Because he's so trustworthy...
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 11/14/2013 by Enough in NSBR Board
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leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 1:06:03 PM

You look at everything as black and white. Look at the big picture. Look at the "grandfather clause" in the ACA. Notice the big loophole there for insurance companies?

An Insurance Co Ex in CA came out and said they don't want the indiviual policies anymore. What they want are all these guys in the exchange. You don't think that with 2 years from the time the bill was signed until now with the loophole in the ACA the insurance companies wouldn't find a way to push the individual policy holders into the exchange? Really?

Yes the White House/President mishandled the you can keep your insurnace but based on what I'm reading the insurance companies blindsided the ACA when it came to the individual policy holders.

Remember the insurance companies, who choose to write heatlh care insurance, can no longer pick and choose who they want to insure. And they can no longer cap the payments. And they now have to treat mental illness like any other sickness. All these changes increase the insurance companies exposure to paying out more in claims. So what did you think they were going to do? Especially since there is no guarantee the young healthy folks are going to buy insurance.


Why was the ACA written in such a way that this could happen?

I'll tell you why. Because a group decided that they were going to take charge and ram through incomplete legislation before it was adequately reviewed and agreed on come Hell or high water.






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leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 1:08:38 PM
BTW..... Today is the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. President Obama was asked to attend well over a year ago.

Where is he today?






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Peppermintpatty
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Posted: 11/19/2013 1:11:22 PM
Should we go through the lies that Bush said during his presidency, or those that Clinton or the elder Bush said. THEY.ALL.LIE.GET.OVER.IT.





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Posted: 11/19/2013 1:26:54 PM
And today, if you thought the website rollout was bad,Henry Chao, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Deputy Chief Information Officer in a House hearing states:

"Let me get this correct,Gardner says, 60 to 70 percent of Healthcare.gov still needs to be built?

Chao responds, It's not really Healthcare.gov, it's the federally facilitated marketplace.

Gardner: But the entire system that the American people are being required to rely on

Chao: That part is there. Healthcare.gov, the online application, verification, determination, plan compare, getting enrolled, generating enrollment transactions, that's 100 percent there. What I'm talking about

Gardner: But the entire system is 60 to 70 percent away from being complete?

Chao: There's the back office systems, the accounting systems, the payment systems, they still need be built."


WOW! Right now there is no back office system to the website? No accounting or payment systems setup? They are going to take all these enrollments and I assume the payments, send the information to the insurance carriers to enroll them but have no way of paying the insurance carriers? Don't you think the carriers are going to start dropping insured for non-payment then? But I am sure it will be blamed on the insurer rather than the incompetent employees at CMS/HHS!

Enough
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Posted: 11/19/2013 2:01:49 PM

BTW..... Today is the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. President Obama was asked to attend well over a year ago.

Where is he today?
His Schedule today. He is a 20 minute helicopter ride away. Why would he not go?
He did a video reciting the address as Lincoln did, with former presidents and celebrities and for some reason didn't say the "under God" part of it.






Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK JR

leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 2:19:41 PM

He did a video reciting the address as Lincoln did, with former presidents and celebrities and for some reason refused to say the "under God" part of it.


Rewriting the past.

Again.





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Kymberlee
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Posted: 11/19/2013 2:28:38 PM
I do have to chime in here on the "under God" that was left out of Obama's recitation of the Gettysburg address. I just don't get why he would do that. I know he did; I heard the audio as well as other audio from several other people that did not delete the "under God". It is just freaking weird. I just don't understand why he would omit that part of a speech that is a piece of history.




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Posted: 11/19/2013 2:59:29 PM
Well I googled that for you. Link


Obama's recitation was not 'curious,' it was accurate -- Burns requested that President Obama read the 'Nicolay Version' of the Address, which was Lincoln's first draft of the Address and does not contain the phrase "under God." The relevant text of the Nicolay version, which Obama recites, reads (emphasis added):

It is rather for us, the living, we here be dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that, from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here, gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

The right-wing media's rush to hysteria and ignorance of the facts in this case is ironic: Burns' project is called Learn the Address.

UPDATE: After this post's publication, the Daily Caller acknowledged the error in an update to its original post:

The "Learn the Address" website notes that "We asked President Obama to read ... the 'Nicolay Version'" of the Gettsyburg Address, which omits the words "under God." That disclosure does not appear alongside Obama's video on the site.

