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Current Thread:

Daycare's milestones for my two year old. Am I wrong?
Post ReplyPost New TopicPosted 2/7/2013 by Sierramoon in NSBR Board
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Sierramoon
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Posted: 2/7/2013 8:58:40 PM
My youngest will be three this month. His daycare will not move him to the three year old class until he is fully potty trained and able to dress himself with no help. I personally believe that kids will potty train when they are ready and I have no real time line for him dressing himself. Whether he moves to the next class or not on time doesn't matter to me. Obviously, the daycare and I disagree.

The problem is, they won't shut up about it. They constantly tell me how he needs to be fully potty trained and able to dress himself. Ok, I get it! DS is bigger than all of the kids. He will be three next week and weighs 45 pounds and he is taller than the other kids. So I guess that is why they keep mentioning these rules to me.

From my point of view, these are THEIR rules, not mine. So it's THEIR problem that DS can't move to the next class. He sits on the potty at home but he is reluctant. I help him dress every morning. I just don't have time to let him dress himself in the morning.

Anyway, I'm starting to feel pissy about all of these reminders. Am I wrong? Is my son so far behind the other kids that it should be a problem?




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TXDancermom
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:02:10 PM
If you are that much in disagreement with them, maybe you need to find another caregiver?


Sierramoon
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:02:52 PM

If you are that much in disagreement with them, maybe you need to find another caregiver?



I agree




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CrazyHare
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:02:59 PM
Sorry, but they have rules. If they don't fit your family, then it's time for you to make other arrangements or get on their program.


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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:05:38 PM
Then it's time to sit down and have a meeting. Explain that you are ok with him staying in the twos until he's trained. They may see it as 'move one from twos to threes, bump one up from ones, and have room for another baby' issue.




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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:09:38 PM
If it bothers you that much, you need to find other arrangements.

Also, at some point, they may say he needs to be potty trained by X date or you will either have to pay more or he will need to find another center.


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CreativeEngineer
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:12:31 PM
Maybe it's a safety issue with him being so much bigger than the other kids.





pudgy_groundhog
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:17:00 PM
At my daughter's daycare they worked pretty hard at having the kids potty trained before moving to the three year old room, but it wasn't a rule set in stone. I know there were kids who weren't fully trained in the three year old room (I don't think any of the kids were in diapers, maybe pullups and there might have been accidents, but not all the kids were bomb proof on the potty training). It seems like a pretty strict rule to me, but obviously it is their rule and they have their reasons (are they not certified or whatever to help with bathroom stuff in that room?).

I would set up a meeting to talk about it - possible solutions, a plan, etc. to be on the same page. If you are happy with the daycare otherwise, I would try to work it out before leaving, but in the end you might have to seek other care.

If your son's friends start moving to the next room and he doesn't go, will that act as an extra motivator?




sa27
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:19:51 PM
My DS was a late potty trainer. Pee he had down, poop scared him. I had pressure from multiple sides (family, friends, etc) to force him to become fully trained. I listened to my gut and was laid back about it. I decided he wasn't going to go to college using a diaper and if he did, he'd be on his own for changing by that time. My son went to daycare where my sister works and she was his teacher. DS was not the only one not trained in her class and she would tell them, as she was changing their diapers, "Ms. XYZ doesn't change diapers." Not in a mean way, but just stating a fact. I finally told her there was no rule about potty training ages at her center, it's her job, she does change diapers, and to quit saying it to DS. It was a bit awkward, but she did stop.

I would meet with the daycare staff and see if they are comfortable backing off. If they can't/won't, then I would look at finding a new provider. I would have changed providers if my sister hadn't stopped saying it to DS and he showed issues from it. The change could cause stress for your DS, but so could being constantly told he had to hurry up and use the toilet.

Your ds does sound bigger than the other kids (my 7.5 year old weighs 38 lbs, my 5.5 year old weighs 28 lbs) but if he isn't hitting/causing other issues, what's it matter? My kids are always the smallest. Doesn't bother them and it doesn't bother me

sa27
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:20:10 PM
My DS was a late potty trainer. Pee he had down, poop scared him. I had pressure from multiple sides (family, friends, etc) to force him to become fully trained. I listened to my gut and was laid back about it. I decided he wasn't going to go to college using a diaper and if he did, he'd be on his own for changing by that time. My son went to daycare where my sister works and she was his teacher. DS was not the only one not trained in her class and she would tell them, as she was changing their diapers, "Ms. XYZ doesn't change diapers." Not in a mean way, but just stating a fact. I finally told her there was no rule about potty training ages at her center, it's her job, she does change diapers, and to quit saying it to DS. It was a bit awkward, but she did stop.

