wish financial hardship on people, so sorry to disappoint you and deny you glee.

I know you don't understand it, but some of us actually like to work -- especially if you haven't worked in years because of this junk economy, so I really don't understand where you think you have this authority to dictate who should work and who shouldn't.

Aren't you happy with the progress of the economy? We're partying like it's 2009!

Edit: this chart was too huge.

unemployment under Obama jan 2009 to August 2013

Right back where we started. What the hell was the point?

lucyg819
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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:35:24 AM

Wait right there Lucy. I never said anyone didn't earn their pension and I sure as hell didn't insinuate that police officers or their widows didn't deserve them. I'll restate what I said to begin this discussion.


I don't think government workers are evil, I don't think their leeches in the system. I do think they're often tone deaf when it comes to hearing frustration on the relative pay, benefits and job security relative to the private sector.


Benefits particularly retirement benefits are vastly different. It doesn't matter how much some would like to brush off $2,000 a month as insignificant. For the vast majority of people working in the private sector for $60K a year, it isn't insignificant - it's a hell of a lot more than they are going to see when they're 60. It's sad really, just how many people are simply never going to retire or when they do are going to be living in poverty.

I don't remember now what I was flipped out over when I posted that. Not sure you were the one who set me off at all.

However, this:

I don't think government workers are evil, I don't think their leeches in the system. I do think they're often tone deaf when it comes to hearing frustration on the relative pay, benefits and job security relative to the private sector.

actually might have been it.

My point was that this pension of mine wasn't handed to me at no cost by the taxpayers. We paid till it hurt, him from the age of 21, toward our retirement. And if he had died without leaving a spouse, his estate would have forfeited every penny of that pension. It was not a gift from the taxpayers. (I did not mean to play dirty by bringing in the murdered husband. Just ignore that part, for purposes of this discussion.)

And while public employees may be tone deaf, they are not alone. My sister took a 50% pay cut when she voluntarily left private practice to become a deputy district attorney because she wanted to do something more worthwhile. The pay is crap compared to non-public-service lawyers, but the benefits help make it doable for her. And BTW, she frequently complains that the admins in her office make so little that they're eligible for food stamps. All of them work their asses off and the attorneys routinely work at home nights and weekends.

But desertpea and others will continue to complain about overpaid, underworked, heavily-benefited public employees. Which is why people like me get mad and start sputtering.


LUCYG
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desertpea
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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:48:08 AM
Local and state -- you can move if you don't like it. Vote yourselves free ice cream every Friday for all I care. Do it until you go bankrupt.

The federal bloat you can't escape from, so don't put words in my mouth I didn't say, Lucy.

Darcy said it a lot better than I did. No one cares about state and local pensions -- the local taxpayers and voters can change things or leave them alone. That's how it is supposed to be.

Why do you think we're comparing a local law enforcement widow pension to the assistant to the assistant of US Department of Agriculture communications manager? We're not comparing it. You brought it up out of nowhere in a discussion about federal budget. Most of you don't even acknowledge Obamacare is part of the budget and a huge reason driving raising the debt ceiling.

I am honestly curious as to why you all that support this are so hell bent on more debt, more unemployment, higher taxes... It's like you all get off on seeing people suffer. You don't want to negotiate. You don't want to meet in the middle. Why? Do you even know?

Here's one for you Lucy: the people who take care of you when you are sick don't care what your political beliefs are. They treat you because that is what they do. There is no special treatment card based on that. They work 80 hours a week sometimes. Pretty much every single person I know that works in healthcare is never home, and it's going to get worse. Messing with people's health care typically doesn't do well long term.

Sarah*H
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Posted: 9/28/2013 6:36:27 AM

There are not a whole of engineering jobs in the US right now. People can say there is expected growth, yadda yadda yadda, but if you do some searching, you'll notice that a good chunk of the job listings are for overseas.

Not saying I'm an engineer. I'm just saying I know more than one nuclear engineer who left because they aren't exactly building nuclear plants in the US.


Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places. I just pulled up one job search site for one city (the one I happen to live in so the one I happen to be familiar with some employers) and hit on 14 jobs for "nuclear engineer" posted within the last 2 months. My husband also happens to be in a position where he hires engineers as does my next door neighbor who as a Turkish born "pull himself up by his bootstraps type" often laments that he can't find enough competent US born engineering students.




back to *pea*ality
AncestralPea

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Posted: 9/28/2013 6:47:36 AM
I am a Republican.