UPDATE 2: National Review Online's The Corner also published an update to its original post:

During today's White House press briefing, press secretary Jay Carney claimed that President Obama had read from the version of the Gettysburg Address given to him by documentarian Ken Burns. This appears to be the case. As Mediaite notes, the website for Burns' upcoming project, Learn the Address, says that there are five manuscripts of the Gettysburg Address and that Obama read from the "Nicolay Version." This version of the manuscript is believed to be the earliest of the copies of the Address, and it does omit the phrase "under God." Three of the five manuscripts do include the phrase.


I, personally, am aghast that Lincoln originally wrote a version without the words "under God" in it.



leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:03:50 PM


During today's White House press briefing, press secretary Jay Carney claimed that President Obama had read from the version of the Gettysburg Address given to him by documentarian Ken Burns. This appears to be the case.


So Obama received a completely different version than everyone else?

Shame on them if that's true.






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Kim M.
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:04:15 PM
What I'm finding interesting in all of this is that a year ago, no news network (other than Fox) would say anything against the President, nor his administration. Now, it looks like he has become a joke, literally.

Jay Leno made a comment last night about 4-year olds and computers and that they should have been hired for the healthcare.gov site programming.

Saturday Night Live actually dogged him (but, of course, needed to get in a Republican dig at the end) Paxil Anti-depressants for ObamaCare.

Last Thursday (Friday?), ABC Nightline covered President Obama's speech by the numbers. In case you don't want to watch the 2 minute video, here's the highlights...

Very interesting! A 50 minute speech, and during that time we saw
  • 29 apologies or attempted apologies
  • 4 "fumbling the football" analogies
  • Said the word "Problems" 26 times...once every 2 minutes. said the word "Frustrated" 3 times and the word "Cancelled or Cancelation" 10 times.
  • healthcare.gov cost somewhere between $320 million and $600 million to build. That's 4 times what it cost Apple to develop the iPhone.
  • Less than 27,000 had started a plan through the site. (as of last week) though administration predicted a half a million by this time and 3.3 million by the end of the year.
  • 4.8 million have been notified that they are losing their existing policies.
  • All time low 39% approval rating. (This same week of President Bush's term, he was at 40%.)


Kim

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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:09:30 PM

So Obama received a completely different version than everyone else?

Shame on them if that's true.


No, not shame on them. The name of Ken Burn's project is Learn the Address. (This is a case where Alanis Morissette could learn about real irony.) There were five different versions of it and Obama was asked to read the first version.



leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:25:32 PM

There were five different versions of it and Obama was asked to read the first version.


The only version that matters is the version that Lincoln actually gave.

This wasn't a video on different people reading 5 different versions, it was different people giving one address.

I don't know nor care what Ken Burns had to do with this other than I don't think it was appropriate for Obama to be given a version that was different from all the others that said under God.

Under God was in the address that was given 150 years ago today. That's what made history for our country.

Time to honor and respect it. Other versions don't do that. Giving the sitting president of the United States a different version didn't do that.








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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:40:54 PM
^^^Exactly what Lefty wrote^^^

We don't quote drafts, or different versions of ANYTHING else when we pause to remember our history.

Trying to claim otherwise is like trying to say we're honoring the drafts of the Constitution, or the Declaration. Who cares what the other versions said? We live by ONE version. And we honor ONE version, the words that Lincoln used to address this nation.

Why does another version have any weight at all? It's not what he actually decided on, and said in the address!


~ Tracey

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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:46:16 PM
FWIW, I knew there were 5 versions of the GA. I just find it weird that everyone else (to my knowledge) read the speech we are all familiar with and the President read a draft or the address. I just find it odd.




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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:47:12 PM
I don't want to hijack this thread into the purpose of why it's important to record and learn all parts of history but really? You don't think it's the tiniest bit interesting or relevant that Lincoln left those words out of three draft versions? You don't want to know why he did that or why he ultimately decided to include them?


To celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address, documentarian Ken Burns, along with numerous partners, has launched a national effort to encourage everyone in America to video record themselves reading or reciting the Abraham Lincoln's famous speech.