I would meet with the daycare staff and see if they are comfortable backing off. If they can't/won't, then I would look at finding a new provider. I would have changed providers if my sister hadn't stopped saying it to DS and he showed issues from it. The change could cause stress for your DS, but so could being constantly told he had to hurry up and use the toilet.

Your ds does sound bigger than the other kids (my 7.5 year old weighs 38 lbs, my 5.5 year old weighs 28 lbs) but if he isn't hitting/causing other issues, what's it matter? My kids are always the smallest. Doesn't bother them and it doesn't bother me

Sierramoon
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:22:46 PM
I'm thinking it's a safety issue as well.

Is it normal to expect a 3 year old to be fully potty trained and to be able to fully dress with no help? I'm a pretty laid back mom as far as milestones go so this seem excessive.




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mom2kbs
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:23:23 PM
If it is a state licensed program they probably have rules to follow. All of our school district three classrooms require the same thing.

It is a big deal to them because they deal with it all day. By three he should be able to dress himself for the most part and actively be potty training. It is a developmentally appropriate expectation.

His friends will move on and he will not. I would be actively working with my daycare not against them. You might not care if he doesn't move on but that is hindering his development. The social development between a young two and your son is quite different.

I understand that in the morning you are rushed but getting up an extra 10 minutes or getting him up an extra ten minutes now in the long run gives you more time and him the independence and self help skills he needs.

I do think you are wrong. These are skills he should be able to do and you need to let him learn them. As moms we want to help and keep them little but he can do it and so can you!

Good Luck!

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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:28:43 PM
I know plenty of newly turned 3 year olds who are fully potty trained zoned can dress themselves. Not excessive demands at all. Very reasonable.

I also have an extensive background in child development. It's not an unreasonable demand at all.



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IleneTell
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:32:02 PM
This is a good opportunity to have a meeting with them. Tell them you're motivated to work on these things. They need to tell you what they have been doing to work on it at daycare so you can implement the same system at home. Ask them if they have suggestions they can offer on how you can work together to make this happen.



KatieBPea
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:37:31 PM
If you have liked your center, your son's caregivers and their overall philosophy until now, I would take a step back and reconsider your irritation.

Sometimes things like this can make you feel judged, but be objective and realize that they have your son's best interest at heart, too.

I think sitting down with someone from the center and discussing how you can work on this together is a great idea.


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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:44:34 PM
I'm in a preschool context, not a daycare context, but we also require that the threes be potty trained to be in a threes class. That part doesn't bother me too much.

Some threes can dress themselves all the way, others need help here and there - I have K's in my school who still need help getting their coats on to go outside. So I think that rule is a bit too strict.

The nagging would bother me, too. They know he isn't ready by their guidelines. He will mature a lot, a lot, a lot in the year to come. He's probably doing just fine and I think putting the pressure on because he is big is not helpful - no need to push too hard. He's only three.

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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:45:08 PM
I felt like that with my daughter's teachers about her binky. Seriously?! Her 19 year old teachers were giving me parenting guidelines?

But then, I stopped and thought about it objectively. As a librarian, sometimes I'm frustrated when parents don't follow through on things or understand what makes a child a better reader. Why would I not seriously consider the professional advice of her teachers? I don't spend 8 hours a day with a variety of two year olds- they do.

Maybe you need to remove the emotion from it, and see if you can look at it objectively.



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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:45:33 PM
It sounds like the two-year old room isn't the best fit for your son, and that is why the center is pushing you to help him reach the developmentally-appropriate milestones to move up to the next class.

I agree that kids will potty train and reach other milestones when they are ready, but it sounds like you might be withholding the opportunity for him to learn to do more for himself. Unless he is actively fighting potty training, you should be actively encouraging in using the bathroom and in dressing himself, too.

These might be their rules, but they are also societal norms.

Sierramoon
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:46:40 PM
Hmmmm Ok, thanks everyone. I do feel a little judged. I didn't realize that until now. But I now see that their rules are not unreasonable.




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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:57:11 PM
I think their rules are reasonable. My kids were potty-trained at 3 and could dress themselves for the most part. That seems to be the guidelines at most day cares, according to moms I know.

KatieBPea
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Posted: 2/7/2013 9:57:40 PM
Best of luck! And kudos to you for being so open to advice.


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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:01:39 PM
Sorry! Didn't mean to make you feel judged. It is hard when you are having an online "conversation." If we were friends in real life, I could couch any advice by saying something like, "You are a good mom, and know that you love your kids, but maybe you should give the potty training a bigger push."

