Vaccinations... just found out a friend doesn't believe in them... what would be your thoughts?

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Posted 3/20/2014 by WorkingClassDog in NSBR Board
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hop2
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Posted: 3/21/2014 9:07:29 AM

The younger generations have never known that fear. I remember my Grandmother talking about her childhood and what it was like when someone in their small town came down with polio or the measles. She said it was surreal the way the town would almost completely shut down.

Yea seriously. Like the things you see in movies.

My uncle had polio in the 40's. The town pretty much shunned my dads whole family after my uncle came down with it "just in case". And my uncle had a 'mild' case. My father and aunt were allowed at school but they were pretty much ostracized and the school and teachers supported the ostracizing. The were at the end of a Polio outbreak and they were very tired of all the devastation, they pretty much didn't want it going thru town again. When my uncle was better, they ended up moving 'to the country' ( up state ) for about 1 1/2 years for my grandfathers job. When they came back they were accepted again, like nothing had happened. Now my uncle has out lived both my dad and his sister. He's about 82 now.

So yea my kids have had their vaccines.

And yes there are whole groups of people who do not 'believe' in vaccines and it has nothing to do with religion or autism. They think the whole vaccine 'thing' is a propaganda campaign to justify the existence of the CDC and big government control. polio The website I linked is an article on how the polio epidemic was hyped and falsified. How vaccines are the product of the CDC's need to exist and most diseases would 'die out' if allowed to run their course. They 'sound' semi scientific so people believe it. And that's just one website and/or article there are plenty more.

bear_mom
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Posted: 3/21/2014 9:08:04 AM

Yes, and welcome back, POLIO! You know, the disease that had been completely ERADICATED because of vaccines? Yeah, that one. SMDH.


I don't think Polio was ever completely eradicated worldwide. Maybe almost, but at least in Africa, it was still prevalent in the late 90's.

Oliquig
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Posted: 3/21/2014 9:11:29 AM
It was (polio) almost eradicated except for pockets in India and DRC Congo. Now there is fear of a regrowth in Syria as well.


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gottapeanow
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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:20:16 AM

And imo, calling it a parenting decision is the same as calling beating them with a belt a parenting decision.


Not even close to the same.

Beating a child with a belt could lead to the possible arrest of the parent.

That doesn't happen with a decision to vaccinate.

And my quote is worth reading. The government decided the claims were valid. And paid people because of it.

Lisa

WorkingClassDog
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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:27:28 AM
Thanks for all the replies and stories.. I read them all. And glad it didn't have to turn ugly for sure!! Glad to get some more light on all this...

She didn't use the term "I don't believe in vaccinations" ... I don't remember exactly how she put it.. but something to that affect... but anyways, thanks for discussing!

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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:31:04 AM
"My own mom remembers the cold fear she felt when it was found out someone in town came down with polio. That becomes a distant memory, something that our generation has not had to face. Until we have a loved one become crippled for life or die of a disease that was so preventable"

There is a polio like disease here in California right now.
They're calling it California Polio Like illness
At least 25 kids have come down with it and are being idealized by it. They will never regain the use of their limb but therapy is helping them try to strengthen them
It's very sad and extremely scary


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/23/polio-like-illness-california/5703827/



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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:52:26 AM
Out of curiosity, which religions don't allow vaccines, does anyone know?


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hop2
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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:57:47 AM
Christian Scientist.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 3/21/2014 11:59:05 AM

And my quote is worth reading. The government decided the claims were valid. And paid people because of it.


I don't think any parent who has vaccinated their child is unaware that there are potential side effects. I know my pediatrician discusses them and gives me a nifty little handout every single time. A small number of children are going to have an adverse reaction and the vast majority of those are going to be mild. The government has never and would never claim that it's 100% safe - which is why there is a fund to compensate children from adverse reactions. The reality is that the health risks of the disease are still vastly more dangerous than the minuscule chance of an adverse reaction.