The inspiration for this project is the tiny Greenwood School in the small town of Putney, Vermont. The school's students, boys ages 11-17, all face a range of learning differences that have made their personal, academic and social progress extremely challenging. Yet each year they are encouraged to practice, memorize, and recite the Gettysburg Address.
The Greenwood School is the focus of Burns's next film, THE ADDRESS, which will air on PBS in the spring of 2014. The feature-length documentary shines a light on this extraordinary school and its efforts to memorialize the Gettysburg Address.

The film interweaves this contemporary story with the history, context and importance of the Address, which remains one of the most important declarations ever made on human equality. The site and videos will be utilized to create on-going interest in the Gettysburg Address and to support the educational materials that will be distributed as part of the broadcast of Burns's film in April 2014.


About the project



scrappower
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:48:31 PM
So now people are getting all up in arms because he read another version that he was asked to read? Come on people that is ridiculous.

Here is the site explaining all the different versions. It is not some big conspiracy to take god out of anything. Much ado about nothing.

http://www.learntheaddress.org



Ms. GreenGenes
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:49:22 PM
As a matter of personal interest in history, it might be an interesting tidbit.

When it comes to nationally honoring the address that Lincoln gave, I think it's an attempt to rewrite history when you put forth a version that was never actually given.


~ Tracey

scrappower
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:51:46 PM

As a matter of personal interest in history, it might be an interesting tidbit.

When it comes to nationally honoring the address that Lincoln gave, I think it's an attempt to rewrite history when you put forth a version that was never actually given.


Except it's not trying to rewrite anything. You are putting that distinction on it...the filmmaker did not.



Enough
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:55:06 PM

Burns requested that President Obama read the 'Nicolay Version' of the Address,
Well that would be one thing if it was in fact all someone else's doing and if he hadn't done it all on his own before. He left "endowed by their Creator" out of The Declaration of Independence. It was reported in 2010 that he did that at least 2 separate times. I don't think Burns was there requesting he do it then too.






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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:56:27 PM

I don't want to hijack this thread into the purpose of why it's important to record and learn all parts of history but really? You don't think it's the tiniest bit interesting or relevant that Lincoln left those words out of three draft versions? You don't want to know why he did that or why he ultimately decided to include them?



When it comes to nationally honoring the address that Lincoln gave, I think it's an attempt to rewrite history when you put forth a version that was never actually given.


Time and place.

I do not think it appropriate to have recorded Obama reading anything other than the version given at Gettysburg.

Ken Burns makes some wonderful documentaries. This is nothing against understanding what went into Lincoln's thoughts and everything to do with our actual national history.

By recording Obama giving any other version, you now have Obama recorded as giving something other than the historically accurate Gettysburg address. It makes him appear incompetent or worse.

There was no need to do that.







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Ms. GreenGenes
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:56:55 PM

To celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address, documentarian Ken Burns, along with numerous partners, has launched a national effort to encourage everyone in America to video record themselves reading or reciting the Abraham Lincoln's famous speech.

The inspiration for this project is the tiny Greenwood School in the small town of Putney, Vermont. The school's students, boys ages 11-17, all face a range of learning differences that have made their personal, academic and social progress extremely challenging. Yet each year they are encouraged to practice, memorize, and recite the Gettysburg Address.
The Greenwood School is the focus of Burns's next film, THE ADDRESS, which will air on PBS in the spring of 2014. The feature-length documentary shines a light on this extraordinary school and its efforts to memorialize the Gettysburg Address.

The film interweaves this contemporary story with the history, context and importance of the Address, which remains one of the most important declarations ever made on human equality. The site and videos will be utilized to create on-going interest in the Gettysburg Address and to support the educational materials that will be distributed as part of the broadcast of Burns's film in April 2014.


Scrappower, did you even read what Sarah quoted?

This is to highlight the address given. To teach what was said about equality. This is a national effort, according to this description. So we're going to encourage the nation to learn a version that was never spoken? Yeah, that's rewriting history, to me.


~ Tracey

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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:59:07 PM

So now people are getting all up in arms because he read another version that he was asked to read? Come on people that is ridiculous.

Here is the site explaining all the different versions. It is not some big conspiracy to take god out of anything. Much ado about nothing.


But it's been so delicious and entertaining to read the outrage.