Yesterday, I received a survey from my Congressman, he is a Republican.

The survey asked for my point of view and my response was to continue funding Government operations and to fund the Affordable Care Act.

Then I wrote him a letter saying that there are certain aspects of the Affordable Care Act from a macro point of view that I support such as providing health care coverage to those with pre-existing conditions and allowing children to stay on parents policies until age 26.

I don't think that the Federal Government should micromanage health care and create yet another entitlement program that we cannot afford.

At the same time, I think we spend far too much on defense and there is rampant fraud and abuse of American taxpayer money including all the pork barrel special interest spending.

We can do better to take care of those who need a hand up.

That being said, if the polls hold after October 1st and the majority of Americans still think "Obamacare" is a bad idea after they said it was a good idea last November then the way to repeal, amend, rollback the law is to elect those who best represent your views at the polls in the mid-term election.

I am disgusted with everyone in Washington in every branch of government - a pox on all their houses.

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AncestralPea

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Posted: 9/28/2013 6:57:32 AM

Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places. I just pulled up one job search site for one city (the one I happen to live in so the one I happen to be familiar with some employers) and hit on 14 jobs for "nuclear engineer" posted within the last 2 months. My husband also happens to be in a position where he hires engineers as does my next door neighbor who as a Turkish born "pull himself up by his bootstraps type" often laments that he can't find enough competent US born engineering students.


My son is an Engineering student. Prior to his freshman year, the Engineering School at the University he attends had an open house for incoming students and their parents. The dean said that engineers are in great demand and that we only train about 5% of what we need from the pool of American students.

The demand for engineers in this country far exceeds the supply.

My son goes to a university that has a co-op (internship program) and many students have multiple job offers before they graduate. I was shocked at how much he is earning in this program, in six months he is able to earn enough to cover his room and board in a major metro area.

PierKiss
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Posted: 9/28/2013 6:57:38 AM
What country are you moving to Desertpea?

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:04:07 AM

The dean said that engineers are in great demand and that we only train about 5% of what we need from the pool of American students.

The demand for engineers in this country far exceeds the supply.


I think we need to be careful to not lump all engineers together. There are segments of engineering that are still quite robust, others have not recovered to the level of job numbers as before the tech bubble burst in 2001. The 5% number is completely wrong (or misquoted). The percentage of foreign born engineers and other STEM workers is high - about 30% but that's also overstated as many of those are Americans.

There's been a lot of discussion in the tech circles about the H1B visa program - particularly as there's been pretty sustained real unemployment numbers for engineers - something that historically we really didn't see.

Here's a few interesting articles for those interested in this tangent.

Dismal unemployment for electrical engineers

Software employment grows as engineering angst continues

This one I'll warn is pretty biased and has too strong of an agenda for me to post without warning. I did find some of the data interesting as it looked at sub segments of engineering and whether they had left the field or not.
Engineers in other fields


To be clear, I am not all doom and gloom about engineering. I know a lot of engineers, and they have continued to do better than most in this economy. It is different than it was in the 90s when engineers were in such high demand unemployment was essentially zero.

~*kristina*~
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:39:43 AM

But desertpea and others will continue to complain about overpaid, underworked, heavily-benefited public employees. Which is why people like me get mad and start sputtering.


Exactly Lucy and I do too....desertpea and her ilk have no clue how much of my own money (which the bulk of my pension comes from), how much uncompensated time I've given the government over the years and that's beside the fact that I served my country for four years, so when certain idiots start spewing the "sucking the teat off the government" to belittle, I have to chalk it up to jealousy and ignorance and they are belittling everyone who is a public servant or has served or is serving in the military.





Megan**
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Posted: 9/28/2013 1:46:24 PM


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desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/28/2013 3:47:26 PM

Exactly Lucy and I do too....desertpea and her ilk have no clue how much of my own money (which the bulk of my pension comes from), how much uncompensated time I've given the government over the years and that's beside the fact that I served my country for four years, so when certain idiots start spewing the "sucking the teat off the government" to belittle, I have to chalk it up to jealousy and ignorance and they are belittling everyone who is a public servant or has served or is serving in the military.


See, this is exactly why I have a huge issue with Obamacare. People like you have no idea that the money in your paycheck and contributing to your pension is NOT YOURS. It's mine. It's every single taxpayer's money. And your huge chip on your shoulder is going to dictate MY health care? What services I get, and when I get them?