((((((HUGS))))))

Susie Pea
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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:07:29 PM

Is it normal to expect a 3 year old to be fully potty trained and to be able to fully dress with no help? I'm a pretty laid back mom as far as milestones go so this seem excessive.


The preschool that my children attended had a requirement that children must be fully potty trained before they could attend.
I don't think your daycare is being unreasonable. That being said, I have have seen several friends with soon to be 3 year olds rush to get their child potty trained so that the could go to preschool.


***Kate***
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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:07:39 PM
I hope I didn't sound judge-y either- I meant it as, yeah, I totally know how you feel!! I was sure it was going to be a disaster, but seriously- hardly a peep out of her! They were right, I was wrong...



BudgetMama
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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:30:51 PM
I think it's a pretty ridiculous and foolish notion to think that every child should be potty trained by the age of 3, especially a boy. Maybe by the age of 4. If it's important to them then THEY can teach him those things. Or, find a new daycare where they accept your child for who his is and how he learns.

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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:39:12 PM
Part of the reason for that is that the three year old room is set up differently--no changing stations, etc. I'm guessing, too, that the curriculum is set up so that it's tough for the teacher or the aide to take time out to change diapers, etc. I taught in a three year old class and the children were expected to be done with potty training. Of course, we had the occasional accidents, but if we'd taken time to change diapers all day, even for one child, it was a drain on the learning activities we did.

I think you should look at it as an exciting thing for your son to be able to move up. As someone else mentioned, the difference between a young two year old and a three year old is pretty significant. He'll have new challenges and growing experiences that he won't get in the class with the younger kids. Also, socially, he'll have better conversations with peers and begin to really make friends. You'll really be happy you did it!


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Posted: 2/7/2013 11:14:27 PM
This is a pretty regional thing in my experience.
When taught 3's in private preschool, they didn't have to be trained. The teachers spent some time taking the younger 3's to the bathroom. We didn't deal with pullups because of the problems changing poops. We did use paper diapers, but then changed to cloth for all children that needed them.

I'm not sure these days that CA state preschools have these regulations about 3!s needing to be trained.

Also, if preschools have all children eligible to be enrolled, they need to deal with individual childrens development. There is a wide range of "normal" when it comes to milestones, and as was stated, it takes boys longer to potty train. ( generally)-

If the preschool has these kind of rules about potty training, what do they do about children that are having speech delays or social delays ?

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Posted: 2/7/2013 11:14:53 PM
I'll admit it. This would make me pissy too. Yes, I would be working towards these goals. However, it would still annoy me if they were constantly bringing it up. I'd ask them if they had any tips, suggestions, ideas each time they brought it up.

I don't think your son sounds like he is behind. Some kids take a little longer to potty train & pushing it can turn it into a power struggle. I'd be curious to know the average age for potty training. I would guess it's around 3. FWIW, the Milestone Chart on babycenter.com lists "gets dressed without help" as an advanced skill that only a few kids can do between 31-36 months.

I wonder if it's more a matter of socially and academically he's ready for the older class. I had a coworker who's little girl at 2 1/2 was ready in those areas & her daycare really pushed her to potty train because they wanted to move her to a room for those reasons. She just wasn't ready for potty training yet though.




renateb
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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:00:48 AM
I've worked with children that age for over 10 years now. From my experience, just turned or turning 3 year old often are not potty trained, especially boys. Since your son is at the high end of his height/weight for his age, he looks older than he is and for that reason, the caregivers might just be "forgetting" he isn't even 3 yet. I am positive they have had many 3 year olds that have not yet been potty trained.

Could it be that they have more room in their 3 year old program and want him to move to that class as soon as possible so open up a spot in the younger room? Just a thought why they might be pressuring you.

lindywholoveskids
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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:07:32 AM
Good point- they may not be putting the children's needs or developmental levels first at all.

redboots
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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:17:33 AM
OP, I commend you for taking a step back and hearing the good advice you were given

Go with your gut. If you feel that your son is genuinely not ready for the milestones the daycare seems set on, it might be best to find a new daycare. If you like the place, however, and your son is happy, you might want to work with the school and try to help him meet those milestones with your gentle guidance.

lucyg819
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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:20:12 AM
When I had my grandson for a few months last fall, he was 3.5 and not trained. We did work on it every day but he was resistant. I found a preschool/daycare program that was willing to take him still in pull-ups and they worked with him, too.