Sarah - Please don't let your facts get in the way of some well placed outrage, that's no damn fun.





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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:59:58 PM


This is to highlight the address given. To teach what was said about equality. This is a national effort, according to this description. So we're going to encourage the nation to learn a version that was never spoken? Yeah, that's rewriting history, to me.


Moreover, you now give people the option to prefer "Obama's version" over the true version - the one that made history.

That's just not honest. It's Orwellian.






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Ms. GreenGenes
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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:00:07 PM
I missed the outrage. Where are the spluttering, furious faces?


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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:02:10 PM

Sarah - Please don't let your facts get in the way of some well placed outrage, that's no damn fun.


Oh yeah, it's really entertaining to hear the first black president misquote the Gettysburg Address that was given by the American president responsible for freeing the slaves.

You have a really warped sense of humor.






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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:03:02 PM
Oh, geez, and I missed this gem.

I wonder which version will be distributed as "educational materials"?


The site and videos will be utilized to create on-going interest in the Gettysburg Address and to support the educational materials that will be distributed as part of the broadcast of Burns's film in April 2014.


~ Tracey

scrappower
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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:04:37 PM
He didn't misquote anything and yes calling it Orwellian is a bit of outrage.



Enough
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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:06:23 PM

It is not some big conspiracy to take god out of anything. Much ado about nothing.
Actually, American Constitution Society for Law and Policy, an influential organization whose boardmembers include former New York Times Supreme Court reporter Linda Greenhouse, controversial Obama judicial nominee Goodwin Liu, former New York governor Mario Cuomo, former solicitors general Drew Days and Walter Dellinger, and former attorney general Janet Reno printed a pocket sized version of our fundamental documents, including the Gettysburg Address that did exactly that.






Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK JR

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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:09:46 PM

He didn't misquote anything and yes calling it Orwellian is a bit of outrage.


Maybe they don't know what that means....lol


You have a really warped sense of humor.


That's not the first time someone has told me that.





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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:12:19 PM

He didn't misquote anything and yes calling it Orwellian is a bit of outrage.


Maybe they don't know what that means....lol


Well, when the personal insults start flying, I know the argument's over, because they've got nothing else left to throw.

Off to memorize the Gettysburg Address. The real one.


~ Tracey

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Posted: 11/19/2013 4:28:13 PM

He didn't misquote anything and yes calling it Orwellian is a bit of outrage.


I said that he was recorded giving something other than an accurate reading of the address that was given.

It is the address that was given that made history.

The recording taken out of the context of Burns' whatever makes it sound as if Obama got it wrong. I think it was completely inappropriate to put Obama in that position.




Orwellian is exactly the right term. Only one version made history. A young child who admires Obama may prefer "Obama's version" over the true address that impacted our nation, as if there is a choice.

There is no choice. To give an option is to rewrite history and that is Orwellian.


ETA - Most specifically, to rewrite history to eliminate someone - in this case, God - is Orwellian.









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Posted: 11/19/2013 6:44:25 PM
Before this went off topic, luvspaper posted a snippet from the hearings today. It is amazingly terrifying, the things that came out today. The website (which is really supposed to be the portal for the whole shebang, much more than a "website" is only 30-40% complete! They don't even have the component for paying the insurers working!! On top of that, the security component is horrifyingly inadequate, and the four experts/ hackers that testified said that they don't think it can ever be secured.
I just heard one of them say that this site has over 500 million lines of code already. In comparison, windows OS has about 50 million. Not one of them think there is any way to secure this site and protect our information. And don't think u are safe if you call the 800# instead of going online, because your infor still has to be entered thru the same portal!!

If you give any information to anyone associated with the exchange, you are asking to have your identity stolen, and you will have zero recourse, no one to hold accountable.






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leftturnonly
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Posted: 11/19/2013 7:07:47 PM

BTW..... Today is the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. President Obama was asked to attend well over a year ago.

Where is he today?



He's busy dealing with the website problems. No. I'm not being snarky. That is what senior adviser, Dan Pfeiffer offered by way of an explanation.


Not one of them think there is any way to secure this site and protect our information.


SMH






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Posted: 11/20/2013 9:11:23 AM

Was it a deliberate lie or a blunder on the White House's part. Did the White House/President deliberately set out to mislead the American People or did they not do their homework and make a blunder?