I've already seen what people of your ilk who think everyone that contributes to that pot of money your paycheck comes from is scum does with their artificial power. You go after people and harass them. It's not your money. I am your boss, and I'm going to tell you right now that you get to retire at 50 because of me. Not you -- you don't make anything or produce anything of value. You serve ME.

And one more thing, you stupid woman -- a good chunk of my family served and continues to serve in the military. I worked in campaigns to get ALL MILITARY pay raises during the Bush years because I'm pretty tired of paying a military not to defend the US, but to defend pretty much every country we're allied with and keeping them entangled in stuff that ended a long time ago. They KNOW who paid their salary and who they were serving. They never bit the hand that fed them, and wished people PAYING THEIR SALARIES ill. They certainly don't want to have their savings depleted and going hungry so you can tootle around in an RV.

How would you like if you couldn't retire until 67 with half of what you would get at 50? Just remember where your paycheck comes from, and if you advocate that the taxpayers have to make do with less, then you're going to make do with less because we have less to give you. Why does this simple concept elude you? Do you think the money fairy sprinkles dust into a treasury vault and the money magically appears in your paycheck?

So yeah, every time one of you federal workers get caught watching porn or posting on the internet on computers PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS or taking sensitive information to fuck with people who have a different political view than you, then YOU DON'T GET YOUR PENSION.

I don't want people like you in charge of my life decisions and compartmentalizing the population into your little political designations. I want you the fuck out of my health care. I don't want you talking to my health providers. I don't want to view you as some monolithic version of the STAZI. You are our SERVANTS, and you serve at our discretion.

Shut the damn thing down. These people went all Napoleonic, and it's time for a reminder of who you serve -- and it's not Obama. It's the US taxpayer.

~*kristina*~
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:01:26 PM


I have a feeling I know why you can't find a job.






Yubon
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:06:16 PM
Unemployment rates for the batshit crazy are at normal levels of 80%. Prospects are not much better outside of the US. That retirement bunker in Idaho sounds like the perfect spot for our loveable desertpea. Don't let the door hit ya!



maddiesmum
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:08:30 PM
Sounds to me like desertpea has been trying to get a federal job for a while now and can't! What a lunatic you are, DP. They make excellent medications for your mental illness now. Perhaps when you get your new subsidized health insurance policy you can make an appointment for a psychiatrist. Here's hoping!


Yubon
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:13:21 PM


Do you think the money fairy sprinkles dust into a treasury vault and the money magically appears in your paycheck?
Yes, and I think the money fairy's name is Ben Bernanke. I LOVE that man!

{popping popcorn}



desertpea
StuckOnPeas

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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:26:07 PM

I have a feeling I know why you can't find a job.


LOL, I have one sweetie. It's in another country -- where a good chunk of the US jobs went, and pays way better than the US market rate.

Which is why there is now a law that people overseas have to submit all their account information if they earn over $50K. Too many of us are following our employers overseas to better economic climates where companies can't even repatriate the earnings back to the US because of your stupid laws.

Tell me, Kristina -- who pays your salary?

The same people whose elected representatives are going to shut down the government because the Senate and the President refuse to negotiate on something the majority doesn't want.

Enjoy.

PierKiss
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:31:03 PM
What country are you moving to Desertpea?

Sarah*H
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:35:33 PM
Has your new employer actually had to communicate with you yet?



sammi71
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Posted: 9/28/2013 4:42:04 PM
It's getting a little like not liking Walmart's policies and yelling at the check out girl about them right now.

~*kristina*~
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Posted: 9/28/2013 5:56:16 PM

It's getting a little like not liking Walmart's policies and yelling at the check out girl about them right now.


true dat....but you have to agree that it's pretty entertaining.





dottyscrapper
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Posted: 9/28/2013 6:11:29 PM
desertpea - you know that this country that you're planning on moving to doesn't exist don't you? Sir Thomas More's Utopia was purely fictional.
Just thought I'd let you in on that little secret before you did too much packing!




yivit
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Posted: 9/28/2013 7:06:38 PM
I'm still wondering who the fuck gets to retire at 50 and live high on the hog off their federal retirement. I work with tons of federal civil servants and I can tell you that not a single one of them fall into that scenario. Their retirement and insurance is about the same amount of suckage as mine as a privately-held company employee on a government contract.

My late mother-in-law was living off of her late husband's combined military and NASA civil servant retirement (and later, death) benefits, and she was not living any lavish or even comfortable lifestyle (even though he had retired under the better older plan). She was just fortunate that her car and house were paid off and that she had 3 boys and their families who helped.