Unfortunately a minority of parents have decided that they will rely on the herd immunity and not vaccinated THEIR children. They can then rely on everyone else risking the tiny chance of an adverse reaction. As a higher and higher percentage of parents make the choice, the disease rates increase - which is why we're currently seeing measles rates at their highest level in decades.

There were 139 cases of pertussis in our school district last year. The real tragedy is the families with children who are too young to be fully vaccinated or are part of the percentage who were vaccinated, but are still not fully immunized. An infant spent 6 weeks in the hospital after contracting pertussis before she could be vaccinated.


LeaP
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Posted: 3/21/2014 12:15:48 PM
Growing up in Italy I saw first hand the lifelong handicaps from childhood diseases. My mother had scarlet fever (as well as measles, mumps and who knows what else) and she remembers the doctor telling her parents that it was likely she would not wake up. Vaccinations were miraculous for her generation.

Both of my children are fully immunized. We live in Los Angeles. There are a lot of people here coming and going from all over the world. I feel the likelihood of exposure to a disease like Hepatitis A is much higher here than in other parts of the country. I have not proof as to whether this is the case, but I do know that both kids have been exposed to swine flu, whooping cough and chicken pox without being infected. I'm particularly grateful for avoiding whooping cough, it lasted several weeks in the children who had it. For the record, one family was anti-vax and 3 of the 4 children got it. The other kid was vaccinated and still got sick.

The issue of herd immunity has been in the news a lot recently. I hope people take heed. It is a shame that there are still measles outbreaks. I would hate to see polio come back.

cropduster
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Posted: 3/21/2014 12:17:54 PM

Posted: 3/21/2014 11:52:26 AM
Out of curiosity, which religions don't allow vaccines, does anyone know?



I believe Jehovah's Witness and Christian Scientists and Church of Scientology. I could not tell you the name of the church my cousins joined. Although my aunt seems to think it's some kind of cult. I believe it may be a similar church as the Duggars belong to. They homeschool, she wears long skirts and does not cut her hair and they do not believe in birth control among other lifestyle changes they have made since joining this church. Not that I have anything against their practices. With the exemption of no vaccines. I'm just stating what I've observed.


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moveablefeast
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Posted: 3/21/2014 12:35:36 PM

Out of curiosity, which religions don't allow vaccines, does anyone know?


There's also a contingent of evangelicals that aren't vaccinating for a variety of reasons.

Darcy_Collins
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Posted: 3/21/2014 12:36:44 PM
The vast majority of the parents in this area who opt out are not part of any organized religion. They are "granola" parents. No TV, no GMOs type. Their rationale is why expose your child to vaccines and risk side effects when the risk of contracting the disease is low.




KristinL16
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Posted: 3/21/2014 2:35:57 PM
I agree with those who said that our generation and younger do not know the damage that these diseases can cause. My dad, an aunt and an uncle (they are not related to each other except by marriage, but did grow up in the same town in the same time frame) all had polio. My dad had a slight limp but the aunt and uncle have more serious disabilities due to it.

I worry that because of the people not vaccinating, we will now not only have more outbreaks of diseases that we haven't seen for a long time, but that the vaccines will lose their effectiveness due to the strains mutating.



SDeven
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Posted: 3/21/2014 2:38:00 PM
I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.






scrappower
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Posted: 3/21/2014 2:53:40 PM

I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.









Where has anyone said that?

ThreeCs
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Posted: 3/21/2014 2:57:59 PM
I do believe in vaccinations. I think too many are given to very very small kids in a short period of time. I did a delayed vaccination schedule for my twins and it has worked for me.

Oh, I have a child with autism, and he had not received the MMR vaccination before his diagnosis. I don't think vaccines cause autism.

not2peased
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Posted: 3/21/2014 3:10:43 PM

I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.


where did anyone say that?


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Posted: 3/21/2014 3:12:01 PM

I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.