Are you just trying to be argumentative, or is this really how you feel? I tend to stay out of political discussions, but given these two options, I'd rather know that he lied than the entire white house made THAT BIG of a 'blunder' over the President's major campaign platform. Good gracious. If they could have an oversight this big over something that he basically ran an entire campaign on, I'd hate to see what else was slipping through the cracks.


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Posted: 11/20/2013 2:02:37 PM

Burns requested that President Obama read the 'Nicolay Version' of the Address,

Well that would be one thing if it was in fact all someone else's doing and if he hadn't done it all on his own before. He left "endowed by their Creator" out of The Declaration of Independence. It was reported in 2010 that he did that at least 2 separate times. I don't think Burns was there requesting he do it then too.
Crickets.






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Posted: 11/20/2013 2:08:44 PM

Here is the site explaining all the different versions. It is not some big conspiracy to take god out of anything. Much ado about nothing.



But it's been so delicious and entertaining to read the outrage.

Sarah - Please don't let your facts get in the way of some well placed outrage, that's no damn fun.

Actually, American Constitution Society for Law and Policy, an influential organization whose boardmembers include former New York Times Supreme Court reporter Linda Greenhouse, controversial Obama judicial nominee Goodwin Liu, former New York governor Mario Cuomo, former solicitors general Drew Days and Walter Dellinger, and former attorney general Janet Reno printed a pocket sized version of our fundamental documents, including the Gettysburg Address that did exactly that.
More crickets.






Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK JR

Sarah*H
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Posted: 11/20/2013 2:13:18 PM

Burns requested that President Obama read the 'Nicolay Version' of the Address,

Well that would be one thing if it was in fact all someone else's doing and if he hadn't done it all on his own before. He left "endowed by their Creator" out of The Declaration of Independence. It was reported in 2010 that he did that at least 2 separate times. I don't think Burns was there requesting he do it then too.
Crickets.



It's not "crickets" because you're right or have convinced anyone, it's crickets because a) it's nonsensical b ) very few people care and c) you'll just google more ridiculous stuff from right wing media and keep this thread going ad nauseum.

Now I've broken my own rule by responding.

The actual truth with the "endowed by the creator" nonsense.

And here is a handy dandy video compilation of him saying it: Link

Thomas Jefferson rewrote the whole Bible taking out all references to the resurrection, miracles and divinity of Jesus, why don't you worry about him for awhile instead?



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Posted: 11/20/2013 2:30:21 PM
Point taken, Sarah.






Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK JR

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Posted: 11/20/2013 3:09:35 PM
I am really confused as to how many people here know exactly which version, word for word, was given at at ceremony 150 years ago. After all, there was no video or audio recording, no stenographer - people just made notes.


Moreover, you now give people the option to prefer "Obama's version" over the true version - the one that made history.

Please help me understand how a version of the Address written in President Lincoln's own hand is considered "Obama's version."

BTW, I can't speak for Mrs. Tyler's class, but in my history class, we absolutely study the different versions of documents. We also discuss the differences between a document written for publication and a speech.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

Fraidyscrapper
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Posted: 11/20/2013 3:19:06 PM
Enough, not crickets from me - I just hadn't gotten there yet. And since I don't really see a conspiracy in two unrelated incidents and a highly selective version of history, there's not much to address. Talking points are talking points for a reason, though, so I understand.


I tend to find value in upholding those important ceremonies honoring the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of Americans. And I would have thought that sacrifice would be a little more appreciated by this president in particular.
I appreciate commemorations and ceremony as well. But I understand that President Taft is the only president to have attended the anniversary ceremonies, so I don't suppose it's fair of me to create a new requirement for attendance.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

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Posted: 11/20/2013 3:38:13 PM

Enough, not crickets from me - I just hadn't gotten there yet.
It wasn't in response to you, Fraidyscrapper.







Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK JR

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Posted: 11/20/2013 3:47:03 PM

Thomas Jefferson rewrote the whole Bible taking out all references to the resurrection, miracles and divinity of Jesus, why don't you worry about him for awhile instead?


Because it's not used or put forth as an accurate or educational version of the real thing?