If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee. - Abraham Lincoln

Yubon
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Posted: 9/28/2013 7:27:26 PM
Classic



maddiesmum
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Posted: 9/28/2013 8:03:35 PM



Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:15:28 PM

I'm still wondering who the fuck gets to retire at 50 and live high on the hog off their federal retirement


There's a small percentage of people who truly live high on the hog on a federal pension- if you like you can read about them here:

USA Today

It's really a small number, so in reality the handful of people living "high on the hog" doesn't really move the needle. My comment is really about the relative level of suckage. The average federal pension is $32,824, I am not for a moment going to suggest they're living high on the hog - although their COLA makes it a nice retirement benefit.

It's that the vast majority of those in the private sector have nada, nothing, squat. A full 55% of those 55 and old have saved NOTHING and have no pension whatsoever. A full third of those 65 to 69 and older are now still working and 20% of those 70 to 74 are still working. I mentioned the average 401K above, but the median is probably more relevant and is just $120,00 for those 55 and older. That will give them a whopping $4,800 a YEAR!!!

I find it ironic that people are quick to acknowledge how fleeting the "American Dream" of social mobility has become but when one mentions that retiring at all has become a bastion of the wealthy and public employees - people just want to keep saying their retirement benefits are no different. Seriously, look around. I know I'm one of the lucky ones - I find it shocking how few people realize if they're talking of retiring at 58 with $30K in guaranteed income, you're one of the lucky ones.

ETA I forgot to include the bloomberg article that had the stats mentioned above:



Bloomber - 77 and flipping burgers


desertpea
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:24:21 PM

Has your new employer actually had to communicate with you yet?


Every day.

Do you normally have this tendency to lie on internet message boards?

Where is this nuclear plant they're building in your city? Because you are full of it about the "fourteen nuclear plant engineer jobs" unless you live in Georgia or South Carolina, which only got approved about a year ago. First ones in thirty years.

There are several countries in the world building much more than two, and my friends moved there awhile ago. They probably make about six times the amount your husband does, and they do what they love and are very happy.

So... what's your point, especially since I'm not an engineer of any type?


What country are you moving to Desertpea?


You asked twice, and no offense, that's kinda creepy. Let's say Antarctica, and I'm selling ice cubes to penguins.



To be clear, I am not all doom and gloom about engineering. I know a lot of engineers, and they have continued to do better than most in this economy. It is different than it was in the 90s when engineers were in such high demand unemployment was essentially zero.


You are completely correct. The problem is the decreasing manufacturing base here in the US -- I read those articles you posted, and someone commented along those lines as well. I know so many who are leaving to work at US subsidiaries overseas, and if they didn't do that, then they'd still be on unemployment. It's a crapshoot, and it constantly changes in certain areas. Let's just say I don't understand why we keep expanding the H1-B visa program when there are so many experienced engineers unemployed in the US. I feel the frustration in those comments, and know what they are going through (not an engineer).

There should not be such a war between a government and its citizens. Something of this magnitude killing so many jobs and cutting the average HHI is just... ugh. Over 65% of jobs created are part time. It skeeves me to the bone is the best way I can describe it.

So this last attempt better get rid of it because the thought these cruel people being in charge of health care scares the hell out of me. I am so sick of nursing friends complaining about what no one wants to discuss -- they are getting treated horribly. A friend's son just dropped out of medical school. I just don't think anything is going to change, and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:30:59 PM

"fourteen nuclear plant engineer jobs"


Nuclear plants need engineers during operation - not just during construction. I have no clue if 14 are needed in Sarah's area, but my old college boyfriend (well perhaps that's overstated - boy I "dated" briefly) has had no issue being employed for decades in the US and has never worked on a new plant.

desertpea
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:41:39 PM

It's that the vast majority of those in the private sector have nada, nothing, squat. A full 55% of those 55 and old have saved NOTHING and have no pension whatsoever. A full third of those 65 to 69 and older are now still working and 20% of those 70 to 74 are still working. I mentioned the average 401K above, but the median is probably more relevant and is just $120,00 for those 55 and older. That will give them a whopping $4,800 a YEAR!!!


They think federal public servants are a protected class. They believe they are entitled to it, and we are supposed to keep coughing up money we don't have to support it.