Your snark aside, what do you think is the best solution?



tamhugh
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Posted: 3/21/2014 3:21:36 PM
I had an adverse reaction to the measles vaccine as a child and almost died. It was back in the 1960s when it wasn't the MMR combo vaccine. I was not able to receive boosters until I was going away to college and the vaccine had changed. I always had a medical waiver for it in the public schools. My mother never dreamt of not giving me (or my siblings) the rest of our vaccinations. She had an aunt that developed measles as an infant and was institutionalized because of severe brain damage. She said she always remembered going to visit her when she was young and having a fear of the measles because of it.

Have any of you ever read Natalie Norton's blog posts about her little boy who died from whooping cough? It is heartbreaking. As an aunt of a little boy with no immune system, it terrifies me how many people don't vaccinate now. If I knew someone's children were not vaccinated, I would have to be very cautious of having them in my home if I knew my nephew would be visiting soon.

Roundtwo
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Posted: 3/21/2014 3:57:24 PM

Out of curiosity, which religions don't allow vaccines, does anyone know?
Some branches of the Dutch Reformed church don't vaccinate either.


I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.
I'm not really sure what your point is but as one of the ones who had an adverse reaction to a vaccination and still living with the fallout, I think that it is a small price to pay for the good of the majority. Of course I wish it hadn't happened but I am far happier living with my bit of disability than with people living in fear of diseases such as polio and measles striking down hundreds of otherwise healthy people.

And even though I live with the result of an adverse reaction to a vaccine, my kids are fully vaccinated.



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lucyg819
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Posted: 3/21/2014 4:17:45 PM

I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.


Your snark aside, what do you think is the best solution?

I will expand on Sarah's question. In a largely unvaccinated population (and we seem to be headed in that direction as more and more people see vaccinations as an issue, for whatever reason), children would be far more likely to die or suffer lifelong effects from one of these horrific diseases than any damage they might be subject to from an actual vaccination.

So is it better to risk a more likely chance of death or disability in place of a less likely chance? Because that's where the anti-vax people are leading us.

To say nothing about the innocent victims (children too young to be vaccinated; older kids and adults who were vaccinated but still get sick) when an unvaccinated-by-choice person contracts the disease and spreads it around the community.


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redboots
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Posted: 3/21/2014 4:59:10 PM

I guess those children who have been harmed by vaccines should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of keeping all those other children safe. Small price to pay.

Yeah right.


Who said this?

Also, if this is true, then so is the inverse: I guess the immunocompromised should just suck it up and consider themselves the cost of your choice not to vaccinate your child (which is generally based on very little science, in my experience).

Actually, it isn't just the immunocompromised you are putting at risk when you choose not to vaccinate. You are putting the entire population at risk by making this choice, so I guess you feel that your OPINION (which is, again, generally not backed by much scientific evidence) is more important than the health of the general population.

Yeah, right, indeed.

OhSnapPea
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Posted: 3/21/2014 5:13:39 PM
If your child is vaccinated, then there should be NO worry whatsoever.

If you have enough faith in vaccines, then you should feel confident that your child is completely safe if exposed to the diseases.


redboots
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Posted: 3/21/2014 5:19:32 PM

If your child is vaccinated, then there should be NO worry whatsoever.

If you have enough faith in vaccines, then you should feel confident that your child is completely safe if exposed to the diseases.


You will note that the threat posed by unvaccinated individuals is to the IMMUNOCOMPROMISED, which means people who cannot be vaccinated (age, illness) or whose immune systems are compromised.

The ignorance and arrogance of anti-vaxxers is astounding and dangerous.

Scientific evidence will not change anti-vaxxer minds

SDeven
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Posted: 3/21/2014 5:34:38 PM
I'm not entirely sure what the answer is... But I am entirely sure that One hundred percent faith in our government's CDC is not the answer.

My children were both vaccinated according to the usual schedule. One of them is autistic. Is that related? I have no idea.

I stand by my original premise--that this is a private parenting matter.






Dalai Mama
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Posted: 3/21/2014 5:38:46 PM

If your child is vaccinated, then there should be NO worry whatsoever.