I would not have found a program that pressured us to get him out of diapers in a hurry to be conducive to a positive preschool experience. In your situation, I would look for a more relaxed program for him.


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theshyone
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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:24:44 AM
Two weeks before my sons bday he was not trained, wasn't interested, and wouldn't dress himself. By his third birthday, two weeks later he was trained totally could completely dress himself. The change was so dramatic that it was like a switch being flicked.

I too would say its a money issue with the centre. They most likely get more money up to 18 months. So they want the three years out of that room.


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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:37:04 AM
My son is 4.5, has special needs & is developmentally delayed, and not potty trained. I am planning on trying really hard to get him trained this summer. He does NOT want to do it so far, and I'm not going to stress over it.

Most of the daycares & preschools that I know have a similar policy to the one at your son's school. I feel for you. I think 3 is too early to force the issue, especially for boys.

My son is allowed to let slide in Pre-K because he has a diagnosed medical condition. However, my MIL is pretty upset with me that he's not trained.

If it were me, I would call around to see if there's a place where your DS can go that has a more flexible policy. Good luck either way!


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Posted: 2/8/2013 12:37:37 AM
I am in an in-home care center and she potty trains them all at 2. My son was out of diapers at daycare before he turned 2. My husband and I were going through some medical issues at the time so he didn't stop at home until he turned 2 because we just couldn't handle one more thing on our plate.

The scenarios are different as I don't have specific "rooms" that they move in and out of but post just to say that it isn't unreasonable to have the expectation that a 3 year old be potty trained and capable of dressing himself.

Stacy

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Posted: 2/8/2013 3:12:51 AM
I owned a preschool... not a daycare..which accepted children 3 to 5 years old. My rule was totally potty trained by 3, no pull ups either. If a parent did not like it they could have gone somewhere else. Although I never did have an issue with it.

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Posted: 2/8/2013 3:42:26 AM
I'd be looking for new care.

It would bother me that they would think that I should potty train my child before he is ready. And fully dress himself--how? Button up a shirt? Put on and tie shoes? That seems too advanced for a child not yet 3.




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Posted: 2/8/2013 5:08:17 AM

From my point of view, these are THEIR rules, not mine. So it's THEIR problem


Until they remove him and make their rules your problem.

I would have a friendly but firm conversation about their reminders, message received. You need to discern if these reminders are non confrontational code for standards that they will begin to enforce at some time.

His physical size may be an issue or they may be concerned that he will grow bored and fail to receive proper instruction in his current class.



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Posted: 2/8/2013 6:24:44 AM

I've worked with children that age for over 10 years now. From my experience, just turned or turning 3 year old often are not potty trained, especially boys. Since your son is at the high end of his height/weight for his age, he looks older than he is and for that reason, the caregivers might just be "forgetting" he isn't even 3 yet. I am positive they have had many 3 year olds that have not yet been potty trained.


I'm kind of agreeing with this poster. While I know my boy is small, your 3 y/o is just a couple pounds away from my 4th grader. When he is with his friends, he looks like someone's kid brother tagging along.

Maybe since your boy is on the other end of the growth chart, it is creating it's own set of assumptions and worries from parents? It could look like on of the workers has their child in with them. Maybe someone has threatened to remove their kids because "older kids" are in the room. I don't believe in forcing a child to potty train but I can also see some issues they may face.



sugarcoated
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Posted: 2/8/2013 7:58:53 AM
Here's the thing. You need to make sure you are not blurring the lines between "not ready" so you'll be laid back about it and not pushing when most human beings tend to be lazy about something and need to be pushed. If you do not expect your child to potty train, then he won't. It's not like it is, say growing teeth and it just happens naturally. You have to expect it and teach it. It's kinda like homework...sometimes, you have to "make them" to a point, kwim? You can't just say, "oh, if you don't want to, you must not be ready, so okay" and then bitch because the teacher expects the homework to be done.

Since you asked, I don't know of a single un-potty trained 3 yo or a 3 yo who cannot dress themselves. I've only ever heard of letting kids go un-potty trained til they are 4 or 5 here at 2Peas.

I think it is pretty cool that you are listening to other people's opinions on a subject that you brought up without getting all hair flipping about it. Kudos.

renateb
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Posted: 2/8/2013 8:00:18 AM
I completely agree that 3 year old preschoolers in most cases need to be fully potty trained and able to dress themselves. The OP is talking about daycare that he child is currently in and them wanting to put him into a class he is not ready for yet because he is turning 3.

Give it a few more months and he will probably be potty trained and ready for the 3 year old class.