I will never understand that mentality. If we don't have the money, then they don't have the money. There are so many insolvent pension funds out there right now, and they will eventually blow up. When they do, it's not going to be pretty.

desertpea
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:50:36 PM

Nuclear plants need engineers during operation - not just during construction. I have no clue if 14 are needed in Sarah's area, but my old college boyfriend (well perhaps that's overstated - boy I "dated" briefly) has had no issue being employed for decades in the US and has never worked on a new plant.


Correct, but that's not what my friends do -- as I clearly said in my post about it that Sarah weirdly glommed onto. They work on something highly specialized, and when the contract is done, unless there is some plant somewhere that needs it, they are out of work. So there was a huge gap in between, and they got the offer to go to another country that needed that. It was pretty much a no-brainer of a decision.

eta:

Let me explain another example. A friend works in consumer electronics. He had to relocate to South Korea because that is where stuff is manufactured now -- not here. He still has US citizenship, but he likes living in South Korea. He's probably not going to come back; he married a South Korean woman and he's happy there. Why should he come back if there isn't a job for him here in the US and he doesn't really want to come back here? Because of this nutty financial legislation taking effect next year, he might want to turn in his US passport. I don't know; I haven't asked him. Just that there is a lot of talk about it recently in expat circles.

Why is this so difficult for people to comprehend? There are plenty of countries in the world where the quality of life is better for that person. I get the feeling that some people posting on this thread want to build a wall to keep people from leaving. Which imo is really creepy.

maddiesmum
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Posted: 9/28/2013 10:21:33 PM
I think DP makes and sells meth in Mexico. Are you Heisenberg?




desertpea
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Posted: 9/28/2013 10:38:15 PM

Days ahead of a government shutdown, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is celebrating her 50th wedding anniversary outside Washington, D.C.

“Speaker Boehner has told me he has the votes for his proposals on his side of the aisle and that he will not need our help," Pelosi (D-Calif.) wrote in a letter to colleagues. “I have been in contact with our leadership team and Members, and we appreciate the united front from Members as we proceed."

politico



Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) on Saturday rejected a House Republican plan to avoid a government shutdown, declaring it “pointless" for the House to vote later Saturday on tying a one-year delay in the new federal health care law to legislation funding federal agencies.

Mr. Reid also said the Senate would not accept a House measure repealing a tax on medical devices imposed by the new health law. House lawmakers this evening will vote on whether to attach the tax repeal and the health-law delay to legislation funding the government through Dec. 15.

“To be absolutely clear, the Senate will reject both the one-year delay of the Affordable Care Act and the repeal of the medical device tax," said Mr. Reid.

wsj



What an absolute POS Reid is.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House says President Barack Obama would veto House Republican legislation that would delay much of the president's health care overhaul for a year and cancel a tax on medical devices.

AP



Looks like the Senate and the President want the gov't to shut down. The house proposal funds the gov't through Dec. 15, repeals the medical device tax, and delays implementation of Obamacare for one year, which is reasonable given the exchanges and certifications aren't up to snuff anyway. Military gets paid no matter what, as there is specific language in the bills that provides for that.

I think it's a real shame the Senate and the Executive branch don't believe in negotiation and are being extremely pigheaded about this. I guess if you are against a government shut down, you should probably call your Senators and tell them.

mirabelleswalker
My president has 6-pack abs.

PeaNut 175,521
November 2004
Posts: 11,597
Layouts: 14
Loc: Here today, gone to Morocco.

Posted: 9/28/2013 10:41:40 PM

I get the feeling that some people posting on this thread want to build a wall to keep people from leaving.


Definitely not the case. Although we might build one so people can't get back in.



PierKiss
What if everything is an illusion & nothing exists

PeaNut 82,319
April 2003
Posts: 15,020
Layouts: 39

Posted: 9/29/2013 6:13:09 AM
I was just curious. I posted twice because I thought you missed it the first time. You keep talking about how great this other country is and I was curious which one it is. Sorry if that creeps you out.

~*kristina*~
Typical Liberal Pea

PeaNut 55,230
November 2002
Posts: 18,410
Layouts: 106
Loc: Fly Over Country

Posted: 9/29/2013 3:14:20 PM

I'm still wondering who the fuck gets to retire at 50 and live high on the hog off their federal retirement. I work with tons of federal civil servants and I can tell you that not a single one of them fall into that scenario. Their retirement and insurance is about the same amount of suckage as mine as a privately-held company employee on a government contract.



That's what I'm been trying to say for at least a page.

I'll have an okay pension but it will take me 30 years to get it. Anything less and you take deductions and that okay pension starts to shrink.




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