If you have enough faith in vaccines, then you should feel confident that your child is completely safe if exposed to the diseases.
I should? Should I disregard science in favour of this 'faith' you describe? Math, probability, statistics? No immunization has 100% efficacy, and just because I greatly prefer my children's odds having had their vaccinations doesn't mean that I need to throw logic out the window.

ETA*

But I am entirely sure that One hundred percent faith in our government's CDC is not the answer.
I'm curious to whom this is directed because I have yet to see anyone here say that.


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gottapeanow
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:01:21 PM

The ignorance and arrogance of anti-vaxxers is astounding and dangerous.


There is solid and irrefutable scientific data to back up dangers related to vaccines.

I will repeat the stats and data from the federal government that I already posted.

The feds have paid out $2 billion since 1988 in vaccine-related claims. And for vaccines prior to 1988, they paid out $908 million.

The feds intentionally set aside money for adverse reactions to claims.

Parents have the right to make their own decisions about vaccines.

Lisa

redboots
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:08:08 PM
This is not a private matter because it impacts public health. It is no different than someone who knowingly infects others with HIV or other diseases. One's HIV status is a private matter UNTIL it impacts my health and safety.

Statistically, the adverse reactions caused by vaccines (real adverse reactions and not a supposed connection to another disorder of unknown origin) are minute compared to the risks of not vaccinating.

Of course, this is futile. Anti-vaxxers have decided that it's their right to expose me (I am immunocompromised) and others like me to potentially crippling and deadly illnesses. I suppose you think your right to not vaccinate trumps my right to live?

redboots
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:09:04 PM

There is solid and irrefutable scientific data to back up dangers related to vaccines.

I will repeat the stats and data from the federal government that I already posted.

The feds have paid out $2 billion since 1988 in vaccine-related claims. And for vaccines prior to 1988, they paid out $908 million.

The feds intentionally set aside money for adverse reactions to claims.

Parents have the right to make their own decisions about vaccines.



I would love links to this plethora of "solid, irrefutable scientific data to back up dangers related to vaccines."

Dalai Mama
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:11:31 PM

The feds intentionally set aside money for adverse reactions to claims.
Yes, they do that in hopes that access to vaccinations won't be high-jacked by litigation. Why did the government pay out claims? Because they're stupid (it's well-documented) and it costs them nothing to hand that money out because it isn't coming from their coffers.

But then, when scientists and bureaucrats disagree on matters of public health, as they did on most of the NVICP payouts, I tend to side with science.


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Dalai Mama
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:17:42 PM
FTR, redboots, she's not talking about scientific data. Or even anything remotely related to science. A government court has awarded 'damages' from a pool of money collected from vaccine companies much to the surprise of people who actually understand things like 'causal links.


Jo Mama

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Kelpea
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:27:39 PM

Yes, and welcome back, POLIO! You know, the disease that had been completely ERADICATED because of vaccines? Yeah, that one. SMDH.

Who am I going to believe: Jenny McCarthy and some other B-list actress whose name I cannot remember because she's so unimportant? Or my uncle, who is a microbiologist at the University of Washington? Yeah, I'm thinking the latter.



OMG..I couldn't have said it better. I think Jenny McCarthy did such a disservice to everyone spewing her crap. I think it is important to note that my son does have autism...and I do have a medical link between the vaccine and his autism. Would I sue...no...won't change anything....would I still vaccinate....yes, but with more knowledge could have possibly prevented with a vaccine with lower amounts of thimersol coupled with his weakened immune system due to nut allergy, etc.


I've actually some conversations online about whether or not she should be held accountable due to the damage she has caused regarding vaccinations. I have to agree; she should be held accountable in some way.