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Posted: 2/8/2013 8:13:11 AM
Just because a daycare or a school require it, does NOT mean it is developmentally appropriate. That being said, those are the guidelines for the school, so you need to do your best to abide by them. Good luck!



mandolyn9909
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PeaNut 183,632
January 2005
Posts: 5,254
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Loc: Ontario, Canada

Posted: 2/8/2013 8:52:52 AM
Both of my boys potty trained later. My oldest son was 3 1/2 when he stopped and we pushed hard to have him trained starting around 2 1/2. My younger son I didn't push at all and low and behold he was trained around 3 1/2 with little to no stress on everyone. It is funny that the no stress way ended up with the same results.

I agree with you that the daycare should back off for sure on both issues really.

Also as far as dressing I am in the same situation as you and don't have a lot of time in the mornings so it is easier to dress my 4yr old. I do have him get dressed on weekends though to keep practicing and I also get him to put his pjs on himself. Also on the weekends I make sure to take him outside two or three times so he can practice getting all his winter stuff on and off without the time constraint. After a month or so of doing this he can totally dress himself except for his coat zipper....which I am okay with for now. Just some suggestions that may help you with your boy.



scrappower
Allons-y Alonso

PeaNut 174,150
October 2004
Posts: 15,334
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Posted: 2/8/2013 8:54:29 AM
The thing is that they have their rules for a reason. You can not like them, but need to follow them or find a new provider. It really is that simple.



callypea
PeaAddict

PeaNut 113,672
October 2003
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Posted: 2/8/2013 8:59:30 AM
My son was about 3 1/2 when he potty trained...and I was a stay at home mom who was working on it all the time! Kids will train when they're ready. Daycare providers should know that. It sounds like your provider is just tired of changing his diaper!


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~*~Amanda~*~
BucketHead

PeaNut 324,935
June 2007
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Loc: I didn't know I was on a Message Board.

Posted: 2/8/2013 9:20:06 AM

Both of my boys potty trained later. My oldest son was 3 1/2 when he stopped and we pushed hard to have him trained starting around 2 1/2. My younger son I didn't push at all and low and behold he was trained around 3 1/2 with little to no stress on everyone. It is funny that the no stress way ended up with the same results.
I had the same experience with my girls except I started trying to potty train my oldest at 18 months. I was determined to have her potty trained early, lol. I let my youngest do it on her own time. They were both 3-1/2 when they were fully potty trained, only a lot less stress and a lot fewer accidents with my youngest.

NewfCathy
PEAce of Cake

PeaNut 268,368
July 2006
Posts: 4,053
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Loc: North of Boston

Posted: 2/8/2013 9:32:25 AM
My ds was a large as well. At 3, he was 39 inches and 43 lbs. He is now over 210 lbs and 6'2".

He didn't train until a few months before he was 4, just in time for preschool. But he hardly ever had an accident after being trained.

Kids train on their own schedule, forcing it can lead to a struggle of wills and toddlers have that in spades!!!

CAthy

lindywholoveskids
Ancient Ancestor of Pea

PeaNut 168,696
September 2004
Posts: 8,306
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Loc: Northern California

Posted: 2/8/2013 10:39:25 AM
I feel that any preschool or daycare that has hard and fast rules about potty training is really not being inclusive.

There are lots of children that simply are not ready to potty train till a certain time.. Forcing it, well, with a 2 year old..that will lead to power struggles.

Why have power struggles over a bodily function?

~Lauren~
Original Pea #1803

PeaNut 246,606
January 2006
Posts: 30,171
Layouts: 16
Loc: right here...even if some don't like it. ;)

Posted: 2/8/2013 10:41:24 AM
They don't have to be inclusive. If the fit isn't right for a child and a particular day care, then the parent needs to find another day care. The day care doesn't have to change.

Why the battle over bodily functions? Because unlike the OP, who is dealing with only one child, the day care must attend to many. A child left daily with much younger children because they are not potty trained creates a problem. Since the problem is one with one child, then that child needs to be the one to change; not the many.





Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian - Henry Ford

frog girl
StuckOnPeas

PeaNut 37,451
May 2002
Posts: 2,536
Layouts: 0
Loc: out of my mind

Posted: 2/8/2013 11:08:26 AM
We don't have our rule at our center-they start encouraging the potty at 2, but will not prevent them from moving into the 3 year old room if they are not fully trained. They start working on the dressing themselves at 2 as well-again if they can't completely do it-no biggie they will keep working with them until they can.

I think it's time to find another center. If he isn't ready to use the potty , then he isn't ready. Some train early, some train late.
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