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Posted: 11/20/2013 4:00:33 PM
i find the emphasis on obama not being at the gettysburg anniversary to be super odd.. "especially" this president? why? his family weren't slaves



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Posted: 11/20/2013 5:20:08 PM

BTW..... Today is the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address.



Another interesting tidbit that I heard on the radio today. I haven't checked sources, but it was suggested that on the 100th anniversary of the Gettysburg address, John F Kennedy was invited to speak. He declined, choosing to go to Dallas instead. And the rest, as they say, is history.


OMG.




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Posted: 11/20/2013 6:28:47 PM

Please help me understand how a version of the Address written in President Lincoln's own hand is considered "Obama's version."


Certainly.

The day and the setting was November 19, 1863 in a solemn dedication of the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, PA.

If you go to the Gettysburg battlefield today, you may find great mists rising off the land and reminders everywhere of the terrible price in lives paid at that spot. Personally, I have found it impossible to not be humbled and reflective when I have visited the site nearly a century and a half after the fact.

4 and a half months after the battle, when this dedication took place, the scars must have still been fresh. It must have been a terrible sight even after the bodies had been removed.

The dedication was given as the war between brothers continued. Lincoln's political career was on the line. His second term as president was in jeopardy of never happening.

My own great-grandfather - a Pennsylvania farmer in his 40's - enlisted in a group of Pennsylvanians to help the union in support of Lincoln's re-election in the later part of 1863. Within a couple of months, this unit was in a horrific battle and my great-grandfather, along with many, many others, were captured in September, not too long before the Battle of Gettysburg. (ETA - I think I have the year wrong. He joined after Gettysburg... during the Pennsylvania effort to have Lincoln re-elected.)

Gettysburg is not part of the South. It was a significant advancement of the Rebel forces into the North, which meant a real threat of escalation of the war to parts of the country that had been safe while the Union was losing men by the tens of thousands.

Lincoln could have been arrogant. He could have trumpeted the Union win and ridiculed the Rebels. He did none of those things. In fact, his address is as significant for what he did not say as for what he did.


What he did say rose above all pettiness by paying true homage to those American lives lost while remaining true to our founding ideals.

The main speaker of the day, Edward Everett, spoke for two hours prior to Lincoln. Afterwards, he sent Lincoln a note that included this praise:

"I should be glad, if I could flatter myself that I came as near to the central idea of the occasion, in two hours, as you did in two minutes."

He complimented the president on the "eloquent simplicity & appropriateness" of his remarks. link

Every word was significant in Lincoln's delivered address. Not least among those words was the acknowledgement that we are a land living together under God, no matter the present bitterness.

See, that's something that was extremely important to both armies. Both the South and the North held a belief in God to be of highest importance to their very existence. They disagreed on what was the best way for individuals to live their lives in freedom and what were the limits the government could impose on those freedoms, but universally, they believed in God.


Considering the impact that Lincoln's delivered address made, a voice that still resonates 150 years later, it is most probable to credit the inclusion of God in his speech. The speech would not have been as memorable for all without that inclusion of the God that meant so much to both sides.

The Lincoln Memorial has this inscribed on its walls, and this is the version that we reflect on today.


FOUR SCORE AND SEVEN YEARS AGO OUR FATHERS BROUGHT FORTH ON THIS CONTINENT A NEW NATION CONCEIVED IN LIBERTY AND DEDICATED TO THE PROPOSITION THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL *

NOW WE ARE ENGAGED IN A GREAT CIVIL WAR TESTING WHETHER THAT NATION OR ANY NATION SO CONCEIVED AND SO DEDICATED CAN LONG ENDURE * WE ARE MET ON A GREAT BATTLEFIELD OF THAT WAR * WE HAVE COME TO DEDICATE A PORTION OF THAT FIELD AS A FINAL RESTING PLACE FOR THOSE WHO HERE GAVE THEIR LIVES THAT THAT NATION MIGHT LIVE * IT IS ALTOGETHER FITTING AND PROPER THAT WE SHOULD DO THIS * BUT IN A LARGER SENSE WE CAN NOT DEDICATE~WE CAN NOT CONSECRATE~WE CAN NOT HALLOW~THIS GROUND * THE BRAVE MEN LIVING AND DEAD WHO STRUGGLED HERE HAVE CONSECRATED IT FAR ABOVE OUR POOR POWER TO ADD OR DETRACT * THE WORLD WILL LITTLE NOTE NOR LONG REMEMBER WHAT WE SAY HERE BUT IT CAN NEVER FORGET WHAT THEY DID HERE * IT IS FOR US THE LIVING RATHER TO BE DEDICATED HERE TO THE UNFINISHED WORK WHICH THEY WHO FOUGHT HERE HAVE THUS FAR SO NOBLY ADVANCED * IT IS RATHER FOR US TO BE HERE DEDICATED TO THE GREAT TASK REMAINING BEFORE US~THAT FROM THESE HONORED DEAD WE TAKE INCREASED DEVOTION TO THAT CAUSE FOR WHICH THEY GAVE THE LAST FULL MEASURE OF DEVOTION~THAT WE HERE HIGHLY RESOLVE THAT THESE DEAD SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN~THAT THIS NATION UNDER GOD SHALL HAVE A NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM~AND THAT GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THE EARTH*


link


Our country is once again a torn nation from within. It is a very unsettling time for America. It is appropriate to remember the Gettysburg Address, and it would have been appropriate for the sitting President of the United States to have been recorded giving the version most likely heard by those standing among the desolation of a battlefield where the recent combined casualties of Americans numbered between 45,000 and 51,000 souls.


But that's not what is recorded. What is recorded is President Obama leaving God out.

Young children don't know there are different words inscribed at the Memorial dedicated to Lincoln. They don't know that above all else, the Americans who fought brother against brother over ideals equally valued a belief in God at the highest of their beliefs. They don't know any history until they are taught.

I can see this being pulled out of Ken Burns' documentary in an honest and sincere effort by teachers to make history interesting for their students. So, the very first time that some children may hear this monumentally historically important Gettysburg Address will be this recording of this President - this first black president - of the United States.... and no acknowledgement to God is included.

That is incredibly sad and completely misleading to the young minds who are most impressionable.








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Posted: 11/20/2013 6:55:52 PM

I can see this being pulled out of Ken Burns' documentary in an honest and sincere effort by teachers to make history interesting for their students. So, the very first time that some children may hear this monumentally historically important Gettysburg Address will be this recording of this President - this first black president - of the United States.... and no acknowledgement to God is included.

That is incredibly sad and completely misleading to the young minds who are most impressionable.




and IF said children are properly educated with the fact that the documentary is about the process President Lincoln went through in writing that important address and that President Obama was asked by the filmmaker to read the original draft, then I doubt that it would be considered "incredibly sad and completely misleading".






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Posted: 11/20/2013 7:01:06 PM

and IF said children are properly educated with the fact that the documentary is about the process President Lincoln went through in writing that important address and that President Obama was asked by the filmmaker to read the original draft, then I doubt that it would be considered "incredibly sad and completely misleading".


Maybe so.

Maybe not.

I don't have any qualms about students learning about other drafts and the history behind an address.

But this is the President speaking, not some Joe off the sidewalk. People remember what he says because of who he is. They do not remember all the qualifiers - for example, that this was a draft and not the address - as time goes on.

It's not a small point considering that the history of the men who fought and died included this universal belief in God.

Whether all individuals believed or not, the units could be extremely religious.

It is not an aside to the story. It is a major component of the story, and one that the President's voice could lend a significant plus to.


ETA - Of course, the idea that you would consider agreeing with me on anything, no matter how valid a point I make, isn't something I hold my breath over in anticipation.






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Posted: 11/20/2013 8:32:53 PM
LTO, I have no idea why you chose to quote at length some other sources for me. I suppose I should thank you - that you must have thought me ignorant of the significance of the address and you wanted to mend that for me. That wasn't my question at all. I wanted to know why you thought it appropriate to rename this version for President Obama. I'm not understanding how your quotes address that at all.

I do think it's interesting to ask Burns why he chose to ask a sitting President to read a version that's not the one inscribed on the memorial. I would wonder if Burns - or the President - anticipated this dust up.

Once again, I would like to point out that none of us know exactly what the text of the delivered address was.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy

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Posted: 11/20/2013 9:03:21 PM
So saving this thread for posterity.


Tracey

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Posted: 11/20/2013 9:09:08 PM
LTO, that was beautiful.

L
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