Sunshine36616
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:39:34 PM
As someone who suffered from whooping cough (affectionately known as "the whoop" around here), these people piss me off.

lucyg819
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Posted: 3/21/2014 6:41:19 PM


LUCYG
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OhSnapPea
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Posted: 3/21/2014 7:39:24 PM

Of course, this is futile. Anti-vaxxers have decided that it's their right to expose me (I am immunocompromised) and others like me to potentially crippling and deadly illnesses. I suppose you think your right to not vaccinate trumps my right to live?


I am sorry that you are immuno-compromised. That must be a daily challenge to deal with. But I hope you realize that un-vaxed people are not walking around carrying diseases. I think this is a huge misconception with some people.

FTR, I never meant to come across as arrogant or righteous in any way. Just tried answering the OP's question because she sounded pretty freaked out and uneducated about it.

Also, I love that we live in country that allows us freedom to make our own decisions based on our own level of education, religious beliefs and personal desires. I hope that never gets taken away from us.

catherinemartin
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Posted: 3/21/2014 7:45:58 PM
When I was 6 months old I came down with Spinal Meningitus (sp?) At the time children didn't get a shot for it until they were older I believe. As someone who has lived through a horrible disease that is now vaccinated against I am all for 'em.

lucyg819
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Posted: 3/21/2014 7:50:43 PM

But I hope you realize that un-vaxed people are not walking around carrying diseases.

Maybe not today. Give it time. It is foolish to think the "herd immunity" of the remainder of the (vaccinated) herd will protect the unvaccinated forever.


LUCYG
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KatieBPea
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Posted: 3/21/2014 8:38:30 PM
I have shared this here before, but is the child of someone who is a paraplegic as a result of childhood polio, my children have all been vaccinated. There was no question in my mind that they would be since I have seen firsthand the damages that these diseases can cause.

This generation seems to take for granted the protection that these vaccines bestow--vaccinated or not--and forget that there was a time that parents lived in fear that their children would die or be seriously damaged by diseases we routinely vaccinate for today.


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Posted: 3/21/2014 8:50:06 PM
It's sad and frustrating. 10 years ago I was involved with a group that was aggressively vaccinating children in Africa for polio - where just 30 years ago over 300,000 a year were being paralyzed by polio. Huge strides were being made and the polio rate plummeted to something like 50 cases in all of Africa. Then some dumbass decided to express their "opinion" that polio vaccines were linked to the spread of HIV and infertility. Vaccination rates plummeted and polio skyrocketed. Thousands of children were paralyzed. It took two decades to undo the harm.

*ingrid*
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Posted: 3/21/2014 8:54:17 PM

If I specifically knew someone wasn't vaccinated though I would protect myself by not being around them. For those that don't have an autoimmune disease it is just part of life for those of us with it. Yes we can be exposed in public but I won't knowingly expose myself on a regular basis to it.




This generation seems to take for granted the protection that these vaccines bestow--vaccinated or not--and forget that there was a time that parents lived in fear that their children would die or be seriously damaged by diseases we routinely vaccinate for today.



Scrappower and KatieB summed my feelings up perfectly. It's upsetting to me how misinformed the antivaxxers are and the damage they'll cause (or are causing) to society because of their beliefs.



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Posted: 3/21/2014 10:02:18 PM
The kidlet has all of her vaccinations except pertussis. Her doctor recommended against it. I am grateful to everyone else whose children have been immunized for that since she could not. I really would not like mandated vaccines even though I personally think we all should have them. I'm very uncomfortable with the government having that power over us. God only knows what they would decide to inject us with!



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Posts: 1,947
Layouts: 79

Posted: 3/21/2014 10:16:26 PM
There are some vaccines that I think are ridiculous and refuse for my kids, but I would never in a million years preach to anyone else about it, for or against.

This is a situation where I think each person has the right to decide for themselves, and it would not impact what I thought of my friend in any way, nor would it impact my decision to have my kids around her kids. That's just my own person thoughts on it!


Cheers,

Steph
IP Troll Tracker


firepaws
PeaNut

PeaNut 50,300
September 2002
Posts: 1,553
Layouts: 4
Loc: five min. from insanity

Posted: 3/21/2014 11:26:04 PM
For me the benefits out weigh the risks. At least at this point in time. Are they perfect? No Way. Yes I had mine all vaccinated.

When the Chicken Pox vacc. became available, my pediatrician recommend it. We had a long discussion about it as I was hesitant. He told me that it had been used in Europe for over 10 years. And he vacc. his own kids.
My dd did get Chicken Pox, but is was so mild and only lasted a few days.
I remember having a severe case of Chicken Pox. I still have some scars as a reminder.

A owner of a business I worked for didn't vacc her dd and she came down with Woop OMG that poor child went through hell. Not to mention she would bring her to work as of course the school wouldn't allow her in. I felt so bad for that poor kid.

Nanner
It only took 11 years

PeaNut 32,283
March 2002
Posts: 5,327
Layouts: 0
Loc: Alberta

Posted: 3/22/2014 8:54:05 PM
A friend just posted this on facebook:

3 Year old Boy



Nancy


OCLittleFlower
BucketHead

PeaNut 541,890
February 2012
Posts: 697
Layouts: 38
Loc: Orange County, CA

Posted: 3/23/2014 2:47:35 AM
I don't believe that vaccines cause autism, but I am skeptical about some vaccines. We're a selective vaccine family, and after my adverse reaction to the tetanus vaccine at age 18, I no longer vaccinate myself at all (they never figured out if I reacted to the antibodies or the carrier solution but the dizzy spells for a year and a half were scary, to say the least).

Many of my friends and my DH's friends are no vaccine families, others are selective.

We are pro-life and request alternatives to vaccines developed using fetal cell lines wherever possible.


Cupcake ipsum dolor sit.

voltagain
OklaPhoma

PeaNut 18,334
July 2001
Posts: 38,143
Layouts: 15
Loc: State of cultural confusion. Yeehaw and Aloha have collided!

Posted: 3/23/2014 3:12:55 AM
Following up on OClittleflower's comment. A lot of evangelical Christians are going the anti vax route due to ethical conerns on the use of human tissue
where vaccinations originate
It isn't just therimsol that worries some


What Your Kit Lens Can Do For You

Canon 60d, Canon 24-70mm 2.8L, Canon 70-200mm 2.8L, 50mm 1.8, 28-80, 75-300mm and Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro

slkmommy
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 266,020
June 2006
Posts: 2,743
Layouts: 0
Loc: freedom, pa

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:41:28 AM
The thing is...if I had to interview every single family of potential friends for my kids - they'd have grown up friendless

I vaccinated. It was the norm 20 years ago. Much like circumcision. And I did not worry when they were in the playroom at the grocery store....or around other kids at parks.

You could worry...you can ask....but seriously I could only tell you one person that I know that for sure vaccinated her kids because she is adamant that her daughter developed autism from them.

I'm in the camp of doing the best I know how and trust others do their best.

My boys are 20 and 19. My oldest is dating a girl that I believe will not vaccinate her children when she has them. Although I won't push...I'll tell her my opinion if asked (should things continue down their relationship path)

As naturally curious (read that as totally nosey) as I am, I am really a to each their own on parenting decisions



sherri

Like my opinion really counts anyway...
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lucyg819
pearl-clutching nitpicker

PeaNut 201,774
April 2005
Posts: 16,721
Layouts: 15
Loc: gone to chemo with BethAnne

Posted: 3/23/2014 11:07:34 AM
I'm kind of astonished at the number of people who see this as just another private parenting decision, like circumcision.

Circumcision doesn't affect the health of the people around you. Vaccinating does.


LUCYG
northern california

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell



Nanner
It only took 11 years

PeaNut 32,283
March 2002
Posts: 5,327
Layouts: 0
Loc: Alberta

Posted: 3/23/2014 12:25:31 PM

I'm kind of astonished at the number of people who see this as just another private parenting decision, like circumcision.

Circumcision doesn't affect the health of the people around you. Vaccinating does.


Exactly!


Nancy

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